D'Antoni isn't going to use this team to full defensive potential.

metrocard

Legend
Remember the thread I made about us being an efficient defensive team?

With my assessment so far, I believe we have the tools and players to be a top 3-5 defensive team in the NBA and bring back Knicks basketball as how we use to remember, except now we'll have athletic freaks who can fly and sky no Clyde Frazier.

We're not built to play a high tempo, I believe with the same players(how they produce and their tendencies and skills), we'll be a MUCH better squad if we played at a slower pace, focused more on defensive rebounding, crashing the boards, ball possession(high tempo leads to more opportunities to giveaway turnovers). We're more defensive skilled than offensively skilled, therefor it is wrong to use this team in such a way.

D'Antoni is a great coach and I am not Kiyaman(one of the few respectable D'Antoni haters here), nor I am not the ignorant D'Antoni haters on this site(NY Baller and others).

I'm just saying D'Antoni just doesn't FIT.

Sorry. He doesn't.

Don't fire him this season.
I don't much about Herb Williams, Phil Weber, Dan D'Antoni, or Kenny Atkinson.

We should really invest in a coach who will implement a defensive system for our guys.

We have a good team, Pistons like squad (well rounded defensive team) that can be special and be different. Because a lot of teams in the NBA are pushing for offense. We can counter that and build for defense, and be one some next level. You feel me?

Metrocard out.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Metro our team is built to run.

We are already an elite defensive teams in spite of the amount of points we give up. As of the other day we were:

1st in block shots
9th in steals
1st in points scored off of turnovers
3rd or 4th in forcing turnovers
15th in rebounds

Yes, no one is denying that we give up a ton of points but we are also 3rd in points scored. Our tempo inflates scores for both teams so it's a wash in my opinion.

We are doing this all with our best defensive player, Turiaf injured for several games. Add in a healthy Azubukie as a defensive wing stopper and the continued maturing of our squad as they play more games together and these stats will only get better. D'ant has us playing really good ball on both ends of the court and I think slowing down the game will only hurt us. The key is knowing how to switch gears and get stops at critical junctures in the game. The Knicks are starting to do this with more and more regularity and are showing they can close out quarters nicely. I am happy with what I see considering our injuries and Gallo's inconsistent play.
 
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TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Oh and think how much better we will be once AR is contributing meaningful minutes. He is long and quick and can defend many positions. In conclusion I think D'ant has us playing at a high defensive level. What another coach could do is impossible to know ahead of time.
 

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
I'll complain about D'Antoni when we start losing to teams we should be beating.

Until then, I can't really whine. People might talk about how we've only been winning against bad teams, but uh...last I checked, you're SUPPOSED to beat bad teams...
 

metrocard

Legend
Defense creates fastbreaks.

We have to realize we're turnover prone and its because of the system, not our defense.

We need to commit less turnovers and force more.
Its really that simple.
 

Blumatic

Rotation player
I wanted Avery on this team, but this slow down offense he preaches suck and I think it would expose our team. Now he has to play slow like his Spurs b/c Lopez is "like" a Tim Duncan (not all like Duncan but you can see it). But I think it has to be a step by step thing. With Dantoni you cant be concerned with points score but be concerned with FG% allowed. We rank 26th in that department and that will be the next thing to build on once we face better teams and in the playoffs. We gonna get there. This team wants to play defense and it can. It has to get better. The offense is better but its still not there yet.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Defense creates fastbreaks.

We have to realize we're turnover prone and its because of the system, not our defense.

We need to commit less turnovers and force more.
Its really that simple.

Well this is a completely different topic. That said we will go a long way on cutting down turnovers the more Riverside Ray and Amare play in harmony. Amare is the biggest culprit and this has been in large part due to where Ray is getting him the ball.
 

jpz17

Starter
look, if we get Carmelo or someone even remotely close to him this off season we will be a top team in the east. A solid point guard, fields a solid guard.. just what you want on a good team, a scoring small forward, amar'e, and just somebody who can play defense. that team would win many many games and would fit great in D'Antoni's system. I hate to say it but I think Gallinari is the reason this team doesn't 100% fit together. we expected him to be scoring a lot more and to have a much better 3.. yet he got hurt somewhat and isn't the same so far this season. we just need another person we can depend on to score in the 4th.. yes I love Felton but I don't think he is a guy you can depend on in the playoffs in the 4th quarter day in and day out. we need somebody else to score...

With that being said, I'm perfectly content with the team where it is right now. We are 100000000x better than we have been any season since Ewing left.
 

metrocard

Legend
look, if we get Carmelo or someone even remotely close to him this off season we will be a top team in the east. A solid point guard, fields a solid guard.. just what you want on a good team, a scoring small forward, amar'e, and just somebody who can play defense. that team would win many many games and would fit great in D'Antoni's system. I hate to say it but I think Gallinari is the reason this team doesn't 100% fit together. we expected him to be scoring a lot more and to have a much better 3.. yet he got hurt somewhat and isn't the same so far this season. we just need another person we can depend on to score in the 4th.. yes I love Felton but I don't think he is a guy you can depend on in the playoffs in the 4th quarter day in and day out. we need somebody else to score...

With that being said, I'm perfectly content with the team where it is right now. We are 100000000x better than we have been any season since Ewing left.

Gallo will score more, his shots just haven't been falling.

I expect him to shoot 45% FG and 42% 3pt
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Metro,

You could not be more right w the premise of the thread. But why is this at all suprising?? We all know what Mike D is about. We know how his teams play.

What I disagree w you on is how you say our coach doesn't fit. This to me this is crazy talk..

Donnie Walsh took this team from the ashes and rebuilt it piece by piece to fit Coach D'antoni's style/system. Do we have some good defenders? Yes. Can we get stops at key moments in games? Yes. But make no mistake this team was built like a race horse-- built to run my dude..

This team was built to run Mike D'antoni's SSOL. How can he not be a good fit for a team that was created for him/his coaching style??

We're built to score.. We can play D for stretches and get stops at key moments, but that's all coach asks as the idea is to overpower teams w offensive prowess and emphasize execution in this area.. Nothing new here. I'm somewhat surprised you created this thread. You know what we're about.. You kno what coach is about.. Maybe not?
 
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KBlack25

Starter
I don't know yet if I agree or disagree, but this is the most well reasoned arguments against D'Antoni I have read on this site.
 

CoolClyde

Moderator
D'uh

good thread Metro. no surprise 'Antoni lovers have responded in kind.
I say if we don't make playoffs this year, send 'Antoni to the Heat, so he can coach superstars, and we can bring in a defensive-minded coach. this team, even at full-strength will never be a top D team, and the notion that a better O beats a better D is a Pringle Dream. we can debate this till the end of time, or until 'Ant's contract runs out. What a shame this team was built to run a specific offense catering to a coach's whim, instead of teaching them the basics of winning basketball, that STARTS with Defense. IMHO.
 
D'Antoni is a great offensive coach but defensively he sure ain't, lol. Think 'bout Amar'e ya'll, he can block shots cause of his athleticism, which is good. Mozgof is good, Landry has like no weaknesses, Ronny's a good defender too. Maybe you're right but Pringles ain't really a defensive mastermine. :2cents:
 

Blumatic

Rotation player
Most D'antoni opposers never talk about what other coach to bring in.

I think most fans want D'antoni out because they are still in love with the Riley and Van Gundy Knicks. They want to see Ewing Oakley and Starks. But the NBA has changed teams run more. Defense still rules as that was showcased in the NBA finals. But with the Knicks and the Suns then and now its really about personel. The Suns "supposedly" have a more defensive coach in Gentry but their defensive is worse than ours and Im talkin Opponent FG%. Our defense has to get better for sure, But we need some of those type of players and definately need better scheme but lets take baby steps.

We have cap flexibility and cap room to get another star player and money to invest in quality defensive and 2 way players. (side note i think we shouldnt get 2 more max players, 3rd max should be use to get sveral quality players.)
 

jzero29

Rotation player
Remember the thread I made about us being an efficient defensive team?

With my assessment so far, I believe we have the tools and players to be a top 3-5 defensive team in the NBA and bring back Knicks basketball as how we use to remember, except now we'll have athletic freaks who can fly and sky no Clyde Frazier.

We're not built to play a high tempo, I believe with the same players(how they produce and their tendencies and skills), we'll be a MUCH better squad if we played at a slower pace, focused more on defensive rebounding, crashing the boards, ball possession(high tempo leads to more opportunities to giveaway turnovers). We're more defensive skilled than offensively skilled, therefor it is wrong to use this team in such a way.

D'Antoni is a great coach and I am not Kiyaman(one of the few respectable D'Antoni haters here), nor I am not the ignorant D'Antoni haters on this site(NY Baller and others).

I'm just saying D'Antoni just doesn't FIT.

Sorry. He doesn't.

Don't fire him this season.
I don't much about Herb Williams, Phil Weber, Dan D'Antoni, or Kenny Atkinson.

We should really invest in a coach who will implement a defensive system for our guys.

We have a good team, Pistons like squad (well rounded defensive team) that can be special and be different. Because a lot of teams in the NBA are pushing for offense. We can counter that and build for defense, and be one some next level. You feel me?

Metrocard out.
sadly i think trillion has a point. I wouldn't say we are elite defensively. We still can't stop a legit team. with big time rebounders and an inside scoring presence... we'd be sick if we picked up our rebounding #, maybe even elite.
Our defense is one of the reasons the offense puts up points when our shooters struggle.
Our shot blocking, steals and pts off turnovers have been great. I do agree that if we did have an efficient low gear(slow pace) we'd close out games better, instead of being up 15 and missing shots and awkward plays that take little to no time off the clock.
I like the high gear offense, but it would be nice to run the low gear, to end the other teams run and to finish our games.

Metro our team is built to run.

We are already an elite defensive teams in spite of the amount of points we give up. As of the other day we were:

1st in block shots
9th in steals
1st in points scored off of turnovers
3rd or 4th in forcing turnovers
15th in rebounds

Yes, no one is denying that we give up a ton of points but we are also 3rd in points scored. Our tempo inflates scores for both teams so it's a wash in my opinion.

We are doing this all with our best defensive player, Turiaf injured for several games. Add in a healthy Azubukie as a defensive wing stopper and the continued maturing of our squad as they play more games together and these stats will only get better. D'ant has us playing really good ball on both ends of the court and I think slowing down the game will only hurt us. The key is knowing how to switch gears and get stops at critical junctures in the game. The Knicks are starting to do this with more and more regularity and are showing they can close out quarters nicely. I am happy with what I see considering our injuries and Gallo's inconsistent play.

Most D'antoni opposers never talk about what other coach to bring in.

I think most fans want D'antoni out because they are still in love with the Riley and Van Gundy Knicks. They want to see Ewing Oakley and Starks. But the NBA has changed teams run more. Defense still rules as that was showcased in the NBA finals. But with the Knicks and the Suns then and now its really about personel. The Suns "supposedly" have a more defensive coach in Gentry but their defensive is worse than ours and Im talkin Opponent FG%. Our defense has to get better for sure, But we need some of those type of players and definately need better scheme but lets take baby steps.

We have cap flexibility and cap room to get another star player and money to invest in quality defensive and 2 way players. (side note i think we shouldnt get 2 more max players, 3rd max should be use to get sveral quality players.)
Oppenet FG% and the amount of shots they get. steals and turnovers take away from that number. These are the strong points...we need to rebound more... otherwise I'm fairly happy with this team defensively.
If we had a lights out shooter, who could light it up...like gallo is suppose to be. or like when wilson chandler has good games. Those two are key, as long as one is hot, we have huge shot to win.


bottom line. Defense is good not elite...better rebounding would get us up a notch
Shooters need to be more consitant...
admittedly felton has come around and is playing better with others.
 

iJoe

Rotation player
Defense creates fastbreaks.

We have to realize we're turnover prone and its because of the system, not our defense.

We need to commit less turnovers and force more.
Its really that simple.

I'm sorry but I absolutely hate and despise threads like these.

Why not say...
we just need to make shots, its that simple
we need to play as a team, its that simple
we need to play better defense, its that simple
and on and on and on....

get my drift?

Its NOT easy for a new team to not commit a few turnovers. Its one of the hardest damn parts of the game. Have you ever tried to see the motions of the other players on the court away from the ball? Basketball is actually one of the most complex sports and thats why its so fun to watch. Pretending you know so much more than a Coach, without hard evidence is just foolish pandering to the whole "find the scapegoat to blame" itch. In the end, great players make great plays and a coach can only do so much.

Lets say Felt and Amare run a Pick and roll.... they're not totally familiar with one another and Felt overthrows a pass into a TO. Does that mean they should never ever try it again? Is that Dantoni's fault Felt messed up the pass? Sometimes its just the other team's defense that comes up with something miraculous.

*edit - don't take this to mean I love Dantoni. I've never ever said that in ANY thread. I prefer to give the guy an honest chance. He's far down my list of favorite coaches, but I'm not gonna blame him for every single damn mistake this team makes.
 

keyser soze

Benchwarmer
I'm sorry but we are absolutely built to run. The main two things we need to find right now is another legitimate rebounder playing meaningful minutes and another legitimate shooter playing meaningful minutes. Luckily for us, BOTH guys are already on the roster. The legit rebounder is Randolph and the legit shooter is Azubuike. We just need to develop Randolph and get AZ healthy.
 
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