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Thread: D'Antoni revamps offense, and it's working

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Default D'Antoni revamps offense, and it's working

    D'Antoni revamps offense, and it's working

    Updated: Nov 20, 2010 10:30 PM
    By ALAN HAHN


    LOS ANGELES - The "Seven Seconds or Less'' philosophy had to be torn up, and it might remain that way unless the Knicks eventually bring Steve Nash to New York to run it again for Mike D'Antoni .

    "Steve can be the end-all guy,'' D'Antoni said. "He can have the ball to start with, and when it leaves his hands, it's over with.''

    In Amar'e Stoudemire, the Knicks have the dynamic finisher who thrived with Nash, but although Raymond Felton is a solid point guard in his own right - as he and everyone else have repeated since training camp - he is not Steve Nash . So D'Antoni has had to adjust his trademark system to utilize the strengths of his roster.

    And as the Knicks closed out their four-game western swing against the Clippers lastnight, the adjustments were starting to work. Felton, who had a career-high 35 points along with 11 assists in Friday night's 125-119 win over Golden State, was no longer conscripted to run the offense but be a part of it. The ball has moved from the top of the key to the wing, where capable playmakers such as Danilo Gallinari and rookie Landry Fields - not to mention center Ronny Turiaf - are more involved in moving the ball. Turiaf had eight assists Friday night.

    "We have to involve more people,'' D'Antoni said. "We get our assists by getting two or three 'hockey assists,' where maybe in Phoenix [with Nash], we just needed one pass.''

    Nash and Stoudemire used to run the pick-and-roll with great success, and in the previous two seasons, it was the favorite play for Chris Duhon and David Lee . But Felton struggled to make it work with Stoudemire, and after about a dozen games of trying, D'Antoni decided to scrap it.

    "When you have 10 new guys, there are a lot of things that you're thinking, 'This is really going to be good,' and it's a disaster,'' D'Antoni said.

    Felton may have found a new favorite for the play list in the "pinch post,'' which is something often used in the triangle offense. It involves the ball going to the wing and the guard - in this case Felton - running off the big man, Stoudemire, at the top of the key. It worked several times against the Warriors.

    "If you come off that quick, it's kind of tough to guard that,'' Felton said. "When I go off, my man is behind me. It's a layup.''

    The Knicks still have to improve their execution down the stretch, as they almost blew another fourth-quarter lead against the Warriors after going up 18 late in the third. Gallinari was able to knock down three clutch three-pointers and score 11 points in a three-minute span to avoid disaster, and it should be noted that the shots were all the result of ball movement, with assists from Felton, Stoudemire and Turiaf.

    D'Antoni isn't completely satisfied, but at least there are signs of improvement. "You get certain ideas and it doesn't work, so you've got to do other things; it's not like you change the offense, but you change the emphasis on how we're doing it,'' he said. "You've got to adjust to it, and that's why it takes a little while to jell and find out the players' strengths and then get them confident enough to do what they do.''

    Felton spoke excitedly about the offense for the first time after the win over Golden State, which certainly made it easy because Monta Ellis (40 points) and Stephen Curry (29), for all of their offense, hardly challenged on defense. But it was a perfect environment for Felton to find his comfort zone.

    "This system is fun,'' Felton said. "Once you learn it and get comfortable with one another, it's fun.''


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    We're playing the triangle now. Got to give credit where it's due. D'Antoni is adjusting his style to the roster.

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    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    I gotta admit the second quarter against Golden State was the best basketball I've seen the Knicks play offensively all year. Layup after layup. G S is defensively challenged but I hope they keep it up.

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    i like this new system it is different no lie and were establishing STAT early and often in the last 7 games he's averaging 26+ ppg. and its not surprising this dude is now on his game and Gallo finally is realizing how he could be as a slash-shooter, he's been epic now im not expecting 31 every game but i am expecting consistency now at or around 20

    our offense is looking good and we've vaulted ourselves into 7th in the east, still early but notable we could roll out a couple more wins and continue to even rise to 6th as the pacers are maybe a game ahead of us i think.

    i was calling for Dam'phonys head but i must admit i never want to see a coach fail here cause that would ultimately mean we fail. so i hope he continues to runt his newfound system to success and we could continue to rise in the conference standings and continue to come together as a team.

    kudos Mike D' ill give credit where its due, kudos Gallo and kudos to STAT and Felton superb road trip people lets continue this level of play

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    Man I love this new Offense have you seen the last 3 games, one have been more exciting than the other. Every game we see more confident players that are ready to push the ball and look for the best shot.

    And I love it

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    Felton may have found a new favorite for the play list in the "pinch post,'' which is something often used in the triangle offense. It involves the ball going to the wing and the guard - in this case Felton - running off the big man, Stoudemire, at the top of the key. It worked several times against the Warriors.


    Any play run against the Warriors is going to work, let's see if Felton/Amare can run that against KG/Rondo before using it to replace the PnR.

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    Originally Posted by Knicksfansince92
    Man I love this new Offense have you seen the last 3 games, one have been more exciting than the other. Every game we see more confident players that are ready to push the ball and look for the best shot.

    And I love it
    yea man were establishing the players we need to establish and that opens it up for the bench to come in and continue the high level of play....this is awesome hopefully we stay on it looks like we got ourselves a system!!

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    We're playing the triangle now. Got to give credit where it's due. D'Antoni is adjusting his style to the roster.
    nice find LJ! it's the same offense tho. coach is just getting the ball out of felt's hands early and letting the wing guys get more touches. my goodness this was needed. coach used all of the same stuff in phoenix when nash wasn't in the game and sometimes when he was.

    he's trusting the players to execute these new wrinkles and it's working right now. teams will adjust tho. our offense needs to be as varied as it possibly can be and the guys need to continue to learn to execute these plays more competently so no matter who we play we can score effectively.

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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    nice find LJ! it's the same offense tho. coach is just getting the ball out of felt's hands early and letting the wing guys get more touches. my goodness this was needed. coach used all of the same stuff in phoenix when nash wasn't in the game and sometimes when he was.

    he's trusting the players to execute these new wrinkles and it's working right now. teams will adjust tho. our offense needs to be as varied as it possibly can be and the guys need to continue to learn to execute these plays more competently so no matter who we play we can score effectively.
    Exactly! It's logical timing too. D'ant is taking Felton's (already revolutionized) game, and evolving it within the reality of our team now. At a moment when it made sense to give more trust to Fields (rookie starter), Gallo (22yr old who started season with cold shooting stretch$, etc.

    Arguably, while Felton is no Nash, this evolution D'ant is working on could make us more powerful than Phoenix. Is it possible...that Nash's excellence made them *too* predictable, or not able to vary things up with enough frequently and fluidity in game plan, due to how routinely the offense ran through him.

    It was ran with majestic skill and effectiveness, but when people talk about that classic Suns' teams hitting walls, especially in the playoffs, maybe it was that.

    Now we have the same "system", same principles, but the way our team is built and how D'ant is taking things, we may have that ingredient of "variability" and mixing it, in spades.

    If we get Melo, superb. But I wouldn't hate finding a smart SG who can dish and make plays, sign M. Gasol, re-sign Wilson, and make **** rain from that.

    Walsh could show brilliance in finding the perfect value SG for us this season or coming offseason.

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    This is the offense I've been waiting for. Not only is it working, but I love players attacking the basket. Great, aggressive basketball.

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    People say the triangle offense only works if the team has someone like Kobe, but the Knicks are making it work. From time to time there will be pick n rolls and during the game last night they perfected the give and go a few times. I didn't notice the Knicks were running the triangle offense, but its always good to stick with whats working.

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    Originally Posted by RunningJumper
    This is the offense I've been waiting for. Not only is it working, but I love players attacking the basket. Great, aggressive basketball.
    thats 90's-esque of us man thats what we need to be like, and i love when we hit all who come into the paint hard. make them think twice about that paint! especially with all the blocks we've had

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    I feel like they should give the pick and roll another shot, but at the same time I feel as if they shouldn't solely rely on it. I mean if you know it's coming it's not exactly a great play, is it? But say Amar'e and Felton run that about 8-9 times a game...switch it up. An unpredictable offense is the best type, and our roster is built just that way - we've got players who can slash and drive really well (Felton, Gallinari, Chandler, Amar'e), players who can shoot really well (Felton, Gallinari, Douglas, fields), and a lot of good playmakers (Turiaf is surprisingly a great playmaker, Fields and Gallinari are good too not to mention Douglas is emerging), so being able to run all different sorts of sets is what'll make us a great team.

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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Good read. Thanks for the post LJ.

    This is also what helped Felton in CHA. Be a part of the offense, not having the pressure to run the entire show.

    Coach K did this at Duke. He scrapped the Hurley & J-Will offense when he needed to. When you have that QB.... great.... go for it; if not, then play to the strengths of your players.

    Felton is very good if you use him properly.

    Getting more people involved in the flow is only a good thing. We need all five guys playing as 1, and that was not the case when we were asking Felton to fill-in as the Nash role here.

    Finally, what I've learned most so far this year is that the Knicks need that 3rd scoring option in the 4th quarter. This is the only way they can close out games.

    Felton-Stat will do their thing, but it's not enough. Gallo, Chanlder or Douglas have to step up when the game is on the line. One has to surface nightly as that 3rd option... safety valve... to alleviate pressure from the Felton-STAT duo.

    In order for everything to work, we need that kick-out option or else teams will just take away the paint nand force Felton to hit jumpers or for Stat to drive 1 on 3.

    I really hope Gallo continues to blossom. Last few games have been great. NOw make it the norm. I also want to see Chandler get back to what he was doing the first few games.

    Let's DO IT!

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    Default Notes and Observations

    I'm a little confused by people on here talking about the triangle. We are running just one play from the triangle the "pinch and post." Triangle is predicated on post play and cutting.

    Of course our offense looks good against the worst defensive teams in the league, if we can get this kind of execution against the celtics, lakers, heat or other elite defensive teams then consider it real progress.

    I know this may sound crazy but Turiaf just may be the most valuable piece of the GS trade in the short term. While many believed he would be an offensive liability he blends right in much like fields and makes solid passes and rarely takes a poor shot. Turiaf had 8 assists last game to go with infinite energy and hustle on the defensive end. When he was injured we looked lost. Since his return we are 3-1.

    Felton is better utilized as a scoring threat first and a passer second. When Felton started the season trying to get everyone involved teams were playing the passing lanes and making it very difficult for him to distribute. With Felt looking to score he keeps defenses more honest. Even if he is not hitting his shot, its important for him t take the open looks he gets much like Rondo.

    STAT is STAT, while he did playing against undersized opponents, he did his job of dominating nearly getting to the paint and the line at will. He is the key to our offense as he gets Gallo and Felton opportunities to score. Those who doubted his worth to this team are delusional. When Felton barks ain't nobody listening. When STAT question the teams heart and backs it up role players like Gallo and Chandler get in line.

    3 Point shooting is down, fta's are up, and 3 point shooting percentages is up. The team is making the most of their possessions. The ball is moving and shot selection has been much better. Passing could be better but that will come with time as guys understand each other's tendencies better.

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    our prayers have been answered, this is the perfect offense for dynamic players like amare gallo and fields, and being so versatile they'll do more with it than lower athletes

    its the basic triangle where the post players come up high post and the guards pass it for a give and go or get it back for a shot

    matt barnes and steve blake are excelling in it, if they were starters they could easily be averaging 20ppg considering they shot above average on other teams with irregular offenses, so it's great for shooters

    in this system as a player u know what kind of looks u get, on other teams u don't know what to expect from game to game cuz so many teams adjust plays according to matchups and etc

    IMO dantoni has redeemed himself for this 1 major adjustment alone, with the offense being more fluent now the team can focus more on defense




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