Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 46

Thread: Why Trading for Melo is Better than Signing him in FA!

  1. #1
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Dark side of the Moon
    Posts
    2,743
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Why Trading for Melo is Better than Signing him in FA!

    This is not a thread to discuss whether to get Melo or not. This is not a thread to discuss whether we need a center and role players more than Melo. This thread is simply recognizing that Melo looks like he will be a Knick and to discuss the pro's/con's of trading verse waiting for free agency.

    I was one of those people who thought the ideal scenario would be to wait till FA in order to sign Melo and keep our young core. The more I think about it, the more I believe that trading now will leave us with a deeper team!

    Denver does not have any power since only Melo can decide to sign an extension. So if you believe all the reports that Melo will only extend with NY that means that Denver only has two options:

    1.Wait till FA and lose Melo for nothing.
    2.Trade Melo to NY for pennies on the dollar.

    There is no way Denver allows Melo to walk without getting something in return. This means that all the Knicks have to do is propose a package that is better than what another team will offer to rent Melo for 1/2 a year. I firmly believe we can obtain Melo for a package of:

    AR
    Walker
    Curry
    Future 1st rounder and maybe a 2nd rounder or two


    Some of you will undoubtedly ask or state:

    "why not wait till FA and keep EVERYONE"?
    "AR could be special on both sides of the court and we should just hold out to next year"
    "Trading 1st rounders is a mistake and has burned us in the past"

    My answers to these points are exactly why I am making this thread:

    "why not wait till FA and keep EVERYONE"?
    If we wait till FA we cannot keep EVERYONE! Melo will command a MAX contract therefore we won't be able to resign Chandler. If we trade for Melo and he extends we can use Chandlers Bird rights next year to go over the cap and resign him. This effectively increase our cap next year and enables us to retain a quality homegrown young player who is getting better and can play both ends of the court. Retaining the ability to use Chandlers Bird rights is the BIGGEST reason why trading for Melo now is better than signing him in FA.


    "AR could be special on both sides of the court and we should just hold out to next year"
    Chandler is better than AR therefore retaining him is more of a priority then hoping that AR ever reaches his potential. Simply put, we already have a young two way player and his name is Wilson Chandler! (A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush) If we wait for FA to sign Melo than Chandler is gone...period!

    "Trading 1st rounders is a mistake and has burned us in the past"
    This is a hard one and I tend to agree since we have been burnt time and time again. That said, the reason we have been burnt is that we traded our picks and did not get better in the process. In essence we were trading lottery pics that have the potential to be quality players. This trade would not be the same as before because the Knicks are poised (barring a major injury) to be playoff bound for many years to come. Further we will be getting a legit superstar in Melo who in all likelihood will be better than any potential draft pick we might end up losing out on. Further Melo is young and in his prime so it's not like he won't be producing for many years.

    Another major factor is that if we trade for Melo he will extend with us for the maximum 3 year deal. This avoids a longterm 5-6 year MAX deal affording the Kicks options in 3 short years to go after another max contract if the Melo/Stat experiment happens to be a failure. This is a huge factor and one I have not seen addressed by anyone!

    So in conclusion I have changed my opinion and think the ideal scenario is to rape Denver in a trade rather than wait till free agency. With the addition of Melo this year added to an already hot NY team we will solidfy ourselves as elite and propel us from a likely playoff team to instant title contenders. There is no time like the present and anything can happen next year...the time to strike is now while the iron is hot and there aren't many teams hotter than the Knicks!

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    87
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    This is not a thread to discuss whether to get Melo or not. This is not a thread to discuss whether we need a center and role players more than Melo. This thread is simply recognizing that Melo looks like he will be a Knick and to discuss the pro's/con's of trading verse waiting for free agency.

    I was one of those people who thought the ideal scenario would be to wait till FA in order to sign Melo and keep our young core. The more I think about it, the more I believe that trading now will leave us with a deeper team!

    Denver does not have any power since only Melo can decide to sign an extension. So if you believe all the reports that Melo will only extend with NY that means that Denver only has two options:

    1.Wait till FA and lose Melo for nothing.
    2.Trade Melo to NY for pennies on the dollar.

    There is no way Denver allows Melo to walk without getting something in return. This means that all the Knicks have to do is propose a package that is better than what another team will offer to rent Melo for 1/2 a year. I firmly believe we can obtain Melo for a package of:

    AR
    Walker
    Curry
    Future 1st rounder and maybe a 2nd rounder or two


    Some of you will undoubtedly ask or state:

    "why not wait till FA and keep EVERYONE"?
    "AR could be special on both sides of the court and we should just hold out to next year"
    "Trading 1st rounders is a mistake and has burned us in the past"

    My answers to these points are exactly why I am making this thread:


    If we wait till FA we cannot keep EVERYONE! Melo will command a MAX contract therefore we won't be able to resign Chandler. If we trade for Melo and he extends we can use Chandlers Bird rights next year to go over the cap and resign him. This effectively increase our cap next year and enables us to retain a quality homegrown young player who is getting better and can play both ends of the court. Retaining the ability to use Chandlers Bird rights is the BIGGEST reason why trading for Melo now is better than signing him in FA.



    Chandler is better than AR therefore retaining him is more of a priority then hoping that AR ever reaches his potential. Simply put, we already have a young two way player and his name is Wilson Chandler! (A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush) If we wait for FA to sign Melo than Chandler is gone...period!


    This is a hard one and I tend to agree since we have been burnt time and time again. That said, the reason we have been burnt is that we traded our picks and did not get better in the process. In essence we were trading lottery pics that have the potential to be quality players. This trade would not be the same as before because the Knicks are poised (barring a major injury) to be playoff bound for many years to come. Further we will be getting a legit superstar in Melo who in all likelihood will be better than any potential draft pick we might end up losing out on. Further Melo is young and in his prime so it's not like he won't be producing for many years.

    Another major factor is that if we trade for Melo he will extend with us for the maximum 3 year deal. This avoids a longterm 5-6 year MAX deal affording the Kicks options in 3 short years to go after another max contract if the Melo/Stat experiment happens to be a failure. This is a huge factor and one I have not seen addressed by anyone!

    So in conclusion I have changed my opinion and think the ideal scenario is to rape Denver in a trade rather than wait till free agency. With the addition of Melo this year added to an already hot NY team we will solidfy ourselves as elite and propel us from a likely playoff team to instant title contenders. There is no time like the present and anything can happen next year...the time to strike is now while the iron is hot and there aren't many teams hotter than the Knicks!
    Dear Tr1ll1ion, you seems know something i haven't yet studied.
    Are you sure that if we trade for Melo we can resign Chandler?
    Why we can't use mid level exc. resigning him or use your exception getting Melo as FA?
    Howhever i think we can improve your trade proposal

    AR MOZGOV DOUGLAS 1 second rounder.
    In that case we throw away 3 contracts (we are paying a lot for Mozgov)

    Other problem you can explain...
    without options we seems to have only 14 milion free cap next year

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    87
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally Posted by Aristoteles
    Dear Tr1ll1ion, you seems know something i haven't yet studied.
    Are you sure that if we trade for Melo we can resign Chandler?
    Why we can't use mid level exc. resigning him or use your exception getting Melo as FA?
    Howhever i think we can improve your trade proposal

    AR MOZGOV DOUGLAS 1 second rounder.
    In that case we throw away 3 contracts (we are paying a lot for Mozgov)

    Other problem you can explain...
    without options we seems to have only 14 milion free cap next year
    Howhever if we wanna win we have to take Melo without give them Gallo Chandler and Fields

  4. #4
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Dark side of the Moon
    Posts
    2,743
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Originally Posted by Aristoteles
    Dear Tr1ll1ion, you seems know something i haven't yet studied.
    Are you sure that if we trade for Melo we can resign Chandler?
    Why we can't use mid level exc. resigning him or use your exception getting Melo as FA?
    Howhever i think we can improve your trade proposal

    AR MOZGOV DOUGLAS 1 second rounder.
    In that case we throw away 3 contracts (we are paying a lot for Mozgov)

    Other problem you can explain...
    without options we seems to have only 14 milion free cap next year
    Bird rights allow us to resign our own players even if it means going over the cap. That means they take priority over new FA signings meaning that we would have to renounce Chandler's Bird rights in order to sign Melo since Melo would bring us to the cap limit. If we trade for Melo this year it avoids that issue next year since Melo will be a Knick already, leaving us to sign Chandler exercising his bird rights.

    You also bring up a good point about the exception. Under my scenario we would keep Chandler obtain Melo and could sign another player next year using the exception. Maybe we nab a very good veteran looking for a title similar to what Artest did with the Lakers.

  5. #5
    Veteran Wargames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,193
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Bird rights allow us to resign our own players even if it means going over the cap. That means they take priority over new FA signings meaning that we would have to renounce Chandler's Bird rights in order to sign Melo since Melo would bring us to the cap limit. If we trade for Melo this year it avoids that issue next year since Melo will be a Knick already, leaving us to sign Chandler exercising his bird rights.

    You also bring up a good point about the exception. Under my scenario we would keep Chandler obtain Melo and could sign another player next year using the exception. Maybe we nab a very good veteran looking for a title similar to what Artest did with the Lakers.
    Thanks for finally explaining this issue well. There are so many thread discussing this trade/FA situation that hasn't once gone into the consequences of trading for Melo instead of waiting to sign him later.

  6. #6
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,221
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    If we get Melo, and keep Chandler, who we all would hate to lose the most, we are a championship caliber team, the day the trade goes through.

  7. #7
    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    3,529
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    Originally Posted by Aristoteles
    Howhever if we wanna win we have to take Melo without give them Gallo Chandler and Fields
    Gallo almost has to be included in any package. Chandler IMO is almost as untouchable as Felton and Amare since in his words he doesn't like the attention and won't complain about coming off the bench. Fields is a great find and fits in nicely here but he shouldn't be a deal breaker.

  8. #8
    Veteran p0nder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,323
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Chandler is looking pretty good this season. I would like to keep him and if trading for Melo allows us to do that, then lets do it.

    I like AR's potential and I like Bill Walkers game, when he's on. But now it looks like it's time to trim the FAT(Curry) and get rid of the dead weight on this team. We will add in a second legit superstar scoring threat. If Melo arrives here the big 3 of Melo STAT Felton could carry us very deep into the playoffs. Chandler is an essential piece of the puzzle and a great 6th man scoring threat, or even a potential starting PF and keeping him should be a priority.

    If we can get Melo now for fairly cheap we should. He will be valuable to the team going forward. The knicks are playoff bound, so we should be considering our playoff implications. I'd much rather have Melo on the team come playoffs then Curry, AR and Walker!

  9. #9
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Dark side of the Moon
    Posts
    2,743
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Originally Posted by Wargames
    Thanks for finally explaining this issue well. There are so many thread discussing this trade/FA situation that hasn't once gone into the consequences of trading for Melo instead of waiting to sign him later.
    My pleasure.

  10. #10
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    county of the kings
    Posts
    1,120
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Exactly what I have been sayin in other melo threads. We must trade now if we intend on keeping chandler. I have to look at the numbers but we might have the mid level if we are over the cap before free agency.

    Gallos got to go. The funny thing is even if we want paul in free agency the following year , we would have to give up gallos bird rights to do so.

    Let's do it.

  11. #11
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    683
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Complications

    I do not believe we can count on the provisions of the current CBA, in determining how much it might cost to keep Chandler. Apparently Carmelo wants both New York and a sign and trade so that he will not be stuck with the uncertainties of a new CBA. I could be wrong, but I beieve that our failure to extend Chandler will prevent us from extending until after July 1, 2011 when the current CBA will have expired and we may well be in lock-out mode.

    I would really like to keep the players on the starting unit. Chandler has been really good and with the exception of his shooting, Gallo's game has improved. Fields and Gallo do not need the ball to play important roles. Chandler does everything. Although I remain a Gallo fan, right now Chandler is plainly the more valuable. Denver is going to want Chandler. He is a better replacement for Melo than Gallo.

  12. #12
    Veteran la2ny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Compton,Ca
    Posts
    1,777
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    You are a beast dude 5 star thread.

    I actually stated that several times in the other threads but it kept getting over shadowed by everyone having panic attacks about possibly loosing Gallo and fields or chandler and fields

  13. #13
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Dark side of the Moon
    Posts
    2,743
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Originally Posted by la2ny
    You are a beast dude 5 star thread.

    I actually stated that several times in the other threads but it kept getting over shadowed by everyone having panic attacks about possibly loosing Gallo and fields or chandler and fields
    Thanks bro.

  14. #14
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Dark side of the Moon
    Posts
    2,743
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Here an interesting question:

    What are the chances that M. Gasol or another decent center would sign with the Knicks for the mid level exception?

    I look at what Artest did in LA and think the chances are high considering a core of Felton, Melo, Chandler, Gallo and Stat are pretty damn attractive! The mid level would not be that much lower then what a M.Gasol caliber center will command and the idea of being part of a NYC championship team may attract players to the point they forgoe a bit of salary for a chance at history.

    Imagine:

    Felton
    Fields
    Melo
    STAT
    M. Gasol

    With Chandler and Gallo coming off the bench. I honestly don't think it's too far fetched!

  15. #15
    Veteran la2ny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Compton,Ca
    Posts
    1,777
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    exactly thats how Miami got Udonis back and Mike Miller

Similar Threads

  1. What to do with Curry
    By LJ4ptplay in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: Mar 11, 2010, 14:53
  2. Replies: 33
    Last Post: Oct 14, 2009, 19:34
  3. How to keep Lee without trading Curry
    By DanL in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Jan 31, 2009, 10:41
  4. Replies: 13
    Last Post: Feb 13, 2008, 08:55
  5. Chandler signing postponed till next week
    By YEARITEHERE in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Jul 27, 2007, 11:47

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •