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Thread: Knicks working to make a Deal with Denver

  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by knicksin60
    Remember when Donnie Walsh and many people didn't want to trade Wilson Chandler for the number 6 pick of the '08 draft because they thought Chandler was a valuable player with tremendous potential? But after Chandler proved how mediocre he really was people were crying because the Knicks missed out on a chance at Ricky Rubio.

    I wonder how Knick fans would feel if Gallo ends up becoming a poor man's Andrea Bargnani and Anthony Randolph ends up becoming another Channing Frye.At least with Melo we already know what we're getting from him.

    The Knicks could very well have two top 10 players on their roster, but Knick fans would rather have 2 unproven players who could end up being role players for the rest of their careers? Is it only Knick fans who would favor a lineup which has Amar'e, Randolph and Gallo over a lineup which has Amar'e, Melo, and a decent PG? I'm sure the majority of fans of other teams would choose Amar'e and Melo over anything the Knicks have right now.
    Well said.

    **** Rubio, we could've had STEPHEN CURRY! Imagine if we had him...damned Nellie...

    That being said you have a point. Isiah evaluated talent reasonably well and even he thought that Channing Frye was really gonna be a star, turns out now he's a decent player but nothing really amazing. I remember reading somewhere that Isiah said he'd take Frye over Chris Paul if he had the chance to do so...

    Gallo and Randolph might be good but who the hell knows? Even if they both turn out to be all-stars odds are neither of them is going to be as good as Carmelo, who's essentially the best scorer in the NBA at the present moment...you don't pass up talent like that. Ever. It's the same reason the Yankees dumped Austin Jackson for Curtis Granderson, and the same reason it was worth it to dump Soriano for Rodriguez (Soriano we thought would end up being amazing if he just learned some plate patience but as we all know that never happened).

  2. #32
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    Well said.

    **** Rubio, we could've had STEPHEN CURRY! Imagine if we had him...damned Nellie...

    That being said you have a point. Isiah evaluated talent reasonably well and even he thought that Channing Frye was really gonna be a star, turns out now he's a decent player but nothing really amazing. I remember reading somewhere that Isiah said he'd take Frye over Chris Paul if he had the chance to do so...

    Gallo and Randolph might be good but who the hell knows? Even if they both turn out to be all-stars odds are neither of them is going to be as good as Carmelo, who's essentially the best scorer in the NBA at the present moment...you don't pass up talent like that. Ever. It's the same reason the Yankees dumped Austin Jackson for Curtis Granderson, and the same reason it was worth it to dump Soriano for Rodriguez (Soriano we thought would end up being amazing if he just learned some plate patience but as we all know that never happened).
    Main reason why I've come over to the side who's willing to part with both for Melo. We've had over half a decade to see what kind of monster Carmelo Anthony is on the court, you don't hear the word potential bandied about with him...because he's already proven what he can do. Randolph and Gallo, while I have high hopes for both, are being judged on potential right now and like Parcells said: "Potential just means you haven't done anything yet" and "You lose with potential. You win with performance."

    Unless someone has hopped in their handy dandy time machine and went a couple of years into the future and has conclusive evidence that Randolph and Gallo ever meet their extremely high potential...you take the best pure scorer in the NBA entering his prime. You almost have to. Unless you have that conclusive evidence from 2013 showing Gallo and Randolph playing at an All-NBA level.

  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by wnyknicksfan
    i read this trade idea i kind of like it but you can decide

    Mega trade: 3 teams, 13 players, 0 draft picks

    Rockets get from New York: Anthony Randolph
    Rockets get from Denver: Ty Lawson

    Knicks get from Denver: Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups and Arron Affalo

    Nuggets get from Houston: Aaron Brooks and Jordan Hill
    Nuggets get from New York: Danilo Gallanari, Wilson Chandler, Kelenna Azubuike, Ronny Turiaf, Toney Douglas and Eddy Curry

    then sign chris hunter and barron at vet minnimums

    felton mason rautins
    billups affalo fields
    mello walker williams
    SO you want to give up a Backup pg who had a great season for his 1st year, 1 developing sf (gallA), a pf/c (AR), a slashing g/f (Wilson), and a defensive minded c/f (Turiaf), for billups while is good still but is going down hill, Affalo who is decent but no defender, and Melo yes he puts up numbers is not a good defender! Yes these guys can play Dantonio's offense but His mind lacks Defense all day!

    I'm a Knicks fan living in GA, and yeah i like Melo to come but not at the price of giving up several fresh leg players that i can have in the game if one gets hurt or is slumping!

    If Melo goes down for lets say 30 games who will you have plug up in his spot a bench player getting 5mins before he arrived?

  4. #34
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    So now we don't make a move because it doesn't wave a magic NBA wand and have us be contenders?

    Make the move because it's better for us to BECOME contenders; specifically, in the shortest time period, with the least amount of risk.

    At the very least, this is the question that needs to be asked, whether I'm wrong or right on wanting to pull the trigger.

    The fact that even skeptics say we would likely be vaulted up a couple spots speaks volumes.

    We'd have two bonefied (super)stars who WANT to be here and dominate in NY. In the middle of their primes.

    And the influence this would have on other FA's (CP3, whomever)...we could finally milk the fact that we have the best place to play and ball it up.

    I won't cry if we keep Gallo-AR. I love them as players to have. I just love the legitimacy, dominance, and LIKLIHOOD of building a contender asap that Melo would bring, even if we sacrifice them in process.

  5. #35
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    A team of Felton, Chandler, Melo, Amare, Moz with Mason, Turiaf, Walker off the bench is not a contender. There is little to no depth with that roster because we dumped all of our depth for one player that can only score and can't play defense worth a pinch of sh*t.

    Yes, that TEAM is not better than Miami, Orlando, Lakers, or Chicago.

    So I'll ask again. Why bother? What is the point?

    Can someone logically explain to me why gutting the team to move up a few spots is worth it?

    Especially when we can sign him for free next year and be championship contenders. I guess everybody just wants gratification now and continue to lose for the next 5 years. I would rather wait and build a contender. If we trade for Melo now, we won't have the cap space to sign CP3. So forget the idea of Melo bringing other stars here. It is impossible.

  6. #36
    Veteran knicksin60's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    Well said.

    **** Rubio, we could've had STEPHEN CURRY! Imagine if we had him...damned Nellie...

    That being said you have a point. Isiah evaluated talent reasonably well and even he thought that Channing Frye was really gonna be a star, turns out now he's a decent player but nothing really amazing. I remember reading somewhere that Isiah said he'd take Frye over Chris Paul if he had the chance to do so...

    Gallo and Randolph might be good but who the hell knows? Even if they both turn out to be all-stars odds are neither of them is going to be as good as Carmelo, who's essentially the best scorer in the NBA at the present moment...you don't pass up talent like that. Ever. It's the same reason the Yankees dumped Austin Jackson for Curtis Granderson, and the same reason it was worth it to dump Soriano for Rodriguez (Soriano we thought would end up being amazing if he just learned some plate patience but as we all know that never happened).
    Nothing against Knick fans who are opposed to giving up Gallo and Randolph for Melo but I'm just glad that they don't run the Knicks.Could you imagine where the Celtics would have been the last 3 years had they held on to Al Jefferson instead of pursuing KG? Or what the Lakers would have done the last 2 years had they not traded for Gasol?

    Every successful sports executive has taken risks to get to the position in which they're at.The idea of taking risks is something that frightens a lot of fans because they believe that the failure of young and up and coming players turning into busts is a lesser tragedy than watching their team fall short of greatness after giving up talent to do so.

    But like I've been saying this whole time, Carmelo Anthony is a player that is a proven winner and someone who makes his team better.Gallo and Randolph have yet to prove they can carry a team to the playoffs, have yet to prove they can put up all-star numbers every year and have yet to prove they can compete against other teams' top talent on a nightly basis.If Gallo and Randolph are so valuable to a team why aren't team executives fighting each other for the opportunity to acquire them? If mostly every player on the Knicks is a piece of a winning team, why would the Portland Trailblazers rather have a college player over Wilson Chandler?

    I think that a lot of Knick fans like to do everything they can to overrate their players since the Knicks haven't had a top 10 player on their roster since Patrick Ewing...

    For example:Toney Douglas has a couple of high scoring 4th quarters and Knick fans are ready to crown him the Knicks starting PG for the next 5 years.

    2nd example:Michael Sweetney gets 18 rebounds in the 1st quarter of a game and some Knick fans look at him as a draft steal.

    3rd example:Jamal Crawford puts up 50 points in a game and many Knick fans give him the honor of being Allan Houston's successor.

    Players like Carmelo Anthony are not available every couple years and for Donnie Walsh to pass at the opportunity of acquiring him would be the dumbest move of his 23 year career as an NBA general manager.Could you imagine Walsh refusing to trade for Melo and it leading to the Nets getting him and becoming a better team than the Knicks? Such a scenario would look absolutely foolish on Walsh and the Knicks' part.And this would lead to Walsh's long term plan becoming a complete failure.That's why the Knick fans, who viewed a Melo 2011 free agent signing as Walsh's plan B before Lebron James' absurd decision but who are now opposing a trade for him, should acknowledge the fact that there might be a greater reward for the Knicks if they take the risk of giving up Gallo and Randolph for Melo.The Knicks won't instantly become the best team in the Eastern Conference if they receive Melo but would take a giant step in the right direction.Melo and Stoudemire have more than 5 years left of their prime.Does anyone really believe that the Knicks will have an incomplete roster with just those two players leading the way for 5 entire seasons? Walsh will probably do whatever he can to fill that roster up with better role players in the next couple years.You have to bring the main furniture inside the house before you bring in the other accessories.You build around superstars not build a team so a superstar could later join it.
    Last edited by knicksin60; Sep 26, 2010 at 19:23.

  7. #37
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    Because we're not a championship contender now? So what diff does it make? We'd be trading potential for proven. It's a gamble either way really. If our young players don't meet their potential and we don't make the move for Melo then everyone involved in not making the move will be second guessing themselves for a while.

    Just ask Pistons fans how they feel about that #2 pick when they selected Darko over everyone else that was available, or the Trailblazers fans when they passed on Durant for Oden. Hindsight is 20/20, but that's not a saying I want to hear when it comes to this Melo situation.

    We have draft picks next year and in 2013, and we're going to have cap flexibility going forward (especially if we let Felton go to get an upgrade at the PG if need be.)

    The whole argument of "we're not going to be contenders if we trade for Melo" bears the most weight if we're contenders now and if making a move jeopardizes that. Since that's not the case, what's wrong with building around Melo and STAT at the helm instead of just STAT? Because right now Gallo and Randolph are potentially good. Melo is currently Melo, he's not maybe, possibly, if he works hard and wants it enough, going to be Melo. He is what he is.

    We could build with him and STAT. That's why you make the move.

    Edit: Knicksin actually raises another point that I could have made. What if the Celtics hold onto Al and don't make the move for KG? No, Melo isn't exactly of a KG stature right now, but add him to STAT, Felton, Mosgov, etc. and we have a solid squad going forward.

    I love Gallo and want to see what AR can do as much as the next person....but come on...

  8. #38
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    Our cap situation will be different by the time we can/would sign other stars. Specifically, when Felton expires, which coincides with the superstar PG FA crop.

    And cap is cap, anyways. Gotta spend it at some point, and giving Melo a max like deal, especially relative to the types of contracts going around, is a great investment in and of itself.

    Whiffing on Melo and we set ourselves up even worse for potential FA's if anything. Again, another gamble on our youth blossoming in concert, or we get treated like 2nd class citizens of the NBA like we have for so long.

    Melo gives us instant credibility and vaults us officially past....our past.

    I'd rather not hope and pray that youth becomes excellence.

    When we have an alternative.

    The logic is:

    We have a better chance of being a contender. This means, we achieve it sooner, and MOST important, we are able to achieve it with the highest chance/least risk.

    A proven superstar in his prime, who wants NYC, and you can lock up.

    Nobody can honestly believe that they safer in the future of being legit with what we have, then a simple, brutally well built core of MELO+STAT+2yr Felton (and still youth like Moz, Jordan, Walker, even Chandler).

    Era of the dynasty/superstar is officially here. Lock them up and secure them when you can, especially one in his prime, wants to be a Knick.

    What's the other logic?

    Hope and pray for a lot of youth to grow up, battle past their potentially crippling weaknesses, and be the stars they have the ability to be. Not the worst, but is it the best? IMHO, no.

    All while hoping this happens quick enough and in the perfect time frame to lure a different superstar.

  9. #39
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    I would like Melo here. I just don't like gutting the team to get him when we can get him for nothing next year. If we wait a year, we're championship contenders. If we don't wait, we're perennial 2nd round exits in the playoffs. Seems simple to me. I would rather be a contender.

    Also, allowing Felton to expire gives us $7 mil in cap space. Can somebody explain how $7 mil can get us CP3? You all need to forget the idea of a big 3 in NY. It is financially impossible. Just give it up.

  10. #40
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    Default Be like Miami

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    I would like Melo here. I just don't like gutting the team to get him when we can get him for nothing next year. If we wait a year, we're championship contenders. If we don't wait, we're perennial 2nd round exits in the playoffs. Seems simple to me. I would rather be a contender.

    Also, allowing Felton to expire gives us $7 mil in cap space. Can somebody explain how $7 mil can get us CP3? You all need to forget the idea of a big 3 in NY. It is financially impossible. Just give it up.

    Follow Pat Rileys blue print get your stars to take less witch they will make up with endorsement by winning more especially in the big apple. The number 1 media market in country. Just look at miami they tore it down and rebuilt it from the bottom up with vets willing to take less to win a championship. In the words of Pat Riley all in or nothing.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Forget that! Randolph, Gallo and Douglas. No thanks. That would be terrible.
    The discussion include those three names. It isn't saying that the trade package includes all three, just that both teams are mentioning those three players.

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    Originally Posted by shaolin
    The discussion include those three names. It isn't saying that the trade package includes all three, just that both teams are mentioning those three players.

    Id do it in a heart beat for those 3 scrubs

  13. #43
    is the Bo$$ Toons's Avatar
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    I would like this deal. bye bye gallo&randolph lol.

    felton
    chandler
    melo
    amare
    mozgov

    look what melo did with the nuggets. imagine us! and we still have curry's contrct. i would rather this trade tho

    chandler, gallo, douglas, curry for melo

    gallo will never develop as a bench player after melo, so he must go, its best for his career. chandler will bring defense to denver.

    id keep AR if i was donnie....even if its only to get his trade value up.

  14. #44
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Miami-Heat
    Follow Pat Rileys blue print get your stars to take less witch they will make up with endorsement by winning more especially in the big apple. The number 1 media market in country. Just look at miami they tore it down and rebuilt it from the bottom up with vets willing to take less to win a championship. In the words of Pat Riley all in or nothing.
    Miami had all 3 players agreeing to take less than the max all at once in order to play together. Amare already has the max. Melo's extension and trade is the max. So, like I said, it is financially impossible to get another max star.

    This is about Melo getting his money. Not about Melo wanting to win a championship. If he wanted to win a championship, he would wait. But he is more worried about losing millions of dollars with the new CBA.

    I have more respect for the big 3 in Miami. They all took less to play together. Melo is forcing teams to trade their future so he can get his money and play where he wants (or where his wife wants). No thanks. Sign him next year or forget it. He's not worth it.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Sep 26, 2010 at 23:30.

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    Originally Posted by Toons
    I would like this deal. bye bye gallo&randolph lol.

    felton
    chandler
    melo
    amare
    mozgov

    look what melo did with the nuggets. imagine us! and we still have curry's contrct. i would rather this trade tho

    chandler, gallo, douglas, curry for melo

    gallo will never develop as a bench player after melo, so he must go, its best for his career. chandler will bring defense to denver.

    id keep AR if i was donnie....even if its only to get his trade value up.
    No, we would have to include Curry's contract to make the numbers work.

    Gallo + Randolph + Douglas + Curry for Melo. That's what it would take.

    Melo is not that good. No thanks.

    Donnie should be fired if he agrees to that deal. Denver needs to make the trade. Melo needs to make the trade. We don't.

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