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Thread: what does the bible really teach?

  1. #91
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    The bible can't even agree whether or not there were witnesses. Each book has a different account. Who was there, how many people, if the tomb was empty, the time of day, etc. You would think there would have been some consistency with the most important day in christianity. Can't even get that straight.

    If the book was to lead people to god, wouldn't giving false information make it seem less credible? Give something not known at the time that would have helped people would have brought more people to god than perpetuating ignorance.

    For example, telling people disease is from tiny creatures too small to see (bacteria) instead of saying disease comes from demons, as Jesus did, and just giving simple information about washing hands and sterilizing could prevent diseases from spreading.

    Doing this could have saved millions of lives at the time and advanced human knowledge by generations. Spreading knowledge that would have actually helped human society instead of perpetuating ignorance and easily avoidable death.

    Wouldn't doing this have been more convincing to not only people at that time, but also people of today, and have been more successful at bringing them to god? Much more convicing than stories of miracles that every human invented god known to man had performed.

    Giving knowledge that helped humans instead of spreading ignorance that hurt people would have brought more people to god. And if the bible's purpose was to bring people to god, then it f*cked up big time in that department. I don't know, you would think god would have seen this. Being all knowing, all seeing and all powerful.

    Jesus calling disease demons, and whales fish, and talking about a man living inside a fish, or Noah's Arc just proves he was nothing more than a human being living 2000 years ago. Nothing more.
    Im not speaking of the tomb raising. Im speaking of him taking human form of dif people. For instance, once he appeared as a farmer. Then to thomas he appeared as himself with the piercings, because he said he would not believe otherwise. What human could do that?

    God gave hygiene instructions to the isrealites in leviticus. Long before Jesus. The deseases u speak of must have been invoked by demonic possession or some sort for Jesus to say such. Please site the scripture.

    Bottom line is, the bible is not a science book. So u looking for it to lead u down that path is like me trying to find Jehovah in science weekly.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Im not speaking of the tomb raising. Im speaking of him taking human form of dif people. For instance, once he appeared as a farmer. Then to thomas he appeared as himself with the piercings, because he said he would not believe otherwise. What human could do that?

    God gave hygiene instructions to the isrealites in leviticus. Long before Jesus. The deseases u speak of must have been invoked by demonic possession or some sort for Jesus to say such. Please site the scripture.

    Bottom line is, the bible is not a science book. So u looking for it to lead u down that path is like me trying to find Jehovah in science weekly.

    The same Leviticus that said don't eat rabbits because they are unclean because they chew their cud? SMH.

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    I think I read somewhere this has been observed. Tho I will research it thoroughly. And I remember one time I said science can't explain why we grow old and die, due to our regemerative powers. You scoffed at that, but there is a whole section of science dedicated to that research, correct?

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Ive already answered that. Perfection does not need to be mentioned here, because that is not the reason JW are biblically considered True Christians. They are such because as a whole, they live to do Gods will unlike any other group on earth.

    Some in individuals have engaged in misconduct, which have brought them consequences.

    As a whole, no other group followed biblical guidliness they way jw do.
    So, if perfection is not the measure for your organization, and you admit your organization has made false predictions and taught false doctrine: "old light," how can you justify calling other Christians false, simply on the basis of their teachings (which, using JW jargon, could simply be called old light or new light)?

    Huge double standard!

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    So, if perfection is not the measure for your organization, and you admit your organization has made false predictions and taught false doctrine: "old light," how can you justify calling other Christians false, simply on the basis of their teachings (which, using JW jargon, could simply be called old light or new light)?

    Huge double standard!
    Because they teach things such as:
    hell fire
    the Trinity
    All Good go to heaven
    Saved by grace (once saved, always saved)
    Homosexuality is ok

    And so on. Things completely unscriptural.

    Jw never claimed to be prophets, even when saying the world will end at date X. Also, it did not affect their worship. They stood by sound biblical teachings, even when wrong abt date XYZ. While the "false predictions" as you say do not make JW look good, the basis of Christianity is LIVING ACCORDING TO GOD'S WILL. Jesus did say thosr "Doing the will of my Father will" inherit the Kingdom, correct?

    Well I ask you again, according to Bible standards, who does Gods will more so than JW?

    Still waiting..................

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    I think I read somewhere this has been observed. Tho I will research it thoroughly. And I remember one time I said science can't explain why we grow old and die, due to our regemerative powers. You scoffed at that, but there is a whole section of science dedicated to that research, correct?
    First of all, nice dodge. This has nothing to do with the fact that the bible, and Jesus, were no more knowledeable than any other human being at that time period. In fact, they spread ignorance. If the bible's purpose was to bring people to god, it did a ****ty job. If the bible doesn't care about science, the bible shouldn't pretend to know things and misguide people. Kind of takes away its credibility and convincing power. Don't you think? Seems like god would have known this. Major f*ck up for an all knowing, all seeing, all powerful being.

    Secondly. I already explained why we die. It's called the Hayflick limit. After about 50 divisions, a cell dies and can no longer reproduce.

    There is a short tag of DNA stuck on the tips of a cell's chromosome, called a telomere. This telomere provides a place for the cell's DNA-copying machinery to latch onto the chromosome when the time comes each generation for the chromosomal DNA to be copied into daughter chromosomes.

    Every time the cell copies itself, the short bit of the telomere is not copied, so the telomere gets a little shorter each time the cell divides. When the telomere reaches a minimal length after some 50 divisions, the cell can no longer replicate its DNA and therefore cannot replicate itself, and therefore dies.

    As I mentioned, the aging process is simply cells dieing at a faster rate than they reproduce. As we get older, the less cells reproduce because more cells reach the Hayflick limit as time passes. But I guess you wanted all the facts in order to make a decision, huh? Yeah right. SMH.

  7. #97
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Because they teach things such as:
    hell fire
    the Trinity
    All Good go to heaven
    Saved by grace (once saved, always saved)
    Homosexuality is ok

    And so on. Things completely unscriptural.

    Jw never claimed to be prophets, even when saying the world will end at date X. Also, it did not affect their worship. They stood by sound biblical teachings, even when wrong abt date XYZ. While the "false predictions" as you say do not make JW look good, the basis of Christianity is LIVING ACCORDING TO GOD'S WILL. Jesus did say thosr "Doing the will of my Father will" inherit the Kingdom, correct?

    Well I ask you again, according to Bible standards, who does Gods will more so than JW?

    Still waiting..................
    Actually JW's do claim to be God's exclusive channel on earth, "God's visible organization," God's "faithful and discreet slave." As an organization is made up of individuals, you cannot separate what an individual does from what the organization to which he or she belongs. It may make the organization a bit of a haven to perverts, when a guy that belongs rapes children, rather than an official pervert's organization, but it is nonetheless becomes what its members are.

    As you stated prior, quoting from the bible, a good tree is known by its fruits.

    As for doctrine, teachings like the trinity, salvation by grace (which means everything is given: love, faith, works, all, by God, not what you describe), accepting LGBT people, etc., this can also be backed up by scripture.

    The bible is a complex document, and Christians, of all backgrounds, can usually back up their doctrine with scripture.

    And so... although, in your loaded question, you want ONE right religion, I say there is no such thing. People have many religious books, teachers, figures, etc., and, without any hard evidence, our hearts should be softened to, and respect, differences.

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    Lol LJ, you sound ignorant, saying Jesus spread ignorance! Even by most athiests standards, he is the most well meaning human in history! What he means to spread, you ignore because you want God to come visit you face to face. Meanwhile, they still aint found ya people yet! But you riding just fine without seeing them.

    Here is an article I read, but not the on I was looking for. When I find it, I will post it.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Why does it say things like this?
    "The ageing process is poorly understood, but scientists know it is caused by many factors. Highly reactive particles called free radicals are made naturally in the body and cause damage to cells, while smoking, ultraviolet light and other environmental factors contribute to ageing.

    If its poorly understood, how can we claim to have accurate knowledge?

  9. #99
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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Actually JW's do claim to be God's exclusive channel on earth, "God's visible organization," God's "faithful and discreet slave." As an organization is made up of individuals, you cannot separate what an individual does from what the organization to which he or she belongs. It may make the organization a bit of a haven to perverts, when a guy that belongs rapes children, rather than an official pervert's organization, but it is nonetheless becomes what its members are.

    As you stated prior, quoting from the bible, a good tree is known by its fruits.

    As for doctrine, teachings like the trinity, salvation by grace (which means everything is given: love, faith, works, all, by God, not what you describe), accepting LGBT people, etc., this can also be backed up by scripture.

    The bible is a complex document, and Christians, of all backgrounds, can usually back up their doctrine with scripture.

    And so... although, in your loaded question, you want ONE right religion, I say there is no such thing. People have many religious books, teachers, figures, etc., and, without any hard evidence, our hearts should be softened to, and respect, differences.
    Yes, one persons example can make the lot look bad. However, what you're leaving out is that we are individually witnesses to Jehovah. When Jehovah decreed Satan and his angels to be tossed from heaven, he tossed those individuals who broke his laws only. Those who didn't, remained in heaven due to their faithfulness.

    Same applies to humans. Those who break Gods laws, will be expelled from the organization, one way or another. Yes we are a group, but we alll have our seperate accounting to God. He won't deny those who deserve life their reward because 10 people broke his laws. Thats unjust. Just as saying all catholic priests are pedophiles.


    So u r wrong. As a whole, jw are God's people, regardless of the few who perpetrate, because the whole is greater than the sum, so long as they are properly serving God.

    Other Christian faiths cannot say so, not because they are not capable, but because they are not properly bring taught whats acceptable to God.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Lol LJ, you sound ignorant, saying Jesus spread ignorance! Even by most athiests standards, he is the most well meaning human in history! What he means to spread, you ignore because you want God to come visit you face to face. Meanwhile, they still aint found ya people yet! But you riding just fine without seeing them.

    Here is an article I read, but not the on I was looking for. When I find it, I will post it.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Why does it say things like this?
    "The ageing process is poorly understood, but scientists know it is caused by many factors. Highly reactive particles called free radicals are made naturally in the body and cause damage to cells, while smoking, ultraviolet light and other environmental factors contribute to ageing.

    If its poorly understood, how can we claim to have accurate knowledge?
    There's that silly argument again. We don't know everything therefore we don't know anything. You always revert to that and change the subject when backed into a corner. You are a child. Good day to you.

  11. #101
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Yes, one persons example can make the lot look bad. However, what you're leaving out is that we are individually witnesses to Jehovah. When Jehovah decreed Satan and his angels to be tossed from heaven, he tossed those individuals who broke his laws only. Those who didn't, remained in heaven due to their faithfulness.

    Same applies to humans. Those who break Gods laws, will be expelled from the organization, one way or another. Yes we are a group, but we alll have our seperate accounting to God. He won't deny those who deserve life their reward because 10 people broke his laws. Thats unjust. Just as saying all catholic priests are pedophiles.


    So u r wrong. As a whole, jw are God's people, regardless of the few who perpetrate, because the whole is greater than the sum, so long as they are properly serving God.

    Other Christian faiths cannot say so, not because they are not capable, but because they are not properly bring taught whats acceptable to God.
    No, one person's behavior is your organization. If that person constitutes .1% of your organization, your organization is .1% what that person is, especially if you call yourself a certain type of people: God's people, in this case. Your whole identity is wrapped up in the kind of people you are.

    And, so you are God's people because you say you are. If you make mistakes (with predictions, pedophile elders, etc.), you are still God's people. Others are not, because they make mistakes: trinity, abusive priests, etc. Heard it all before at the KH.

    Double standard, circular reasoning!

    The only way out is to respect everyone and their understanding to something greater than themselves, which is something that does not come from getting your JW, or any other, membership card.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    There's that silly argument again. We don't know everything therefore we don't know anything. You always revert to that and change the subject when backed into a corner. You are a child. Good day to you.
    Lol! U mad at me cuz the article said it is poorly understood?

    I get that its a small begining. And what is known, could very well be accurate to the degree of understanding. However, what is now unknown may severely change what is currently thought of as accurate understanding. At best, we should say the jury jas out on this one.

    Dont be mad man, it's a good discussion. U tell me to do research, then when I do, u get mad.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    No, one person's behavior is your organization. If that person constitutes .1% of your organization, your organization is .1% what that person is, especially if you call yourself a certain type of people: God's people, in this case. Your whole identity is wrapped up in the kind of people you are.

    And, so you are God's people because you say you are. If you make mistakes (with predictions, pedophile elders, etc.), you are still God's people. Others are not, because they make mistakes: trinity, abusive priests, etc. Heard it all before at the KH.

    Double standard, circular reasoning!

    The only way out is to respect everyone and their understanding to something greater than themselves, which is something that does not come from getting your JW, or any other, membership card.
    I forget, you are a modern day Socrates. Sorry, according to God, u are wrong. But the world sure loves your philosophical vp!

    By the way, jw respect people for being themselves, just because don't agree does not constitute lack of respect.

  14. #104
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Jesus said in Mathew 7:21
    “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.

    Find another group of Christians that adhere to doing Jesus' Fathers will, and you have found the "True Christians"

    Oh, don't worry, smary guy, I'll wait!
    The Jehovah's Witnesses claim the governing body is "God's Channel." So why does "God's channel" make so many false predictions? 1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, 1994?

    Is God lying to the governing body on purpose?

    Let me guess, the governing body are imperfect men?

    You're guilty of contradiction #1.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Ive already answered that. Perfection does not need to be mentioned here, because that is not the reason JW are biblically considered True Christians. They are such because as a whole, they live to do Gods will unlike any other group on earth.

    Some in individuals have engaged in misconduct, which have brought them consequences.

    As a whole, no other group followed biblical guidliness they way jw do.
    Study your religion's history, and you will see that Charles Taze Russell modeled all of his beliefs after the Seventh-Day Adventists.

    But the Watchtower Society forbids its members from researching, because the internet is controlled by "Satan." So I doubt you'll do such a thing.

    And why is it that Jehovah's Witnesses always mention in their Watchtower publications that they are the only true Christians?

    If you're God's chosen people, why do you have to prove that to anyone?

    Is it because your organization doubts itself after making 10 failed Armageddon predictions? Possibly.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Like I said earlier, you find a more faithful, united group of Christians, who adhere to the bible than JW, then u have a case. Otherwise it's pointless to try and demean them.
    That's why a woman was asked by the Jehovah's Witnesses if there was something in the Watchtower that contradicted the Bible, would she choose the Magazine or the Bible. She said she'd choose the Bible and got disfellowshipped.

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    You're guilty of contradiction #4.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    4. Jehovah's Witnesses claim they do not support judging others:
    "Jesus said that we should not be judging one another."
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    Yet in their April 15, 2008 study edition of their Watchtower Magazine, it says the following: "Another example of valueless words is found among the leaders of Christendom. Those claim to speak in God's name, but most of their utterances are not based on the Scriptures, and what they are saying is basically worthless. In other words, the governing body believes what the other denominations (Catholics, SDA's, Mormons, Baptists, Pentecostals) have to say is worthless.
    The April 15, 2008 study edition of the Watchtower Magazine goes on to say: "Apostates too speak valuless words."

    1. The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the "only true Christians" and
    "the only right religion." They even believe all other non-witnesses and religions are under the power of Satan. Yet, at the same time, when you point out their failed predictions & their child molestation incidents, they claim to not be perfect.
    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    I forget, you are a modern day Socrates. Sorry, according to God, u are wrong. But the world sure loves your philosophical vp!

    By the way, jw respect people for being themselves, just because don't agree does not constitute lack of respect.
    That's why Witnesses refer to the words of others as "valueless" and "worthless." And they call all non-Witness denominations "apostate Christianity."

    Contradiction #4.

    P.S.-If Apostates are trying to create their own religions like the JWs claim, what are the names of these new religions?

    Why hasn't anyone heard of them?

    Did God lie to the governing body and tell him to teach that to his members?
    Last edited by abcd; Jan 19, 2011 at 17:58.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Lol! U mad at me cuz the article said it is poorly understood?

    I get that its a small begining. And what is known, could very well be accurate to the degree of understanding. However, what is now unknown may severely change what is currently thought of as accurate understanding. At best, we should say the jury jas out on this one.

    Dont be mad man, it's a good discussion. U tell me to do research, then when I do, u get mad.
    It's laughable you claiming researching anything. You never want to truly know the facts.

    You didn't even research the subject. You found one artccle that said the aging process is poorly understood. Did you even read the article in it's entirety? Saying the aging process is poorly understood doesn't mean we don't know why we age and die. I already explained that. We know it well. The article is about reversing the aging process. Essentially stopping the telomeres from slowly deteriorating. Which we've done with stem cells. Did you research that too? No. This is what you do. Make false statements, then when confronted, resort to "imperfect science doesn't know everything so therefore they don't know anything, therefore I reject all evidence".

    And why bring this up? It wasn't part of the debate in the first place. Jesus was a human being that lived 2000 years ago and only had the knowledge of people that lived 2000 years ago. Nothing more. The bible was written by ancient people that only had the knowledge of ancient people. Hence why the bible is scientifically innaccurate and Jesus thought whales were fish, people can live in the bellies of fish, diseases were cause by demons and didn't know Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark are impossible.

    Einstein, and every educated person living today, has more knowledge than Jesus ever had. It is obvious Jesus was nothing more than a man living 2000 years ago with Bi-polar I disorder.

    You always make false statements (e.g. bible is scientifically accurate, bible is perfect, we haven't discovered the "missing link). I provide evidence to the contrary on every false statement you make. You say "imperfect science doesn't know everything so therefore they don't know anything, therefore I reject all evidence".

    You will then go on, knocking on people's doors saying the bible is perfect, the bible is scientifically accurate, the missing link has not been discovered, we don't know why we age, etc, etc. All the while knowingly telling lies to yourself and others to make you feel better about yourself. Because we all know this has nothing to do with you trying to save people from god or bring people closer to god.

    Einstein was right. You do live in a poor way.

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