Another 5 star thread for Crazy8's...
My brain hurts when i try to figure out whats going on with our offense...I just cant figure out what D'antonis gameplan is. Sh*t dont make sense
I demand to see his playbook too
this offense we run is proven dude.
yes it needs a PG to run it right. while felton has been ok i do not see him having the kind of grasp and assertiveness that it needs to run properly as of yet.
this offense needs a serious, dynamic floor general. cp3 comes to mind. signing or trading for him should be top priority.
secondly as i've stated before, stat is not a back-to-the-basket player.
he's a face-up PF.
therefore there's no need to belabor the point about him not getting the ball in the post. stop w that..
on mike d'antoni, he's a good coach. he's not bad and definitely not great, just good.
and he's without a doubt one of the better offensive minds out there.
each of your nevers w relation to stat have happened atleast once or twice. never and always are rarely accurate in most situations.
but it would be easier to get him the ball in those instances consistently if we had better shooting. right now opposing teams defenses can just collaspe in the paint , hence the lack of stat love you and the rest of us knick fans need.
lastly, it seems you have placed yourself in the camp of reactionary, impatient, emo fans that have been spewing venoms all over these boards during this losing streak the team's been on.
it's so obvious to me that it will take time..
young teams have to take their lumps. period. you can't hop-step the valleys and peaks along the way to becoming a consistently good team. it also takes time (unavoidable time) to develop chemistry.
where are all of the basketball heads on these boards that should kno this??
this is elementary stuff y'all.
Last edited by ronoranina; Nov 15, 2010 at 20:25.
I don't disagree that early days are early days, and that cohesion isn't a just add water substance, but as opposed to yourself I've commented ,via observation, on specific plays and/or lack there of.
Care to do the same?
If the offense is proven, enlighten me, via observation, on a specific play or set in either half court or transition that solidifies this offense as one that is proven. I've seen less confusion in sets from our supposedly weaker opponents.
Isn't this an insult to STAT? I can't possibly believe that posting him on the block for a baby hook or fading J in the key is beyond his measure. If anything, that's just small minded rudeness.secondly as i've stated before, stat is not a back-to-the-basket player.
Categorising Amar'e as incapable of a back to the basket game is a poor defence in any argument. Dwight Howard has a baby hook and is half as capable as STAT offensively. Say no more.
So that's Amar'e covered.
Not only is that not a realistic option, but if the offense relies so heavily on one component, then it is flawed.this offense needs a serious floor general. cp3 comes to mind. signing or trading for him should be top priority.
Now, I'm debating whether or not you've watched any games. Or at least whether you've popped out for a stroll in the second half of each game.it seems you have unfortunately placed yourself in the camp of reactionary, impatient, emo fans that have been spewing venoms all over these boards during this losing streak the team's been on.
If you go back over our posts and compare them, mine was about basketball in the form of set plays and observations regarding the offense. Yours is about defending a coach. You've said nothing with any regard to the basketball you've watched. No comments on designed plays etc. NOTHING.
Answer me this one question when you reply. If you please.
In our wins against Chicago and Washington, what were the keys to victory? If you watched the games, you'll know.
Are we, is MD, setting that limitation? Or is STAT not capable?ronoraninainainaina
secondly as i've stated before, stat is not a back-to-the-basket player.
he's a face-up PF.
I remember I'd watched this video ,at some stage, with a low post instructional by, sadly, Carlos Boozer.
Please, give it a peek and then tell me whether or not STAT's capabilities don't include the fundamentals required to play as a post up scorer.
Pay particular attention to the in game highlights. If it works for Boozer, it works for Amar'e. If it works for Sloane, why doesn't it for D'Antoni?
listen, when i say the offense is proven what i'm referring to is those years in phoenix when him and nash had it running on all cylinders for 5 or 6 seasons. when he had players that could shoot consistently and a point guard that could pass and run the pick and roll uber effectively.
right now felton can't run the pick and roll right for two possible reasons:
either he just doesn't have the aptitude to make the decisions inherent to solid pick and roll play, ie the ability to read amare's roll off the pick properly.
...or the wing players we have don't allow amare to get open enough for felton to get a good look off the pick cause opposing defenders are helping off of perimeter shooters; see the inconsistency of gallo, inexperience of fields and the utter brick launcher that is chandler from 3 as prove positive for this part of the ineptitude of our staple play.
either way, right now the p & r is useless w felton at the helm. if it's primarily the first reason, then all we have to do is wait for the chemistry to develop between felt and stat. i suspect it's a little of both. if i'm wrong and it's the second, then our perimeter guys need to turn into knock-down shooters w the quickness or the p & r is facked!
on the other areas of suckiness w regards to our O, i just don't think these guys grasp well enough how to run it. i was watching phoenix play the lakers last night after the knick game (yes i watched the whole game, lol), and those players on phoenix run that shat crisp bro. not just nash either. they all know what they're doing in that O. THEY ACTUALLY DO THE SHAT YOU HERE MIKE D PREACHING OVER & OVER IN THE POST-GAME INTERVIEWS. they move the ball. when they have a shot they take it. they don't hesitate!! and they have guys that are knockdown shooters who hit consistently! they actually get the ball up quickly like WE should, granted nash has alot to do w that. but i've seen too many times where we take forever just to get the inbounds pass in to felt. ridiculous. this offense is designed to run a certain way and our team just doesn't do it right yet!!
now is that soley because of our coach? the system?? felton?? our lack of consistently dangerous shooters?? amare?? the newness of the team? who the fack knows.. none of us really knows, however i suspect it's not just anyone thing.
based on mike D's history i'm hesitant to point the finger at him soley and say "that's it! that's the problem".. it's just not that simple. developing a good team is like baking a cake. if some, or even one of the ingredients is missing you get a nasty ass-tasting cake. right now our team is type nasty and it's because of alot of things.. to point at our coach and say he is the one reason that the team is sinking based on his history is shortsighted imo.
what i do know is that coach basicly brought this O and nash into prominence.. has he lost it suddenly?? is it the system?? it was all nash right? the answers are complicated and elusive to pinpoint. i'm not gonna claim i have them.
the fundamental thing i want to get across here is my philosophy on the impact having good players has. right now we have stat and a bunch of role-players that have no battle-tested chemistry together to speak of. this is not enough obviously to even overcome really bad teams right now. time is the answer. as much as you and so many others here don't want to hear it, it's about getting time on the court together. it's also about guys like chandler and gallo getting better as players and more and more competent players in this system. the better and more effective our players get within the ssol the better we will be w time.
ofcourse, having more really, really good players obviously would take the edge off of the transition, as we're seeing w Miami, but all we have is stat right now. actually, miami makes all sorts of mistakes and is having it's own share of problems, but it's not "bad news bears" over there by any stretch because they have three extremely dynamic players that eliminate alot of mistakes even tho the team as a collective isn't completely familiar w spoltra's (or riley's depending how you look at it) system and lacks chemistry. it's about players ~~ always was always will be. i spanked red in this debate a couple of weeks back. why do you think donnie's trying to get steve nash over here.
one last thing, good coaching is not about what you do when your under-gunned, which we still are at this point. that's a common misconception around these boards. good coaching shows and is about having what you need to win and then making the moves necessary in training camp, walk-throughs, film sessions, and during in-game management to get your team to the best possible result. any coach who wins in the nba has had the players to do so. you can't have a good coach and no or not enough good players. when mike d has had the talent he's shown he can win consistently, just liek any other coach. and just like any other coach who's good and hasn't the players he's shown he can lose consistently. this ain't rocket science guys. players ==== wins, not coaches. pls get off mike d..
we suck primarily because we don't have the cohesion yet to overcome our lack of talent.
Last edited by ronoranina; Nov 15, 2010 at 22:45.
1. IDK if Ronoranina knows this but, some of us have chronically, and meticulously detailed the deficiencies of this system from way back. These observations are nothing new.
2. As I stated in the Verdict is out thread and repeat...
To kill all this debate about Coach, his system, his past, and present, all we have to do is look at the
If you're happy with them, or think they'll get better then STFU! But please don't try and bash someone for standards and expectations that don't match your own. I mean c'mon... any coach would be considered a failure given these results. And the more you big-up MDA, the more you show patience"...
the more the expectations GO UP. And the more we fail, the worse your opinion looks. Are we watching the same game?
no, he does not have that array of moves in the post. if he does i haven't seen them.
this could either be because he REALLY doesn't have them, or it's a bi-product of him playing in mike d's system.
boozer is really, really fundamentally sound, like duncan fundamentally sound w/out the size.
amare gets by on athletic ability. he's quick and explosive as hell!
it was smart of him to develop a consistent jumpshot because now he's basically unguardable, hence all of the double teams.
stat's dominant in his own way.
I happen to be optimistic in spite of the loosing cause i understand the what it takes for chemistry to develop. you should kno this as the representative coach on the boards red.
simply put, you hate on mike d, so the rest of us are foolish because we've seen his system and coaching work in the past and refuse to believe that it can't work now under similar circumstances..
those circumstances being that he has enough TALENT to win in this league consistently. right now he doesn't and the best we can hope right now is to develop enough cohesion to be a "dangerous" team, ie a .500 or just below.
it's not time to give up hope yet.. or wildly proclaim the "verdict is in", lol...
"Biggest weakness: Stubborness can often alienate, confuse complimentary players"
this is HUGE. Stubborn-ness! Alienation! Confusion! 'Antoni!
"The Knicks' roster is hardly stacked, but for the first time in D'Antoni's tenure, they have a team built to play his style."
'Antoni needs a team built to play his style, he cannot win without one of the league's best point guards, and as we've seen for 2+ years, cannot win with a new team if they don't play his SSOL to perfection.
"D'Antoni is not perfect -- he stubbornly relies on a short rotation despite playing at a breathneck pace - but he's a brilliant offensive mind that understands the key to a good offense in this league is eschewing the mid-range jump shot."
Stubborn-ness rears it's stubborn head again. A short rotation that leaves players winded in 4th quarter, spent by season's end.
A good offense eschews the mid-range jump shot? that's why the team is constantly shooting 3's, living and most of the time dying by it. the key to a good offense? who says?
"He's also a better defensive coach than people realize, though his team's defensive rankings are a bit misleading because D'Antoni preaches a low foul rate, sometimes at the expense of preventing points."
A low foul rate at the expense of preventing points? that's just BAD DEFENSE!!
"D'Antoni's reputation took a bit of a hit with the success of Alvin Gentry in Phoenix this year..."
'Antoni's rep in NYC has taken more than a hit, call it a nosedive!
Thank you JPZ17, for pointing this article out. Number 8 don't mean squat when you coach like Number 2. However, I agree that 'Antoni is one of the greatest coaches in the universe when he has the best players in the world on his team. His ****stache rules!!
But in the meantime, what about my question? The system isn't solely P&R. That's an easy way to blame Felton instead of Mike or anyone.
This thread is about the lack of success in set plays/the under utilisation and misguidance of Amar'e.
You can lead a horse to water etc etc etc.
coolclyde D'Antoni's reputation took a bit of a hit with the success of Alvin Gentry in Phoenix this year
Gentry does it.