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Thread: what does the bible really teach?

  1. #151
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    Default Chapter 7

    Real Hope for Your Loved Ones Who Have Died

    How do we know that the resurrection will really happen?
    How does Jehovah feel about resurrecting the dead?
    Who will be resurrected?

    IMAGINE that you are running away from a vicious enemy. He is much stronger and faster than you are. You know that he is merciless because you have seen him kill some of your friends. No matter how hard you try to outrun him, he keeps getting closer. There seems to be no hope. Suddenly, though, a rescuer appears at your side. He is far more powerful than your enemy, and he promises to help you. How relieved that makes you feel!

    2 In a sense, you are being pursued by such an enemy. All of us are. As we learned in the preceding chapter, the Bible calls death an enemy. None of us can outrun it or fight it off. Most of us have seen this enemy claim the lives of people dear to us. But Jehovah is far more powerful than death. He is the loving Rescuer who has already shown that he can defeat this enemy. And he promises to destroy this enemy, death, once and for all. The Bible teaches: “As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.” (1*Corinthians 15:26) That is good news!

    3 Let us take a brief look at how the enemy death affects us when it strikes. Doing this will help us to appreciate something that will make us happy. You see, Jehovah promises that the dead will live again. (Isaiah 26:19) They will be brought back to life. That is the hope of the resurrection.

    WHEN A LOVED ONE DIES
    4 Have you lost a loved one in death? The pain, the grief, and the feelings of helplessness can seem unbearable. At such times, we need to go to God’s Word for comfort. (2*Corinthians 1:3,*4) The Bible helps us to understand how Jehovah and Jesus feel about death. Jesus, who perfectly reflected his Father, knew the pain of losing someone in death. (John 14:9) When he was in Jerusalem, Jesus used to visit Lazarus and his sisters, Mary and Martha, who lived in the nearby town of Bethany. They became close friends. The Bible says: “Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.” (John 11:5) As we learned in the preceding chapter, though, Lazarus died.

    5 How did Jesus feel about losing his friend? The account tells us that Jesus joined Lazarus’ relatives and friends as they grieved over this loss. Seeing them, Jesus was deeply moved. He “groaned in the spirit and became troubled.” Then, the account says, “Jesus gave way to tears.” (John 11:33,*35) Did Jesus’ grief mean that he had no hope? Not at all. In fact, Jesus knew that something wonderful was about to happen. (John 11:3,*4) Still, he felt the pain and sorrow that death brings.

    6 In a way, Jesus’ grief is encouraging to us. It teaches us that Jesus and his Father, Jehovah, hate death. But Jehovah God is able to fight and overcome that enemy! Let us see what God enabled Jesus to do.

    “LAZARUS, COME ON OUT!”
    7 Lazarus had been buried in a cave, and Jesus asked that the stone sealing its entrance be taken away. Martha objected because after four days, Lazarus’ body must have begun to decay. (John 11:39) From a human standpoint, what hope was there?

    8 The stone was rolled away, and Jesus cried out with a loud voice: “Lazarus, come on out!” What happened? “The man that had been dead came out.” (John 11:43,*44) Can you imagine the joy of the people there? Whether Lazarus was their brother, relative, friend, or neighbor, they knew that he had died. Yet, here he was—the same dear man—standing among them again. That must have seemed too good to be true. Many no doubt embraced Lazarus joyfully. What a victory over death!
    The resurrection of Lazarus resulted in great joy.—John 11:38-44

    9 Jesus did not claim to perform this amazing miracle on his own. In his prayer just before calling out to Lazarus, he made it clear that Jehovah was the Source of the resurrection. (John 11:41,*42) This was not the only time that Jehovah used his power in this way. The resurrection of Lazarus is just one of nine miracles of this kind recorded in God’s Word.* To read and study these accounts is a delight. They teach us that God is not partial, for the resurrected ones include young and old, male and female, Israelite and non-Israelite. And what joy is described in these passages! For example, when Jesus raised a young girl from the dead, her parents “were beside themselves with great ecstasy.” (Mark 5:42) Yes, Jehovah had given them a cause for joy that they would never forget.

    10 Of course, those resurrected by Jesus eventually died again. Does this mean that it was pointless to resurrect them? Not at all. These Bible accounts confirm important truths and give us hope.

    LEARNING FROM THE RESURRECTION ACCOUNTS
    Elijah resurrected a widow’s son.—1*Kings 17:17-24
    11 The Bible teaches that the dead “are conscious of nothing at all.” They are not alive and have no conscious existence anywhere. The account of Lazarus confirms this. Upon returning to life, did Lazarus thrill people with descriptions of heaven? Or did he terrify them with horrible tales about a burning hell? No. The Bible contains no such words from Lazarus. During the four days that he was dead, he had been “conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Lazarus had simply been sleeping in death.—John 11:11.

    12 The account of Lazarus also teaches us that the resurrection is a reality, not a mere myth. Jesus raised Lazarus in front of a crowd of eyewitnesses. Even the religious leaders, who hated Jesus, did not deny this miracle. Rather, they said: “What are we to do, because this man [Jesus] performs many signs?” (John 11:47) Many people went to see the resurrected man. As a result, even more of them put faith in Jesus. They saw in Lazarus living proof that Jesus was sent by God. This evidence was so powerful that some of the hardhearted Jewish religious leaders planned to kill both Jesus and Lazarus.—John 11:53; 12:9-11.
    The apostle Peter resurrected the Christian woman Dorcas.—Acts 9:36-42

    13 Is it unrealistic to accept the resurrection as a fact? No, for Jesus taught that someday “all those in the memorial tombs” will be resurrected. (John 5:28) Jehovah is the Creator of all life. Should it be hard to believe that he can re-create life? Of course, much would depend on Jehovah’s memory. Can he remember our dead loved ones? Countless trillions of stars fill the universe, yet God gives the name of each one! (Isaiah 40:26) So Jehovah God can remember our dead loved ones in every detail, and he is ready to restore them to life.

    14 How, though, does Jehovah feel about resurrecting the dead? The Bible teaches that he is eager to raise the dead. The faithful man Job asked: “If an able-bodied man dies can he live again?” Job was speaking about waiting in the grave until the time came for God to remember him. He said to Jehovah: “You will call, and I myself shall answer you. For the work of your hands you will have a yearning.”—Job 14:13-15.

    15 Just think! Jehovah actually yearns to bring the dead back to life. Is it not heartwarming to learn that Jehovah feels that way? But what about this future resurrection? Who will be resurrected, and where?

    “ALL THOSE IN THE MEMORIAL TOMBS”
    16 The Bible’s resurrection accounts teach us much about the resurrection to come. People who were restored to life right here on earth were reunited with their loved ones. The future resurrection will be similar—but much better. As we learned in Chapter*3, God’s purpose is that the whole earth be made into a paradise. So the dead will not be raised to life in a world filled with war, crime, and sickness. They will have an opportunity to live forever on this earth in peaceful and happy conditions.

    17 Who will be resurrected? Jesus said that “all those in the memorial tombs will hear his [Jesus’] voice and come out.” (John 5:28,*29) Similarly, Revelation 20:13 says: “The sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up those dead in them.” “Hades” refers to the common grave of mankind. (See the Appendix.) This collective grave will be emptied. All those billions who rest there will live again. The apostle Paul said: “There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15) What does that mean?

    18 “The righteous” include many of the people we read about in the Bible who lived before Jesus came to the earth. You might think of Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Moses, Ruth, Esther, and many others. Some of these men and women of faith are discussed in the 11th chapter of Hebrews. But “the righteous” also include Jehovah’s servants who die in our time. Thanks to the resurrection hope, we may be freed from any dread of dying.—Hebrews 2:15.
    In Paradise, the dead will rise and be reunited with their loved ones

    19 What about all the people who did not serve or obey Jehovah because they never knew about him? These billions of “unrighteous” ones will not be forgotten. They too will be resurrected and given time to learn about the true God and to serve him. During a period of a thousand years, the dead will be resurrected and given an opportunity to join faithful humans on earth in serving Jehovah. It will be a wonderful time. This period is what the Bible refers to as Judgment Day.#

    20 Does this mean that every human who ever lived will be resurrected? No. The Bible says that some of the dead are in “Gehenna.” (Luke 12:5) Gehenna got its name from a garbage dump located outside of ancient Jerusalem. Dead bodies and garbage were burned there. The dead whose bodies were thrown there were considered by the Jews to be unworthy of a burial and a resurrection. So Gehenna is a fitting symbol of everlasting destruction. Although Jesus will have a role in judging the living and the dead, Jehovah is the final Judge. (Acts 10:42) He will never resurrect those whom he judges to be wicked and unwilling to change.

    THE HEAVENLY RESURRECTION
    21 The Bible also refers to another kind of resurrection, one to life as a spirit creature in heaven. Only one example of this type of resurrection is recorded in the Bible, that of Jesus Christ.

    22 After Jesus was put to death as a human, Jehovah did not allow His faithful Son to remain in the grave. (Psalm 16:10; Acts 13:34,*35) God resurrected Jesus, but not as a human. The apostle Peter explains that Christ was “put to death in the flesh, but .*.*. made alive in the spirit.” (1*Peter 3:18) This truly was a great miracle. Jesus was alive again as a mighty spirit person! (1*Corinthians 15:3-6) Jesus was the first ever to receive this glorious type of resurrection. (John 3:13) But he would not be the last.

    23 Knowing that he would soon return to heaven, Jesus told his faithful followers that he would “prepare a place” for them there. (John 14:2) Jesus referred to those going to heaven as his “little flock.” (Luke 12:32) How many are to be in this relatively small group of faithful Christians? According to Revelation 14:1, the apostle John says: “I saw, and, look! the Lamb [Jesus Christ] standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.”

    24 These 144,000 Christians, including Jesus’ faithful apostles, are raised to life in heaven. When does their resurrection take place? The apostle Paul wrote that it would occur during the time of Christ’s presence. (1*Corinthians 15:23) As you will learn in Chapter*9, we are now living in that time. So those few remaining ones of the 144,000 who die in our day are instantly resurrected to life in heaven. (1*Corinthians 15:51-55) The vast majority of mankind, however, have the prospect of being resurrected in the future to life in Paradise on earth.

    25 Yes, Jehovah really will defeat our enemy death, and it will be gone forever! (Isaiah 25:8) Yet, you may wonder, ‘What will those resurrected to heaven do there?’ They will form part of a marvelous Kingdom government in heaven. We will learn more about that government in the next chapter.

    ***The other accounts are found at 1*Kings 17:17-24; 2*Kings 4:32-37; 13:20,*21; Matthew 28:5-7; Luke 7:11-17; 8:40-56; Acts 9:36-42; and 20:7-12.
    #**For more information on Judgment Day and the basis for judgment, please see the Appendix.

    WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES
    The Bible’s resurrection accounts give us a sure hope.—John 11:39-44.
    Jehovah is eager to bring the dead back to life.—Job 14:13-15.
    All of those in the common grave of mankind will be resurrected.—John 5:28,*29.


    Study Questions
    1-3. What enemy pursues all of us, and why will considering what the Bible teaches bring us some relief?
    4. (a) Why does Jesus’ reaction to the death of a loved one teach us about Jehovah’s feelings? (b) Jesus developed what special friendship?
    5, 6. (a) How did Jesus respond when he was with Lazarus’ grieving family and friends? (b) Why is Jesus’ grief encouraging to us?
    7, 8. Why might the case of Lazarus have seemed hopeless to human onlookers, but what did Jesus do?
    9, 10. (a) How did Jesus reveal the Source of his power to resurrect Lazarus? (b) What are some of the benefits of reading the Bible’s resurrection accounts?
    11. How does the account of Lazarus’ resurrection help to confirm the truth recorded at Ecclesiastes 9:5?
    12. Why can we be sure that the resurrection of Lazarus really happened?
    13. What basis do we have for believing that Jehovah really can resurrect the dead?
    14, 15. As illustrated by what Job said, how does Jehovah feel about bringing the dead back to life?
    16. The dead will be resurrected to live in what kind of conditions?
    17. How extensive will the resurrection be?
    18. Who are included among “the righteous” who are to be resurrected, and how may this hope affect you personally?
    19. Who are “the unrighteous,” and what opportunity does Jehovah kindly give them?
    20. What is Gehenna, and who go there?
    21, 22. (a) What other kind of resurrection is there? (b) Who was the first ever to receive a resurrection to spirit life?
    23, 24. Who make up Jesus’ “little flock,” and how many will they number?
    25. What will be considered in the next chapter?

  2. #152
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Don't get me wrong.

    The Bible has a LOT of great ideas on life itself and they should be utilized in a positive way for humanity.

    But to close the BOOK on it and expect people to only follow and "obey" that book, but not be allowed to challenge those ideas or open new information that is helpful to humanity and the progression and advancement of mandkind is just against nature. IMO.

    If the bible was open to challenge, discussion and being proven wrong, then I would embrace it purely because I feel thats what it should be and they shouldnt take OFFENSE to that.

    THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SAYING.

    "I don't know".

    I am not a genius or the smartest guy in the world, I don't want to be. I rather continue to search for knowledge and keep my mind unlimited for information. It may not be the SAFEST feeling because I know people like to feel SAFE and when something new is presented you feel vunerlable. I see some people use things like religion, sports, political parties as social groups for safety and feel like they belong somewhere.

    I don't blame them. We live in a scary world and thats the OUTCOME of this scary environment.
    Great post! I definitely felt this was the way in which I was required to read the bible, by Christians who were focused on rules and control and not gaining a spiritual understanding. As such, I washed my hands of Christianity and read many Eastern texts, with a curiosity that is encouraged in the West.

    Many years later, I tried the bible again, as a spiritual but not religious person, and found the new testament provides a very beautiful message: unconditional love, peace, and a call for self-sacrifice. Many Christians cannot see this because their hearts and minds are hardened.

    When Gandhi, who often quoted the beatitudes (where Jesus says, "Blessed are the peacemakers," etc.), was asked why he quoted Jesus but did not become a follower of his, he said the following... “Oh, I don’t reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It’s just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

    PEACE

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    OG,

    Question? With your penchant to abhor rules, is it safe to say that you would have eaten from the tree?

  4. #154
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    OG,

    Question? With your penchant to abhor rules, is it safe to say that you would have eaten from the tree?
    I think that Christians have lost the mystical mindset one must have to understand, and benefit from, the bible. If you do not see that the bible is a document that is more than its words, you will always suffer from your involvement with it.

    The story of the tree of knowledge [of good and bad] represents a loss of innocence. It cautions us to treasure what we've been graced with by the universe, rather than allowing our hearts to be claimed by sensual pursuits.

    With that understanding, I must say that I, like every other human, am defeated by loss of faith in innocence, unfortunately partaking in this fruit. It takes a long time to completely conquer oneself, in peace and out of spiritual love.

    Those who try to conquer themselves, as a result of rules, attempt to do so with violence and anger, and truly do nothing but create an alternative self, when all the great teachers: The Buddha, Christ, Krishna, Mahavir, all called us to deny self.

    And so, your question is as applicable to you as it is to me. Probably more so, in your case (as you do not seem to deny self, which testifies against you).

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    I think that Christians have lost the mystical mindset one must have to understand, and benefit from, the bible. If you do not see that the bible is a document that is more than its words, you will always suffer from your involvement with it.

    The story of the tree of knowledge [of good and bad] represents a loss of innocence. It cautions us to treasure what we've been graced with by the universe, rather than allowing our hearts to be claimed by sensual pursuits.

    With that understanding, I must say that I, like every other human, am defeated by loss of faith in innocence, unfortunately partaking in this fruit. It takes a long time to completely conquer oneself, in peace and out of spiritual love.

    Those who try to conquer themselves, as a result of rules, attempt to do so with violence and anger, and truly do nothing but create an alternative self, when all the great teachers: The Buddha, Christ, Krishna, Mahavir, all called us to deny self.

    And so, your question is as applicable to you as it is to me. Probably more so, in your case (as you do not seem to deny self, which testifies against you).
    What happened at the Garden was blatant disregard for God.


    Any JW worth their salt, will tell you serving Jehovah is not about rules at all. In fact, Jehovah's rules as you put them, only benefit mankind if followed. Nothing he ask's of us is for his benefit. So following his rules should be a good thing. You make it appear bad. Wierd.

    And I'm not sure what I would have done. I tell myself I probably would have at least waited until God came to speak with me to bring up my concern. But that's easy to say now. When you say "christians follow rules" It makes it appear as if these instructions should in fact be ignored. Is it wise to ignore the counsel of God?

    And you never answered. Would you?
    Last edited by Knicks4lyfe; Feb 02, 2011 at 18:41.

  6. #156
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    What happened at the Garden was blatant disregard for God.


    Any JW worth their salt, will tell you serving Jehovah is not about rules at all. In fact, Jehovah's rules as you put them, only benefit mankind if followed. Nothing he ask's of us is for his benefit. So following his rules should be a good thing. You make it appear bad. Wierd.

    And I'm not sure what I would have done. I tell myself I probably would have at least waited until God came to speak with me to bring up my concern. But that's easy to say now. When you say "christians follow rules" It makes it appear as if these instructions should in fact be ignored. Is it wise to ignore the counsel of God?

    And you never answered. Would you?
    I think that the "Adam and Eve" story is a metaphor for human loss of innocence, which comes with complete and unconditional happiness, as a result of our pursuit of conditions that we believe will bring us happiness.

    It is a story meant to teach us that, by pursuing "happiness," we lose HAPPINESS. We become ambitious for more, thus losing what the divine gives us (i.e., grace).

    If I was stripped down to complete passivive-innocence (it not being the result of a concerted effort), only to be misled by "Satan," as Adam was in the story, I would likely have fallen for the temptation.

    As for witnesses and rules, I would never make a blanket-statement on witnesses, since I know many of them and have seen they are not all the same. Some witnesses follow witness doctrine "to the letter," in regard to following what I consider excessive rules on association, dress, grooming, etc., as well as thinking.

    Some do that for meetings and enjoy spirituality for the sake of the fruit/spirit of the words, not the words themselves (which, if not understood for the sake of their fruits, become a self-limited/imposed prison).
    • 1 Thessalonians Chapter 1:4 For we know, brothers and sisters[[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]] loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. 6 You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.
    • Colossians 2: 20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.
    • Hebrews 8: 13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
    • Hebrews 8: 7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
    • 2 Corinthians Chapter 3:You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    God Bless.
    Last edited by OGKnickfan; Feb 04, 2011 at 10:21.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    What happened at the Garden was blatant disregard for God.


    Any JW worth their salt, will tell you serving Jehovah is not about rules at all. In fact, Jehovah's rules as you put them, only benefit mankind if followed. Nothing he ask's of us is for his benefit. So following his rules should be a good thing. You make it appear bad. Wierd.

    And I'm not sure what I would have done. I tell myself I probably would have at least waited until God came to speak with me to bring up my concern. But that's easy to say now. When you say "christians follow rules" It makes it appear as if these instructions should in fact be ignored. Is it wise to ignore the counsel of God?

    And you never answered. Would you?
    I think the question you asked OG originally was a loaded question. I think it would have been better to just ask if he would have eaten the fruit. I hope my criticism is not offensive.

    The question I would ask is, have you ever or still eat the fruit?

    I did and still do.

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    Originally Posted by Blas
    I think the question you asked OG originally was a loaded question. I think it would have been better to just ask if he would have eaten the fruit. I hope my criticism is not offensive.

    The question I would ask is, have you ever or still eat the fruit?

    I did and still do.
    Ultimately, that was my question.

    You and I are born sinners. We cannot help but eat, or sin. Adam was perfect, and his intrinsic inclination would have made it as easy to obey God, as sin and imperfection make it easy for us to sin against God.

    He just chose to not follow the rule, which meant showing a lack of love.

    1 Corinthians 6:9
    9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men,

    My question is, if a person is trying to please God, is it fair to say that they should avoid the practice of these sins as a rule, out of love for God?

    I don't think we should look at what God expects of us as"rules" per say, to add a burden. After all, it only benefits us. However, the gist of it is that these are in fact guidelines, or rules, that God knows we can, and should live by, if we want to be deemed righteous by him.

    It is inescapable. We must obey God's guidelines to please him. And I'm not offended, bro, you expressed your opinion. Not mad at all abt that.
    Last edited by Knicks4lyfe; Feb 04, 2011 at 14:34.

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    We could be saying the same thing here, forgive me if I am misunderstanding.

    if a person is trying to please God, is it fair to say that they should avoid the practice of these sins as a rule, out of love for God?

    I think to please God, that person should go to God to ask God to help them avoid sin. Then give that glory to God when that person is able to avoid it.

  10. #160
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    What this is about, is not forth right lying, as the article states. It can however, be advantageous to be evasive at times. For instance, King David, while on the run from Saul, once had to hide out in enemy territory. He was recognized, and brought before the King, but proceeded to act like a crazy man, though he was not. It saved his life.

    Truly serving Jehovah transforms lives. You build a personal relationship with the most high, and you learn to teach others, so they can have that same thing. You get to share in the very same preaching work that Christ jesus started. What's bad about following Jesus Christ? He is quite simply the greatest man to ever live. In a landslide.

    JW are the most peaceful religious faction on earth. This is quite simply a well ignored fact by the world. But every other religious faction has people who fight in wars. Fact.
    You are clearly brainwashed.

    And this is not an insult by any means.

    An insult is something that isn't true.

    But the fact that you support the Jehovah's Witnesses practice of disowning family members, deaths from not getting blood tranfusions, and "being evasive" when it comes to telling the truth as you stated proves it.

    You're defending the Watchtower's support on lying and twisting the truth to others, in order to forward their religion?

    "Of course, being truthful does not mean that we are obligated to divulge all information to anyone who asks it of us."
    Awake 2000, page 21
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    As for the "peace" in the Jehovah's Witness organization, how do you explain the 1,000s of members who died and continue to die from the Watchtower's no blood policy?

    And how do you explain the Governing body admitting to being wrong about their blood policy, when they began allowing its members to receive "fractional blood" as of the year 2000?

    Let me guess, "new light?" More propaganda from the Watchtower Society.

    Let me guess, you have a bible quote that says "Jehovah does not forgive blood transfusions UNLESS it comes from fractional blood." There's no such quote.

    You're guilty of Theocratic Warfare AND contradiction #9.
    9. Jehovah's Witnesses are against blood transfusions, but as of 2000 support receiving and donating "fractional blood." Where's the quote where Jehovah says blood is bad, unless it's fractional? I do not know.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    According to the JW's history, they willingly accepted and donated blood until 1945


    You believe in a religion that got 99% of its original beliefs from
    Ellen G. White's Seventh-Day Adventists and William Miller's Millerite movement and yet claims to be the only true religion.

    That in itself is a contradiction, but the governing body teaches its members that anything me, LJ, OG, or any other non-Witness says is "worthless."
    "Another example of valueless words is found among the leaders of Christendom. Those claim to speak in God's name, but most of their utterances are not based on the Scriptures, and what they are saying is basically worthless.
    The April 15, 2008 study edition of the Watchtower Magazine goes on to say: "Apostates too speak valuless words."

    I hope the Watchtower Society improves its treatment of its members, but I doubt that would ever happen.

    People in the Jehovah's Witnesses will continue to die from the no blood transfusion policy, continue to put propaganda that shows Catholic priests with Bibles in one hand and guns on the other in their Awake Magazines, and members will continue to have to cover up whatever the Watchtower Society does to prevent "reproach."

    P.S.-More peace from the Jehovah's Witnesses.
    1. The Watchtower Society covering up hundreds of child molestation cases
    AND EVEN DISFELLOWSHIPPING/EX-COMMUNICATING members for reporting their molestations to the police.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    2. According to the Watchtower and Awake Magazines, a woman who is raped but does not "scream" or "resist enough" is a sinner and has committed fornication or adultery.
    Watchtower 1964 January 15 pp.63-4 Questions from Readers
    "Such Scriptural precedents are applicable to Christians, who are under command, "Flee from fornication." (1 Cor. 6:18) Thus if a Christian woman does not cry out and does not put forth every effort to flee, she would be viewed as consenting to the violation."

    "Even in the sad case where a woman is overpowered and raped, her struggle and screaming for help is not in vain. On the contrary, it establishes that she did all she possibly could to resist her attacker..."
    Watchtower 2003 February 1

    So, if you get raped, you had better scream or strongly resist. Because if you for whatever reason happen to be drugged by the rapist or have a gun or knife to your head, you will be viewed as a sinner AND you will end up like the woman in this video: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    What will the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses say about this? We're imperfect men.
    Yet when another religious group does something wrong, the Watchtower Society is the first to post propaganda in their Watchtower and Awake Magazines. IE, the picture of the Catholic priest with a gun in his hand on the January 2011 Awake magazine. But I'm sure priests normally do walk around with guns in their hands, so I guess that isn't propaganda after all.

    But contradiction #1 explains this perfectly.
    1. The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the "only true Christians" and "the only right religion." They even believe all other non-witnesses and religions are under the power of Satan. Yet, at the same time, when you point out their failed predictions & their child molestation incidents, they claim to not be perfect.

    3. A Russian court has fined a woman for rejecting doctors’ advice to allow her five-year-old son to have a blood transfusion. Her decision resulted in the boy’s death in hospital. The verdict is the first such precedent in the country.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    A JEHOVAH’S Witness who refused a blood transfusion in hospital had a 98pc chance of surviving the bleed that killed herif she had been given the procedure, an inquest was told yesterday.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    "Someone in my sister's congregation (perhaps an elder) found a doctor 3-1/2 hours away who would perform bloodless surgery. Time was crucial and she was in a weakened state already. She went through the surgery with minimal loss of blood, however the following day she had cardiogenic shock and lapsed into a coma and died shortly thereafter.
    I don't think I'll ever get over what TURMOIL the J.W. BELIEFS HAVE CAUSED MY FAMILY...AND ESPECIALLY THE ISOLATION MY SISTER HAD FROM US. We didn't isolate her...her beliefs kept her from a relationship with her family for many, many years.
    At her memorial service in the congregation where she attended...there was not one J.W. to speak PERSONALLY to any non-witness family member."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    "You cannot allow them to give your child blood![Jehovah's Witness Elders]."

    Without further discussion, I asked them to leave, stating that we could not allow our child to die in this way. "If this is the God I serve, I am through with Him[father]." The elders left the hospital upset with me that I would not submit to them. "I hope," one elder even said, "she gets hepatitis from that blood, just to prove that it's bad!"
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Last edited by abcd; Feb 05, 2011 at 23:20.

  11. #161
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    Default Chapter *

    What is God's Kingdom?

    What does the Bible tell us about the Kingdom of God?
    What will God’s Kingdom do?
    When will the Kingdom cause God’s will to be done on earth?



    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] of people worldwide are familiar with the prayer that many call the Our Father, or the Lord’s Prayer. Both expressions refer to a famous prayer given as a model by Jesus Christ himself. It is a very meaningful prayer, and a consideration of its first three petitions will help you to learn more about what the Bible really teaches.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] At the beginning of this model prayer, Jesus instructed his hearers: “You must pray, then, this way: ‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.’” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) What is the significance of these three petitions?

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] We have already learned a lot about God’s name, Jehovah. And to some extent we have discussed God’s will—what he has done and will yet do for mankind. To what, though, was Jesus referring when he told us to pray: “Let your kingdom come”? What is God’s Kingdom? How will its coming sanctify God’s name, or make it holy? And how is the coming of the Kingdom related to the doing of God’s will?
    WHAT GOD’S KINGDOM IS

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] God’s Kingdom is a government established by Jehovah God with a King chosen by God. Who is the King of God’s Kingdom? Jesus Christ. Jesus as King is greater than all human rulers and is called “the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords.” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) He has the power to do far more good than any human ruler, even the best among them.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] From where will God’s Kingdom rule? Well, where is Jesus? You will remember learning that he was put to death on a torture stake, and then he was resurrected. Shortly thereafter, he ascended to heaven. ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) Hence, that is where God’s Kingdom is—in heaven. That is why the Bible calls it a “heavenly kingdom.” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) Although God’s Kingdom is in heaven, it will rule over the earth.—[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What makes Jesus an outstanding King? For one thing, he will never die. Comparing Jesus with human kings, the Bible calls him “the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light.” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) This means that all the good that Jesus does will last. And he will do great and good things.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Consider this Bible prophecy about Jesus: “Upon him the spirit of Jehovah must settle down, the spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the spirit of counsel and of mightiness, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah; and there will be enjoyment by him in the fear of Jehovah. And he will not judge by any mere appearance to his eyes, nor reprove simply according to the thing heard by his ears. And with righteousness he must judge the lowly ones, and with uprightness he must give reproof in behalf of the meek ones of the earth.” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) Those words show that Jesus was to be a righteous and compassionate King over people on earth. Would you want to have a ruler like that?

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Here is another truth about God’s Kingdom: Jesus will not rule alone. He will have corulers. For example, the apostle Paul told Timothy: “If we go on enduring, we shall also rule together as kings.” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) Yes, Paul, Timothy, and other faithful ones who have been selected by God will rule together with Jesus in the heavenly Kingdom. How many will have that privilege?

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] As pointed out in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] of this book, the apostle John was given a vision in which he saw “the Lamb [Jesus Christ] standing upon the Mount Zion [his royal position in heaven], and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.” Who are those 144,000? John himself tells us: “These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) Yes, they are faithful followers of Jesus Christ specially chosen to rule in heaven with him. After being raised out of death to heavenly life, “they are to rule as kings over the earth” along with Jesus. ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) Since the days of the apostles, God has been selecting faithful Christians in order to complete the number 144,000.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] To arrange for Jesus and the 144,000 to rule mankind is very loving. For one thing, Jesus knows what it is like to be a human and to suffer. Paul said that Jesus is “not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin.” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]; [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) His corulers too have suffered and endured as humans. In addition, they have struggled with imperfection and coped with all kinds of sickness. Surely, they will understand the problems that humans face!
    WHAT WILL GOD’S KINGDOM DO?

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] When Jesus said that his disciples should pray for God’s Kingdom to come, he also said that they should pray for God’s will to be done “as in heaven, also upon earth.” God is in heaven, and his will has always been done there by the faithful angels. In [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] of this book, however, we learned that a wicked angel stopped doing God’s will and caused Adam and Eve to sin. In [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], we will learn more about what the Bible teaches regarding that wicked angel, whom we know as Satan the Devil. Satan and the angelic spirit creatures who chose to follow him—called demons—were allowed to stay in heaven for a while. Hence, not all in heaven were then doing God’s will. That was to change when God’s Kingdom would begin to rule. The newly enthroned King, Jesus Christ, was to wage war on Satan.—[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] The following prophetic words describe what would happen: “I heard a loud voice in heaven say: ‘Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers [Satan] has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!’” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) Did you notice two very important events described in that Bible verse? First, God’s Kingdom under Jesus Christ begins to rule. Second, Satan is cast out of heaven down to the earth.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What have been the results of those two events? Regarding what happened in heaven, we read: “On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them!” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) Yes, the faithful angels in heaven rejoice because, with Satan and his demons gone, everyone in heaven is faithful to Jehovah God. There is complete, unbroken peace and harmony there. God’s will is being done in heaven.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What, though, about the earth? The Bible says: “Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) Satan is angry about being cast out of heaven and having just a short time left. In his anger he causes distress, or “woe,” on earth. We will learn more about that “woe” in the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. But with that in mind, we could ask, How can the Kingdom cause God’s will to be done on earth?

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Well, remember what God’s will is for the earth. You learned about it in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. In Eden, God showed that his will is for this earth to be a paradise filled with an undying, righteous human race. Satan caused Adam and Eve to sin, and that affected the fulfillment of God’s will for the earth but did not change it. Jehovah still purposes that “the righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) And God’s Kingdom will accomplish that. In what way?
    The casting of Satan and his demons out of heaven brought woe to the earth. Such troubles will soon end


    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Consider the prophecy found at [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. There we read: “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite.” What does this tell us about God’s Kingdom?

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] First, it tells us that God’s Kingdom was to be established “in the days of those kings,” or while other kingdoms still existed. Second, it tells us that the Kingdom will last forever. It will not be conquered and be replaced by some other government. Third, we see that there will be war between God’s Kingdom and the kingdoms of this world. God’s Kingdom will be victorious. In the end, it will be the only government over mankind. Then humans will enjoy the best rulership they have ever known.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] The Bible has much to say about that final war between God’s Kingdom and the governments of this world. For example, it teaches that as the end approaches, wicked spirits will spread lies to deceive “the kings of the entire inhabited earth.” For what purpose? “To gather them [the kings] together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.” The kings of the earth will be gathered together to “the place that is called in Hebrew Har–Magedon.” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) Because of what is said in those two verses, the final conflict between human governments and God’s Kingdom is called the battle of Har–Magedon, or Armageddon.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What will God’s Kingdom achieve by means of Armageddon? Think again about what God’s will is for the earth. Jehovah God purposed that the earth be filled with a righteous, perfect human race serving him in Paradise. What prevents that from happening right now? First, we are sinful, and we get sick and die. We learned in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], however, that Jesus died for us so that we can live forever. Likely you remember the words recorded in the Gospel of John: “God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”—[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Another problem is that many people do wicked things. They lie, cheat, and commit immorality. They do not want to do God’s will. People who do wicked things will be destroyed during God’s war of Armageddon. ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) Yet another reason why God’s will is not being done on earth is that governments do not encourage people to do it. Many governments have been weak, cruel, or corrupt. The Bible frankly says: “Man has dominated man to his injury.”—[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] After Armageddon, mankind will be under just one government, God’s Kingdom. That Kingdom will do God’s will and bring wonderful blessings. For example, it will remove Satan and his demons. ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) The power of Jesus’ sacrifice will be applied so that faithful humans will no longer get sick and die. Instead, under Kingdom rule they will be able to live forever. ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) The earth will be made into a paradise. Thus the Kingdom will cause God’s will to be done on earth and will sanctify God’s name. What does this mean? It means that eventually under God’s Kingdom everyone alive will honor Jehovah’s name.
    WHEN DOES GOD’S KINGDOM ACT?

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] When Jesus told his followers to pray, “Let your kingdom come,” it was clear that the Kingdom had not come at that time. Did it come when Jesus ascended to heaven? No, because both Peter and Paul said that after Jesus was resurrected, the prophecy at [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] was fulfilled in him: “The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: ‘Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.’” ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]; [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) There was a waiting period.
    Under Kingdom rule, God’s will is going to be done on earth as it is in heaven


    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] For how long? During the 19th century, sincere Bible students calculated that the waiting period would end in 1914. (Regarding this date, see the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].) World events that began in 1914 confirm that the calculation of these sincere Bible students was correct. The fulfillment of Bible prophecy shows that in 1914, Christ became King and God’s heavenly Kingdom began to rule. Hence, we are living in the “short period of time” that Satan has left. ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]; [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) We can also say with certainty that soon God’s Kingdom will act to cause God’s will to be done on earth. Do you find this to be wonderful news? Do you believe that it is true? The [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] will help you to see that the Bible really does teach these things.

    WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES

    • God’s Kingdom is a heavenly government with Jesus Christ as King, and from among mankind, 144,000 are taken to rule with him.—[Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    • The Kingdom started to rule in 1914, and since then Satan has been cast out of heaven down to earth.—[Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    • God’s Kingdom will soon destroy human governments, and the earth will become a paradise.—[Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

    Study Questions
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What famous prayer will now be examined?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What were three of the things that Jesus taught his disciples to pray for?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What do we need to know about God’s Kingdom?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What is God’s Kingdom, and who is its King?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] From where does God’s Kingdom rule, and over what?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What makes Jesus an outstanding King?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Who will rule with Jesus?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] How many will rule with Jesus, and when did God start to choose them?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. Why is it a loving arrangement for Jesus and the 144,000 to rule over mankind?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Why did Jesus say that his disciples should pray for God’s will to be done in heaven?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What two important events are described at [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What has been the result of Satan’s being cast out of heaven?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What has happened because Satan has been cast down to the earth?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What is God’s will for the earth?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What does [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] tell us about God’s Kingdom?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What is the name of the final war between God’s Kingdom and the governments of this world?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] What prevents God’s will from being done on earth right now?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] How will the Kingdom cause God’s will to be done on earth?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Why do we know that God’s Kingdom did not come when Jesus was on earth or immediately after he was resurrected?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (a) When did God’s Kingdom begin to rule? (b) What will be discussed in the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

  12. #162
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    Default

    Originally Posted by abcd
    You are clearly brainwashed.

    And this is not an insult by any means.

    An insult is something that isn't true.

    But the fact that you support the Jehovah's Witnesses practice of disowning family members, deaths from not getting blood tranfusions, and "being evasive" when it comes to telling the truth as you stated proves it.
    You post all of these anti-Jehovah's witnesses posts, but say you studied for years. You learned zero. and that's not an insult by any means. An insult is something that isn't true. And truth is, you learned nothing while studying.

    Is it not Jehovah's right to decide how he wants to be worshipped as God? Would anyone argue with you wanting a certain level of respect as the head of your household? That would be a pretty insane train of thought. Yet, you penalize God for how he thinks he should be respected in his house? And JW are the small minded?

    It is 10000000000 % God's right to choose an acceptable form of worship. And you are the company you keep. Bad association spoils useful habits. Therefore, if a person decides on their own, to stop serving God acceptably, they have in essence, turned their backs on not only God, but those serving God acceptably. Including their family members. See, you have it backwards my friend. You think that the person who turns their back on God is the victim, when it is in fact the other way around! What Good can come from a servant of God having an ongoing friendship with the enemy of God? This is why their is a disfellowshipping arrangement. To protect the spirituality of those who wish to continue having a loving relationship with God.

    Those who make victims out of the ones who leave God's arrangement don't get it. You simply just don't get it. It's over your head. And that's not an insult, it's just the truth.



    Originally Posted by abcd
    You're defending the Watchtower's support on lying and twisting the truth to others, in order to forward their religion?

    "Of course, being truthful does not mean that we are obligated to divulge all information to anyone who asks it of us."
    Awake 2000, page 21
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Look homie, try as you might, being evasive is not the same as outright lying. If you ask me a question, and I don't want to answer, being evasive is as simple as saying "I'm not talking to you about it." I'm not lying about anything, just not divulging information. Geez, it's an easy concept. And what you have here is a strawman. And that's not an insult, it's the truth.



    Originally Posted by abcd
    As for the "peace" in the Jehovah's Witness organization, how do you explain the 1,000s of members who died and continue to die from the Watchtower's no blood policy?

    And how do you explain the Governing body admitting to being wrong about their blood policy, when they began allowing its members to receive "fractional blood" as of the year 2000?

    Let me guess, "new light?" More propaganda from the Watchtower Society.

    Let me guess, you have a bible quote that says "Jehovah does not forgive blood transfusions UNLESS it comes from fractional blood." There's no such quote.
    Yes, in a way it is new light. Also new scientific development and learnings. When carrying a baby, some fractions of the moms blood is transfered to the baby. Not all, but some. Therefore the reasoning is that since that is an act of God, why should the organization not then allow blood fractions to it's members if needed? It just simply makes logical sense. It is not as if JW want people to die. This is why this arrangement was opened. And taking fractions, or blood factors is not the same as taking full out plasma. But this arrangement has helped a lot of members to make decisions easier.

    This particular issue hit home personally with me, as my youngest son was unknowingly born a hemopheliac. We found out when he was circumsized and they could not stop him from bleeding. I would not allow them to give him a blood transfusion. The dr's had more than enough time to give him the blood fact 9, which he is deficient of. But they lolligagged because factors take more time and work, and a blood transfusion is just easier to give, as it has all of the platelets. So, the dr's decided to spite me, they would wait til my son was purple, and NY State law cites that when in the critical state, the dr has permission to proceed with any procedure deemed necessary to save children (unbeknownst to me at the time)

    Yes it would have hurt beyond words if my son would have died. But knowing the first death is just a formality, and me being faithful to God's will at the time, I was 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000% sure I would see my son again. Jehovah is just that kind of God. Too bad you didn't give him that chance to show you.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    You believe in a religion that got 99% of its original beliefs from
    Ellen G. White's Seventh-Day Adventists and William Miller's Millerite movement and yet claims to be the only true religion.
    Again, you're lost. We get our beliefs from God's word, the Bible. And we are the only true religion, because we are the only faith that bases their lives around what God actually wants, rather than what we want to choose to give God.
    How about you do some real research, and try and find a Christian faith that adheres to the Bible more than JW. Then you would really be doing something! Don't worry, I'll wait! For all your raging banter, you could never succeed in that quest. I promise. But again, I'll wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    Originally Posted by abcd
    That in itself is a contradiction, but the governing body teaches its members that anything me, LJ, OG, or any other non-Witness says is "worthless."
    "Another example of valueless words is found among the leaders of Christendom. Those claim to speak in God's name, but most of their utterances are not based on the Scriptures, and what they are saying is basically worthless.
    The April 15, 2008 study edition of the Watchtower Magazine goes on to say: "Apostates too speak valuless words."
    When concerning the origin of life, worship of God, or true spirituality, if it is not consistent with the will of God, then it is absolutely valueless!

    Jehovah simply knows more than You, OG, and LJ. Fault me for listening to the smart guy here. And that's not an insult, an insult is something that is not true.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    I hope the Watchtower Society improves its treatment of its members, but I doubt that would ever happen.

    People in the Jehovah's Witnesses will continue to die from the no blood transfusion policy, continue to put propaganda that shows Catholic priests with Bibles in one hand and guns on the other in their Awake Magazines, and members will continue to have to cover up whatever the Watchtower Society does to prevent "reproach."
    You really think 7 million people would take time from there lives, to preach door to door to a mostly hostile population, if they were being treated poorly by the organization?

    I don't understand what you mean by propaganda. That is implying lies. There are no lies about any faith, or war, or any of the sort in the magazines that we put out. I have never encountered a person of another faith who disagreed with what we print about their faith in our books. Other than the fact they disagree with our supposed "philosophy". So I don't get your angle here. You tried it though. *Shrugs*



    Originally Posted by abcd
    P.S.-More peace from the Jehovah's Witnesses.
    1. The Watchtower Society covering up hundreds of child molestation cases
    AND EVEN DISFELLOWSHIPPING/EX-COMMUNICATING members for reporting their molestations to the police.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    As servants of God, one should hold JW to a higher standard. However, a higher standard falls well short of a perfect standard. Imperfect people do not always handle things the right way, and the organization has admitted many times over that their former preventive measures were not good enough in the past. Now, however, all such cases immediately get reported to the police. Point blank. can't get the past back, all we can do is progress.


    Originally Posted by abcd
    2. According to the Watchtower and Awake Magazines, a woman who is raped but does not "scream" or "resist enough" is a sinner and has committed fornication or adultery.
    Watchtower 1964 January 15 pp.63-4 Questions from Readers
    "Such Scriptural precedents are applicable to Christians, who are under command, "Flee from fornication." (1 Cor. 6:18) Thus if a Christian woman does not cry out and does not put forth every effort to flee, she would be viewed as consenting to the violation."

    "Even in the sad case where a woman is overpowered and raped, her struggle and screaming for help is not in vain. On the contrary, it establishes that she did all she possibly could to resist her attacker..."
    Watchtower 2003 February 1

    So, if you get raped, you had better scream or strongly resist. Because if you for whatever reason happen to be drugged by the rapist or have a gun or knife to your head, you will be viewed as a sinner AND you will end up like the woman in this video: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    What will the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses say about this? We're imperfect men.
    Yet when another religious group does something wrong, the Watchtower Society is the first to post propaganda in their Watchtower and Awake Magazines. IE, the picture of the Catholic priest with a gun in his hand on the January 2011 Awake magazine. But I'm sure priests normally do walk around with guns in their hands, so I guess that isn't propaganda after all.
    Being overpowered, implies physical struggle, in which in most cases, the natural tendency would be to scream, run, struggle. But if a person sneaks up on a woman gun to her head, of course she cannot scream or try and run. All she has then is prayer. Jehovah will hear the ernest prayers. This is a no win situation either way. And I have never seen an article in any awake that would criticize any faith for a rape.

    I never seen a priest with a Gun. Cept movies. However, they do pray for victory in wars. Even against fellow Christian Nations. Christians killing Christians. Nice.


    Originally Posted by abcd
    But contradiction #1 explains this perfectly.
    1. The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the "only true Christians" and "the only right religion." They even believe all other non-witnesses and religions are under the power of Satan. Yet, at the same time, when you point out their failed predictions & their child molestation incidents, they claim to not be perfect.
    Again, you clearly did not learn anything in your studies. Jehovah's witnesses do not claim to be the only true Christians based on vile behavior from other faiths. Anyone can fall victim to sexual desire, drugs, etc. Even the most heinous attacks are forgiveable by God. However a true Christian lives their lives based on God's word. The only faith that actually does this, is JW. And if you disagree, show reason and proof. Otherwise you are just talking out the side of your head.

    This thread is abt what the Bible really teaches. I have not seen one Christian on this board actually challenge a biblical belief. Why? Because compared to Jehovah's truths, it will get pummeled. The lie usually does when the truth is revealed.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    3. A Russian court has fined a woman for rejecting doctors’ advice to allow her five-year-old son to have a blood transfusion. Her decision resulted in the boy’s death in hospital. The verdict is the first such precedent in the country.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    A JEHOVAH’S Witness who refused a blood transfusion in hospital had a 98pc chance of surviving the bleed that killed herif she had been given the procedure, an inquest was told yesterday.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    You look at this as her being stupid for letting her son die without the transfusion. Jehovah looks at it as she is being faithful to him, and trusts him to the full, knowing that there will be a resurrection. Jehovah's love and trust is better to recieve than his agnst. Jehovah willing allowed his son to die for us to have the opportunity to live. But he knew he would bring him back. That same hope is what all JWs cling to when faced with these situations. Tough, but very doable. I experienced this personally.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    "Someone in my sister's congregation (perhaps an elder) found a doctor 3-1/2 hours away who would perform bloodless surgery. Time was crucial and she was in a weakened state already. She went through the surgery with minimal loss of blood, however the following day she had cardiogenic shock and lapsed into a coma and died shortly thereafter.
    Originally Posted by abcd
    I don't think I'll ever get over what TURMOIL the J.W. BELIEFS HAVE CAUSED MY FAMILY...AND ESPECIALLY THE ISOLATION MY SISTER HAD FROM US. We didn't isolate her...her beliefs kept her from a relationship with her family for many, many years.
    At her memorial service in the congregation where she attended...there was not one J.W. to speak PERSONALLY to any non-witness family member."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    "You cannot allow them to give your child blood![Jehovah's Witness Elders]."

    Without further discussion, I asked them to leave, stating that we could not allow our child to die in this way. "If this is the God I serve, I am through with Him[father]." The elders left the hospital upset with me that I would not submit to them. "I hope," one elder even said, "she gets hepatitis from that blood, just to prove that it's bad!"
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Well that was her choice. the elder was wrong if that is what he said, but that is at best he say, she say. You choose to believe the woman, I know people exaggerate greatly when it comes to JW. I see it everyday. I say it's just sad all around.

    What's even worse, is that she thinks she is hurting the Elders. But really it is her relationship with God that is in peril. See, people who don't truly want to know God, cannot personalize him. He cannot be seen, heard, touched, so he feels far off. This is the crutch used when it comes to service of God. But he does show his loving quality over and over. A true servant of God clings to that. A true servant may think to themself "How much do you have to love people in order to send your only begotten son to die for the few who will listen to him?" Which of you is sending your kid to die for those who will ignore him? Don't worry, I'll wait!!!!!!!!!!!

    Because of this, a person can draw close to God, though they cannot see, hear or touch him. And this person will try their best to serve him. All others, will not. That is where you are.

    Good day.
    Last edited by Knicks4lyfe; Feb 07, 2011 at 16:32.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Ultimately, that was my question.

    You and I are born sinners. We cannot help but eat, or sin. Adam was perfect, and his intrinsic inclination would have made it as easy to obey God, as sin and imperfection make it easy for us to sin against God.

    He just chose to not follow the rule, which meant showing a lack of love.

    1 Corinthians 6:9
    9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men,

    My question is, if a person is trying to please God, is it fair to say that they should avoid the practice of these sins as a rule, out of love for God?

    I don't think we should look at what God expects of us as"rules" per say, to add a burden. After all, it only benefits us. However, the gist of it is that these are in fact guidelines, or rules, that God knows we can, and should live by, if we want to be deemed righteous by him.

    It is inescapable. We must obey God's guidelines to please him. And I'm not offended, bro, you expressed your opinion. Not mad at all abt that.
    The problem I have encountered with many Jehovah's Witnesses' method of thinking is that they conflate God with "the organization." The organization is not, according to scripture, God: Jesus says that he is the way. Additionally, if "Christendom" is apostate, I do not know why the organization uses scripture selected for the bible by the Catholic Church.

    Surely, you should have God personally deliver a correct book to your people, if all other spirituality is false.

    And, insofar as rules, you never answered my citations of scripture. They clearly state that the letter, ink, rules, etc., come from man and are not the way to communion with the divine, in Christianity.

    Like ABCD, my hope is that all religious people, JW's and otherwise, find real spirituality, not these controlling, fear-based gatherings, seen across the world.

    Religion must serve God and spiritual people [of all faiths], not organizations or man's desire to control other men. Jesus called organizations to serve men, not the other way around:

    John 13

    12 When he (Jesus) had finished washing their (the apostles') feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16 Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

    EDIT: As for ABCD, he is trying, it is clear to me, to help you and other witnesses view others in a positive light, rather than as being in league with the devil. He also wants you to be healthy, physically and mentally. He has no other reason for posting what he has.
    Last edited by OGKnickfan; Feb 07, 2011 at 19:24.

  14. #164
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    You post all of these anti-Jehovah's witnesses posts, but say you studied for years. You learned zero. and that's not an insult by any means. An insult is something that isn't true. And truth is, you learned nothing while studying.
    Uh, let's see.

    #1-You dodged all of the facts I presented, and you ignored the Biblical facts OGKnicksfan presented.

    #2-Everything I posted was a fact. If it's not a fact, why can't you disprove it?
    Why do you dodge all of the questions?

    The answer is that Jehovah's Witnesses are instructed to use
    Theocratic Warfare(lying) in order to prevent "reproach" in their religion.

    You seem to think I have something personal against Jehovah's Witnesses, but yet you cannot present one insult that I said towards Witnesses.

    All of the facts I presented are about the Watchtower Society's treatment of its members and the mind control techniques used upon its members by the Governing body.

    But since you're taught to believe the Watchtower Society has exclusive access to the "truth", you feel threatened by the actual truth:

    "Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." Watchtower, December 1, 1981 p.27

    " But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us. Watchtower September 15,1989 p. 23


    The purpose of my posts is to inform people of the poor treatment the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses receive at the hands of the
    Watchtower Bible & Tract Society/Governing Body.

    You seem to exclude a lot of the things your religion teaches and does to its members which is unfair to the public.

    Good day.
    Last edited by abcd; Feb 08, 2011 at 22:16.

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    Originally Posted by abcd
    You copy and pasted an article from a Watchtower magazine, verbatim. So you didn't really use the Bible's viewpoint.

    And considering Jehovah's Witnesses are charged money to order magazines, you're pretty much plagiarizing material from your organization.

    To believe that 6.7 billion people are going to be "put to death" and only 7.2 million people will be saved shows a strong lack of humility.

    And according to your organization, internet blogs, television, and music is part of Satan and the "system of things" so you aren't even supposed to be posting on this forum, by your organization's standards.

    Jehovah's Witnesses aren't even supposed to interact with non-witnesses unless it's for business and school related purposes, and I've seen you post about the Knicks on here, which has nothing to do with business or school.

    Jehovah's Witnesses are supposed to be "some of the happiest people" yet you use a lot of sarcasm and bitterness in your replies.

    It doesn't seem like you're happy to me.
    Originally Posted by abcd
    Translation: the Jehovah's Witnesses believe everyone is going to be put to death except 7.2 million followers and the previous members who passed away.

    That is very logical, I know. And It's also very humble to put yourself above 6.7 billion people.

    And it's very peaceful to secretly believe everyone is with Satan, while you're handing them a magazine.

    You should listen to the things that come out of your mouth.

    But since you believe everything that comes from the Watchtower's Governing body aka human beings with suits, that's why you think it makes sense that someone who believes in Jesus and God will get put to death but someone who believes in "Jehovah" will live forever.

    Makes a ton of sense. I know.
    Originally Posted by abcd
    These videos all show what the Jehovah's Witnesses are taught and what they believe in.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    2:00 to 2:30 sec shows you the anger and superiority Jehovah's Witnesses feel towards those who are not members of their Billion dollar organization, and it shows the mental control its members are under by the governing body.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    This shows some of their failed prophecies. 2:00 to 4:00 is the main part.

    Leviticus 20:27(New World Translation)
    "And as for a man or woman in whom proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail. They should pelt them to death with stones. Their own blood is upon them."

    The Jehovah's Witnesses have predicted the end of the world on about 8 occasions.
    Originally Posted by abcd
    Translation: You could not answer the fact that your organization teaches its members to hate those who are not Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Jehovah's Witnesses have taken it upon themselves to play the role of God.

    According to the Jehovah's Witnesses, they already know who's going to heaven, who's going to go to paradise, and who's going to be put to death.

    In fact, the Jehovah's Witnesses already have an "annointed class" of members who are going to heaven that they selected themselves, name by name.

    It's funny because last time I checked, Christians believe God is the one who decides who goes to heaven and who doesn't, not human beings in suits.
    Originally Posted by abcd
    Actually, it says those who predict the end of the world will be put to death.

    I'm not a Christian, and I don't believe in what the quote says, but according to the New World Translation, Leviticus 20:27(New World Translation)
    "And as for a man or woman in whom proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail."

    The quote clearly states that a man or woman who acts as a source of prediction will be put to death.

    You can deny what the quote says, but it's in the Jehovah's Witness bible.

    1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, and 1994 are all years where the Jehovah's Witnesses predicted the end of the world.

    Instead of letting God decide when he wanted to end the world, the WatchTower Society decided for him.
    Originally Posted by abcd
    I do not hate anyone, but you seem to believe that because I present facts that are supported with links, articles, and Bible quotes that I am attacking you.

    I don't take anything that you say personally, because I understand what you're going through.

    The Governing body is a billion dollar organization that controls every aspect of every member's life, while believing that everyone is with satan and everyone is going to be destroyed.

    In fact, by Jehovah's Witnesses standards, you aren't even supposed to post on here, because internet blogs are part of "Satan and the system of things."

    It is a fact that the Jehovah's Witness Organization wants God to kill everyone so that they could then be saved.

    The governing body teaches its members to cheer for Armageddon so that then everyone and everything could be destroyed except for the select Witnesses.

    This is a video of what happens to under aged 13 year olds who are baptized into the Jehovah's Witnesses and then decide to leave once they become an adult.

    The man in this video lost all his family, friends, and even his wife thanks to the Jehovah's Witness Organization.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Originally Posted by abcd
    1. Thanks for admitting that the Jehovah's Witnesses pass blame on 13 year olds who are forcefully baptized by strict parents and then condemned for leaving the church once they are old enough to decide for themselves.
    I'm sure 13 year olds know everything they want in life, so it's perfectly fine to baptize them and expect a life long commitment.

    2. You've already proven that the governing body teaches hate, based on your support of parents disowning their children.

    3. I don't know if you actually believe the governing body follows the Bible as its main source, but the Governing body holds the Watchtower Magazine as the final word.

    In fact, a Jehovah's Witness woman was asked by the Jehovah's Witness leaders if she would choose something in the Watchtower that contradicted the Bible or if she would choose what was in the Bible, and she said she would choose the Bible. As a result, the woman was disfellowshipped.

    For those of you who don't know, someone who is disfellowshipped by the JWs lose all their family, friends, spouses, and children.

    The Witnesses are to ignore the shunned person and consider them as "dead."

    In addition, Jehovah's Witnesses preach that it is impossible to use the Bible alone. That is one of the reasons why they believe all other Christian denominations will be wiped out by God.

    In fact, JWs don't even consider Catholics, Baptists, Adventists, etc. as Christian.

    Jehovah's Witnesses consider all other denominations and religions as
    SATAN WORSHIPERS

    But yet you want people to believe the JW organization is kind and humble.

    Here's the link:
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    P.S.- Jehovah's Witnesses believe every player on the New York Knicks and every non-witness on the KO forum is with Satan and will be vanquished by Jehovah, if they don't convert.

    That's just to show you how hateful the governing body teaches its members to be.
    Originally Posted by abcd
    1. So according to you, a 13 year old cannot be forced to be baptized by strict Jehovah's Witness parents, because the 13 year old could always choose to separate themselves from their parents and become homeless at age 18.

    But not to worry. 85% of Americans hold a High School Diploma or GED, so he should have no problem having to compete with over 300 million Americans for a job.

    2. You admitted that the Jehovah's Witnesses believe everyone is under the power of Satan.

    And since Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only true religion, that implies they feel all other religions are false and inferior.

    And since Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only people who can be saved by God, that implies you believe the other religions are with Satan.

    If this wasn't the case, the Witnesses would not state that they are the only true religion.

    3. And the fact that you titled this thread "What does the Bible REALLY teach" implies that you feel all other Christians are taught the Bible INCORRECTLY and all other religious groups are also taught faux information.

    And the information you posted came from a book published by the Watchtower Society.

    It's on sale at Amazon.com.


    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Author)
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    The book received 3 1/2 stars out of 5.
    Originally Posted by abcd
    So children who are 8, 10, and 13 years old have to "man up" and "blame themselves" for why they are baptized too early.
    Link: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Just like a teenage ex-Witness has to "man up" and "blame herself" for being raped, just like the Jehovah's Witness elders instructed her to do before she was disfellowshipped. And as a parting gift, they instructed her not to pray, because "Jehovah wouldn't answer her prayers."
    link: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    This is what Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to believe by men in suits aka the governing body in Brooklyn, New York.

    You've shown the true colors of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Their love is conditional, because their idea of God believes everyone is with Satan except a select 7.2 million followers.

    So when anyone questions the Watchtower, or if God forbid, they join another denomination or no longer believe in the Watchtower, they are disfellowshipped and seen as "spiritually dead."

    According to Jehovah's Witnesses, hating people is great.
    "The obligation to hate lawlessness also applies to all activity by apostates. Our attitude toward apostates should be that of David, who declared: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies. --"
    The Watchtower, July 15, 1992, page 12.

    "Like gangrene, apostate reasoning is nothing but quick-spreading spiritual death."
    The Watchtower, March 15, 1986, page 15.

    "Therefore, resolve in your heart that you will never even touch the poison that apostates want you to sip." --The Watchtower, March 15, 1986, page 20.

    Proof that the Watchtower Society believes anyone who uses the Bible alone (Including Jehovah's Witnesses who use the New World Translation alone) is with satan:
    "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude. ... They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home." --The Watchtower, August 15, 1981, page 28-29

    It is a fact that most people in your situation ignore anything anyone tells them, because they are trained by the governing body aka men to believe everyone is part of Satan's "system of things."

    But this is the hate being taught from your very own magazine.
    Originally Posted by abcd
    Top 10 Contradictions of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
    10. Jehovah's Witnesses are against abortion, but they support denying babies life saving blood transfusions.
    "With you is the source of life.Psalm 36:9(New World Translation)Life, then, is a gift from God."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    "Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, 20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood."
    Acts 15:19-20(New World Translation)
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    9. Jehovah's Witnesses are against blood transfusions, but as of 2000 support receiving and donating "fractional blood." Where's the quote where Jehovah says blood is bad, unless it's fractional? I do not know.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    According to the JW's history, they willingly accepted and donated blood until 1945.


    8. Charles Taze Russell, the Watchtower Society, and many members of the Jehovah's Witnesses have made a combined 10 false end of the world predictions: 1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, and 1994, but they claim the "governing body" is the mouthpiece for Jehovah God.

    7. The Jehovah's Witnesses(Est. 1881) claim to be "God's channel" yet 90% of their beliefs are the same as the Seventh-Day Adventist's beliefs(Est. 1844).
    Ex: SDA's(Est. 1844) believe salvation is through works and faith; JW's(1881) believe the exact same thing. SDA's(Est. 1844) believe Jesus is the archangel Michael; JW's(Est. 1881) believe the exact same thing. SDA's believe holidays are of pagan origin; JW's believe the exact same thing. SDA's believe Hell is not real; JW's believe the same thing. SDA's believe they are the only true Christians; JW's believe the same thing.

    6. Jehovah's Witnesses believe everyone outside of their religion is "worldly" and "under the power of Satan" yet they work in Government jobs, attend public school, and eat at fast food restaurants.

    5. Jehovah's Witnesses are against Catholicism, yet from 1960 to 1983, the Jehovah's Witnesses Governing Body used a Catholic Spirit Medium(Johannes Greber's) interpretation of the Bible to support their New World Translation.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    4. Jehovah's Witnesses claim they do not support judging others:
    "Jesus said that we should not be judging one another."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Yet in their April 15, 2008 study edition of their Watchtower Magazine, it says the following: "Another example of valueless words is found among the leaders of Christendom. Those claim to speak in God's name, but most of their utterances are not based on the Scriptures, and what they are saying is basically worthless. In other words, the governing body believes what the other denominations (Catholics, SDA's, Mormons, Baptists, Pentecostals) have to say is worthless.
    The April 15, 2008 study edition of the Watchtower Magazine goes on to say: "Apostates too speak valuless words."

    3. Jehovah's Witnesses claim you can come and leave the Jehovah's Witnesses as you please, but the governing body disfellowships people from their entire family, friends, spouses, and children if they choose to no longer believe or join another Christian denomination.

    2. Most Jehovah's Witnesses will claim they are not brainwashed.
    However, the Watchtower Society supports brainwashing.
    "A musician who had lived the unreal life on drugs began studying the Bible With Jehovah's Witnesses. His associates ridiculed him, taunting "You are being brainwashed." He aptly[appropriately] replied: The shape our brains are in, they need a good washing."
    Watchtower, March 15, 1973 Page 186-187 Paragraph 27

    1. The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the "only true Christians" and
    "the only right religion." They even believe all other non-witnesses and religions are under the power of Satan. Yet, at the same time, when you point out their failed predictions & their child molestation incidents, they claim to not be perfect.


    Most Witnesses are unaware of this, however, the first President of the Jehovah's Witnesses was "William Henry Conley."

    Q: Why do Jehovah's Witnesses deny William Henry Conley was their first president?

    A: William Henry Conley stopped believing in Russell's teachings, after his failed prophecies in 1874, 1878, and 1881. AND Conley donated money to non-Witness denominations.

    That's right, folks. The very first President of the Jehovah's Witnesses chose to no longer believe in the Jehovah's Witness religion, after he had discovered Charles Taze Russell scammed him out of 1,000s of dollars in "donations" that he gave after being told Armageddon would come in 1881. In 1882, Conley stopped handing Russell donations, and his name was mysteriously no longer listed as the first president of the Watchtower.
    Yet they are "the only true Christians."

    In addition, Conley donated money to Christian denominations that Jehovah's Witnesses of today claim are "false and part of "Christendom."
    Originally Posted by abcd
    The Jehovah's Witnesses claim the governing body is "God's Channel." So why does "God's channel" make so many false predictions? 1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, 1994?

    Is God lying to the governing body on purpose?

    Let me guess, the governing body are imperfect men?

    You're guilty of contradiction #1.



    Study your religion's history, and you will see that Charles Taze Russell modeled all of his beliefs after the Seventh-Day Adventists.

    But the Watchtower Society forbids its members from researching, because the internet is controlled by "Satan." So I doubt you'll do such a thing.

    And why is it that Jehovah's Witnesses always mention in their Watchtower publications that they are the only true Christians?

    If you're God's chosen people, why do you have to prove that to anyone?

    Is it because your organization doubts itself after making 10 failed Armageddon predictions? Possibly.



    That's why a woman was asked by the Jehovah's Witnesses if there was something in the Watchtower that contradicted the Bible, would she choose the Magazine or the Bible. She said she'd choose the Bible and got disfellowshipped.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]



    You're guilty of contradiction #4.





    That's why Witnesses refer to the words of others as "valueless" and "worthless." And they call all non-Witness denominations "apostate Christianity."

    Contradiction #4.

    P.S.-If Apostates are trying to create their own religions like the JWs claim, what are the names of these new religions?

    Why hasn't anyone heard of them?

    Did God lie to the governing body and tell him to teach that to his members?
    Originally Posted by abcd
    Jehovah's Witnesses are discouraged from reading the Bible for themselves, without the help of a man-made magazine that supposedly comes from Jehovah God, through the governing body.
    Originally Posted by abcd
    The Jehovah's Witnesses have a "Theocratic Warfare policy."
    Each member of the Jehovah's Witnesses learns the policy at their "Theocratic Ministry School."

    The members are trained to lie and withhold information from "outsiders" and people who supposedly aren't "entitled" to the truth.

    In other words, every member of the Jehovah's Witnesses
    (including Knicks4lyfe) has a right to lie to people, when they knock on people's doors to "preach the good news."

    According to the Watchtower, lying "does not harm anyone."

    'So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good. Today God's servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God's servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God's Kingdom.' Watchtower May 1, 1957 Page 285 - 286.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    'We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive. ... As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies.' Watchtower June 1, 1960, pages 351-352."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    'While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. ... Evidently the course of Abraham, Isaac, Rahab, and Elisha in misdirecting or in withholding full facts from nonworshipers of Jehovah must be viewed in the same light.
    "Insight On The Scriptures", Volume 2, 1988 pages 244-245.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Originally Posted by abcd
    You are clearly brainwashed.

    And this is not an insult by any means.

    An insult is something that isn't true.

    But the fact that you support the Jehovah's Witnesses practice of disowning family members, deaths from not getting blood tranfusions, and "being evasive" when it comes to telling the truth as you stated proves it.

    You're defending the Watchtower's support on lying and twisting the truth to others, in order to forward their religion?

    "Of course, being truthful does not mean that we are obligated to divulge all information to anyone who asks it of us."
    Awake 2000, page 21
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    As for the "peace" in the Jehovah's Witness organization, how do you explain the 1,000s of members who died and continue to die from the Watchtower's no blood policy?

    And how do you explain the Governing body admitting to being wrong about their blood policy, when they began allowing its members to receive "fractional blood" as of the year 2000?

    Let me guess, "new light?" More propaganda from the Watchtower Society.

    Let me guess, you have a bible quote that says "Jehovah does not forgive blood transfusions UNLESS it comes from fractional blood." There's no such quote.

    You're guilty of Theocratic Warfare AND contradiction #9.
    9. Jehovah's Witnesses are against blood transfusions, but as of 2000 support receiving and donating "fractional blood." Where's the quote where Jehovah says blood is bad, unless it's fractional? I do not know.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    According to the JW's history, they willingly accepted and donated blood until 1945


    You believe in a religion that got 99% of its original beliefs from
    Ellen G. White's Seventh-Day Adventists and William Miller's Millerite movement and yet claims to be the only true religion.

    That in itself is a contradiction, but the governing body teaches its members that anything me, LJ, OG, or any other non-Witness says is "worthless."
    "Another example of valueless words is found among the leaders of Christendom. Those claim to speak in God's name, but most of their utterances are not based on the Scriptures, and what they are saying is basically worthless.
    The April 15, 2008 study edition of the Watchtower Magazine goes on to say: "Apostates too speak valuless words."

    I hope the Watchtower Society improves its treatment of its members, but I doubt that would ever happen.

    People in the Jehovah's Witnesses will continue to die from the no blood transfusion policy, continue to put propaganda that shows Catholic priests with Bibles in one hand and guns on the other in their Awake Magazines, and members will continue to have to cover up whatever the Watchtower Society does to prevent "reproach."

    P.S.-More peace from the Jehovah's Witnesses.
    1. The Watchtower Society covering up hundreds of child molestation cases
    AND EVEN DISFELLOWSHIPPING/EX-COMMUNICATING members for reporting their molestations to the police.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    2. According to the Watchtower and Awake Magazines, a woman who is raped but does not "scream" or "resist enough" is a sinner and has committed fornication or adultery.
    Watchtower 1964 January 15 pp.63-4 Questions from Readers
    "Such Scriptural precedents are applicable to Christians, who are under command, "Flee from fornication." (1 Cor. 6:18) Thus if a Christian woman does not cry out and does not put forth every effort to flee, she would be viewed as consenting to the violation."

    "Even in the sad case where a woman is overpowered and raped, her struggle and screaming for help is not in vain. On the contrary, it establishes that she did all she possibly could to resist her attacker..."
    Watchtower 2003 February 1

    So, if you get raped, you had better scream or strongly resist. Because if you for whatever reason happen to be drugged by the rapist or have a gun or knife to your head, you will be viewed as a sinner AND you will end up like the woman in this video: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    What will the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses say about this? We're imperfect men.
    Yet when another religious group does something wrong, the Watchtower Society is the first to post propaganda in their Watchtower and Awake Magazines. IE, the picture of the Catholic priest with a gun in his hand on the January 2011 Awake magazine. But I'm sure priests normally do walk around with guns in their hands, so I guess that isn't propaganda after all.

    But contradiction #1 explains this perfectly.
    1. The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the "only true Christians" and "the only right religion." They even believe all other non-witnesses and religions are under the power of Satan. Yet, at the same time, when you point out their failed predictions & their child molestation incidents, they claim to not be perfect.

    3. A Russian court has fined a woman for rejecting doctors’ advice to allow her five-year-old son to have a blood transfusion. Her decision resulted in the boy’s death in hospital. The verdict is the first such precedent in the country.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    A JEHOVAH’S Witness who refused a blood transfusion in hospital had a 98pc chance of surviving the bleed that killed herif she had been given the procedure, an inquest was told yesterday.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    "Someone in my sister's congregation (perhaps an elder) found a doctor 3-1/2 hours away who would perform bloodless surgery. Time was crucial and she was in a weakened state already. She went through the surgery with minimal loss of blood, however the following day she had cardiogenic shock and lapsed into a coma and died shortly thereafter.
    I don't think I'll ever get over what TURMOIL the J.W. BELIEFS HAVE CAUSED MY FAMILY...AND ESPECIALLY THE ISOLATION MY SISTER HAD FROM US. We didn't isolate her...her beliefs kept her from a relationship with her family for many, many years.
    At her memorial service in the congregation where she attended...there was not one J.W. to speak PERSONALLY to any non-witness family member."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    "You cannot allow them to give your child blood![Jehovah's Witness Elders]."

    Without further discussion, I asked them to leave, stating that we could not allow our child to die in this way. "If this is the God I serve, I am through with Him[father]." The elders left the hospital upset with me that I would not submit to them. "I hope," one elder even said, "she gets hepatitis from that blood, just to prove that it's bad!"
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    My next post is going to show the members of Knicksonline the history of the Millerite movement. I will also compare and contrast the five major denominations that came from the movement . No insults, just facts supported by links as usual.

    After that post, I will make another post and then that's it. Everyone will be aware of the facts.

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