LJ4ptplay
Starter
It's not how science "sees" it, it's the facts. The bible says the rabbit chews its cud, rabbits do not chew their cud. It's not that hard to see. The bible is wrong. Pretty simple.
what does the bible really teach?
- Thread starter Knicks4lyfe
- Start date
It's not how science "sees" it, it's the facts. The bible says the rabbit chews its cud, rabbits do not chew their cud. It's not that hard to see. The bible is wrong. Pretty simple.
Knicks4lyfe
Starter
But hold on, you said the same thing about the earth being a sphere. I mean that is just silly. It looks like a sphere, even if it ain't one. So for that time, it was relevant. Same with the Cud. But like I said, is what it is.
The hebrew word used orignally can apply to chewing cud or refection. So is that still wrong?
Languages do not perfectly translate with each other.
Just like Te amo does not really mean I love you. It means more then that, but there isn't a real English equivalent to explain that.
LJ4ptplay
Starter
So then why does the bible say a pig, that also practices refection, does NOT chew it's cud? If the bible was referring to refection, it would have said the pig chews its cud.
Lv:11:7: And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.
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LJ4ptplay
Starter
The bible calls it a circle, not a sphere. And both are incorrect. Plus, a circle is in reference to a flat object. Once again, the bible is proven to be written by human beings ignorant of the world around them. They thought the earth was flat. Wrong.
The bible says the rabbit chews it's cud. This is wrong. If the bible was referring to refection, it would have said the pig chews its cud. But it doesn't. It clearly states the pig doesn't chew it's cud. The bible is wrong. Sorry.
All of this is in reference to you saying the bible is scientifically accurate. This is wrong, yet you will continue to say it. You are lying when you do.
Knicks4lyfe
Starter
You are forgetting that it is applying to a less scientific group of people. I'd be more critical of this if say there was today's science and it said those things.
But like I said, this is stuff you hang your hat on. And that's fine. But there is absolutely nothing science can do to disprove mat 24:14. And that's way more relevant than a circle or sphere or cud.
By the way, the bible does say circle and sphere about the earth. One reference is in Job, the other Isaiah.
LJ4ptplay
Starter
It doesn't matter who they are speaking to. If the animal doesn't chew cud, why say it does? What's the point. It's clear it was written by humans that misunderstood what was going on. Relating to less scientific people doesn't matter when it's completely wrong. Just say don't eat the rabbit. No need to give the false information.
Particularly when that false information is used as justification for not eating certain animals. Technically, since an animal that does not have hoofs and does not chew its cud, is clean to eat, the rabbit is ok to eat. Or if they are talking about refection, the pig has hooves and perfroms refection, so therefore it should be clean to eat. The bible f*cked up big time on this. Instead of giving all this false info, just say don't eat the pig and rabbit.
Job does not call the earth a sphere. Neither does Isaiah.
Bible still wrong.
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Again, we've been over this. This has obviously not happened. And a group that follows the bible doing what the bible tells them to do, does not equal a fulfilled prohecy. That is the definition of a self-fulfillng prophecy.
Group A follows Book X.
Group A does what book X tells them to do.
That does not mean Book X has a fulfilled prohecy. Especailly when Group A has not completed what Book X told them to do. You seem to have a strange definition for "fulfilled prophecy".
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Knicks4lyfe
Starter
Why not? Why didn't this happen before Jehovah's witnesses were doing it?
And it is happening. We've covered over 90 % of the globe with our message. And now that we have the internet, even more can be reached! It takes time to preach to the entire inhabited earth you know.
And Jehovah said people would willingly come to him. This is all part of prophecy, whether you think so or not. It boggles me that you're the smart one here and can't see it, but then again, Jesus did say Jehovah hides the truth from the high minded.
LJ4ptplay
Starter
1.) You haven't preached to the entire inhabited earth
2.) The end has not come
= Prophecy not fulfilled. Matthew 24:14 is not fulfilled. Seems simple to me.
The JWs trying to preach to the inhabited earth, is you trying to fulfill the prophecy. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. And even if you reach the entire inhabited earth, the prophecy is not fulfilled until the end comes. Since I know the end is not coming, because the bible is wrong about almost everything, the prophecy will never be fulfilled.
Hang your hat on Matthew 24:14 all you want. If that gets you through the day and lets you know you haven't wasted your entire life in a cult, then by all means, continue lying to yourself that Matthew 24:14 is a fulfilled prophecy. And go ahead and keep lying about the bible bing scientifially accurate. And go ahead citing inaccurte information and lies. Good luck with that. I'll stick to the facts, thanks.
I didn't know pigs practice refection. I learned something. That is inconsistent.
I think it would be a good idea to change it in the versions that have those inaccuracies, but those who have some authority over what gets changed do not feel that way I guess or are too scared to do it. I don't know. I don't have an answer.
In no way am I saying the bible is absolutely "scientifically" correct. I was giving my explanation about the particular verse you brought into question.
I think it is a good thing that you pointed that verse out. Because people can learn more about it.
LJ4ptplay
Starter
It seems like the bible should say, "don't eat rabbits and pigs because they eat their own sh*t".
Without the blunt vulgarity of course.
As I have said before, there was no "Jehovah's Witnesses" religion back then. There is no indication that either Conley or anyone else associated with the Watch Tower at that time had any concept of either accepting or rejecting a religion,such as the Jehovah's Witnesses.
However, much of the above appears to out of someone's imagination.
William Conley was the first president of the Watch Tower Society before it was incorporated; this information is freely available on many different websites owned by Bible Students. the last mention of him in the pages of the Watch Tower is in that of a letter published in the Watch Tower of June 15, 1894 (there evidently was a special issue of June 11 which has been combined with the June 15 issue). However, most Jehovah's Witnesses are probably not aware of William Conley.
I do not know of anytime that Russell ever said anything about Armageddon as coming in 1881. Russell, at that time, believed that Armageddon -- the time of trouble -- had started in 1874, and that it would last until 1914. As far as I know, no one was expecting Armageddon to come in 1881. Russell adopted this teaching from Barbour; he later believed that Armageddon had not yet started, but that it would begin a few years before 1914 and end in 1914; in 1904, Russell adopted a view similar to some of his associates that Armageddon would not start until 1914, and would continue for some time after 1914.
Much of what is being circulated about Conley, however, is out people's imagination (as such is often done as related to Russell). I do not know to what extent Conley rejected Russell's views, but there were many who rejected Russell's views on many points who were associated with the Bible Students movement. The idea that Russell swindled Conley out of thousands of dollars is, to say that least, unfounded.
If Conley was upset about something related to 1881, there appears to be no historical record of such. At least up to 1894 (13 years after 1881), Brother Conley was still on friendly terms with Russell. Conley died in 1897. Many have made a big deal out the fact that Russell failed to acknowledge his death in the pages of the Watch Tower, and from that imaginative speculations have developed and often presented as though fact. I do not know why Russell did not enter such a notice in the pages of the Watch Tower. It could be for many different reasons.
One thing I might note, however, is that from the very start of the Watch Tower Society, the agreement between Russell and the Society was that Russell was to retain control over the Watch Tower magazine and his writings. For instance, Russell, until he died, considered the Watch Tower magazine "his" magazine; however, he never expressed the same about the Watch Tower Society itself.
Many who were associated with Russell also submitted articles to other magazines, such as "Zion's Day-Star" and "The World's Hope." Russell never prohibited such, nor did he ever claim any authority to prohibit any of the Bible Students from subscribing or using those magazines (or other magazines of that time), but he did point out their misrepresentation of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus. Concerning these two papers, Russell wrote: "We have nothing but kindly personal feelings toward the Editors of these two papers; with both of whom we are on intimate and friendly terms. It is error and falsity which we oppose, not men." -- Watch Tower, April, 1883, page 2.
Will stop for today...
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Are you an International Bible Student?
What's your point?
My point was that William Henry Conley was associating with people of many denominations, AND he donated money to many denominations AND he stopped giving Charles Taze Russell donations, shortly after his failed predictions. Why would Russell take Conley's name off as the first president, if Conley still believed in Russell's teachings?
Charles Taze Russell measured pyramids to predict the end of the world in 1874. When his prediction did not come true, he said Jesus took his throne in 1874 "invisibly" and that Armageddon would come in 1878, 1881, 1914, and 1915. None of those predictions would come true, though.
Here's the quotes:
"The 'grand gallery' measures 1874 inches long at the top, 1878 inches long at a groove cut in its sides about midway between bottom and top and 1881
inches at the bottom. Now notice these three distinct dates(1874, 1878, 1881) are marked by the pyramid"-Charles Taze Russell Zion's Watchtower
"There is no reason for changing the figures; they are God's dates, not ours; 1914 is not the day for the beginning, but the end!"-Charles Taze Russell
Zion's Watchtower
"However, in 1912, he back-pedalled somewhat:
"The Gentile Times prove that the present governments must all be overthrown about the close of A.D. 1915"-Watchtower, Nov 1914
"The end of 6000 years is 1873."-Charles Taze Russell Zion's Watchtower
Charles Taze Russell is the founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
He referred to God as Jehovah, rejected the trinity, and referred to Jesus as a god, just like the New World Translation.
"Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshipped, and properly so. While he was not the God, Jehovah, he was a god."-
Charles Taze Russell Watchtower
"When the Watch Tower Society was founded in 1881, William Conley donated $3500 (70%) of the $5000 original capital. Joseph Russell donated $1000 (20%), with Charles Taze Russell donating only $500 (10%)."
when Conley's friend Charles Taze Russell fell under the spell of Nelson Barbour and started teaching that Christ had invisibly returned to the vicinity of the earth in 1874, and when Russell started predicting the Rapture for Passover 1878, and then 1881, Conley evidently must have put some amount of faith in Russell.
"However, sometime in 1882 Conley evidently decided that he would make no more "large" contributions to finance Russell's schemes. From latter 1882 until the mid-1890s, the Watch Tower Society reported receiving very few donations, and as a result conducted minimal activity during that ten year stretch."
"William Conley and his wife Sarah (who also will always be noted as being two of the five original "Bible Students"), no longer supported nor believed in the teachings of the Watch Tower Society."
http://www.amazon.com/Index-Watchtower-Errors-1879-1989/dp/0801077567#reader_0801077567
http://www.freeminds.org/organization/pre-russell/russell-not-first-president-of-watchtower.html
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Knicks4lyfe
Starter
I never said it was fulfilled. I just said it was happening, as in unfolding before your eyes. In fact, to your very door step! Whether you think it's self fulfilling (bs by the way, corny, strawman, whatever helps YOU sleep) or not, it's happening. So the fact that it's happening, and the one group that just so happens to be doing it, are witnesses of the Only God who actually exists, and thousands of years ago he said this would take place in a book full of lies (according to the haughty minded) means smart people should really rethink whether it's true or not. I mean, I can say there is more evidence for Jehovah existing based upon this than you can for your common ancestor!! And there would nothing you can say that could really shift the argument logically in your favor. Because Jehovah's witnesses preach God's Kingdom, throughout just about the entire earth, and the missing link is still missing.
And it's probably fair to say the preaching will reach the entire earth before they find your cuzzo. I mean it's over 90% of the globe now. How much longer is needed with Internet and other factors to help?
What you don't get (as you often seem to do) Is that self fulfilling is the crutch you lean on! The fact of the matter is, the book of Daniel said the truth would become abundant in our time. Jehovah's witnesses spread the truth about God. Jesus said the Kingdom message will be preached earth wide, and JW's have done this. Jehovah said through Isaiah he would take a people from among the nations for himself, and they will be his witnesses. Here, again... In your face. Not somewhere in Bizzaro world like the common ancestor. In your face. You are actually seeing God's purpose come to fruition.
This is how weak your argument is. I have asked you to find another group that has preached Jesus message of the Kingdom after the Apostles died, up until JW now. You can't do it. Because it didn't exist. That is because true worship was trampled on until the time of the end. So there was wholesale corruption as far as Christianity was concerned for milleniums. So the Kingdom message was tainted. Until JW's.
So sorry, it's not self fulfilling. It was just the time Jehovah designated to re-establish true worship. But, you don't get it. Over your head.
Fact. Mathew 24:14 is more true than some bizzaro world common ancestor.
LJ4ptplay
Starter
Group A believe Book X is a book from God
Book X says "if people in every country eat chocolate cake, you will have great power"
Group A reads this in Book X and sets out to get people in every country to eat chocolate cake.
Does this mean Book X is an amazing book with fulfilled prophecies?
No. It ends up being a bunch of people eating chocolate cake. Nothing more. You will see. It may not be until your deathbed, but you will see.
And we already have the commone ancestor. Shown it to you a million times. If you can find any evidence that contradicts evolution, actual evidence backed up by data, facts, etc. Please, give me this information. You claim you are smarter than biologists, archeologists, geneticists, astronomers, etc. Please bring us your data that shows we are wrong.
Just one tiny bit of evidence. It's not hard. Find a mammal fossil in the wrong place. Show the genetic evidence that contradicts evolution. Anything. It shouldn't be that hard. You claim the scientists don't know what they're doing. Please enlighten us. I'm quite certain geneticists would like to know what they are doing wrong.
Oh, that's right. You have nothing. Every single bit of evidence supports evolution, contradicts the bible and proves your beliefs wrong. All you have is a book that is inaccurate, contradicting, false and completely illogical.
But since you believe this book, all the data is wrong, even though you have nothing physical to prove the data wrong. Have fun eating that chocolate cake.
I have to disagree to some of the points to an extent. I'll try to write not from a spiritual/religious perspective.
Whether it is fact or opinion people are not perfect, they always make and continue to make mistakes. The only way to disprove this statement is to find a perfect human. There are tons of evidence that support that fact that people do in fact make mistakes, constantly, all the time.
But does it mean that there is absolutely no way there is a perfect person?
While I do not believe that there is no perfect person, that question is almost impossible to disprove. We would have to invent some sort of system/scale/rating and agree on some standard of what perfection is. Then we would have to visit every single human being on this earth while births and deaths are happening every day and use that scale on people. That sounds pretty improbable to accomplish.
Nothing is an end all be all. Math and numbers are not even exact. Science is always re-correcting itself. I.E. The brontosaurus, Thomas Edison and electricity, The Incas, etc.
After saying all that,
You cannot prove that Science is 100% accurate purely factual and correct. And the reason why it isn't, is because of us. We are flawed and what we touch becomes flawed. That does not mean we give up on science.
I cannot prove that Jesus was the Son of God and the Bible is a legit book regardless of its translation/scientific/human inaccuracies. All I can do is try my best to be there for you if are ever in need.
There is middle ground in this in a logical world. There is no Science vs. Religion. Both are flawed systems but they are useful systems.
LJ4ptplay
Starter
True. Science is imperfect. Science adjusts as it gains more information. That is a strength of science, not a weakness. Provide information, backed up by facts and evidence, and science will test it and verify it's validity.
The theory of evolution was developed over 100 years ago. Every single bit of evidence found since then has only supported and strengthened evolution. There has never been one shred, not the tiniest bit, of evidence that has contradicted evolution. Not one. And with the recent rise in genetic understanding and mapping of genomes, there leaves little doubt. All of our vaccines are developed through evolutionary theory. They would not work if evolution were false. 99% of scientists agree that evolution is a FACT. Beyond a reasonable doubt.
Does this mean we should throw away all of this knowledge because it contradicts a book?
No. On the contrary. Find evidence (actual evidence suported by verifiable data/testing) that contradicts evolution and supports this book. Or re-think the book. Then we can begin a discussion. Until then...what else do we have left? Words in a book contradicted by facts and evidence. Nothing more.
I agree there is evidence that supports evolution, however it is still a theory. If evolution was indeed proven, it wouldn't be a theory.
And the point of the bible isn't to disprove evolution.
The point of evolution isn't to disprove the bible.
People make it that.
Watchtower Bible & Tract Society looks to the year 2034?
The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society has hinted that they believe Armageddon will come in 2034.
In the 2003 December 15 Watchtower Magazine it says:
"Just think what that meant for those then living! Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring "the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the heavens."—Genesis 6:17.
"What about us? Some 90 years have passed since the last days of this system of things began in 1914. We are certainly in "the time of the end."
"In modern times, sincere students of the Bible have learned from the inspired Scriptures that this system is doomed to destruction."
"Jehovah has kept these warnings in front of his people by means of timely reminders through the spiritual food provided by "the faithful and discreet slave."
"This warning is not to be taken lightly. Almighty God always keeps his word. (Isaiah 55:10, 11)
He did in Noah's day, and he will in our day."
"Although the Flood seems remote from our day, it clearly provides a warning that we must not ignore."
"It is imperative that we "keep on the watch" and prove ourselves ready for Jehovah's day."
http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/2034.html
The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society has hinted that they believe Armageddon will come in 2034.
In the 2003 December 15 Watchtower Magazine it says:
"Just think what that meant for those then living! Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring "the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the heavens."—Genesis 6:17.
"What about us? Some 90 years have passed since the last days of this system of things began in 1914. We are certainly in "the time of the end."
"In modern times, sincere students of the Bible have learned from the inspired Scriptures that this system is doomed to destruction."
"Jehovah has kept these warnings in front of his people by means of timely reminders through the spiritual food provided by "the faithful and discreet slave."
"This warning is not to be taken lightly. Almighty God always keeps his word. (Isaiah 55:10, 11)
He did in Noah's day, and he will in our day."
"Although the Flood seems remote from our day, it clearly provides a warning that we must not ignore."
"It is imperative that we "keep on the watch" and prove ourselves ready for Jehovah's day."
http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/2034.html
Knicks4lyfe
Starter
No they don't. It will be here way before then, though.