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Thread: MIN trades two 2nd round picks for Beasley; NYK trade 2.5 1st round picks to dump JJ

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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Question Mark MIN trades two 2nd round picks for Beasley; NYK trade 2.5 1st round picks to dump JJ

    Man it hurts doesn't it?

    It's one thing to wait 2 years for the chance to acquire Lebron James.

    It's one thing to trade Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph, because you want to clear cap space (and the higher the draft picks you get the better to rebuild your roster).

    I get that. I was behind that. I could live with that.

    Crawford for Harrington was fine. I cringed a little when we got nothing for Randolph, but OK.... Might as well stink to get a high lottery pick.

    Right here the philosophy was sound, the plan was in good shape. But when the idea was put in practice, this is where Walsh screwed up royally.

    HOW THE HECK DOES IT HAPPEN WHERE MINNY GETS MICHAEL BEASLEY FOR 2 SECOND ROUND PICKS (and MIA was easily able to dump his contract), but the KNICKS END UP TRADING Hill (a 1st round lottery pick), another 1st round pick, the right to swap another 1st round pick, all so we could dump Jared Jaffries and his 1-year, 6 million dollar contract for 2010).

    This begs the question:

    1- Why didn't we trade for Beasley?
    2- Why didn't we wait (like MIA) to dump Jeffires?

    AND HOW IS IT WE DECIDE TO DRAFT TWO PROJECTS WITH BOTH OUR LOTTERY PICKS?

    Makes you sick to constantly see this team run by fools and tools. Guess things will never change until Dolan sells the team.

    Who wouldn't trade Gallo for Beasley right now?

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    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Blah....the real comparison should be what we got/gave up vs. what Mia. got and gave up.

    Truthfully when you consider Mia.'s plan worked perfectly and our plan did not, then you can say Mia got more in their trade.

    But.....dumping a second overall pick for 2 second rounders is awfully risky.

    Also consider that Houston looks like they may be a lottery bound team a long with us (although being in a weaker conference we have more of a chance) then the first of the 2 picks The Knicks gave up will likely not be used by Houston, thus us only really giving up Jordan Hill (a bust) and a first rounder for space that ultimately lead to us adding some pieces to our team.

    It comes down to Houston, again if they are in the lottery along with us we likely fall back 2 or 3 spots, which sucks, but not nightmarish....plus the picks are protected. So this deal isnt as bad as everyone is making it out to be....now if we suck next season and Hou lands a lottery pick then that sucks!!!!

    Donnie took a gamble and so did Riley (if you believe Wade Bosh and Lebron have not been plotting this all along) it was a calculated risk and it didnt work, thats life!

  3. #3
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    It wasn't just MIA though; The Nets dumped YI after the season, and CHI dumped Hinrich. That's 3 teams that took the calculated risk they could dump players after the season ended.

    Just seems to me Walsh knew it was a poor deal, yet made the trade anyway. That's just desperation.

    UNLESS HE HAD INSIDE SOURCES telling him Lebron was seriously leaning towards coming to NY, then it was a terrible move.

    Giving up way to much just to clear 6 million off the cap. Walsh said himself he felt it was a bad trade, but said he made it anyway to give himself a chance to sign 2 max free agents.

    Still should have rolled the dice and waited until season ended.

    Anyway, we probably blow the draft pick anyways. We already swung and missed on 2 lottery picks under Walsh.

    Kind of a shame b/c we could be starting:

    Jennings
    Fields
    Beasely
    Lee
    Lopez


    ANYWAY... you're correct though. If HOU and NYK end up within a few picks (or whatnot) then it wont be that bad. Still, we have to remember that having our 2011 1st round pick would help when it comes to making a trade for Melo, Paul, Deron..... et al.
    Last edited by mafra; Nov 13, 2010 at 21:08.

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    Originally Posted by mafra
    It wasn't just MIA though; The Nets dumped YI after the season, and CHI dumped Hinrich. That's 3 teams that took the calculated risk they could dump players after the season ended.

    Just seems to me Walsh knew it was a poor deal, yet made the trade anyway. That's just desperation.

    UNLESS HE HAD INSIDE SOURCES telling him Lebron was seriously leaning towards coming to NY, then it was a terrible move.

    Giving up way to much just to clear 6 million off the cap. Walsh said himself he felt it was a bad trade, but said he made it anyway to give himself a chance to sign 2 max free agents.

    Still should have rolled the dice and waited until season ended.

    Anyway, we probably blow the draft pick anyways. We already swung and missed on 2 lottery picks under Walsh.

    Kind of a shame b/c we could be starting:

    Jennings
    Fields
    Beasely
    Lee
    Lopez


    ANYWAY... you're correct though. If HOU and NYK end up within a few picks (or whatnot) then it wont be that bad. Still, we have to remember that having our 2011 1st round pick would help when it comes to making a trade for Melo, Paul, Deron..... et al.
    Good points

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    Originally Posted by mafra
    Man it hurts doesn't it?

    Makes you sick to constantly see this team run by fools and tools. Guess things will never change until Dolan sells the team.
    That's the sad truth. Lately, I've been thinking it's nothing but heartache to be a Knick fan. I had hope when we finally got a reputable President/GM running the team but only to be disappointed. I think I'm done. I'm just waiting for the final dumbass move like hiring Isiah Thomas again.

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    Veteran petescud's Avatar
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    Yeah, Donnie blew quite a few in a short time. I don't care for our ownership, coach and GM...Worst then that I live in Florida, where they have 2 good teams. Praying one day to be proud of our Team in the worst way. I like a lot of the elements of our team, but we need more again...I'm tired of needing

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    Great thread. Yo and me both have consistently been on Walsh's ass for this since the second it went down. And as time has gone by it's just gotten worse.

    I'm still sickened that when MIA posterized Walsh in making their dump after Jeffries..he did..nothing.

    I made a thread right after saying TRADE GALLO!!!!!!

    We needed to counter-move and be creative and show actual grit and vision. Not make some trades your retarded 3rd cousin could have, and then just sit and pray and act in shellshock when MIA/Riley put a move on you.

    I remember saying trade Gallo and Curry and some other **** for Beasely, actually. And to pull a rape on the most ratable GM of the decade besides Isiah. As an example.

    Or, simply, to dump Curry simply put. Using Gallo. The landscape changed, and we needed to make it OUR world again.

    Walsh's saving grace is that by all accounts...it appears all logic AND insider sources had Lebron coming. His close circle of advisors wanted him to, AND thought he was.

    He just bided his time to the end to make the bitch move and face the least recrimination from his circle.

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    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    How can you compare Jefferies to Beasley though? Ok Beasley hasn't played great his first 2 seasons but he was a #2 pick and a ton of potential.

    Who knew Beasley was even going to be on the trading block? Who even had Miami as a serious contender in the 2010 race when we made the Jefferies trade?

    All these hindsight bull**** threads are getting so boring seriously.

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    Originally Posted by petescud
    Yeah, Donnie blew quite a few in a short time. I don't care for our ownership, coach and GM...
    You guys just don't see it. Can anybody name one successful team with a bad owner? I'm beginning to see that it is impossible to succeed as long as Dolan is running the team.

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    Originally Posted by smokes
    How can you compare Jefferies to Beasley though? Ok Beasley hasn't played great his first 2 seasons but he was a #2 pick and a ton of potential.

    Who knew Beasley was even going to be on the trading block? Who even had Miami as a serious contender in the 2010 race when we made the Jefferies trade?

    All these hindsight bull**** threads are getting so boring seriously.
    It's not an identical comparison between the two as players.

    2.5 first picks, including a rookie lotto pick...to dump a 5M, 1more year contract? This doesn't seem odd to you?

    Jeffries wasn't/isn't some Jerome James, either. We practically started his ass the entire year TO show that point....

    And Beasely was GOT for two 2nds.

    The point is, we didn't capitalize on any of these low-risk, high-reward moves that work reasonably well for both parties in this way.

    MIN's perspective doesnt even matter. But MIA? MIA, who dumped him with total ease and professional aplomb, even at the last hour.

    I can only imagine what our negotiation was like.....if HOU feigned hesitated for another second do we offer the keys to the city, too?

    Who knew Beasely would be on trading block? Apparently the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's Walsh's job to be on top of this as well; in the 2010 off season of all things...

    Likewise...who knee MIA would try to make a power play? Again, quite a few people, and regardless, ITS PART OF WALSHS JOB.

    Donnie isn't some total incompetent. And maybe he could build a tight franchise some fairly typical way, if he started with a typical NBA roster.

    But he basically sat down at a high stakes poker table and got chewed the **** out by sharks. Not that he is a minnow, he just ain't no shark.

    Still better than Isiah and his regime. But it's getting tiresome using Isiah's historic fail as a cushion for present mediocrity.

    It'd just be nice for some true maestros to come to the Knicks hierarchy....owner, gm, coach....

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    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    It'd just be nice for some true maestros to come to the Knicks hierarchy....owner, gm, coach....
    It's not going to happen as long as Dolan is the owner. Walsh was a legit gm and Larry Brown was a legit coach. This team is doomed to fail or at best be mediocre like the 90s Knicks with Ewing and nobody else. Mediocre meaning not a true title contender.

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    Walsh had done a fine job. Seriously.... I'm not convinced Beasley is good, just cuz you watch one game where we couldn't hold a lead?

    I really believe our lack of doing well is because of D'Antoni however. People can say we still don't have the personal to be a good defensive team but i don't believe that because we are clearly way more atheltic than last year.....

  13. #13
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    It's not an identical comparison between the two as players.

    2.5 first picks, including a rookie lotto pick...to dump a 5M, 1more year contract? This doesn't seem odd to you?

    Jeffries wasn't/isn't some Jerome James, either. We practically started his ass the entire year TO show that point....

    And Beasely was GOT for two 2nds.

    The point is, we didn't capitalize on any of these low-risk, high-reward moves that work reasonably well for both parties in this way.

    MIN's perspective doesnt even matter. But MIA? MIA, who dumped him with total ease and professional aplomb, even at the last hour.

    I can only imagine what our negotiation was like.....if HOU feigned hesitated for another second do we offer the keys to the city, too?

    Who knew Beasely would be on trading block? Apparently the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's Walsh's job to be on top of this as well; in the 2010 off season of all things...

    Likewise...who knee MIA would try to make a power play? Again, quite a few people, and regardless, ITS PART OF WALSHS JOB.

    Donnie isn't some total incompetent. And maybe he could build a tight franchise some fairly typical way, if he started with a typical NBA roster.

    But he basically sat down at a high stakes poker table and got chewed the **** out by sharks. Not that he is a minnow, he just ain't no shark.

    Still better than Isiah and his regime. But it's getting tiresome using Isiah's historic fail as a cushion for present mediocrity.

    It'd just be nice for some true maestros to come to the Knicks hierarchy....owner, gm, coach....
    Yeah and when T-Mac first arrived here everyone was cumming in their pants after his first game with 26-5-5 or w/e it was, praising Walsh to the ground.

    We were desperate to trade JJ. Everyone in the league knew that. Sure we could have waited until the 11th hour and tried to give up less just as we could have done 102102 other things differently, as I said bringing up all these things in hindsight is just pointless.

    The JJ trade has been discussed to death on this board long before this and just because a comparison is made to Beasley doesn't shed any new light on the matter really.

    And just because T-Macs contract didn't have as much inherent value to us (because a lot of that 25 million was already freed up on our roster) his contract did have a set level of value which was pretty high being the largest expiring in the league. There were tons of teams sniffing around that contract at the time. Who was sniffing around Minessota's 2 x 2nd round picks?

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    It's not just about the contract.

    Beasley has the potential to be good so Miami can give him up in a lopsided deal if they just want to dump his salary. In other words he's pretty easily tradeable to a team that thinks they can handle him and harness his ability.

    Jeffries on the other hand is widely known around the league as being nothing more than a veteran's minimum-level defender who has absolutely NO ability on offense...damn right we're going to have to give up MUCH more.

    And you might want to criticize Walsh on it but at that time it was the best move. If we hadn't traded Jeffries we probably wouldn't have gotten Amar'e because I don't think Amar'e would've signed in NY unless there was a possibility that another star was going to follow him.

    And if we don't sign Amar'e, we don't get Carmelo either. That much is a fact, Melo has a CHANCE of coming here (it's not a certainty), but if we didn't have Amar'e, he wouldn't even CONSIDER it.

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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    It's not just about the contract.

    Beasley has the potential to be good so Miami can give him up in a lopsided deal if they just want to dump his salary. In other words he's pretty easily tradeable to a team that thinks they can handle him and harness his ability.

    Jeffries on the other hand is widely known around the league as being nothing more than a veteran's minimum-level defender who has absolutely NO ability on offense...damn right we're going to have to give up MUCH more.

    And you might want to criticize Walsh on it but at that time it was the best move. If we hadn't traded Jeffries we probably wouldn't have gotten Amar'e because I don't think Amar'e would've signed in NY unless there was a possibility that another star was going to follow him.

    And if we don't sign Amar'e, we don't get Carmelo either. That much is a fact, Melo has a CHANCE of coming here (it's not a certainty), but if we didn't have Amar'e, he wouldn't even CONSIDER it.

    Well, we'll never know what would have happened. That's for sure. But, again... the Nets dumped YI and the Bulls dumped Hinrich.

    But, as you say.... If we get Melo then who cares! Walsh is a genius. BUT, if we don't.... Even Walsh will admit his plan didn't work.

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