Knicks working to make a Deal with Denver

TR1LL10N said:

Of course if we can just wait I too advocate that but that is a big IF. Assembling a core of Amare, Melo and Felton is not a gamble and we can lock down those three and fill needs along the way.

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I'm fine with adding Melo. But it's the cost. That is what I'm arguing against. I get the feeling that a lot of Knick fans are desperate to add another super-star. Since we missed out on Lebron, they are willing to give up too much for Melo. I don't feel Melo is worth Gallo + Randolph + Douglas. That is way too much to give. Especially when we have the upper hand in negotiating. It is a stupid move and any GM should be fired for giving up that much under the current circumstances. You're playing into the hands of Denver by agreeing to those terms. Not smart.

LJ4ptplay said:

Melo is a great player. He's just not worth gutting the franchise for. Especially when we can sign him next year for nothing.

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I hear what your saying but unfortunately we don't have the luxury of deciding when to pursue him. He wants out now and we can't just make him become a FA next year.

Sure it would be incredible if we could just wait till next year and not have to give up any important pieces but its not that simple. In your posts you constantly make it seem like we have a choice. Right now there is no next year because he wants out immediately.

MELO IS NOT SIGNING WITH NJ.....unless the bulls include noah.. we have the best deal on the table....

now im hearing stories that the warriors are willing to part with curry for melo without a contract extension.. i hope that happens.. but honestly.. i think its just eye wash... all these scenarios and rumors are so that ny can increase their offer...

i think if we stick to our guns.... we should be fine. but i would trade gallo and randolph for melo in a heartbeat.. but when u start talkin about tdog and chandler. too.. thats goin too far...

LJ4ptplay said:

I'm fine with adding Melo. But it's the cost. That is what I'm arguing against. I get the feeling that a lot of Knick fans are desperate to add another super-star. Since we missed out on Lebron, they are willing to give up too much for Melo. I don't feel Melo is worth Gallo + Randolph + Douglas. That is way too much to give. Especially when we have the upper hand in negotiating. It is a stupid move and any GM should be fired for giving up that much under the current circumstances. You're playing into the hands of Denver by agreeing to those terms. Not smart.

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IMHO, Gallo, AR and TD is worth less than Melo. Neither one of those players have proven they can close out games or carry a team the way Melo has over the years. Melo is a rare player with gifted offensive ability. I just don't understand how you can rate those umproven guys above Melo. TD is essentially a combo guard (plenty of those in the NBA), Gallo right now is a tall 3pt shooter (nothing special about that so far) and AR, who I believe has the most upside may one day will reach all-star status but for now he's just potential.

If Melo was a Knick would you accept Gallo+TD or AR+TD for Melo? I don't think you would.

I think what the Nuggets are asking in return from all interested teams is fair. However, I just hope we can get him for much less (not because that's what he's worth). Melo can tear any team apart.

I think the Knicks are more worried about what Melo might do than they are negotiating with DEN. In other words, they would be willinh to play chicken and wait this out, even prefer waiting to sign Melo next Summer.

BUT, this tactic wont work if Melo decides to sign that extension and stay in DEN are agree to an extension with another team in some trade.

Tough call.

I would prefer to wait and get Melo w/out giving up anything.

I could even understand riskinbg losing Melo, knowing you would then pursue Deron or Paul if necessary.

But, let's be honest. Knicks must get Melo, Paul or Deron by next season otherwise they have practically zero chance winning anything while STAT is here.

Tough call.

BUt I think people don't understand how dynamic we would be with Felton-STAT-Melo. Their presence alone makes guys like Mason-Azubuike-Walker excellent role players, banging down 3s.

Who knows. Could work out either way, and could be complete bust either way.

BUT... i do feel like Walsh is calling DEN's bluff all along. I think Walsh knows Melo will go to 3 teams (Lakers, Bulls, Knicks). Maybe Clippers. I think Walsh has some control here, but ultimately Dolan is pulling the strings- and you know I-Thomas is pushing for a Melo deal?

1st. To be in a position where we as fans are content with our team is appreciated... Thanks Donnie

2nd. That means we're good with or without Melo.

3rd. That means we're no longer a desperate team, driven by fan disapproval and failure who is primed for rapage.

4th. That means the ball (and control) is in Melo's court. If Melo really wants to be a Knick... we all know he can (just like Bron). If not we're cool. Denver can accept our offer or lose him for nothing. No team will mortgage their future for a rental.

By refusing to sign an extension with another team except the Knicks, Melo can dictate his future.. just a matter of time.

Either sooner or later they will break and we will capitalize.

Thanks again Donnie! Either way... we win.

Oldtimer

I agree with Red and LJ4PtPlay. I do not want to give up either Gallo or Randolph and certainly not both. So lets be patient.

if we were to trade for Melo this year with his extended contract, we will have used up two-thirds of our cap and if we give up Gallo, Randolph and Douglas or Chandler, we will have eliminated some potentially very solid players who are easy on cap space. We are likely to have a late first round pick next year and no pick in 2012. How are we going to fill up a decent roster with such limited cap space? Things are likely to get harder under a new CBA.

Melo is in the Nuggets camp and has apparently said all the right things. He does not appear to be in a hurry, at least on the surface. If he really wants New York, he can get it by waiting. Melo and Amar'e with Randolph, Gallo, Mozgov, Chandler, Douglas and Felton would really be a great team.

Hang in there Melo. i can wait until next year and in the meantime watch our young team develop.

LJ4ptplay said:

That is the dumbest move and any GM that does it should be fired.

You guys need to learn some new negotiating tactics. The Nets are not giving up Lopez. The Bulls are not giving up Noah.

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and we not giving up amare so whats your point? we are giving up unproved players for a star in mello.

Damn, the majority of y'all sound like me back when I was vehemently arguing the Knicks should trade for Paul. Knuckles strongly opposed me. Boy have you done a 180, lol.

Now I'm on the otherside arguing for patience. Why is this you ask? Because I was drunken by the possibility of getting a star player I really like. It's sad. If there was a strong possibility of getting Paul now I'd prolly still be fighting tooth and nail w some of y'all.

I give you credit LJ4ptplay. You've been consistent.

I still think Paul is better than Melo. I still would want him on my team more than Melo. And i'd prolly let both Gallo and Randolph go to get him.

It's smarter to wait tho.

But only if you can almost guarantee the player will come.

W Melo we all know he really wants to be here. Let him wait. Let our players develop. It really is more rational. I can't deny this anymore.

I would make a shitty GM.

Nope, I wouldn't trade both guys for Paul because I'm not convinced that you need a HOF caliber PG to win. A 6'8'' all around "you can't guard me" SF? Sure.

And you haven't seen me once say that Gallo or Randolph absolutely will not meet their potential, I'm saying that it's less of a risk taking Melo when you have no assurances that either player will pan out the way we want them to.

I'll be equally as happy if we can keep both players and get Melo, but you don't let the opportunity to grab a player at his position, with his skill set, of his caliber, pass you by. A PG? Not so much.

You're of the mindset that your ability to judge talent trumps that of all of the various scouts that say Randolph should develop into a monster if he can stay healthy and pack some muscle onto his frame...why exactly? I dunno. But I value their assessment of him higher than I do of some random dude online.

I'm of the mindset that neither player is a sure thing due to their age and lack of a large enough sample size in the NBA to see exactly what you have. I'll trade potential for proven if it's worth it. And like you've seen over the past decade+, you don't need a HOF caliber PG to win...bigs and wingmen are a diff story.

It doesn't really matter what the caliber of the player is if his position has been devalued in the current state of the game. If a serviceable PG is good enough to win as long as he has the right grouping of talent around him of the right caliber, you follow that model as closely and effectively as possible to build your team. If Nash and Amar'e wasn't good enough when Nash was winning MVP's then I'll go more for the Amar'e/Melo formula.

I don't want it to seem like I don't like our current squad tho. I gladly welcome Melo to wait a year and join as a FA next summer. But if it comes down to us being able to get him for Gallo and AR, or he gets traded to another team he's willing to sign for, I say go get him.

But either way, gonna be good times at the Garden (already got people that didn't want to get season tix earlier now trying to buy the tickets off of me for big games.)

So no matter what, we're good.

You and I will again have to agree to disagree on the whole great PG versus great scoring wing player debate.

You know where I stand. I feel Paul is too good of PG to pass up. You obviously feel Melo is too good to pass up. Nothing new here.

What I'm commenting on is your dramatic reversal. I, like LJ4ptplay, was surprised to see it too. What happened to your thoughts on how it would be sooooooo unstoppable to have three players over 6'10'' w differing skill sets???? "How do you stop it!?!", were your words if I remember correctly, lol..

I could start throwing out your posts, but that would just be over the top, no need. It's just interesting to see things play out I guess. You a funny dude Knuck.

Oh, and those same people you tout have been wrong about so many players. You keep deferring to them. It's obvious you have no confidence in your own ability to assess what you see with your own two eyes. Whatevs, we'll see if the random dude is right.... eace:

Does this argument sound familiar?

I'm surprised that the (Denver Nuggets) would give up (Carmello Anthony). He's a great acquisition for the New York Knicks. This trade immediately benefits the Knicks. I have a high regard for (Anthony) -- he's a tremendous talent. I believe Anthony is the second-best (swingman) in the NBA.
With this deal, it appears (Denver) is throwing in the towel on this season. Can the Nuggets do something profitable with the two first-round draft picks from the Knicks? Only time will tell.



But the Knicks are much better prepared now for a potential playoff run. To earn a playoff spot in the East, I expect that a team will need at least a .500 record...



Clearly, new president/GM (Donnie Walsh) is going to work in New York. (Anthony) and (Stoudemire) should be a great...combination. Anthony will give the Knicks a shot in the arm. He can create his own shots and create opportunities for teammates.


(Danillo Gallinari) who goes to the (Nuggets), is playing better after missing (a) season with a (back) injury. And the Nuggets can get by with (Wilson Chandler) and (Anthony Randolph) (the other two Knicks in the deal) at (the 3). But neither is (Carmello Anthony), to be sure.

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Sounds like some people on this board re: Carmello...right?


The above excerpt was pulled from Dr. Jack Ramsey's analysis of the Stephon Marbury trade in 2004. I changed the names to match our current state, and the trade as it would appear.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1700818

Damn KBlack, pure friggin gold right there.:thumbsup:

if we give Randolph, Gallo, and Douglas is DO NOT APPROVE OF A MELO DEAL

Wait kblack, Are you really comparing Stephon Marbury to Carmelo Anthony

XxWinKnicksxX said:

Wait kblack, Are you really comparing Stephon Marbury to Carmelo Anthony

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I'm comparing the people who sat there and said draft picks were expendable for "proven stars" when we traded for Steph to those who say draft picks and young talent is expendable for "proven stars".

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I'm fine with giving up Gallo OR AR with a couple 2nd rounders, but not both.

I agree with that logic, but this is Carmelo Anthony IMO and both those guys are not proven elite superstars that can take there team to the playoffs every year single handedly.

KBlack25 said:

Does this argument sound familiar?



Sounds like some people on this board re: Carmello...right?


The above excerpt was pulled from Dr. Jack Ramsey's analysis of the Stephon Marbury trade in 2004. I changed the names to match our current state, and the trade as it would appear.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1700818

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Two things...

1. Melo is better than Marbury and would be comming to a team capable of competing.

2. The acquisition of Marbury did actually lead to a playoff birth. (a quick one)

So while this was a cute post the comparisons are ceretainly flawed. Melo is the real deal and paired along side Amare and Felton def. makes us a contender.

TR1LL10N said:

Two things...

1. Melo is better than Marbury and would be comming to a team capable of competing.

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According to the article written then, Steph was considered the 2nd best PG in the league at the time. And we were a team capable of competing when Steph got to us. And we gave up two draft picks for him.

TRILLION said:

2. The acquisition of Marbury did actually lead to a playoff birth. (a quick one)

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If you find the Stephon Marbury trade a success because of one horrible playoff series then I feel bad for you.

TRILLION said:

So while this was a cute post the comparisons are ceretainly flawed. Melo is the real deal and paired along side Amare and Felton def. makes us a contender.

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Again, that's what Dr. Jack Ramsey said, almost to a T, about Stephon being paired with Houston.

The point is - everyone against trading prospects says we are just trading the "unknown". They said the same thing when we traded for Steph. Oh we will be good when those draft picks come up because we are going to be an amazing team".

They said the same thing when we traded for Curry. "Oh we will be good when those draft picks come up because we are going to be an amazing team".


Sorry, but a team of Felton-Carmello-STAT and nobody else loses to Wade-LeBron-Bosh more often than it wins. If Gallo lives up to potential, and AR lives up to potential, AND we have $11 million off the books...we just became an 8 or 9 seed that lost no talent and gained a ton of cap room. Again, I am for getting Carmello but I want to keep SOME of the GOOD young talent we have...