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Thread: Knicks working to make a Deal with Denver

  1. #106
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    And what does it say about a guys leadership when he wants/begs/pleads to get off of his own team, a team he was drafted to be the leader of?
    So a player is not a leader unless he stays with the team that drafted him for his entire career? Fact is, he poured his heart and soul into that franchise every year and was a leader of Team USA as well.


    To me, Felton is as unproven as any of the other guys. He looked good in some games but it's not like this guy is a superstar. And he certainly ain't Wade or LeBron, and he ain't Allen when the Celtics got him.
    This is not true, Felton is a proven starter on a playoff team. His stats are right in line for Brown's sluggish offense. Comparing him to Gallo or AR is dishonest. Further I never said he was a star but he is a solid PG and should thrive in our system. (plus his contract is short and reasonable)



    Again, you misunderstand what I am trying to say. I am not saying that Curry or Steph are as good as Melo. It's the logic that is flawed. Tell me when it stops with the trading draft picks and trading young talent. How many teams have been successful gutting their teams for "bonafide" stars? The Celtics drafted Rajon Rondo. The Lakers drafted Andrew Bynum. The Spurs built their entire team through good drafting and player development. So did the Thunder. Yes, a key trade or two was needed, but the fact is we are ultimately still rebuilding, whether you like it or not. We need to keep young talent on the roster, let them develop together, lets see what we have. We could get jumpy, and gut our entire team like the Nets were willing to do. Or we can bide our time and actually watch our players play even ONE GAME together so we can see what we have.
    Well that's the whole point...those players we traded for were not that good and did not fit into the roster. Further we did not have any superstars on the roster to play along with those acquisitions. There is more than one way to build a championship roster but unfortunatley for the KNicks the draft has not been so kind. Boston may have had Rondo and Pierce but they needed to bring in Allen and KG to win a title. The Heat brought in Lebron and Bosh and most likely will win as well.

    And yes, while it has been stated before I must reiterate that if we are good our future first rounder will be in the 20's hardly worth crying about. The reason the previous trades were extra bad is because they did not make us any better so we ended losing out on lottery picks. There is absolutely no way (except injury) that a core or Amare and Melo won't be winning 50+ for many many years so a 2014 will be something like the 24th pick.

    You advocate letting them develop but ignore that we have a superstar in his prime right now and could potentially pair him with another superstar in his prime. Do you really see either Gallo or AR becoming on par or better than Melo? Really? I don't so the only hope is they both become all-star caliber and compliment one another but again that is a big IF.

    The fact is, people want to say we have this, we don't have that, potential is nada. That, to me, is beyond idiotic. We have been down the path of trading prospect for proven. Just because Carmello is "more proven" does not make trading MORE prospects than we ever traded before LESS idiotic.
    Potential is great when you have no other options. Proven talent is always better! Melo is more than "more proven" he is elite and that's a fact. AR has never even played a game in a Knicks uniform and we obtained him for free since Lee was gone anyway. (check my post history because I have been calling for AR since he was drafted) That said I will not shed a tear if his departure gives us Melo. Gallo is indeed a great prospect but he has played in 1.5 seasons and has a back issue that can always come back. I like Gallo a lot but I don't ever see him getting to the Melo level.

    Yes, it is an IF. But Melo is also an IF...just because he had success one place does not mean he has success here. Many ELITE players have come to NY and have failed in every single sport.
    Sure, any player has the potential to be a bust but the likelihood that Melo comes to NYC and sucks is very slim. His likelihood of coming here and being great is way higher than both AR and Gallo becoming elite and that is the real crux of it. I'll gamble on Melo over AR and Gallo any day!

  2. #107
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    We will have to agree to disagree as to whether Carmello is proven as an elite player then. He is a phenomenal scorer, but has lead his team to one conference championship and 0 finals. Do you really think a lineup of Felton-Walker-Carmello-Amare-Mozgov with a bench of basically Azubuke and Turiaf and Roger Mason (assuming we lose Gallo, Randolph, Douglas and Chandler) is anything more than a 6 seed? That team couldn't stop a nosebleed on the defensive end.

    Originally Posted by TRILLION
    And yes, while it has been stated before I must reiterate that if we are good our future first rounder will be in the 20's hardly worth crying about. The reason the previous trades were extra bad is because they did not make us any better so we ended losing out on lottery picks. There is absolutely no way (except injury) that a core or Amare and Melo won't be winning 50+ for many many years so a 2014 will be something like the 24th pick.
    And Amare is a guy who has had knee trouble in the past...There is "absolutely no way (except injury)"? That means there IS a way, a way that is very real and very possible when one of the guys you are counting on to be healthy has had knee problems, an injury that recurs fairly frequently.

    The argument is flawed because while you sit there and say "Well Anthony and Amare would definitely win 50+ games" there is no such guarantee and no way that you could know that definitely. You are spouting hyperbole like it is going out of style. When we got Marbury, again, much of the analysis was that we gave up two picks that wouldn't matter so much because we would be better with Marbury. We would have an elite back-court that would run teams to death, blah blah blah. It's all the same argument.

    With Anthony, yes the reward is greater. But the risk is much more deadly. We put all our eggs in the Carmello basket and IF he fails not only will we have missed out on 2-3 of our prospects, we probably will miss out on additional draft picks IF we give everything that Denver wants. You want to roll the dice with one player. It may seem to be (and probably is) a surer bet than the Stephon Marbury roulette wheel. And we may hit the jackpot. But one turned ankle, one misstep by Amare or Carmello and we will be adding a trade that sent away all the young talent and draft picks we had to the list with the Eddy Curry and Stephon Marbury disasters.

    I agree that the reward is great, if Carmello is everything you think he would be in New York. Then again, if Marbury was everything fans had hoped he would be that trade would've worked out fairly well also. It's not about whether Carmello is elite, or even if he is as good as Marbury...it's about diversifying your risk, economics 101.

  3. #108
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    We will have to agree to disagree as to whether Carmello is proven as an elite player then. He is a phenomenal scorer, but has lead his team to one conference championship and 0 finals. Do you really think a lineup of Felton-Walker-Carmello-Amare-Mozgov with a bench of basically Azubuke and Turiaf and Roger Mason (assuming we lose Gallo, Randolph, Douglas and Chandler) is anything more than a 6 seed? That team couldn't stop a nosebleed on the defensive end.
    I honestly think we would be a 3 or 4 seed. That team is better than Chicago IMHO and Boston is aging. Further we will add players along the way...maybe 6th seed this year, 3rd next and a chip the year after. Who really knows as that is speculation just like Gallo or AR reaching anything resembling an all-star.

    And Amare is a guy who has had knee trouble in the past...There is "absolutely no way (except injury)"? That means there IS a way, a way that is very real and very possible when one of the guys you are counting on to be healthy has had knee problems, an injury that recurs fairly frequently.
    Amare is a constant so we would still be better off with Melo IMO. Yes we might lose a draft pick but I think that risk is worth it. Amare has been fine for years now and seems as explosive as ever. Further that would fly directly in the face of your willingness to gamble on Gallo and his back...no?


    The argument is flawed because while you sit there and say "Well Anthony and Amare would definitely win 50+ games" there is no such guarantee and no way that you could know that definitely. You are spouting hyperbole like it is going out of style. When we got Marbury, again, much of the analysis was that we gave up two picks that wouldn't matter so much because we would be better with Marbury. We would have an elite back-court that would run teams to death, blah blah blah. It's all the same argument.
    Again you bring up a player that is 3/4's the player Melo is and was known to be a cancer in the lockeroom. Guees what, all the worries about Marbury came true! What is Melo's downside? What are the concerns? Nothing! You just rather gamble our future on unproven players and that is fine. Like I said, I am on the fence about this and like our position either way. I just think Melo + Amare is as good a 1/2 punch the Knicks will see. That would be the best 1/2 punch I have seen on the Knicks since I am alive. Those two with the right role players are title contenders...period! Call it hyperbole...I call it assesing talent and making a prediction. Yes, anything could happen, injury, crack addiction or a freaking alien abduction but going off of the norm those two would be deadly for many years in NYC.

    With Anthony, yes the reward is greater. But the risk is much more deadly. We put all our eggs in the Carmello basket and IF he fails not only will we have missed out on 2-3 of our prospects, we probably will miss out on additional draft picks IF we give everything that Denver wants. You want to roll the dice with one player. It may seem to be (and probably is) a surer bet than the Stephon Marbury roulette wheel. And we may hit the jackpot. But one turned ankle, one misstep by Amare or Carmello and we will be adding a trade that sent away all the young talent and draft picks we had to the list with the Eddy Curry and Stephon Marbury disasters.
    Dude, Melo is a known quantity...there is no gamble. Yes, put our eggs in the Melo/Amare basket and watch the years of fun! The only gamble is hoping that Gallo turns into Dirk and AR becomes Lamar Odom. Sure if that happens we possibly are a better team with a late 1st rounder. ARe you confident that it will happen? I am not! What I am confident about is what I have seen from Melo since he joined the league.

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align="right">AST</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">STL</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">BLK</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TOV</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PF</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PTS</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">82</td> <td align="right">82</td> <td align="right">2995</td> <td align="right">624</td> <td align="right">1465</td> <td align="right">.426</td> <td align="right">69</td> <td align="right">214</td> <td align="right">.322</td> <td align="right">408</td> <td align="right">525</td> <td align="right">.777</td> <td align="right">183</td> <td align="right">315</td> <td align="right">498</td> <td align="right">227</td> <td 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style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">80</td> <td align="right">80</td> <td align="right">2941</td> <td align="right">756</td> <td align="right">1572</td> <td align="right">.481</td> <td align="right">37</td> <td align="right">152</td> <td align="right">.243</td> <td align="right">573</td> <td align="right">709</td> <td align="right">.808</td> <td align="right">122</td> <td align="right">272</td> <td align="right">394</td> <td align="right">216</td> <td align="right">88</td> <td align="right">42</td> <td align="right">218</td> <td align="right">229</td> <td align="right">2122</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">22</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">65</td> <td align="right">65</td> <td align="right">2486</td> <td align="right">691</td> <td align="right">1453</td> <td align="right">.476</td> <td align="right">40</td> <td align="right">149</td> <td align="right">.268</td> <td align="right">459</td> <td align="right">568</td> <td align="right">.808</td> <td align="right">143</td> <td align="right">248</td> <td align="right">391</td> <td align="right">249</td> <td align="right">77</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">234</td> <td align="right">203</td> <td align="right">1881</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">77</td> <td align="right">77</td> <td align="right">2806</td> <td align="right">728</td> <td align="right">1481</td> <td align="right">.492</td> <td align="right">58</td> <td align="right">164</td> <td align="right">.354</td> <td align="right">464</td> <td align="right">590</td> <td align="right">.786</td> <td align="right">178</td> <td align="right">393</td> <td align="right">571</td> <td align="right">259</td> <td align="right">98</td> <td align="right">39</td> <td align="right">253</td> <td align="right">253</td> <td align="right">1978</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">66</td> <td align="right">66</td> <td align="right">2277</td> <td align="right">535</td> <td align="right">1207</td> <td align="right">.443</td> <td align="right">63</td> <td align="right">170</td> <td align="right">.371</td> <td align="right">371</td> <td align="right">468</td> <td align="right">.793</td> <td align="right">106</td> <td align="right">344</td> <td align="right">450</td> <td align="right">222</td> <td align="right">75</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="right">199</td> <td align="right">195</td> <td align="right">1504</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">69</td> <td align="right">69</td> <td align="right">2634</td> <td align="right">688</td> <td align="right">1502</td> <td align="right">.458</td> <td align="right">59</td> <td align="right">187</td> <td align="right">.316</td> <td 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    </td> <td align="left">
    </td> <td align="left">NBA</td> <td align="right">514</td> <td align="right">514</td> <td align="right">18747</td> <td align="right">4552</td> <td align="right">9910</td> <td align="right">.459</td> <td align="right">368</td> <td align="right">1194</td> <td align="right">.308</td> <td align="right">3239</td> <td align="right">4045</td> <td align="right">.801</td> <td align="right">1025</td> <td align="right">2159</td> <td align="right">3184</td> <td align="right">1589</td> <td align="right">591</td> <td align="right">229</td> <td align="right">1584</td> <td align="right">1559</td> <td align="right">12711</td> </tr> </tfoot> </table>
    Per Game

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ▪ CSV ▪ PRE ▪ <form name="pages" action=""> <select> <option value="" disabled="disabled" selected="selected">Game Logs </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2004/">2003-04 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2005/">2004-05 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2006/">2005-06 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2007/">2006-07 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2008/">2007-08 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2009/">2008-09 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2010/">2009-10 </option></select> </form> ▪ <form name="pages" action=""> <select> <option value="" disabled="disabled" selected="selected">Splits </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2004/">2003-04 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2005/">2004-05 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2006/">2005-06 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2007/">2006-07 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2008/">2007-08 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2009/">2008-09 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2010/">2009-10 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/">Career </option></select> </form> ▪ [Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

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</tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">80</td> <td align="right">80</td> <td align="right">36.8</td> <td align="right">9.5</td> <td align="right">19.7</td> <td align="right">.481</td> <td align="right">0.5</td> <td align="right">1.9</td> <td align="right">.243</td> <td align="right">7.2</td> <td align="right">8.9</td> <td align="right">.808</td> <td align="right">1.5</td> <td align="right">3.4</td> <td align="right">4.9</td> <td align="right">2.7</td> <td align="right">1.1</td> <td align="right">0.5</td> <td align="right">2.7</td> <td align="right">2.9</td> <td align="right">26.5</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">22</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">65</td> <td align="right">65</td> <td align="right">38.2</td> <td align="right">10.6</td> <td align="right">22.4</td> <td align="right">.476</td> <td align="right">0.6</td> <td align="right">2.3</td> <td align="right">.268</td> <td align="right">7.1</td> <td align="right">8.7</td> <td align="right">.808</td> <td align="right">2.2</td> <td align="right">3.8</td> <td align="right">6.0</td> <td align="right">3.8</td> <td align="right">1.2</td> <td align="right">0.4</td> <td align="right">3.6</td> <td align="right">3.1</td> <td align="right">28.9</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">77</td> <td align="right">77</td> <td align="right">36.4</td> <td align="right">9.5</td> <td align="right">19.2</td> <td align="right">.492</td> <td align="right">0.8</td> <td align="right">2.1</td> <td align="right">.354</td> <td align="right">6.0</td> <td align="right">7.7</td> <td align="right">.786</td> <td align="right">2.3</td> <td align="right">5.1</td> <td align="right">7.4</td> <td align="right">3.4</td> <td align="right">1.3</td> <td align="right">0.5</td> <td align="right">3.3</td> <td align="right">3.3</td> <td align="right">25.7</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">66</td> <td align="right">66</td> <td align="right">34.5</td> <td align="right">8.1</td> <td align="right">18.3</td> <td align="right">.443</td> <td align="right">1.0</td> <td align="right">2.6</td> <td align="right">.371</td> <td align="right">5.6</td> <td align="right">7.1</td> <td align="right">.793</td> <td align="right">1.6</td> <td align="right">5.2</td> <td align="right">6.8</td> <td align="right">3.4</td> <td align="right">1.1</td> <td align="right">0.4</td> <td align="right">3.0</td> <td align="right">3.0</td> <td align="right">22.8</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">69</td> <td align="right">69</td> <td align="right">38.2</td> <td align="right">10.0</td> <td align="right">21.8</td> <td align="right">.458</td> <td align="right">0.9</td> <td align="right">2.7</td> <td align="right">.316</td> <td align="right">7.4</td> <td align="right">8.9</td> <td align="right">.830</td> <td align="right">2.2</td> <td align="right">4.4</td> <td align="right">6.6</td> <td align="right">3.2</td> <td align="right">1.3</td> <td align="right">0.4</td> <td align="right">3.0</td> <td align="right">3.3</td> <td align="right">28.2</td> </tr> </tbody> <tfoot> <tr style="" class=" stat_total"> <td align="left">Career</td> <td align="right">
    </td> <td align="left">
    </td> <td align="left">NBA</td> <td align="right">514</td> <td align="right">514</td> <td align="right">36.5</td> <td align="right">8.9</td> <td align="right">19.3</td> <td align="right">.459</td> <td align="right">0.7</td> <td align="right">2.3</td> <td align="right">.308</td> <td align="right">6.3</td> <td align="right">7.9</td> <td align="right">.801</td> <td align="right">2.0</td> <td align="right">4.2</td> <td align="right">6.2</td> <td align="right">3.1</td> <td align="right">1.1</td> <td align="right">0.4</td> <td align="right">3.1</td> <td align="right">3.0</td> <td align="right">24.7</td> </tr> </tfoot> </table>
    Per 36 Minutes

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ▪ CSV ▪ PRE ▪ <form name="pages" action=""> <select> <option value="" disabled="disabled" selected="selected">Game Logs </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2004/">2003-04 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2005/">2004-05 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2006/">2005-06 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2007/">2006-07 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2008/">2007-08 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2009/">2008-09 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/gamelog/2010/">2009-10 </option></select> </form> ▪ <form name="pages" action=""> <select> <option value="" disabled="disabled" selected="selected">Splits </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2004/">2003-04 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2005/">2004-05 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2006/">2005-06 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2007/">2006-07 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2008/">2007-08 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2009/">2008-09 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/2010/">2009-10 </option><option value="/players/a/anthoca01/splits/">Career </option></select> </form> ▪ [Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    <table class="sortable stats_table" id="per_minute"><thead> <tr style="" class=""> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">Season</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="center">Age</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">Tm</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">Lg</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">G</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">GS</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">MP</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FG</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FGA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FG%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3P</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3PA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">3P%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FT</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FTA</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FT%</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">ORB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">DRB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TRB</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">AST</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">STL</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">BLK</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TOV</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PF</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PTS</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">82</td> <td align="right">82</td> <td align="right">2995</td> <td align="right">7.5</td> <td align="right">17.6</td> <td align="right">.426</td> <td align="right">0.8</td> <td align="right">2.6</td> <td align="right">.322</td> <td align="right">4.9</td> <td align="right">6.3</td> <td align="right">.777</td> <td align="right">2.2</td> <td align="right">3.8</td> <td align="right">6.0</td> <td align="right">2.7</td> <td align="right">1.2</td> <td align="right">0.5</td> <td align="right">3.0</td> <td align="right">2.7</td> <td align="right">20.7</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">20</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">75</td> <td align="right">75</td> <td align="right">2608</td> <td align="right">7.3</td> <td align="right">17.0</td> <td align="right">.431</td> <td align="right">0.6</td> <td align="right">2.2</td> <td align="right">.266</td> <td align="right">6.3</td> <td align="right">7.9</td> <td align="right">.796</td> <td align="right">1.9</td> <td align="right">3.9</td> <td align="right">5.9</td> <td align="right">2.7</td> <td align="right">0.9</td> <td align="right">0.4</td> <td align="right">3.1</td> <td align="right">3.2</td> <td align="right">21.5</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">21</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">80</td> <td align="right">80</td> <td align="right">2941</td> <td align="right">9.3</td> <td align="right">19.2</td> <td align="right">.481</td> <td align="right">0.5</td> <td align="right">1.9</td> <td align="right">.243</td> <td align="right">7.0</td> <td align="right">8.7</td> <td align="right">.808</td> <td align="right">1.5</td> <td align="right">3.3</td> <td align="right">4.8</td> <td align="right">2.6</td> <td align="right">1.1</td> <td align="right">0.5</td> <td align="right">2.7</td> <td align="right">2.8</td> <td align="right">26.0</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">22</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">65</td> <td align="right">65</td> <td align="right">2486</td> <td align="right">10.0</td> <td align="right">21.0</td> <td align="right">.476</td> <td align="right">0.6</td> <td align="right">2.2</td> <td align="right">.268</td> <td align="right">6.6</td> <td align="right">8.2</td> <td align="right">.808</td> <td align="right">2.1</td> <td align="right">3.6</td> <td align="right">5.7</td> <td align="right">3.6</td> <td align="right">1.1</td> <td align="right">0.3</td> <td align="right">3.4</td> <td align="right">2.9</td> <td align="right">27.2</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">77</td> <td align="right">77</td> <td align="right">2806</td> <td align="right">9.3</td> <td align="right">19.0</td> <td align="right">.492</td> <td align="right">0.7</td> <td align="right">2.1</td> <td align="right">.354</td> <td align="right">6.0</td> <td align="right">7.6</td> <td align="right">.786</td> <td align="right">2.3</td> <td align="right">5.0</td> <td align="right">7.3</td> <td align="right">3.3</td> <td align="right">1.3</td> <td align="right">0.5</td> <td align="right">3.2</td> <td align="right">3.2</td> <td align="right">25.4</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">66</td> <td align="right">66</td> <td align="right">2277</td> <td align="right">8.5</td> <td align="right">19.1</td> <td align="right">.443</td> <td align="right">1.0</td> <td align="right">2.7</td> <td align="right">.371</td> <td align="right">5.9</td> <td align="right">7.4</td> <td align="right">.793</td> <td align="right">1.7</td> <td align="right">5.4</td> <td align="right">7.1</td> <td align="right">3.5</td> <td align="right">1.2</td> <td align="right">0.4</td> <td align="right">3.1</td> <td align="right">3.1</td> <td align="right">23.8</td> </tr> <tr style="" class="full_table"> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="left">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</td> <td align="right">69</td> <td align="right">69</td> <td align="right">2634</td> <td align="right">9.4</td> <td align="right">20.5</td> <td align="right">.458</td> <td align="right">0.8</td> <td align="right">2.6</td> <td align="right">.316</td> <td align="right">6.9</td> <td align="right">8.4</td> <td align="right">.830</td> <td align="right">2.1</td> <td align="right">4.1</td> <td align="right">6.2</td> <td align="right">3.0</td> <td align="right">1.2</td> <td align="right">0.4</td> <td align="right">2.9</td> <td align="right">3.1</td> <td align="right">26.6</td> </tr> </tbody> <tfoot> <tr style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 170);" class=" stat_total"> <td align="left">Career</td> <td align="right">
    </td> <td align="left">
    </td> <td align="left">NBA</td> <td align="right">514</td> <td align="right">514</td> <td align="right">18747</td> <td align="right">8.7</td> <td align="right">19.0</td> <td align="right">.459</td> <td align="right">0.7</td> <td align="right">2.3</td> <td align="right">.308</td> <td align="right">6.2</td> <td align="right">7.8</td> <td align="right">.801</td> <td align="right">2.0</td> <td align="right">4.1</td> <td align="right">6.1</td> <td align="right">3.1</td> <td align="right">1.1</td> <td align="right">0.4</td> <td align="right">3.0</td> <td align="right">3.0</td> <td align="right">24.4</td></tr></tfoot></table>
    The dude is consistent and a machine. He is only 27 which means he is probably getting better!

    I agree that the reward is great, if Carmello is everything you think he would be in New York. Then again, if Marbury was everything fans had hoped he would be that trade would've worked out fairly well also. It's not about whether Carmello is elite, or even if he is as good as Marbury...it's about diversifying your risk, economics 101
    There is little to no risk in acquiring Melo other than fluke incidents that could happen to any player. The only risks involved in this discussion are Gallo and AR. I'll take one solid investment with proven returns over two penny stocks that may or may not go up in value. That my friend is economics 101!

  4. #109
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    You have your opinion I have mine.

    But how are those numbers all that consistent? His FG%age has been up and down throughout his career, and his 3%age has been up and down.

    And you keep talking about just Gallo and AR. You forget that we need to send Gallo, AR, Chandler, Toney AND picks to make this happen. Gallo and AR do not get it done salary-wise. And Denver has made it clear they want first rounders. So it's not just Gallo and AR, it's Chandler (who I am okay with losing), Toney AND picks. This isn't trading penny stocks for a known commodity that is safe...nothing in the NBA is safe.

    What are my concerns about Melo and his attitude?

    He wants off a team that gave him the world.
    He showed up on a Rap DVD with shady characters threatening to murder people.
    He was arrested for marijuana possession at an airport.
    He was involved in an on-court melee in Madison Square Garden.
    He was arrested for DUI after failing several sobriety tests.

    So, yes, I have some concerns about his character.

    The best 1/2 punch since you have been alive? Yikes...Ewing-Starks might have some words for you. Don't let OGKnickFan see that he might have a conniption. (I'm kidding, of course, I have been bashed as a worse Knicks fan than Hitler for saying I wasn't positive I wanted Ewing to just be handed a head coaching job...so relax for a second).

    Again, you have your opinion I have mine. I personally am sick and tired of watching this team trade young talent away for big names and empty promises. I watched other teams take our #2 overall pick for a guy the Knicks thought would be a key cog in a championship-puzzle. I, for one, am sick of losing draft picks and losing talent because some guy was a "proven player". You have undying faith in Carmello, that's your opinion and I don't blame you for it.

    You talk about Melo as such a sure thing...where are his rings? Where are his finals appearances? How come he needed Chauncey to come in and be a leader and take control of this team when Melo obviously couldn't handle it?

    Melo is talented...but to act like missing out on him would be missing out on the second coming of Christ is ludicrous.

    If the Knicks make the move, I'll still support the team, I've got my Knicks homeopener tixx already. But I really want to see what we have. For the first time in a while I am legitimately excited about the young Knicks talent and their potential not just for the next 3 or 4 years but over the next ten. To watch AR and Gallo hopefully come into their own and watch Felton become a top-10 PG with Douglas as a more than solid backup. I'm excited to actually maybe have some first round picks this coming decade, and get some fresh talent on the squad. I want to see what we have before I go saying we should blow the damn thing up for the second time in 3 months.

  5. #110
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Trillion I'm surprised you're not getting this. To give up Gallo, AR, Chandler, TD and a pick for Melo is rape. I don't wanna see my team get rapped.

    We should see what we have. The irons have cooled. Let's calm down.

    Some of y'all in here are just drunk for this dude. The move would only make us marginally better and he wants to come to the Knicks in the worst way anyway. We should wait..

  6. #111
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Trillion I'm surprised you're not getting this. To give up Gallo, AR, Chandler, TD and a pick for Melo is rape. I don't wanna see my team get rapped.

    We should see what we have. The irons have cooled. Let's calm down.

    Some of y'all in here are just drunk for this dude. The move would only make us marginally better and he wants to come to the Knicks in the worst way anyway. We should wait..
    Since the Melo trade talks are OUT and most likely he will be playing for Denver this season ... Then all we should do is just play hard with the team that we have and show MELO that we can truly contend, especially if he sings with us as a free agent.. And also we must prove it to Denver that we do have a lot of valuable assets and make them feel stupid at the end of the season.

    However, even if we did the trade now, as long as we would keep either GALLO or AR i would be fine with it...

    And one trade scenario would be this:

    Wilson Chandler to Indiana, for example for a 1st round pick.

    And then Gallo or AR, 1st round pick, and Curry`s contract to Denver for Melo.

    that would be fine because we would keep AR or Gallo, TD, and we would have Melo.

    Then we would have a team of:

    Felton, Douglas, Mason, Azubuike, Walker, Melo, Gallo or AR, Amare, Turiaf, Mozgov, Shawne Williams, Pat Ewing, Fields, Rautins...

    And that is a TOP 4 team in the EAST, because our bench would be pretty deep, with TD, Turiaf, Azubuike, Mason, Ewing, Walker coming off the bench...

  7. #112
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Two things...

    1. Melo is better than Marbury and would be comming to a team capable of competing.

    2. The acquisition of Marbury did actually lead to a playoff birth. (a quick one)

    So while this was a cute post the comparisons are ceretainly flawed. Melo is the real deal and paired along side Amare and Felton def. makes us a contender.
    FOR THE KNICKS FANS THAT DON'T LIKE READING MAD LONG BULL SH*T

    THIS IS SOMETHING TO CONSIDER, TO RIDE OR DIE UPON.

    .............in my tupac voice..

  8. #113
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    But how are those numbers all that consistent? His FG%age has been up and down throughout his career, and his 3%age has been up and down.
    The dude avergages 24+ for his career, 6+ rebounds, 1 steal and his FT% is decent. Yes, some stats mildly fluctuate. That said, what would it be like to see a player in orange and blue putting up 28+ nightly!? I was too young to appreciate Bernard King so this would be a sight for all Knick fans!

    And you keep talking about just Gallo and AR. You forget that we need to send Gallo, AR, Chandler, Toney AND picks to make this happen. Gallo and AR do not get it done salary-wise. And Denver has made it clear they want first rounders. So it's not just Gallo and AR, it's Chandler (who I am okay with losing), Toney AND picks. This isn't trading penny stocks for a known commodity that is safe...nothing in the NBA is safe.
    I was never talking about trading all those players. You use Curry's contract to make the salary work. We most likely keep Chandler.

    What are my concerns about Melo and his attitude?

    He wants off a team that gave him the world.
    He showed up on a Rap DVD with shady characters threatening to murder people.
    He was arrested for marijuana possession at an airport.
    He was involved in an on-court melee in Madison Square Garden.
    He was arrested for DUI after failing several sobriety tests.
    Fair enough. IU personally see nothing wrong with smoking trees or cracking a few heads now and then. That said, I can see how that could potentially be a concern but dude is far from out of control. Further if Artest can turn it around and win a title with LA I don't see why Melo will be an issue.

    The best 1/2 punch since you have been alive? Yikes...Ewing-Starks might have some words for you. Don't let OGKnickFan see that he might have a conniption. (I'm kidding, of course, I have been bashed as a worse Knicks fan than Hitler for saying I wasn't positive I wanted Ewing to just be handed a head coaching job...so relax for a second).
    While Ewing was a beast and better than either Amare or Melo they certainly are a better duo than Starks/Ewing.

    You talk about Melo as such a sure thing...where are his rings? Where are his finals appearances? How come he needed Chauncey to come in and be a leader and take control of this team when Melo obviously couldn't handle it?
    Chauncey was brought in to be their PG. Yes, because he is a svy veteran he took up a leadership role but that did not supplant the fact that it was Melo's team.

    Rings? I guess Ewing, Barkley, Stockton/Malone and all the other great players aren't worthy since they never got a ring. Fact is, Melo is 27 and played in the West against some elite dynasty's. Further his teams have never been that great when compared to the competition in the West. The dude is big time and given the right squad can and will win a chip. He puts up better numbers that P. Pierce and Pierce did not win **** until Boston acquired some additional studs.

  9. #114
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Trillion I'm surprised you're not getting this. To give up Gallo, AR, Chandler, TD and a pick for Melo is rape. I don't wanna see my team get rapped.

    We should see what we have. The irons have cooled. Let's calm down.

    Some of y'all in here are just drunk for this dude. The move would only make us marginally better and he wants to come to the Knicks in the worst way anyway. We should wait..
    I'm getting it and I never advocated trading all those players for Melo. AR, Gallo, TD and a future 1st rounder is all I have been talking about. Now that the deal with the Nets is dead we can return to playing hardball. I only wanted to pull the trigger if it was clear Melo would get traded and sign an extension with a division rival. I hope there was tampering and I am perfectly content with waiting till next year to sign Melo as a FA. Actually that is an ideal scenario since I am a fan of both Gallo and AR. That said, Gallo +AR < Melo IMHO. (at this point, who knows what happens years from now)

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    I expect that Walsh is prepared to give up Gallo or Randolph, but not both, for Melo. However, he was not going to deal Gallo just before the trip to Italy to play Gallo's former team. I also expect that Denver, at least presently,is not particularly interested in the "assets" that the Knicks have -- including gallo and Randolph.

    It also appears that Denver backed out of the four team proposal because in taking on Kirilenko's $17.8M contract, they would increase their payroll, with luxury tax, some $9.6M. Curry's expiring contract is $5.5M less than Kirilenko's. There will be some re-thinking before the trade deadline in February.

    If we get Melo this year instead of as a free agent next year, I am afraid that Gallo will go. i suppose a lot will depend on how well Gallo and Randolph play during the early part of the season.

    In any event, though I think Melo wants the guaranteed money, I wish he would become a free agent and we do not have to give up anyone.

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    I was thinking that too. The trip to Italy </ST1was probably a hold up, i'm hoping it’s a bon voyage party thou. I’m sure Gallo and Coach probably will be wining and dining the team like never before, it would be the smart thing to do…
    <O</O
    Everyone wants him (Mello) to become a free agent and not trade for him. BUT, we know that’s not going to happen because owners aren’t that dumb…especially after witnessing the results on an ESPN special called “The Decision”.

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