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Thread: Turnign Point for Knicks: Not getting Lebron James! Fortune smiles (LJ = LOSER)

  1. #16
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Ha no I hear ya. Metro was prob. the most vocal about it but I recall you, he and I all agreed on the matter.

    Don't get me wrong, I would have supported LeBron in NY (I root for the laundry first and foremost)...but I look at a team like the Thunder built entirely through the draft. It takes a while, yes, and there's a little bit of luck (Portland not taking Durant and instead taking Oden) that changes the course of the team.

    But I think this is the closest we can come. We are building a team who, every game, they get more comfortable with each other. STAT is a superstar, but he wants to lead, he relishes being in NY and wants to challenge his teammates to grow into a team unit. Within the first month Gallinari looks more like a member of the team than he did last year, constantly talking with STAT.

    I remember when Ewing Jr. was trying to make the team he said when he got to the gym every morning, STAT was always there and had been there for a while before him. This is the SUPERSTAR working hard to set an example getting to the gym before ANYBODY. We are a team, a cohesive unit, more than we would have been had we landed the LeBron circus. The way Miami looks now, that is the EXACT reason I didn't want to send Gallo, AR, Chandler, Douglas and picks to the Nuggets just for Melo. We can be a cohesive unit, and THEN add Melo to the mix, another guy who would relish being in NY.

    With LeBron we would have been good, no doubt. But this team, with a couple additions, can be great. This Knicks team + Melo > Heat. Easy.

    Knicks' radio announcers were saying as much last night, commenting on how Chandler looks like he's 'having fun.' They were saying he seems to be involved in the game ALL THE TIME now, not getting lost. Almost like he's having fun again, every possession. Obviously, in the past, with all the losig and the culture in the locker room, Wilson got lost a lot.

    Felton-STAT will have to undo 2 years of bad habbits Gallo & WC acquired with the 'wait-4-LJ' philosophy employed at MSG.

    We see now what potentia there is with this team as they gel, and when things click AND, on top of that, GALLO & CHANDLER begin to grow and reach the enxt step in the evolution of their games... We might have FOUR ligitimate offensive threats come playoffs, with a Fields playing Mr. Do it All, as their sidekick.... While Turiaf-Douglas provide energy and grit, doing all the other things necessary to compliment the other 5.

    And.... what if Mozgov or Randolph make significant strides by the end of the season, and become a BIG who can give 15-20 quality minutes?

    AS FOR LEBRON... The image is everythign about him. Much like it was Lebron and a cast of misfits in CLE, he and a bunch of nobodies. Certainly we see now that there was some talent in CLE. Just look at what they're doing w/out LJ right now.

    Sure, Knicks would be a very good team with LJ. Heck, even better than the current heat squad. YES, WADE-LJ would have strived in D'ant's system, had they opted for this offense over playing for the aged sage Pat Riley. BUt Riley played his mind tricks and LJ bought into his crap.

    Now Lebron is playing in front of apathetic crowds, while STAT and Felton are receiving standing ovations!

    Add Melo to this current squad. Sprinkle in another gutty-gritty Turiaf-like BIG.... We have a shot at a title folks!

  2. #17
    Veteran p0nder's Avatar
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    I'm pretty happy with the team we have sans lebron and his ego. he is a very talented player and would of been a good fit with d'ant and amar'e. but he made his "decision" and now i feel very comfortable with it.

    I am not as concerned about this big three as i was when KG and allen teamed up in boston. I don't think Miami will mesh and pull off a title in their first year together like the celtics did. Their team is built to entertain, not win games.

    Lebron is not coming to NY, now or any time in the near future so i don't know why some posters are still on is jock. Miami is no better then our Knicks right now, and we are in a better position to improve and get better players, staying flexible. i think lebron not being in NY looks like it wasn't such a bad thing after all.

  3. #18
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    I never wanted Lebron, unless he came with additional elite players. His ego would have been a problem in this big city. He doesn't know how to lose gracefully or get his team mates involved at the right times. The most he would have done for us (as the only elite star) is make a lot of highlight reels.

  4. #19
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    According to a person close to the Heat guard, Wade was "stunned" when James decided to leave [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and sign with Miami. Sure, Wade helped recruit LeBron, but as one NBA player put it: "He never actually thought he was going to do it."
    Wade was applying the same logic most of us were using when it came to James' free-agent plans; he'll either re-sign with Cleveland or go to a team devoid of a superstar.


    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

  5. #20
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    I don't agree at all with this Article. I think Spolestra is coaching the wrong style for his team. They should be running a D'Antoni style offense as they have a small lineup with probably the most athletic player this league has ever seen. Have no clue why they play half court not only do they not have the size, they don't have the players for it?!?!?!?!

    Also spolestra is garbage. You knew what you were getting with Lebron, why do you wanna be a control freak. It's the same thing with D'Antoni and Marbury.

    Unfortuantely i think the heat are a season or two away from being dominant....

  6. #21
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    Originally Posted by KingStarbury3
    Metro called this way before anyone else...He alluded to the fact that we might be better off without lebron and that we should build a team that could take out Lebron and other EC powerhouses. Everyone was calling his idea silly, but Lebron has two other stars playing alongside him and the Heat are only 1 game ahead of us. Although that might not last, Miami is not a complete team. We're closer to being a complete team then the Heat are. In other words, we're the more balanced team. Its just that they have a great sg and sf but if we can make small improvements, and the Heat fail to make any improvements in the future, we'll be the better team. Fields is gettin better, Gallo is gettin better. Azuibuke is coming back soon, the only area where I would say we are weak is at the center position. Mozgov is very inconsistent at this point of his young career, Turiaf is injury prone.
    We look great because we have a lot of two way(offense/defense) players.

    Felton(Has reached his potential...been comfortable with taking shots and being a scoring PG along having 7 assist and alot of steals and pressure on the D)
    Amare(is a BEAST as expected, and his help defense intensity has been immense)
    Fields(Does everything except shoot like Ray Allen)
    Gallo(shooting/getting to the FT/good man defender)
    Turiaf(passing/shotblocking)
    Chandler (our best help defender by far, add that to his 17 ppg)

    Kelenna, Randolph are other guys that can provide offense and defense.

    I rejected the LeBron move because we didn't need a SF, this is why I'm against the Melo move. We have alot of quality at the wing that will be critical to our team success. If we're going to upgrade let it only be Chris Paul at PG in a swap for Felton.

    Its just one of those feelings you get when you feel whats right and whats wrong. For example.

    If you look at Carmelo's stats they're not that different from Amare. over 20 ppg and 8 rebounds...Amare provides more shot blocking obviously and Carmelo is scoring from the wing...but their production isn't that different at all.

    The PROBLEM with Miami is that they have too many contradictions.
    What I mean by this is my little theory I always use in team sports.

    Opposites attract and produce in sports. Having a starting 5 with each individual possessing a special quality, it creates an efficient and better overall team.

    A defense to this is the Knicks team we had 4 seasons ago under Isiah.

    We had Francis/Marbury. Both scoring PG's playing on the same team, along with Crawford who didn't play defense and eventually Nate Robinson another scoring PG. This plan obviously failed since we had two of the same type of players. Its basically playing 4 vs 5 when you do that because those players don't differentiate in skill, creating a common tendency and those tendencies tend to CLASH.

    Another example.

    Eddy Curry and Zach Randolph.

    Scoring big men who don't plan defense who have shot tendencies in the same area. Randolph is more jump shot oriented but the production was too similar (except in rebounds). Randolph can only play well next to a Joel Pryzbilla (Portland) or Gasol(Memphis) Because these men are more physical rugged throwback centers who will provide defense to make up for the absence of defense Randolph has brought to his NBA career.

    Isiah try to sell this Curry/Randolph tandem is one of the biggest scam and embarrassments in Knicks history. We gave up too much cap space and draft picks and solid players for these two positives that create an inefficient squad.



    Now with Miami, they have Wade and James.

    Wade and James both produce similar numbers, similar to Kobe. Elite wing players that can pass, help defense, score facing the basket, dominate the ball...they're not great 3pt shooters but all do their scoring from the same area(LeBron tends to do more close range sine his jump shot isn't as good as Kobe's or Wade's)

    When you put LeBron/Wade on the same team, the Heat aren't as efficient.

    You have to build around players like this, not add the same guy on the roster. You just take away from LeBron's and Wade's game when this is created. Its a bad move. In my opinion Miami is better off building around Wade. Signing Bosh/Wade and building around those players with shot blocking quality centers and guys who can stretch the floor and defend the perimeter, Heat would be a much better TEAM.

    Its complex to try to understand, but once you understand this it makes sense.

    Look at the Mavericks, Lakers, Spurs, Thunder, Hawks, Magic, and especially the Celtics. These teams know how to balance out their roster.

    Teams like the Raptors(their 12th and 10th men are their best defenders/rebounders), Nets(), Kings(Too many low IQ players), Pistons(with a million fowards on their roster) fail at balancing their roster. Thats why they suck.

    I knew Knicks would make the playoffs this year because their roster is balanced and its the best team we had in almost a decade.

    We will get better, trust me. We can beat good teams. It just takes confidence and experience because the talent is there.

  7. #22
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    Damn the NBA is sending extra security to protect LeBron James....what a punk bitch!I wonder where security was when Ron Artest had to defend himself against those Pistons Fans?

  8. #23
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    That was probably some kind of conspiracy set up by Sterns, he wanted to set up ron ron. He dont like anybody with a hip hop image, thats why he blackballed Starbury and AI outta the league. Artest is lucky that Bird was dumb enough to trade him for stojakob*tch while in route to creating the softest, whitest team in NBA history that used to for whatever reason beast on us. I remember Mike Dunleavy getting two career highs in scoring against us. Im glad those embarrassing days are over, no more p*ssy defense and homo knicks fans with lebastard in a knicks uniform as there avatar

    I see u therealicon....

    bleedorange&blue, u mad? Call your mother Mrs. Marbury from now on you clown

    I see what your sayin, it makes alotta sense. We have had very few 2 way players in during the past 5 to 8 years, Marbury was really the only 2 way player that we had during that rough stretch.

    I like this team and the potential we got...There only gonna get better the more games they play. Felton looked sorta lost in preseason and now hes looking like a better all around point then Rajon ronhoe. I like his game more then Rondo's, hes more versatile

  9. #24
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    I made a coherent and thorough analysis of why you guys are a bunch of lebron haters. I am not the one who wishes Lebron fails, just so I can feel better about my team...lol Maybe if you would actually read my posts you would learn something. The Knicks with Lebron James are better than the heat with Lebron James. The Knicks got all the complimentary players James needs and they got the would be Pau Gasol to his Kobe: Amar'e Stoudmire.

    READ MY POST instead of runnin your mouth talking that nonsense wasting everybody's time and patience and get off Marbury and Metro nuts dude, are you a cheerleader or something?

    I'm not mad, maybe you are? Are you mad Marbury can't get a deal in China let alone the U.S.? Mad that I singlehandedly did you and your crew with a few spare minutes and a keyboard no vaseline "homie?" Your another wannabe thug delusional scrub not worth my time, I'll keep being the truth and voice of reason on here, you can keep swallowing Marbury's "Vaseline" and getting neg reps along with the rest of "Team eff outta chinabury"...lol

  10. #25
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    I think that balance is the important factors here as you mention MC.

    Wade and Lebron both play the same style of game. It would be similar if Melo and Kobe teamed up in LA. I think that a difference is when you have great two way big men team up ala Twin Towers (DRob and TD in San An).

    Here in New York, while i agree that we have depth at the SF we would upgrade with Melo, maybe even play him at the 2. He is such a good natural scorer that he would open up Amar'es game rather then impede it.

  11. #26
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    I never thought that the Cavs would be this terrible without Lebron.

    It's funny how one superstar can make a group of mid-level talent look like a championship contender yet people made it seem like Lebron was leaving behind a cast of all-stars.

    Bottom line is that the Knicks would have been a 60 win team even with Lebron and the short handed roster that they were strolling out from 2008 until the end of last season.

  12. #27
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    We look great because we have a lot of two way(offense/defense) players.

    Felton(Has reached his potential...been comfortable with taking shots and being a scoring PG along having 7 assist and alot of steals and pressure on the D)
    Amare(is a BEAST as expected, and his help defense intensity has been immense)
    Fields(Does everything except shoot like Ray Allen)
    Gallo(shooting/getting to the FT/good man defender)
    Turiaf(passing/shotblocking)
    Chandler (our best help defender by far, add that to his 17 ppg)

    Kelenna, Randolph are other guys that can provide offense and defense.

    I rejected the LeBron move because we didn't need a SF, this is why I'm against the Melo move. We have alot of quality at the wing that will be critical to our team success. If we're going to upgrade let it only be Chris Paul at PG in a swap for Felton.

    Its just one of those feelings you get when you feel whats right and whats wrong. For example.

    If you look at Carmelo's stats they're not that different from Amare. over 20 ppg and 8 rebounds...Amare provides more shot blocking obviously and Carmelo is scoring from the wing...but their production isn't that different at all.

    The PROBLEM with Miami is that they have too many contradictions.
    What I mean by this is my little theory I always use in team sports.

    Opposites attract and produce in sports. Having a starting 5 with each individual possessing a special quality, it creates an efficient and better overall team.

    A defense to this is the Knicks team we had 4 seasons ago under Isiah.

    We had Francis/Marbury. Both scoring PG's playing on the same team, along with Crawford who didn't play defense and eventually Nate Robinson another scoring PG. This plan obviously failed since we had two of the same type of players. Its basically playing 4 vs 5 when you do that because those players don't differentiate in skill, creating a common tendency and those tendencies tend to CLASH.

    Another example.

    Eddy Curry and Zach Randolph.

    Scoring big men who don't plan defense who have shot tendencies in the same area. Randolph is more jump shot oriented but the production was too similar (except in rebounds). Randolph can only play well next to a Joel Pryzbilla (Portland) or Gasol(Memphis) Because these men are more physical rugged throwback centers who will provide defense to make up for the absence of defense Randolph has brought to his NBA career.

    Isiah try to sell this Curry/Randolph tandem is one of the biggest scam and embarrassments in Knicks history. We gave up too much cap space and draft picks and solid players for these two positives that create an inefficient squad.



    Now with Miami, they have Wade and James.

    Wade and James both produce similar numbers, similar to Kobe. Elite wing players that can pass, help defense, score facing the basket, dominate the ball...they're not great 3pt shooters but all do their scoring from the same area(LeBron tends to do more close range sine his jump shot isn't as good as Kobe's or Wade's)

    When you put LeBron/Wade on the same team, the Heat aren't as efficient.

    You have to build around players like this, not add the same guy on the roster. You just take away from LeBron's and Wade's game when this is created. Its a bad move. In my opinion Miami is better off building around Wade. Signing Bosh/Wade and building around those players with shot blocking quality centers and guys who can stretch the floor and defend the perimeter, Heat would be a much better TEAM.

    Its complex to try to understand, but once you understand this it makes sense.

    Look at the Mavericks, Lakers, Spurs, Thunder, Hawks, Magic, and especially the Celtics. These teams know how to balance out their roster.

    Teams like the Raptors(their 12th and 10th men are their best defenders/rebounders), Nets(), Kings(Too many low IQ players), Pistons(with a million fowards on their roster) fail at balancing their roster. Thats why they suck.

    I knew Knicks would make the playoffs this year because their roster is balanced and its the best team we had in almost a decade.

    We will get better, trust me. We can beat good teams. It just takes confidence and experience because the talent is there.
    Very nice analysis. Only thing I disagree with is about Lebron and pigeon holing him as a SF, I don't like the guy personally but he's a great player and a legit 3 way player that you can play at the wing, at PF and some PG.
    I don't think the NBA got it wrong by making him the most coveted FA, he was the best player on both sides of the ball available, a potential triple double every game he plays and he defends.

    As far as him fitting on the Knicks, it's like the NFL do you draft for need or do you draft the best available player, he might have not been a better fit this season than Stat and Ray-Ray because we needed a PG and FC to replace Lee and Duhon but Lebron would have been the best building block for the future.

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