Why Trading for Melo is Better than Signing him in FA!

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
This is not a thread to discuss whether to get Melo or not. This is not a thread to discuss whether we need a center and role players more than Melo. This thread is simply recognizing that Melo looks like he will be a Knick and to discuss the pro's/con's of trading verse waiting for free agency.

I was one of those people who thought the ideal scenario would be to wait till FA in order to sign Melo and keep our young core. The more I think about it, the more I believe that trading now will leave us with a deeper team!

Denver does not have any power since only Melo can decide to sign an extension. So if you believe all the reports that Melo will only extend with NY that means that Denver only has two options:

1.Wait till FA and lose Melo for nothing.
2.Trade Melo to NY for pennies on the dollar.

There is no way Denver allows Melo to walk without getting something in return. This means that all the Knicks have to do is propose a package that is better than what another team will offer to rent Melo for 1/2 a year. I firmly believe we can obtain Melo for a package of:

AR
Walker
Curry
Future 1st rounder and maybe a 2nd rounder or two


Some of you will undoubtedly ask or state:

"why not wait till FA and keep EVERYONE"?
"AR could be special on both sides of the court and we should just hold out to next year"
"Trading 1st rounders is a mistake and has burned us in the past"

My answers to these points are exactly why I am making this thread:

"why not wait till FA and keep EVERYONE"?
If we wait till FA we cannot keep EVERYONE! Melo will command a MAX contract therefore we won't be able to resign Chandler. If we trade for Melo and he extends we can use Chandlers Bird rights next year to go over the cap and resign him. This effectively increase our cap next year and enables us to retain a quality homegrown young player who is getting better and can play both ends of the court. Retaining the ability to use Chandlers Bird rights is the BIGGEST reason why trading for Melo now is better than signing him in FA.


"AR could be special on both sides of the court and we should just hold out to next year"
Chandler is better than AR therefore retaining him is more of a priority then hoping that AR ever reaches his potential. Simply put, we already have a young two way player and his name is Wilson Chandler! (A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush) If we wait for FA to sign Melo than Chandler is gone...period!

"Trading 1st rounders is a mistake and has burned us in the past"
This is a hard one and I tend to agree since we have been burnt time and time again. That said, the reason we have been burnt is that we traded our picks and did not get better in the process. In essence we were trading lottery pics that have the potential to be quality players. This trade would not be the same as before because the Knicks are poised (barring a major injury) to be playoff bound for many years to come. Further we will be getting a legit superstar in Melo who in all likelihood will be better than any potential draft pick we might end up losing out on. Further Melo is young and in his prime so it's not like he won't be producing for many years.

Another major factor is that if we trade for Melo he will extend with us for the maximum 3 year deal. This avoids a longterm 5-6 year MAX deal affording the Kicks options in 3 short years to go after another max contract if the Melo/Stat experiment happens to be a failure. This is a huge factor and one I have not seen addressed by anyone!

So in conclusion I have changed my opinion and think the ideal scenario is to rape Denver in a trade rather than wait till free agency. With the addition of Melo this year added to an already hot NY team we will solidfy ourselves as elite and propel us from a likely playoff team to instant title contenders. There is no time like the present and anything can happen next year...the time to strike is now while the iron is hot and there aren't many teams hotter than the Knicks!
 

Aristoteles

Benchwarmer
This is not a thread to discuss whether to get Melo or not. This is not a thread to discuss whether we need a center and role players more than Melo. This thread is simply recognizing that Melo looks like he will be a Knick and to discuss the pro's/con's of trading verse waiting for free agency.

I was one of those people who thought the ideal scenario would be to wait till FA in order to sign Melo and keep our young core. The more I think about it, the more I believe that trading now will leave us with a deeper team!

Denver does not have any power since only Melo can decide to sign an extension. So if you believe all the reports that Melo will only extend with NY that means that Denver only has two options:

1.Wait till FA and lose Melo for nothing.
2.Trade Melo to NY for pennies on the dollar.

There is no way Denver allows Melo to walk without getting something in return. This means that all the Knicks have to do is propose a package that is better than what another team will offer to rent Melo for 1/2 a year. I firmly believe we can obtain Melo for a package of:

AR
Walker
Curry
Future 1st rounder and maybe a 2nd rounder or two


Some of you will undoubtedly ask or state:

"why not wait till FA and keep EVERYONE"?
"AR could be special on both sides of the court and we should just hold out to next year"
"Trading 1st rounders is a mistake and has burned us in the past"

My answers to these points are exactly why I am making this thread:


If we wait till FA we cannot keep EVERYONE! Melo will command a MAX contract therefore we won't be able to resign Chandler. If we trade for Melo and he extends we can use Chandlers Bird rights next year to go over the cap and resign him. This effectively increase our cap next year and enables us to retain a quality homegrown young player who is getting better and can play both ends of the court. Retaining the ability to use Chandlers Bird rights is the BIGGEST reason why trading for Melo now is better than signing him in FA.



Chandler is better than AR therefore retaining him is more of a priority then hoping that AR ever reaches his potential. Simply put, we already have a young two way player and his name is Wilson Chandler! (A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush) If we wait for FA to sign Melo than Chandler is gone...period!


This is a hard one and I tend to agree since we have been burnt time and time again. That said, the reason we have been burnt is that we traded our picks and did not get better in the process. In essence we were trading lottery pics that have the potential to be quality players. This trade would not be the same as before because the Knicks are poised (barring a major injury) to be playoff bound for many years to come. Further we will be getting a legit superstar in Melo who in all likelihood will be better than any potential draft pick we might end up losing out on. Further Melo is young and in his prime so it's not like he won't be producing for many years.

Another major factor is that if we trade for Melo he will extend with us for the maximum 3 year deal. This avoids a longterm 5-6 year MAX deal affording the Kicks options in 3 short years to go after another max contract if the Melo/Stat experiment happens to be a failure. This is a huge factor and one I have not seen addressed by anyone!

So in conclusion I have changed my opinion and think the ideal scenario is to rape Denver in a trade rather than wait till free agency. With the addition of Melo this year added to an already hot NY team we will solidfy ourselves as elite and propel us from a likely playoff team to instant title contenders. There is no time like the present and anything can happen next year...the time to strike is now while the iron is hot and there aren't many teams hotter than the Knicks!
Dear Tr1ll1ion, you seems know something i haven't yet studied.
Are you sure that if we trade for Melo we can resign Chandler?
Why we can't use mid level exc. resigning him or use your exception getting Melo as FA?
Howhever i think we can improve your trade proposal

AR MOZGOV DOUGLAS 1 second rounder.
In that case we throw away 3 contracts (we are paying a lot for Mozgov)

Other problem you can explain...
without options we seems to have only 14 milion free cap next year
 

Aristoteles

Benchwarmer
Dear Tr1ll1ion, you seems know something i haven't yet studied.
Are you sure that if we trade for Melo we can resign Chandler?
Why we can't use mid level exc. resigning him or use your exception getting Melo as FA?
Howhever i think we can improve your trade proposal

AR MOZGOV DOUGLAS 1 second rounder.
In that case we throw away 3 contracts (we are paying a lot for Mozgov)

Other problem you can explain...
without options we seems to have only 14 milion free cap next year
Howhever if we wanna win we have to take Melo without give them Gallo Chandler and Fields
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Dear Tr1ll1ion, you seems know something i haven't yet studied.
Are you sure that if we trade for Melo we can resign Chandler?
Why we can't use mid level exc. resigning him or use your exception getting Melo as FA?
Howhever i think we can improve your trade proposal

AR MOZGOV DOUGLAS 1 second rounder.
In that case we throw away 3 contracts (we are paying a lot for Mozgov)

Other problem you can explain...
without options we seems to have only 14 milion free cap next year

Bird rights allow us to resign our own players even if it means going over the cap. That means they take priority over new FA signings meaning that we would have to renounce Chandler's Bird rights in order to sign Melo since Melo would bring us to the cap limit. If we trade for Melo this year it avoids that issue next year since Melo will be a Knick already, leaving us to sign Chandler exercising his bird rights.

You also bring up a good point about the exception. Under my scenario we would keep Chandler obtain Melo and could sign another player next year using the exception. Maybe we nab a very good veteran looking for a title similar to what Artest did with the Lakers.
 

Wargames

Starter
Bird rights allow us to resign our own players even if it means going over the cap. That means they take priority over new FA signings meaning that we would have to renounce Chandler's Bird rights in order to sign Melo since Melo would bring us to the cap limit. If we trade for Melo this year it avoids that issue next year since Melo will be a Knick already, leaving us to sign Chandler exercising his bird rights.

You also bring up a good point about the exception. Under my scenario we would keep Chandler obtain Melo and could sign another player next year using the exception. Maybe we nab a very good veteran looking for a title similar to what Artest did with the Lakers.

Thanks for finally explaining this issue well. There are so many thread discussing this trade/FA situation that hasn't once gone into the consequences of trading for Melo instead of waiting to sign him later.
 
If we get Melo, and keep Chandler, who we all would hate to lose the most, we are a championship caliber team, the day the trade goes through.
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
Howhever if we wanna win we have to take Melo without give them Gallo Chandler and Fields

Gallo almost has to be included in any package. Chandler IMO is almost as untouchable as Felton and Amare since in his words he doesn't like the attention and won't complain about coming off the bench. Fields is a great find and fits in nicely here but he shouldn't be a deal breaker.
 

p0nder

Starter
Chandler is looking pretty good this season. I would like to keep him and if trading for Melo allows us to do that, then lets do it.

I like AR's potential and I like Bill Walkers game, when he's on. But now it looks like it's time to trim the FAT(Curry) and get rid of the dead weight on this team. We will add in a second legit superstar scoring threat. If Melo arrives here the big 3 of Melo STAT Felton could carry us very deep into the playoffs. Chandler is an essential piece of the puzzle and a great 6th man scoring threat, or even a potential starting PF and keeping him should be a priority.

If we can get Melo now for fairly cheap we should. He will be valuable to the team going forward. The knicks are playoff bound, so we should be considering our playoff implications. I'd much rather have Melo on the team come playoffs then Curry, AR and Walker!
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Thanks for finally explaining this issue well. There are so many thread discussing this trade/FA situation that hasn't once gone into the consequences of trading for Melo instead of waiting to sign him later.

My pleasure. :thumbsup:
 

moneyg

Starter
Exactly what I have been sayin in other melo threads. We must trade now if we intend on keeping chandler. I have to look at the numbers but we might have the mid level if we are over the cap before free agency.

Gallos got to go. The funny thing is even if we want paul in free agency the following year , we would have to give up gallos bird rights to do so.

Let's do it.
 

Oldtimer

Rotation player
Complications

I do not believe we can count on the provisions of the current CBA, in determining how much it might cost to keep Chandler. Apparently Carmelo wants both New York and a sign and trade so that he will not be stuck with the uncertainties of a new CBA. I could be wrong, but I beieve that our failure to extend Chandler will prevent us from extending until after July 1, 2011 when the current CBA will have expired and we may well be in lock-out mode.

I would really like to keep the players on the starting unit. Chandler has been really good and with the exception of his shooting, Gallo's game has improved. Fields and Gallo do not need the ball to play important roles. Chandler does everything. Although I remain a Gallo fan, right now Chandler is plainly the more valuable. Denver is going to want Chandler. He is a better replacement for Melo than Gallo.
 

la2ny

Starter
You are a beast dude 5 star thread.

I actually stated that several times in the other threads but it kept getting over shadowed by everyone having panic attacks about possibly loosing Gallo and fields or chandler and fields
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
You are a beast dude 5 star thread.

I actually stated that several times in the other threads but it kept getting over shadowed by everyone having panic attacks about possibly loosing Gallo and fields or chandler and fields

Thanks bro.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Here an interesting question:

What are the chances that M. Gasol or another decent center would sign with the Knicks for the mid level exception?

I look at what Artest did in LA and think the chances are high considering a core of Felton, Melo, Chandler, Gallo and Stat are pretty damn attractive! The mid level would not be that much lower then what a M.Gasol caliber center will command and the idea of being part of a NYC championship team may attract players to the point they forgoe a bit of salary for a chance at history.

Imagine:

Felton
Fields
Melo
STAT
M. Gasol

With Chandler and Gallo coming off the bench. I honestly don't think it's too far fetched!
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
You are a beast dude 5 star thread.

I actually stated that several times in the other threads but it kept getting over shadowed by everyone having panic attacks about possibly loosing Gallo and fields or chandler and fields

Oh BTW, I gave you a rep point for your impeccable taste! :cool:

Sharing is caring so spread the love!
 

iSaYughh

Starter
Well, that about does it. If we trade for Melo and that is the linchpin in retaining Chandler, as well, and inflating our cap bubble, it's clear what is priority #1.

The real question is then whether this increases DEN's "leverage" enough to where we have to give up Gallo or Fields. It increases DEN's leverage indirectly: we now have more urgency and need to make the trade.

Even if we accept losing Chandler, and steam ahead to just get Melo for 5cents to the dollar. Even if DEN stands pat out of spite, and we bank on signing him as a FA, thereby losing Chandler, it's not horrible.

Why:

We can sign and trade, or simply trade Chandler.

We maintain both Gallo and Fields.

We still will have cap to sign somebody; possibly a big body like Glenn Davis, which will be the more pressing positional need (versus even a versatile guy like Chandler).
 

iSaYughh

Starter
Here an interesting question:

What are the chances that M. Gasol or another decent center would sign with the Knicks for the mid level exception?

I look at what Artest did in LA and think the chances are high considering a core of Felton, Melo, Chandler, Gallo and Stat are pretty damn attractive! The mid level would not be that much lower then what a M.Gasol caliber center will command and the idea of being part of a NYC championship team may attract players to the point they forgoe a bit of salary for a chance at history.

Imagine:

Felton
Fields
Melo
STAT
M. Gasol

With Chandler and Gallo coming off the bench. I honestly don't think it's too far fetched!

That's the holy grail lineup.

Seems tough, though:

DEN needs to still take 5cents to the dollar on a trade, despite our apparent need/desire to make the trade so we can keep Wilson

And M.Gasol needs to take a MLE.

The latter I see as being real tough; look at what Brendan Haywood got....

I was trying to think of teams who have the cap and need to overpay a starting C, though, and it DID look good for us. Plus, NYC would be a nice place for a guy with his background; plus, playing for a fun, upward trending championship squad...

M.Gasol tho just seem in a difference financial class than Haslem/Miller as a legit starting center who is YOUNG (Haslem is an older bigman, and he was also a MIA diehard already and good friend of Wade).

If we accepted losing Chandler, by melting or trading; could we offer a M.Gasol more loot? Or is that MLE and the free range we have there, contingent upon keeping Chandler for the ~4.5M and using his Bird Rights?
 

la2ny

Starter
That's the holy grail lineup.

Seems tough, though:

DEN needs to still take 5cents to the dollar on a trade, despite our apparent need/desire to make the trade so we can keep Wilson

And M.Gasol needs to take a MLE.

The latter I see as being real tough; look at what Brendan Haywood got....

I was trying to think of teams who have the cap and need to overpay a starting C, though, and it DID look good for us. Plus, NYC would be a nice place for a guy with his background; plus, playing for a fun, upward trending championship squad...

M.Gasol tho just seem in a difference financial class than Haslem/Miller as a legit starting center who is YOUNG (Haslem is an older bigman, and he was also a MIA diehard already and good friend of Wade).

If we accepted losing Chandler, by melting or trading; could we offer a M.Gasol more loot? Or is that MLE and the free range we have there, contingent upon keeping Chandler for the ~4.5M and using his Bird Rights?
Gasol would have to bank on the 5 mill per year mle.

After Melo there wont be anything till 12' so its either pry away Melo and keep Will or get Melo and let Will go

Edit: all this does hinge upon the next cba. though idt the owners want to lose that as it helps if your a contender or potential contender and are over the cap
 
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