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Thread: Knicks could of had M-Ellis straight up for Lee (good/bad move)

  1. #1
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Default Knicks could of had M-Ellis straight up for Lee (good/bad move)

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    Walsh and his scouts had pegged Randolph as a future All-Star coming out of the 2008 draft and Walsh leapt at the opportunity to have Randolph included in the[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]sign-and-trade last July.

    Golden State's troubled guard[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]was available straight-up for Lee, but the Knicks didn't want the long-term contract that would have precluded them to having cap flexibility to sign Carmelo Anthony in 2011 and Chris Paul in 2012.

    Ellis is now playing like an All-Star, and Randolph has played his way off the rotation for the foreseeable future.

    ==========

    What do we think of this?

    Obviously, getting 3 players instead of 1, and leaving door open to snag Melo or Paul makes total sense to me.

    I would definitely prefer Turiaf and Melo any day of the week.

    However, what if we swing and miss...

    Also, would we be a better team this year?

    I mean, if we traded for M-Ellis instead of the other 3.... We obviously don't sign Felton. What do we do with that money? If we let Chandler walk, could we still sign Melo (or any max free agent)?

    Ellis
    Fields
    Gallo
    Stat
    ? (With money we gave to Felton, we get a Turiaf type C)

    Tough one.

    I have to side with Walsh. I mean, unless I could get both Turiaf and Ellis, it just makes more sense to grab Turiaf (to compliment STAT), get an "asset" in Randolph, roll the dice with Azu, and keep a "bad" contract off the books.

    NO DOUBT if Knicks had Ellis we would be a playoff team this year. We probably win games 138-131. BUt, we would have no defense in the paint. We saw what happened when Turiaf was hurt.

    BUT IF WE DO NOT GET MELO, then we might regret ths decision?

    I mean, say we sign Marc Gasol.

    Ellis
    Fields
    Gallo
    STAT
    Gasol

    That might not win titles, but it is an exciting team.

    Anyway. I think we made the right move. Your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Not a bad move at all. Ellis's contract is horrendous and instead we got deeper, filled needs including a defensive, rebounding compliment to Amare a potential all-star caliber starting SG and AR who may or may not be a bust. This was accomplished while leaving our cap flexibility intact moving forward.

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    Sexy Stud knickzrulezH20's Avatar
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    Monta Ellis? Nooo thank you.

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    Veteran p0nder's Avatar
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    I like the move we made much more then the ellis deal. Turiaf is the man, perhaps the most influential player on our team. I would of traded DLee for him straight up (randolph and azzy have been non-factors, so essentialy, we did).

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    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    After seeing how hamstrung the Knicks were under Isaiah, I tend to lean towards cap flexibility more than large contracts of "maybe could be a beast" player. Monta is obviously playing at an extremely high level now (that's why i traded for him in fantasy basketball, lol) but that's why they say hindsight is 20/20.

    Now knowing what we know, it's tough to say. Turiaf is also a vital part of the team, so not having him would definitely hurt...and if (there goes that word) Azzy comes back and plays at a high level...I would have to lean towards having those two over Monta, not even considering Randolph right there...so anything he adds is icing on the cake.

    I say we made the right move, or the best move possible under the circumstances. But having Monta wouldn't exactly have been a bad thing either (if he played here the same way he's playing in the Bay area right now.)

    Off-topic: But let me tell you...Monta, Melo, Tyreke, and Zach, all on the same fantasy team is MURDER. That's not even counting Tony Parker, DJ Augustin, and Roy and Kaman who are both sitting on my bench while they're out.

    Dudes in my league are making the dumbest trades you're ever seen.

  6. #6
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Walsh and his scouts had pegged Randolph as a future All-Star coming out of the 2008 draft and Walsh leapt at the opportunity to have Randolph included in the[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]sign-and-trade last July.

    Golden State's troubled guard[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]was available straight-up for Lee, but the Knicks didn't want the long-term contract that would have precluded them to having cap flexibility to sign Carmelo Anthony in 2011 and Chris Paul in 2012.

    Ellis is now playing like an All-Star, and Randolph has played his way off the rotation for the foreseeable future.

    ==========

    What do we think of this?

    Obviously, getting 3 players instead of 1, and leaving door open to snag Melo or Paul makes total sense to me.

    I would definitely prefer Turiaf and Melo any day of the week.

    However, what if we swing and miss...

    Also, would we be a better team this year?

    I mean, if we traded for M-Ellis instead of the other 3.... We obviously don't sign Felton. What do we do with that money? If we let Chandler walk, could we still sign Melo (or any max free agent)?

    Ellis
    Fields
    Gallo
    Stat
    ? (With money we gave to Felton, we get a Turiaf type C)

    Tough one.

    I have to side with Walsh. I mean, unless I could get both Turiaf and Ellis, it just makes more sense to grab Turiaf (to compliment STAT), get an "asset" in Randolph, roll the dice with Azu, and keep a "bad" contract off the books.

    NO DOUBT if Knicks had Ellis we would be a playoff team this year. We probably win games 138-131. BUt, we would have no defense in the paint. We saw what happened when Turiaf was hurt.

    BUT IF WE DO NOT GET MELO, then we might regret ths decision?

    I mean, say we sign Marc Gasol.

    Ellis
    Fields
    Gallo
    STAT
    Gasol

    That might not win titles, but it is an exciting team.

    Anyway. I think we made the right move. Your thoughts?
    Did you see his 2/10 game against the lakers? He is a 6' 3" scorer with a huge contract!! Not needed on this team, keep cap sapce to get that 1 player that will push this team over the hump

  7. #7
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    CoolClyde's Avatar
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    Default monta ellis dee

    sorry, monta ellis dee did not fit into plan 2010 from outer space, to allow cap room to snag 2 max freedom agents, hence, this is a non-thread.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Not a bad move at all. Ellis's contract is horrendous and instead we got deeper, filled needs including a defensive, rebounding compliment to Amare a potential all-star caliber starting SG and AR who may or may not be a bust. This was accomplished while leaving our cap flexibility intact moving forward.
    This. Also, there was also no way in hell anyone could predict how Elis could have gone this season. He was still coming back from injury and he absolutely destroyed team chemistry. Scouting reports would all agree that he was just out to pad his own numbers. Apparently, his new girl changed him a lot for the better. Shes apparently older and wiser than him and a great influence. Shows how its always the women who are the rise or downfall of the men

    There was no way any GM would have picked up Ellis as he was last year. I"m just glad we managed to get some great pieces and have flexibility for the next few years. Gotta build for the long term.

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    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    The plan was to stockpile assets and I think that was accomplished. We're obviously thin with 1st rd picks so having some young valuable assets can make up for that via trade or cap flexibility. Monta is beast but I like our ability to shed salary each year.

  10. #10
    KnicksonLIN.com
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    I like Monta Ellis. I think he could have really helped the Knicks win games.

    The problem is his defense, but Chandler, Douglas, and Felton could have made up for that.

    With that being said, I like the trade Walsh made. David Lee was asking for way too much money, and the Knicks didn't lose any draft picks. Plus, Azubuike is pretty good, when he's not injured.

    And Anthony Randolph has a lot of potential. He just needs to gain 20 pounds and play 25+ minutes per game.

    People need to remember that Randolph is even younger than Gallinari, and he only played 1 year of college. He needs at least one more year to add weight to his body and get playing experience.

    The David Lee trade is the only trade Walsh made that I approve of. All his other trades sucked a$$.

  11. #11
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    You said it yourself "that team might not win titles" and with Ellis' cap hold we wouldn't be winning titles for several years.

    The team we have now + Melo could definitely contend and even if we strike out on Melo there are other opportunities out there in the years to come.

    I like this team a lot, honestly I can't see us ever winning a title with a philosophy of D'antoni but if he can lead us to the playoffs and get our young team some much needed experience we can replace him when we have the pieces in place to make a serious run.

  12. #12
    Superstar welcometonycity's Avatar
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    why is everyone hating on felton? im happy with what we got for Lee, despite a slacking Randolph. yes felton has had a couple bad games but hes still a all around Pg out of North carolina, give him time he will take us to the playoffs this year, and next year we will find something better depending on how he does...we got the players we need, we do not need to be stacked!! look at da bumass heat

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    Getting Ellis probably would make us a better team in the short term over Felton but I think in the long run it wouldn't have been good. I just don't think any teams with Monta Ellis as their #1 option are going to the Finals, let alone winning it...or #2 option...he's just not a championship-caliber player. Sure, he's good, but his style of play makes it far too difficult (rabid chucking, etc.)

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    Smile Knowing the worth of Knick-Players

    Im taking names & numbers on this thread for future conversation......

    We build a late round draft pick (David Lee) into a double-double All-Star
    player within five seasons, plus his ambidextrous skills helped-out in so
    many areas on the court. Was David Lee trade-value on par with Bosh or
    Boozer? or less?
    I believe if KG had a teammate like David Lee in Minny he would still be
    a Timberwolve. I believe the same goes for Lebron with the Cavs (if the
    Cavs traded to get David Lee rather than Jamison) Lebron would still be
    in Cleveland. These super-star players just needed another player that
    would make a huge impact while they were on the bench or on the court.

    Damn! the GSW are 1-6 without David Lee .....thats a helluva big change
    from GSW start of regular season 6-2 record with David Lee in the rotation.
    I wonder what the trade value would be on "Azu, Randolph, and Turiaf" if
    they were still with the GSW now? would Azu injury be worth a 2nd round
    draft pick? would Randolph get lost in new coach Smart rotation?
    would Turiaf be used as a fuller to fill in on a trade?

    Is Monta Ellis $30M for 3 (more) years contract "over or under" pay for his
    scoring services? is Ellis more consistent than $10M Jamar Crawford?

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    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    I wonder how many posters in this thread were the same posters
    mentioning David Lee was not worth $8M per in the 2008 offseason
    when Lee's agent stopped the Lee trade to Memphis???

  15. #15
    Newbie LivesInNewJersey's Avatar
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    I'll live with it. Turiaf alone is not a great return, but if Azuibuke and Randolph help us make a trade in the future then it's better than Monta Ellis straight up. Ellis has always been explosive but remember he complained about Curry taking away his shots at the beginning. Plus we needed a big man regardless of contract instead of another smallish scorer.

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