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Thread: Herb Williams and our big men

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Default Herb Williams and our big men

    We have two very young and very raw big men with immense potential. Anthony Randolph and Timofey Mozgov. These guys need coaching and I just don't feel comfortable with Herb Williams teaching these guys. How is it that he's remained with the coaching staff for so long? What has he proven to anybody?

    Anybody else feel this way?

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    Superstar MSGhobo247's Avatar
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    I'm right there with you... Herb must have a real good talk game cause I just don't feel he brings much to this team. I'm sure he knows some things from his experience but at the same time there have to be better options. I feel like Herb is that old guy on the staff that people respect but kinda tune out from time to time.

    Amar'e is probably doing more and a better job as a big man coach then Herb right now.
    Last edited by MSGhobo247; Oct 25, 2010 at 17:29.

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    Always wondered about that. Why do you never see videos like the below of bigs being coached on the Knicks like Carroll Dawson coaching Joey Dorsey or Jordan Hill, he is also the coach that taught Yao his post game as well

    Herb must be doing something though, hard to think that he would last this long as an assistant with so many head coaches if he wasn't doing a good job.

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    Veteran OriginalKnickGrandson's Avatar
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    Yeah I also fell the same about Herb.... our organization should stop messing around and see what Hakeem is doing with his spare time :P, or try and pry Pat away from the Magic for god's sake! Respect Herb as a Old Knick , just not as a coach.

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    Member YEARITEHERE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OriginalKnickGrandson
    Yeah I also fell the same about Herb.... our organization should stop messing around and see what Hakeem is doing with his spare time :P, or try and pry Pat away from the Magic for god's sake! Respect Herb as a Old Knick , just not as a coach.
    Hakeem has been working with Dwight howard as well

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    Veteran OriginalKnickGrandson's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by YEARITEHERE
    Hakeem has been working with Dwight howard as well

    What the hell is our brass doing then !!! No wonder why the kid by Disney World (Dwight) is such a freeking beast , he only has 2 of the best Centers to ever play the game teaching him!

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    I can see Hakeem teaching AR the Dream Shake but Mozgov hell no. lol

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    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Show some respect for Herb yall!




    You gotta remember that Herb went head to head with Patrick and Oak for years in practice that cant be discounted!, plus Herb was a 20 pt per game Center in an era that consisted of Ewing, Hakeem,Ralph Sampson,Kareem (past him prime though) and Robert Parish!

    Sometimes we look too much into a players legacy to determine how well they can mentor, but Pat Riley (I believe Van Gundy too) said it himself that he thought of Herb as a player/coach for us, that is saying a whole about Herbs knowledge of the game.

    I mean Kareem Abdul Jabbar worked with Shawn Bradley, Michael Olawakandi (spelt wrong) and Michael Sweetney and looked what it amounted to! A player's legacy is not contagious!

    What's contagious is work ethic and a positive attitude and Herb had both as a player and coach

    Larry Brown who's legacy was built in The CBA has mentored some of the best PG's to ever play the game. While Rick Barry was hired to work with Bob Hurley and.....yeah you get my point!

    So I get the argument, but having Herb as a mentor to our players in terms of skill development is just as good as having anyone, yes the respect for legendary players will warrant the respect, but that really is about how coachable a player is because a smart player will listen to anyone with experience

    Hakeem maybe working w/ Dwight, but I assure you Dwight wont be dribbling through his legs, doing the "Dream Shake" and then dropping a fade away over anyone any time soon!

    Hakeem will show Dwight the same exact things Herb will show Mozgov and if Mozgov has the skill and desire he will develop, point blank!

    because after all what legendary Center mentored Ewing, Shaq, David Robinson, etc.? they were probably shown the ropes by former NBA Big Men whose name will not show up in anyone's Top 10 list...someone like Herb!



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    Superstar Scribbles's Avatar
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    You know I thought like you up until I went to the open practice...

    Herb was getting it in. I was trying to call his attention. But he was directing the bigs including our forwards.

    He's just one of those guys that probably doesn't want all the attention and is satisfied with his job (after his brief experience as interim Head Coach he probably realized, it wasnt for him). Hence why you dont see him all up on the clips and videos.

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    We have two very young and very raw big men with immense potential. Anthony Randolph and Timofey Mozgov. These guys need coaching and I just don't feel comfortable with Herb Williams teaching these guys. How is it that he's remained with the coaching staff for so long? What has he proven to anybody?

    Anybody else feel this way?
    I honestly feel that if Mozgov or Randolph don't become better post players on offense and defense that Herb will be fired after this season.

    Herb and Curry are the only remaining Isiah fragments in this organization...get rid of him. We need a defensive minded big man who can actually develop our big guys like Ewing has done with Dwight Howard

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    I honestly feel that if Mozgov or Randolph don't become better post players on offense and defense that Herb will be fired after this season.

    Herb and Curry are the only remaining Isiah fragments in this organization...get rid of him. We need a defensive minded big man who can actually develop our big guys like Ewing has done with Dwight Howard
    Ewing gets too much credit. When he was in Houston every one thought it was him coaching Yao, turns out it was Tom Thibs and Thibs was brutal. Story was he was working with Yao and Yao had to go to the bathroom, seems he took too long and Thibs went looking for him, screaming in the bathroom "Yao, come on we got to work on this it's important."

    Some coaches are teachers, some aren't. It's like golf, the best players can't always teach.

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    Member serendipity10's Avatar
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    Amare might be a huge help teaching the post up game. The problem is the defense the Knicks play, I believe, makes it difficult for big men to rebound the ball. Most of the time I see Mozgov and other big men playing D away from the basket.

    The defense needs to change because its obviously not working. Can't say much about Herb Williams because I haven't seen him coach, but I can say something about the Mike D'antoni and the coach for defense which if I'm not mistaken is Dan D'antoni.

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    Herb Williams was suppose to be the Knicks headcoach during the 2005-6
    season and in the 2007-8-9 season. Herb was the best candidate for those
    seasons.
    Herb Williams is more of a strategic-coach then he is a training-coach.
    Herb had deserve the Knicks headcoaching job more than big name coaches
    Wilkins/Brown/Isiah/and Dantoni.
    Some how our unrational owner Dolan, always want some big top name
    headcoach to run the Knicks rather than promote a coach on the staff like
    we had to do after Pat Riley quit on us, we hired Don Nelson to fire Nelson
    quicker than we hired him to make "Jeff Van Gundy" our interim headcoach.

    Headcoach Herb Williams strategy, assistant Mark Aquire training, and the
    assistant coach Larry Brown brought with him ??? work effort on offense/defense,
    wouldve had successful seasons with the Isiah-players if given the job in the 2006-7
    or 2007-8 season to now.

    I see Herb Williams chillin queitly on the bench waiting patiently for his turn
    at being the headcoach for a full season to use everything he learned from
    coaches JVG, Chaney, Wilkins, Brown, Isiah, and Dantoni.

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Herb Williams was suppose to be the Knicks headcoach during the 2005-6
    season and in the 2007-8-9 season. Herb was the best candidate for those
    seasons.
    Herb Williams is more of a strategic-coach then he is a training-coach.
    Herb had deserve the Knicks headcoaching job more than big name coaches
    Wilkins/Brown/Isiah/and Dantoni.
    Some how our unrational owner Dolan, always want some big top name
    headcoach to run the Knicks rather than promote a coach on the staff like
    we had to do after Pat Riley quit on us, we hired Don Nelson to fire Nelson
    quicker than we hired him to make "Jeff Van Gundy" our interim headcoach.

    Headcoach Herb Williams strategy, assistant Mark Aquire training, and the
    assistant coach Larry Brown brought with him ??? work effort on offense/defense,
    wouldve had successful seasons with the Isiah-players if given the job in the 2006-7
    or 2007-8 season to now.

    I see Herb Williams chillin queitly on the bench waiting patiently for his turn
    at being the headcoach for a full season to use everything he learned from
    coaches JVG, Chaney, Wilkins, Brown, Isiah, and Dantoni.
    All you do is talk about Herb Williams and how he is "supposed" to be head coach. He wasn't "supposed" to be anything.

    Breaking News: Herb Williams WAS ALREADY A HEAD COACH FOR THIS TEAM. AND HE WAS AWFUL.

    He's fine as a big man coach, but Herb Williams had this team running a completely stagnant offense. There were no plays, there was no ball movement, no organization, just 5 guys running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

    As a big man he is fine...but quit the head coach talk, we have been down that path, and it's not a path I ever want to go back to.

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    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    I can see Hakeem teaching AR the Dream Shake but Mozgov hell no. lol

    Actually Mozgov has shown amazing footwork and put a "dreamskaeesque" move on more than once. He could benefit tremendously form the Hakeem the Dream.

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