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Thread: what does the bible really teach?

  1. #166
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    Uh, let's see.

    #1-You dodged all of the facts I presented, and you ignored the Biblical facts OGKnicksfan presented.
    Nonsense. I expounded on your facts by representing the proper viewpoint from the bible and organization. You blame the organization for adhering to the bibles viewpoint. If the bible did not say to abstain from eating blood, it would not be an issue. JW follow the bible. So the real problem you have is the fact that someone chooses to listen to God, and it's a problem for you, because you simply do not wish to listen to God. That's why I have told you to man up and admit what this is about. YOU NOT WANTING TO DO GOD'S WILL! That is what this is about. Not Facts. Not Millerites. ABCD NOT WANTING TO DO GOD'S WILL, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE. Point blank. JW do not live by anything other than the bible. For everything the Organization says is acceptable, or not, can be cited scripturally. That is not brainwashing, that is showing just cause, why one serving God should either do, or not, to please him. No Elder, or member of the Governing body make their own rules. We all rely on God's word.

    And no one dodged any biblical facts of OG. Because he does not have any. He views the bible from a mystical standpoint, whatever that is. That is his right, if that is what he chooses to do. However, JW read the bible from it's viewpoint, which is why Jehovah has granted us true understanding of his word. We are humble enough to listen to what he is saying, rather than our own spin. I mean seriously, how much of a spin job must one do on themselves to not clearly see that the Kingdom of God is an actual Kingdom, according to the bible? You really think all of the apostles were just making up the thought of actually leaving earth, and ruling as Kings with Jesus? No! They were made to understand that God's Kingdom is a real government, that will really rule over the earth. Not something that is mystically within a person. That's simply wrong! And not cuz I said it, but because it does not align with the consistent thought of those who mention it. They seem to think It's real, OG does not. JW side with them, because it appears to make way more sense.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    #2-Everything I posted was a fact. If it's not a fact, why can't you disprove it?
    Why do you dodge all of the questions?

    The answer is that Jehovah's Witnesses are instructed to use
    Theocratic Warfare(lying) in order to prevent "reproach" in their religion.

    You seem to think I have something personal against Jehovah's Witnesses, but yet you cannot present one insult that I said towards Witnesses.

    All of the facts I presented are about the Watchtower Society's treatment of its members and the mind control techniques used upon its members by the Governing body.

    But since you're taught to believe the Watchtower Society has exclusive access to the "truth", you feel threatened by the actual truth:

    "Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." Watchtower, December 1, 1981 p.27

    " But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us. Watchtower September 15,1989 p. 23


    The purpose of my posts is to inform people of the poor treatment the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses receive at the hands of the
    Watchtower Bible & Tract Society/Governing Body.

    You seem to exclude a lot of the things your religion teaches and does to its members which is unfair to the public.

    Good day.
    Again, they are facts. Cannot disprove Facts. However, your perception, and thoughts of these are skewed. You blame the organization, when really you shouldn't. There is biblical reasoning for every way JW choose to live. No blood, disfellowshipping, evasive actions, everything you've brought up. So really, you have a problem with God. Question him then. Ask him why he does not want those who love him to associate with his enemies, family or not. Ask him why to not eat blood. Ask him why it's ok to be evasive. But to be angry with the one organization that chooses to actually listen to God, is just silly.

    You would be better served trying to find something that has no biblical basis in our beliefs, if you are trying to tear us down. But since you only like to deal with facts, that won't happen. Because no such instance exists. But as usual, I'll wait!!!!!

  2. #167
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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    The problem I have encountered with many Jehovah's Witnesses' method of thinking is that they conflate God with "the organization." The organization is not, according to scripture, God: Jesus says that he is the way. Additionally, if "Christendom" is apostate, I do not know why the organization uses scripture selected for the bible by the Catholic Church.
    According to scripture, Jesus is not God either. And what you, and many others that have a problem with the organization fail to realize, is that Jehovah has ALWAYS had structure for his people. The made structure for the Israelites, and the early Christians had a governing body. What do the Israelites, early Christians and modern day Christians have in common? We all took the lead from God's word ultimately, and it was passed down to the masses through the structure within the organization. So when JW's mention the 'organization', it's always because iot is a theocratic arrangement. So it in effect is God's organization, just like the Israelites of old were.

    As far as Christendom and biblical quotes, every bible in the world is God's written word. Some bibles are translated with a certain tilt toward a viewpoint, whether it be trinitarian, olde english style, more legible for today's readers, what have you. But in the end, no matter what, if read with the theme of the bible in mind, any bible is God's word. The problem comes in when the theme is ignored.

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Surely, you should have God personally deliver a correct book to your people, if all other spirituality is false.
    All of the books are correct, however, jws will be biased towards the NWT. But it has been called the most accurate rendition on earth.

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    And, insofar as rules, you never answered my citations of scripture. They clearly state that the letter, ink, rules, etc., come from man and are not the way to communion with the divine, in Christianity.
    Who gave Moses the mosaic law? Was he talking to himself in third person, or was God instructing him? God right? So then tell me how these rules are man made? That alone is enough to dispell your veiwpoint. Clearly then, you either have missed what the writer was really saying, or just put your own spin on it.

    Also, the bible says here: 1 cor 6:9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men,

    This verse says that if one thinks they can do these things, and see God's kingdom, they are being mislead. So one can take it as a rule, that if you practice adultery, God will leave you out, correct? All the first century Christians lived to avoid these things to please God. Clearly these are in place a rules. Things to avoid. One cannot be unrighteous if there were no rules, or things that God says are bad. Therefore, one MUST follow the rules of righteousness in order to gain God's approval. There is no way around it, God has rules we must follow. Period. No mystical, philosophical viewpoint changes what's evident. You will die, if you do not live according to righteousness. That means following rules.


    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Like ABCD, my hope is that all religious people, JW's and otherwise, find real spirituality, not these controlling, fear-based gatherings, seen across the world.
    What is real spirituality, apart from the spirituality giver? Jehovah is spirituality. Therefore if you have found him, and serve him, there is no better place to be. Sounds to me this new age spirituality is freedom to be spiritual without having to listen to God. Because God has rules. God calls his people to gather. So again, your problem should be with God, not the ones trying to serve him. Be warned, you cannot win that argument though.

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Religion must serve God and spiritual people [of all faiths], not organizations or man's desire to control other men. Jesus called organizations to serve men, not the other way around:
    That is what JW do. Serve God and people. No one controls JW. We choose to serve God. That means living within his boundaries for humans. The elders live within them also. So does the governing body. So they do not control us. They are not in control. Jehovah is.



    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    EDIT: As for ABCD, he is trying, it is clear to me, to help you and other witnesses view others in a positive light, rather than as being in league with the devil. He also wants you to be healthy, physically and mentally. He has no other reason for posting what he has.
    What you guys don't get is that we don't look at people as in league with the devil. Not like we say "Og" is a devil worshipor. No. Being under influence, knowingly, or unknowingly is a dif deal altogether though. The bible says he runs the world. That means everything in it, he has control over it, other than God's organization. I mean, you read the bible, could Satan really offer Jesus all of the world's kingdoms if it was not his to give? And if he has that much power, has that changed? Would it be illogical to believe that he does not influence the world governments, which then means he is influencing people, knowingly, or unknowingly? If he can give the whole world to Jesus, would that also have meant the influence of those persons in those kingdoms? Obviously, right? So while I get people hate to hear that the devil has this influence, it is quite honestly the way it is.

    No, JW do not leave a persons door thinking "they are the devil" But when faced with opposition, we do realize how strong satan's world has a hold on people. Philosophy is a persons singular vp on a matter. The problem with it, is if it steers one away from God's vp, it's dangerous. That is what satan did. He came up with his own philosophy, which caused him to want to try God on for size. This is why JW cling to God's word and his sayings, because they are always true. Not so much for philosophy.

  3. #168
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    Notice how angry Knicks4lyfe gets when he's confronted with the truth.

    This is how the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to behave by the Governing body and the International Bible Students Association.

    Notice how my previous posts made no reference to God, yet Knicks4lyfe keeps saying that I do not want "to do God's Will" and that I "have a problem with God."

    The reason why Knicks4lyfe keeps accusing me and OGKnickfan of not wanting to do God's will and having a problem with God is because the Watchtower Society teaches the Jehovah's Witnesses to believe that the Governing body(men in suits) have direct access to God.

    They are taught to believe the governing body is God's channel and that what is written in the Watchtower is God's word, even if it isn't in the Bible. For ex: The Watchtower allows its members to receive fractional blood but forbids whole blood or entire individual components that make up blood. Nowhere in the Bible does it say fractional blood is good but whole blood is bad.

    It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose.”
    (1939 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses, p. 85)

    “It is through the columns of The Watchtower that Jehovah provides direction and constant Scriptural counsel to his people.”
    (The Watchtower, May 1,1964)

    " But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men[governing body] taking the lead among us."
    Watchtower September 15,1989 p. 23

    "God's Appointed Channel: Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an appointed channel of communication, "the faithful and discreet slave." That "slave" has the responsibility to determine what information is made available to the household of faith, as well as "the proper time" for it to be dispensed. This spiritual food is available only through the theocratic organization. We should always look to God's appointed channel for reliable information, not to a network of Internet users."
    Our Kingdom Ministry September 2002.

    According to the Jehovah's Witnesses, these people in the picture below have access to God and receive information directly from God to put in the Watchtower Magazines.

    Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
    Last edited by abcd; Feb 09, 2011 at 12:42.

  4. #169
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    Come on, you clownin now guy.

    No one is angry. But your arguments have already been refuted. Everything we follow is based on Jehovah's ways.

    No the bible does not say we can accept blood fractions. But we do know that Jehovah makes it do that fractions of blood are transferred from mother to child in the womb. So if he does that for every child born, why would that same process not be allowed for us if needed? So in the end JW are still trying to do things according to God. This decision was made with Jehovah in mind.

    And you're wrong, the bible teaches that God has always had structure. Jehovah always placed leaders over the flock. Jesus told his disciples to make more and he would be with them.

    Matthew 28:18,19,1,20
    18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

    19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,

    20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

    Was Jesus unorganized when he sent out his followers? No. Why would God's people not be organized? Those disciples Jesus spoke to, are of the governing body, or those who make up those who will rule with him. Therefore they are part of the structure he set up. God's channel. Whether u like it or not.

  5. #170
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    [quote=[B]Knicks4lyfe;[/b]156095]Come on, you clownin now guy.

    No one is angry. But your arguments have already been refuted. Everything we follow is based on Jehovah's ways. [quote]

    You use sarcasm but you are not angry. I'm sure everyone believes you're not angry when you use exclamation points and claim OGKnickfan has no knowledge about the Bible, even though he has direct quotes from the Bible.

    [quote=[B]Knicks4lyfe[/b];156095] No the bible does not say we can accept blood fractions. But we do know that Jehovah makes it do that fractions of blood are transferred from mother to child in the womb. So if he does that for every child born, why would that same process not be allowed for us if needed? So in the end JW are still trying to do things according to God. This decision was made with Jehovah in mind.[quote]

    More theocratic warfare propaganda.


    [quote=[B]Knicks4lyfe;[/b]156095] And you're wrong, the bible teaches that God has always had structure. Jehovah always placed leaders over the flock. Jesus told his disciples to make more and he would be with them.[quote]

    And you're wrong, the Bible doesn't say the Governing body of the Jehovah's Witnesses have access to God.

    [quote=Knicks4lyfe;156095]
    Matthew 28:18,19,1,20
    18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.[quote]

    Thank you for admitting the truth. The Bible says Jesus had the authority in the heaven and on the Earth.

    It did not say a governing body had the authority.

    Nice try, though. Theocratic warfare doesn't work on me.

    Originally Posted by knicks4lyfe
    Was Jesus unorganized when he sent out his followers? No. Why would God's people not be organized?
    Thanks for admitting you believe men in suits have direct access to God via channel.

  6. #171
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    "He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’
    Do NOT GO After Them."
    Luke 21:8 (New World Translation)

    Watchtower Society and Charles Taze Russell's Predictions:
    1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, 1994
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  7. #172
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    Jesus says the following about your attack on my knowledge of him...
    Matthew 5
    • "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
    Knicks4lyfe, you and all JW's I know say that you follow "the whole bible," implying others, who simply do not follow as you do, do not follow the bible correctly and are apostates.

    If that's the case, why do you use a bible which the Catholics assembled, by choosing the different scriptures contained in it? Why not follow the Greek Orthodox Bible, which contains many other books, not chosen for inclusion in the Catholic bible?

    Furthermore, by saying you follow "the whole bible," you are breaking the new covenant, in which Paul states a new covenant exists because the old one was wrong. The scriptures I posted, which you refuse to explain, prove this is the case. I also do not see Jehovah Witnesses observing sabbath, which is required by the old testament scriptures.

    As for mysticism, if you research it, Christianity is mystical in nature. The early Christians, which Jehovah Witnesses claim to be descended from, were mystics. If you really care about worshiping God and not merely obeying the Jehovah's Witnesses, you would take the time to either verify or disprove both the scripture posted, which says you are not to follow "the whole bible" and the meaning of mysticism (which involves direct experience, in the present, of divinity).

    And you continue to say that what you are commanded to do by elders makes sense, while I don't [when I have not commanded you to do anything]. I am not asking you to follow me. I am asking you to follow Christ and his apostle's message to love and be merciful. And this means following what makes sense to Christ, not to yourself or other men.

    So... why won't you answer these scriptures in the context of rules, mysticism (i.e., direct experience of God) and a true Christian being commanded by men, i.e., the governing body?
    • 1 Thessalonians Chapter 1:4 For we know, brothers and sisters[[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]] loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. 6 You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.
    • Colossians 2: 20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.
    • Hebrews 8: 13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
    • Hebrews 8: 7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
    • 2 Corinthians Chapter 3:You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    These scriptures tell us that one is not to follow the whole bible, that the old covenant was wrong, that this new covenant is mystical, i.e., something "not of the letter," i.e., not contained in any books, scrolls, tablets, or magazines, but written on "tablets of human hearts."

    The holy spirit, via the apostle, goes as far as telling us that the letter (i.e., written language) kills, while the spirit "gives life," or brings us true spirituality. Because your books, just like those of any other legalistic religion, cannot embody this mystical union, you are deprived of a true connection with God.


    Last edited by OGKnickfan; Feb 12, 2011 at 14:03.

  8. #173
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    [quote=abcd;156096]You use sarcasm but you are not angry. I'm sure everyone believes you're not angry when you use exclamation points and claim OGKnickfan has no knowledge about the Bible, even though he has direct quotes from the Bible.[quote] So exclamation points mean anger? What if I was laughing my butt off? And just because you cut and paste scriptures, does not mean you have real biblical knowledge, much less accurate knowledge. And he does not apply biblical verses correctly, evidenced by the fact he thinks God's Kingdom is within people, when clearly Jesus, the apostles and the whole book of revelation say otherwise.





    Originally Posted by abcd
    And you're wrong, the Bible doesn't say the Governing body of the Jehovah's Witnesses have access to God.
    It does not directly say that if Adam would not have eaten from the tree, he would have continued to live, either. But that is where common sense comes in. Point is, it does not have to directly say that. But Jesus did say that those making disciples, teaching others to observe all of his commandments, would have his blessing. Only JW's are doing that in the world today. Therefore, Jesus is with them. Therefore, they are in effect, God's chosen people.

    [quote=abcd;156096][quote=Knicks4lyfe;156095]
    Matthew 28:18,19,1,20
    18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

    Thank you for admitting the truth. The Bible says Jesus had the authority in the heaven and on the Earth.

    It did not say a governing body had the authority.

    Nice try, though. Theocratic warfare doesn't work on me.



    Thanks for admitting you believe men in suits have direct access to God via channel.
    The governing body does not claim to have authority. They give all praise to Jehovah and his son. They are merely acting as the structure here on earth that Jehovah and his Son have chosen to work through.

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    Og, gimme a day or so, I wanna do extensive research on this. Get back to you asap.

  10. #175
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    Default Are the Jehovah's Witnesses a Unique organization?

    Millerite Movement
    Q: What is the Millerite Movement?
    A: The Millerite Movement was a group of people who under William Miller's guidance believed Armageddon would come in 1844.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    When the end did not come, William Miller admitted he was wrong and went about his way.

    But would this be the end of false prediction? No.

    Q: What Christian denominations came from the Millerite Movement?
    A: Seventh-Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Church of God(Seventh Day). Several other small denominations came out of the Millerite Movement, too.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Q: When were these denominations formed?
    A: Seventh-Day Adventists(1844), Church of God: Seventh Day(1858), Jehovah's Witnesses(1881)

    In 1844 William Miller stepped down from making predictions, but Ellen G. White did not want to end all hope.

    So she recruited thousands of members and created a “Shut Door Policy.”

    The Shut Door Policy is identical to the Jehovah's Witnesses belief that at Armageddon only the Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved.

    In Ellen G. White's policy, she stated that only Adventists would be saved and that anyone who did not join would perish forever.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    White predicted Jesus would “visibly” return in 1844, just like Charles Taze Russell(founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses) predicted Jesus would visibly return in 1874.

    But when her prediction did not come true, she changed her prediction and stated that Jesus had started his “investigative judgement” “invisibly” in 1844, which is very similar to the Jehovah's Witnesses prediction that Jesus “invisibly” took his throne in 1914 AFTER Russell was wrong about Jesus “visibly” returning in 1874. It is also identical to the "investigative judgement" that Jehovah's Witnesses claim occured from 1914-1919.

    "Anointed Christians who survived the testing period of 1914-19 were freed from the dominating influence of the world and from many Babylonish religious practices. The remnant went forward as a cleansed and refined people, willingly offering sacrifices of praise to God and having the assurance that they as a people were acceptable to him." ”Watchtower 1998 May 15 p.17

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Ellen G. White created a large amount of beliefs, and Charles Taze Russell would “borrow” heavily from her teachings.

    1. Ellen G. White believed the other non-adventist churches were under the power of Satan. To this day Adventists secretly believe the Catholic church is “the whore of Babylon.”
    "Here we find the mark of the beast. The very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, on the part of the Catholic church, without any authority from the Bible."-Ellen G. White
    This is identical the the Watchtower's teachings that the non-Witness churches are under the power of Satan.

    "Is it presumptuous of Jehovah's Witnesses to point out that they alone have God's backing? Actually, no more so than when the Israelites in Egypt claimed to have God's backing in spite of the Egyptians' belief, or when the first-century Christians claimed to have God's backing to the exclusion of Jewish religionists." Watchtower 2001 June 1 p.16

    Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep. 1 p.19


    But wait, Ellen G. White began the Adventist movement in 1844, and Charles Taze Russell didn't start the Zion's Watchtower until 1881. Something is fishy here.

    Let's do a comparison of the Seventh-Day Adventist(EST 1844) original beliefs and the Jehovah's Witnesses(EST 1881) original beliefs:

    Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) accept and donate blood?
    Yes(the JW would go back and forth and back and forth and back and forth with their blood policy, but they currently do not allow blood transfusions).
    Watchtower quotes

    Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) believe in the Trinity?
    No. (in 1980 , the SDA church officially accepted the trinity, although they still believe Jesus is the archangel Michael, just like the JW religion).

    Did the original SDA(Est. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) believe that Jesus was the archangel Michael?
    Yes(both still believe this to be true).

    Did the original SDA(Est. 1844) and JW(Est. 1881) believe that salvation comes from works and faith, with works being a major requirement?
    Yes, both still hold this belief.

    Did the original SDA(Est. 1844) and JW(Est. 1881) disfellowship and shun family members and friends for questioning one or more of their beliefs or not attending meetings regularly?
    Yes(The Seventh-Day Adventists are no longer told to shun family members, but they still practice disfellowshipping. The Jehovah's Witnesses still practice both).

    'You have seen the benefit of godly love, but do you know how to hate? These very strong words are an expression of godly hate, and you too must have this quality to be pleasing to God. Hate causes a feeling of disgust to well up inside you. You loathe, abhor, despise the object of your hatred Godly hatred never has as its object our Christian brothers, no matter how imperfect.' The Watchtower, July 15, 1974, page 442

    "Love your enemies. ... Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned."
    Luke 6: 26 - 37

    Did the original SDA(EST 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) believe that the members of their religion's bodies are asleep until Armageddon?
    Yes, both still hold this belief.

    Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(Est. 1881) preach door to door?
    Yes, both groups still preach door to door. SDA's and JW's preach on Saturday morning.
    They both will have magazines and Bibles, when they go to your door, although Jehovah's Witnesses are more prone to using Theocratic Warfare since it's included in their doctrine.

    Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) believe in eternal hell?
    No. (SDAs and Jws believe non-members are put to death by God at Armageddon).

    Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW (EST. 1881) believe in celebrating holidays?
    Yes.

    Contrary to popular beliefs, Jehovah's Witnesses frequently celebrated holidays that they refer to today as pagan. While SDAs still consider holidays pagan, they usually have celebrations during some holidays without acknowledging any significance for the day.

    "What caused the Bible Students to stop celebrating Christmas? Richard H. Barber gave this answer: "I was asked to give an hour talk over a [radio] hookup on the subject of Christmas. It was given December 12, 1928, and published in The Golden Age #241 and again a year later in #268. That talk pointed out the pagan origin of Christmas. After that, the brothers at Bethel never celebrated Christmas again."
    Yearbook 1975 p.147

    In fact, Charles Taze Russell has a pagan symbol AND A CHRISTMAS WREATH on his grave site.




    Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) badmouth Catholics and other denominations?
    Yes. Both the SDA books and JW Watchtower Magazines frequently talk negatively of other denominations to this day, especially the Catholic Church.
    "Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep. 1 p.19

    Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) believe Christ would visibly return?
    Yes. Ellen G. White predicted it would happen in 1844 and then backpedaled and claimed it was the start of Jesus' invisible investigative judgment. Charles Taze Russell changed his 1874 visible return of Christ into Jesus' invisible return of Christ in 1874 and then when his Armageddon prediction was wrong in 1914 changed his prediction to Jesus' invisible rule over the heavens.

    Do the SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) refer to themselves as being “remnant?”
    Yes. Both groups claim to be the “chosen ones.
    "Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep. 1 p.19

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ])

    Do SDAs(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) promote healthy eating and instruct their members on how to dress and groom themselves?
    Yes. SDAs created many vegetarian cereals and canned products from Kellogs and Loma Linda, and many of their members exclude some or all meat and seafood from their diets. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that in paradise, the animals and humans will live in peace and will therefore be vegetarian.
    SDAs and JW both have dress codes and encourage the members to shave.

    Do SDAs(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) have magazines and other types of literature that they use along with the bible?
    Yes, although SDAs use the King James Bible and do not believe their magazines have exclusive truth. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Watchtower & Awake magazines are a prerequisite to salvation and using the New World Translation alone is a sin.

    "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude. ...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home." --The Watchtower, August 15, 1981, page 28-29



    Do SDAs(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) have baptism through full immersion?
    Yes.

    It's almost like Charles Taze Russell copied the vast majority of his beliefs from Ellen G. White.

    Watchtower Society claims everyone except them will die in 1975. We are now in the year 2011.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    The Link between the Millerite Movement and the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society:
    William Miller used arithmetic to come up with his 1843 and 1844 end of the world prediction.
    What did the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society use? Arithmetic.

    "But it requires 457 full years before Christ, and 1843 full years after Christ [457+ 1843]
    to make the 2300. Now the decree of Artaxerxes did not go into effect at the beginning of the year 457 B.C., but in the autumn of that year[+ 9 months]; it follows that the 2300 days would not terminate in 1843, but would extend to the autumn of 1844."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    New World Translation Bible:
    "Chronology: A. 1914(CE) ends Gentile Times: 1. Line of Kingdom rulers interrupted in 607 B.C.E.
    "Seven Times" to pass until rule restored. Seven=2 X 3 1/2, or 2 X 1,260 days. A day for a year[makes 2,520 years] to run until kingdom's establishment."

    These are the Bible quotes the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society uses to manipulate the truth and pretend their arithmetic has anything to do with the Bible.

    But notice how none of the Bible quotes say 1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, or 1994.

    But Luke 21:8 of the New World Translation does say this, "Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name saying, "I am he" and, "The due time has approached." DO NOT GO AFTER THEM."
    Last edited by abcd; Feb 12, 2011 at 11:16.

  11. #176
    KnicksonLIN.com
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    It does not directly say that if Adam would not have eaten from the tree, he would have continued to live, either. But that is where common sense comes in. Point is, it does not have to directly say that. But Jesus did say that those making disciples, teaching others to observe all of his commandments, would have his blessing. Only JW's are doing that in the world today. Therefore, Jesus is with them. Therefore, they are in effect, God's chosen people.
    It does directly say this:
    "He said: Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’
    Do not go after them."
    Luke 21:8(New World Translation)

    Jehovah's Witness end of the world predictions:
    1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, 1994
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    I presented the facts with sources to back them up. Knicks4lyfe claimed OGKnickfan had no biblical knowledge and that I learned zero.

    But surprisingly, the both of us have many quotes and sources to back up what we are saying.

    And yet Knicks4lyfe seems to keep quoting from the same Watchtower literature.

  12. #177
    KnicksonLIN.com
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    Notice how angry Knicks4lyfe gets when he's confronted with the truth.

    This is how the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to behave by the Governing body and the International Bible Students Association.

    Notice how my previous posts made no reference to God, yet Knicks4lyfe keeps saying that I do not want "to do God's Will" and that I "have a problem with God."

    The reason why Knicks4lyfe keeps accusing me and OGKnickfan of not wanting to do God's will and having a problem with God is because the Watchtower Society teaches the Jehovah's Witnesses to believe that the Governing body(men in suits) have direct access to God.

    They are taught to believe the governing body is God's channel and that what is written in the Watchtower is God's word, even if it isn't in the Bible. For ex: The Watchtower allows its members to receive fractional blood but forbids whole blood or entire individual components that make up blood. Nowhere in the Bible does it say fractional blood is good but whole blood is bad.

    It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose.”
    (1939 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses, p. 85)

    “It is through the columns of The Watchtower that Jehovah provides direction and constant Scriptural counsel to his people.”
    (The Watchtower, May 1,1964)

    " But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men[governing body] taking the lead among us."
    Watchtower September 15,1989 p. 23

    "God's Appointed Channel: Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an appointed channel of communication, "the faithful and discreet slave." That "slave" has the responsibility to determine what information is made available to the household of faith, as well as "the proper time" for it to be dispensed. This spiritual food is available only through the theocratic organization. We should always look to God's appointed channel for reliable information, not to a network of Internet users."
    Our Kingdom Ministry September 2002.

    According to the Jehovah's Witnesses, these people in the picture below have access to God and receive information directly from God to put in the Watchtower Magazines.

    Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
    The facts were presented.

  13. #178
    KnicksonLIN.com
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    Top ten contradictions of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
    10. Jehovah's Witnesses are against abortion, but they support denying babies life saving blood transfusions.
    "With you is the source of life.Psalm 36:9(New World Translation)Life, then, is a gift from God."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    "Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, 20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood."
    Acts 15:19-20(New World Translation)
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    9. Jehovah's Witnesses are against blood transfusions, but as of 2000 support receiving and donating "fractional blood." Where's the quote where Jehovah says blood is bad, unless it's fractional? I do not know.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    According to the JW's history, they willingly accepted and donated blood until 1945.


    8. Charles Taze Russell, the Watchtower Society, and many members of the Jehovah's Witnesses have made a combined 10 false end of the world predictions: 1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, and 1994, but they claim the "governing body" is the mouthpiece for Jehovah God.

    7. The Jehovah's Witnesses(Est. 1881) claim to be "God's channel" yet 90% of their beliefs are the same as the Seventh-Day Adventist's beliefs(Est. 1844).
    Ex: SDA's(Est. 1844) believe salvation is through works and faith; JW's(1881) believe the exact same thing. SDA's(Est. 1844) believe Jesus is the archangel Michael; JW's(Est. 1881) believe the exact same thing. SDA's believe holidays are of pagan origin; JW's believe the exact same thing. SDA's believe Hell is not real; JW's believe the same thing. SDA's believe they are the only true Christians; JW's believe the same thing.

    6. Jehovah's Witnesses believe everyone outside of their religion is "worldly" and "under the power of Satan" yet they work in Government jobs, attend public school, and eat at fast food restaurants.

    5. Jehovah's Witnesses are against Catholicism, yet from 1960 to 1983, the Jehovah's Witnesses Governing Body used a Catholic Spirit Medium(Johannes Greber's) interpretation of the Bible to support their New World Translation.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    4. Jehovah's Witnesses claim they do not support judging others:
    "Jesus said that we should not be judging one another."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Yet in their April 15, 2008 study edition of their Watchtower Magazine, it says the following: "Another example of valueless words is found among the leaders of Christendom. Those claim to speak in God's name, but most of their utterances are not based on the Scriptures, and what they are saying is basically worthless. In other words, the governing body believes what the other denominations (Catholics, SDA's, Mormons, Baptists, Pentecostals) have to say is worthless.
    The April 15, 2008 study edition of the Watchtower Magazine goes on to say: "Apostates too speak valuless words."

    3. Jehovah's Witnesses claim you can come and leave the Jehovah's Witnesses as you please, but the governing body disfellowships people from their entire family, friends, spouses, and children if they choose to no longer believe or join another Christian denomination.

    2. Most Jehovah's Witnesses will claim they are not brainwashed.
    However, the Watchtower Society supports brainwashing.
    "A musician who had lived the unreal life on drugs began studying the Bible With Jehovah's Witnesses. His associates ridiculed him, taunting "You are being brainwashed." He aptly[appropriately] replied: The shape our brains are in, they need a good washing."
    Watchtower, March 15, 1973 Page 186-187 Paragraph 27

    1. The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the "only true Christians" and
    "the only right religion." They even believe all other non-witnesses and religions are under the power of Satan. Yet, at the same time, when you point out their failed predictions & their child molestation incidents, they claim to not be perfect.


    Most Witnesses are unaware of this, however, the first President of the Jehovah's Witnesses was "William Henry Conley."

    Q: Why do Jehovah's Witnesses deny William Henry Conley was their first president?

    A: William Henry Conley stopped believing in Russell's teachings, after his failed prophecies in 1874, 1878, and 1881. AND Conley donated money to non-Witness denominations.

    That's right, folks. The very first President of the Jehovah's Witnesses chose to no longer believe in the Jehovah's Witness religion, after he had discovered Charles Taze Russell scammed him out of 1,000s of dollars in "donations" that he gave after being told Armageddon would come in 1881. In 1882, Conley stopped handing Russell donations, and his name was mysteriously no longer listed as the first president of the Watchtower.
    Yet they are "the only true Christians."

    In addition, Conley donated money to Christian denominations that Jehovah's Witnesses of today claim are "false and part of "Christendom."
    The top 10 contradictions

  14. #179
    KnicksonLIN.com
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    No the bible does not say we can accept blood fractions. But we do know that Jehovah makes it do that fractions of blood are transferred from mother to child in the womb. So if he does that for every child born, why would that same process not be allowed for us if needed?
    Consolation 12/25/1940, page 19: Blood transfusions spoken of as favorable.

    Watchtower 7/1/1945, page 201: Blood officially banned in 1945.

    Awake! 01/08/1954, page 24 : Disallowed the use of blood fractions.

    Watchtower 9/15/1958, page 575: Changed policy allows use of blood fractions.

    Watchtower 10/15/1959, page 640: No storage of blood before an operation.

    Watchtower 9/15/1961, pages 558-599: Disallowed blood fractions.

    Watchtower 11/15/1964, pages 680-683: Now allows blood fractions.

    Watchtower 1967 No longer Permits Organ Transplants.


    Awake 2/22/1975, page 30: Hemophilia treatment condemned

    Watchtower 06/15/1978, pages 29-31: Hemophilia treatments allowed now.

    Watchtower 6/15/1985, page 30: Factor VIII not allowed (from plasma pooled from as many as 2 500 blood donors)


    Watchtower 3/1/1989, pages 30 & 31: Blood outside body permitted using dialysis.

    Watchtower 6/15/2000, pages 29-31: Blood fractions from blood components allowed

    The Governing body continues to flip flop, yet they claim to be
    "God's appointed channel."

    Our Kingdom Ministry September 2002 (For Britain) p. 8
    5 God's Appointed Channel:Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an appointed channel of communication, "the faithful and discreet slave." That "slave" has the responsibility to determine what information is made available to the household of faith, as well as "the proper time" for it to be dispensed. This spiritual food is available only through the theocratic organization. We should always look to God's appointed channel for reliable information, not to a network of Internet users.




    P.S.-The Watchtower Society claimed the United Nations was "the wild beast," but they joined the United Nations in 1992. Hypocrisy exposed.
    The wild beast represents the United Nations organization... Thus the modern-day Assyrian (nations associated with the UN) will deal Christendom a mighty blow and will crush her out of her existence.”—[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    "Recently the NGO Section has been receiving numerous inquires regarding the association of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York with the Department of Public Information (DPI). This organization applied for association with DPI in 1991 and was granted association in 1992.
    This news was shocking to individual Jehovah’s Witnesses who discovered the Society’s involvement with what they viewed as the “image of the wild beast.” They immediately began to question the Watchtower Society’s intentions concerning the United Nations. In response, the Watchtower Society quickly disassociated itself from the UN in October of 2001."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Last edited by abcd; Feb 11, 2011 at 23:34.

  15. #180
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    the Watchtower Society teaches the Jehovah's Witnesses to believe that the Governing body(men in suits) have direct access to God.

    They are taught to believe the governing body is God's channel and that what is written in the Watchtower is God's word, even if it isn't in the Bible. For ex: The Watchtower allows its members to receive fractional blood but forbids whole blood or entire individual components that make up blood. Nowhere in the Bible does it say fractional blood is good but whole blood is bad.


    I've read about this. Absolutely amazing/twisted and frightening. The Lord truly is a shepherd.

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