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Thread: Why Felton/Amare Could be Better Than Nash/Amare

  1. #16
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    Don't see it. Nash is a 2 time MVP, his shot, passing and handle opened up that whole PnR game with Amare. Felton and Amare will never have it down as well as Nash/Amare. Doesn't mean we can't be a great team with Felton doing his thing and Amare doing his though.
    I'm not saying they will play the same way or that Felton will be as good as Nash. If I were asserting that I would not have made mention to how Amare has gotten better or how Felton has other attributes that are better than Nash.

  2. #17
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Thread needed a bump after the dynamic duo willed us the win.

  3. #18
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    quality thread.

  4. #19
    The Knicks are Back DaTPRiNCE's Avatar
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    word Trill, Nash was the better PG no question easily a better passer and more IQ but Felton is a good passer in his own right, as well as a better scorer, and way better defender. he's just as effective i think this Duo of STAT-Felton is playing like the best in the NBA right now. flawless play from the 2 of them.

  5. #20
    Veteran la2ny's Avatar
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    ill say this, felton can be more of a offensive threat than nash and stat seems like more of a beast so good thread.

  6. #21
    Member BleedOrange&Blue's Avatar
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    I Know this may startle you but the MVP is a joke. Nash did not deserve either of those awards. Nash is not a complete player and he certainly had some help, Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, thats an All-Star Team.

    Jason Kidd not only turned the Nets around when he arrived but he also took them to the finals twice playing alongside Keith van Horn, Kerry Kittles and Kenyon Martin! Where is his trophy?

    Chris Paul broke out in 2008 and almost threatened to make the Western Conference Finals if not for a tough 7th game loss to a veteran Spurs team. His supporting cast was David West and Peja Stojakivic.

    So throw out that MVP credential, that was a feel good move by the league, not the right move.

  7. #22
    Veteran la2ny's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BleedOrange&Blue
    I Know this may startle you but the MVP is a joke. Nash did not deserve either of those awards. Nash is not a complete player and he certainly had some help, Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, thats an All-Star Team.

    Jason Kidd not only turned the Nets around when he arrived but he also took them to the finals twice playing alongside Keith van Horn, Kerry Kittles and Kenyon Martin! Where is his trophy?

    Chris Paul broke out in 2008 and almost threatened to make the Western Conference Finals if not for a tough 7th game loss to a veteran Spurs team. His supporting cast was David West and Peja Stojakivic.

    So throw out that MVP credential, that was a feel good move by the league, not the right move.
    true i always thought kobe got robbed in 06 averaging 35ppg and leading smush,kwame,and luke walton to a 7 seed including the 7 game series vs Phx

  8. #23
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    Originally Posted by BleedOrange&Blue
    I Know this may startle you but the MVP is a joke. Nash did not deserve either of those awards. Nash is not a complete player and he certainly had some help, Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, thats an All-Star Team.

    So throw out that MVP credential, that was a feel good move by the league, not the right move.
    Word. Real disgusted at the time and wanting to slap that long-haired hippie Canadian.

    Total feel-good bandwagon thing, highlighted by the hype the Suns were getting from sports media for their style of play, and the prospects of STAT being like a Lawrence Taylor for the PF position.

    I made a post outlining Nash's career, breaking it all down a few weeks back, basically:

    He came to D'ant and bcame the Nash we now know when he was 29, or 30. And his career had already had it's typical peak, career-yr, and otherwise had leveled out into a natural plateua.

    Interestingly, his skills themselves didn't change much when he paired with D'ant. Yes, everything about him improved, but it wasn't astronomic, really, in:

    shooting %
    3pt prowess
    passing

    He showed upper range ability in all these w/ Mavs. And at 30 it'd be absurd itself to really figure he magically sprouted new "skills" that took a borderline all-star (I don't 100 agree that he was mediocre r anything before), into a HOF guy. All at 30yrs+

    I argued -- and do argue -- that the change was more macro. Revolving within SSOL, every last ounce of Nash's game was able to shine brightest. He was allowed to be everything he could; which is a responsibility, but he passed w/ flying colors.

    We see glimmers more n more of this with our boys. Starting to nail the split second decisions of a fast paced game where action IS virtually forced -- their decisions, vs a more controlled, coach pre-ordaining plays and complex schemes all the time.

    Sometimes they can look foolish and dumb and D'ant and us look like blundering fools. That's the image. But more and more our confidence and execution is having us look like dynamos.

    Our players rape as they make the split second, crucial decisions with greater consistency and precision. Other teams aren't prepared for SSOL style, or the aggressive assault it can be. "YOU react and respond to US and guess what's up". That kind of mind play and situation is textbook game theory, essentially. It applies to poker just as it does the nba.

    In poker, this is referred to as "LAG". Poker LAG = NBA SSOL. Naturally, LAG is the easiest style of play to butcher, make a fool of yourself AND BE GROSSLY MISUNDERSTOOD. You take more responsibility with it, force the action more, put pressure on opponents, keep people on toes, do things outside the conventional norm, and give them greater more chances to make greater mistakes in *adapting* TO *you* above all else.

    Sound like SSOL? There's a good reason. LAG is game theory. SSOL really is, too. Basketball is a game comprised of skills and psychology and variance.

    Anyways, it wasn't until his 2nd and 3rd years w/ D'ant that Nash was able to fully assume confidence and mastery of flow within SSOL style.

    SO!

    Raymond is much younger than Nash, thus we can assume he has a greater chance at growing more and greater under D'ant since age will not retard this progress like it likely did Nash after a bit of time; and, we can reason that even w/o D'ant, Raymond had yet to reach peak status and hit that career-year evolution of his game like Nash already had.

    Throw in better defense, better physicality, SSOL-loving speed...And I think Trillion makes a great point in a great thread; even if Felton never will be like Nash, or even as good or better with STAT.

  9. #24
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    Yeah I honestly don't think nash deserved either of those MVPs...

  10. #25
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    Word. Real disgusted at the time and wanting to slap that long-haired hippie Canadian.

    Total feel-good bandwagon thing, highlighted by the hype the Suns were getting from sports media for their style of play, and the prospects of STAT being like a Lawrence Taylor for the PF position.

    I made a post outlining Nash's career, breaking it all down a few weeks back, basically:

    He came to D'ant and bcame the Nash we now know when he was 29, or 30. And his career had already had it's typical peak, career-yr, and otherwise had leveled out into a natural plateua.

    Interestingly, his skills themselves didn't change much when he paired with D'ant. Yes, everything about him improved, but it wasn't astronomic, really, in:

    shooting %
    3pt prowess
    passing

    He showed upper range ability in all these w/ Mavs. And at 30 it'd be absurd itself to really figure he magically sprouted new "skills" that took a borderline all-star (I don't 100 agree that he was mediocre r anything before), into a HOF guy. All at 30yrs+

    I argued -- and do argue -- that the change was more macro. Revolving within SSOL, every last ounce of Nash's game was able to shine brightest. He was allowed to be everything he could; which is a responsibility, but he passed w/ flying colors.

    We see glimmers more n more of this with our boys. Starting to nail the split second decisions of a fast paced game where action IS virtually forced -- their decisions, vs a more controlled, coach pre-ordaining plays and complex schemes all the time.

    Sometimes they can look foolish and dumb and D'ant and us look like blundering fools. That's the image. But more and more our confidence and execution is having us look like dynamos.

    Our players rape as they make the split second, crucial decisions with greater consistency and precision. Other teams aren't prepared for SSOL style, or the aggressive assault it can be. "YOU react and respond to US and guess what's up". That kind of mind play and situation is textbook game theory, essentially. It applies to poker just as it does the nba.

    In poker, this is referred to as "LAG". Poker LAG = NBA SSOL. Naturally, LAG is the easiest style of play to butcher, make a fool of yourself AND BE GROSSLY MISUNDERSTOOD. You take more responsibility with it, force the action more, put pressure on opponents, keep people on toes, do things outside the conventional norm, and give them greater more chances to make greater mistakes in *adapting* TO *you* above all else.

    Sound like SSOL? There's a good reason. LAG is game theory. SSOL really is, too. Basketball is a game comprised of skills and psychology and variance.

    Anyways, it wasn't until his 2nd and 3rd years w/ D'ant that Nash was able to fully assume confidence and mastery of flow within SSOL style.

    SO!

    Raymond is much younger than Nash, thus we can assume he has a greater chance at growing more and greater under D'ant since age will not retard this progress like it likely did Nash after a bit of time; and, we can reason that even w/o D'ant, Raymond had yet to reach peak status and hit that career-year evolution of his game like Nash already had.

    Throw in better defense, better physicality, SSOL-loving speed...And I think Trillion makes a great point in a great thread; even if Felton never will be like Nash, or even as good or better with STAT.

    This is a wonderful post!

    Not sure where I stand on Trill's question yet..

  11. #26
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    nash did not deserve 2 straight mvps. Duhon and Felton have shown that if you have a good pg, he will excel in this offense. So long as he can shoot and penetrate, he will put up #'s in this system. Only edge Nash has over Felt is shooting, and slightly better passing. But Ray can shoot, and he beats Nash up everywhere else.

  12. #27
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    Default Felton

    Feltton has been excellent and the Knicks have been winning, but I am not that impressed with his ball distribution. Perhaps last night's game is not the best example, but Felton took 17 shots and Douglas took 10 shots. They are our "distributors." Amar'e gets his shots, as well he should. He is plainly the first option. But Chandler, Gallo, Fields, Williams, Mozgove and Turiaf had 24 shots among them all. Chandler made his first 6 shots which I believe all came in the first quarter. He played 40 minutes and and took only 9 shots for the entire game. Fields took 7 shots and Gallo 5. It seems as though Felton and Douglas, either pass to Amar'e or take the shot themselves. There is very little distribution by our point guards other than to Amar'e.

  13. #28
    SWAGABURY KingStarbury3's Avatar
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    Trillion, i meant to reply to this thread a while ago, i thought i did but i guess something went wrong somewheres along the ways

    I agree with this thread, they are two different types of point guards but they both have alotta pride and alotta heart. The difference is that Felton is bigger, faster, and stronger. Nash has never really been a good defender, Felton is much better defensively then him. This is a duo that will go down in Knicks history as long as we dont end up gettin cp3 in a few years.

    I cant front, nash does have the better offensive game but Feltons is good enough, and its still improving. Hes an extremely hard working player and hes shown alotta leadership, at some point this season i think the pick and roll will be automatic with felton and stoudemire, they'll be able to run it at will like Nash and amare did in phoenix, against almost every team in the league. I hope every knicks fan finally realizes how much Duhon sucked.

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