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Thread: what does the bible really teach?

  1. #226
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Every thing you've ever shown me was either a monkey, or a man. No monkey can produce a man, or vice versa. So how is it you stand here and say you've shown me the common ancestor? Can I call it a tweener? Where is the homie?
    Gee. You know. Your species classification techniques are really interesting. Can you please explain how you derived this? What are your methods?

    Since you are better at classifying than biologists, archeologists, geneticists, please, tell us your methods. I'm quite sure they would want to know why they were misclassifying the species.


    Can you please point out where the monkey ends and the human begins in the image below. And please explain what your methods were for deducing this. Thank you.


    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Feb 16, 2011 at 16:40.

  2. #227
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    No they don't. It will be here way before then, though.
    Originally Posted by abcd
    The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society has hinted that they believe Armageddon will come in 2034.

    In the 2003 December 15 Watchtower Magazine it says:
    "Just think what that meant for those then living! Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring "the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the heavens."—Genesis 6:17.

    "What about us? Some 90 years have passed since the last days of this system of things began in 1914. We are certainly in "the time of the end."

    "In modern times, sincere students of the Bible have learned from the inspired Scriptures that this system is doomed to destruction."

    "Jehovah has kept these warnings in front of his people by means of timely reminders through the spiritual food provided by "the faithful and discreet slave."

    "This warning is not to be taken lightly. Almighty God always keeps his word. (Isaiah 55:10, 11)
    He did in Noah's day, and he will in our day."


    "Although the Flood seems remote from our day, it clearly provides a warning that we must not ignore."

    "It is imperative that we "keep on the watch" and prove ourselves ready for Jehovah's day."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    There you have it. It's in writing. The Watchtower Society believes Armageddon is destined to come by the year 2034.

    Knicks4lyfe claims Armageddon will come "way before then."

    I think it's safe to say the Earth will continue to exist long after 2020 or 2034.

  3. #228
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Says YOU, based on YOUR interpretations of the bible. The same thing said by every other religious group. Prove muslims are not the true followers of god based on THEIR version. Not yours, but theirs. Guess what? You can't do it.
    Why? That's all I need to go by. Jehovah says he will bring nations together in peace, in worship and love of him, during the time of the end, and look! It's happened. If God, of any religious faction is supposed to be of peace, would you not expect his followers to adhere to such? You really think you can say that about Muslims? There are other factors. But this is the biggie. It's not a knock on all of the muslim faction, but for the most part, it is not considered a peaceful religious faction. Just look around. Why would their God want his people blowing themselves up, killing innocents in the process? Jehovah does not ask that of his people. He says "Vengeance is his" and tells us to stand down and watch him fight for us.

    Huge difference between the God of the Q'uran and the God of the Bible.

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    And you use the word "witness" as proof. When that is from YOUR version of the bible. Rather convenient, don't you think. In other versions, it is translated as "testimony" and is used in a completely different context. You change the translation/context how you see fit.

    So if there was a group called "Jehovah's Testimony", that did everything in the bible based on THEIR interpretation, suddenly THEY are the greatest group. Prove they aren't based on THEIR version. Guess what, you can't..
    Testimony is giving a witness. stop it. Strawman.

    The bible, even those with flawed translations, is still God's word. Only those with other agendas rather than keeping it abt the bible's theme, have issues. Therefore there is no "using things in a completely different context", if the theme is kept in mind. It's a simple, but very important thing.

    For instance, I encounter people who will only use the KJ version bible. But I can still get my point across very well, even though that particular translation is geared toward a trinitarian viewpoint. So long as the them of the bible is in tact, the translation is irrelevant.



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Meanwhile, I am supposed to give up everything we know as fact, because a book that thinks bats are birds, rabbits chew cud, men can live in the belly of fish, which the person I'm supposed to worship thought a whale was a fish, and that 15 million indiviuals can all fit on a boat, and that two individuals of a complex species can create an entire population, and a snake can talk, a perfect being didn't get what he wanted, etc, etc etc.

    2 + 2 = 4.

    If a book says 2 + 2 = 5, I consider that book to not be a good reference to cite.

    If you want to say 2 + 2 = 5, provide data that supports that theory. If you can't. Be quiet on the subject. Don't tell people to give up math and follow your world. Go live your crazy, delusional, fantasy on your own.
    Really some of your arguments are more symantics than anything. I'm sorry, it's irrelevant if a bat is a bird or a mammal biblically speaking, because it looks like a bird. Jehovah has no need to distinguish that a bat is not a bird, when the purpose of his book is to save lives, not be 1000000000 % scientifically correct. If he had it written today, with the info we have, and understandings we have, then I could see. But then, some in the world thought 4 turtles were holding up the earth. So your arguments are trivial.

    The snake didn't talk, Satan used it as his mouthpiece. God gets everything he wants. You just simply lack understanding. That bothers you, I know. But it's true. It's over your head.

    And as far as I'm concerned, you're the one with the 2 + 2 = 5 theory, cuz they ain't found your cousin, don't know why we die, athiestic rule does not mean peace on earth, Monkeys can't birth humans, humans can't birth monkeys, Carbon dating is flawed, No one was around to witness what happened 15k years ago, let alone hundreds of thousands and millions, Human history dates back accurately more so along biblical guidlines, rather than the hunter gatherer era. Yet, you take issue with the bible saying bats are birds. *shrugs*

    We are at a wait and see empasse. Wait and see we shall.

    P.S. Isa 40:
    22 [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Wrong about the bible again.

  4. #229
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Gee. You know. Your species classification techniques are really interesting. Can you please explain how you derived this? What are your methods?

    Since you are better at classifying than biologists, archeologists, geneticists, please, tell us your methods. I'm quite sure they would want to know why they were misclassifying the species.


    Can you please point out where the monkey ends and the human begins in the image below. And please explain what your methods were for deducing this. Thank you.


    Cut it all out. What is this called so I can look it up?

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    Originally Posted by abcd
    There you have it. It's in writing. The Watchtower Society believes Armageddon is destined to come by the year 2034.

    Knicks4lyfe claims Armageddon will come "way before then."

    I think it's safe to say the Earth will continue to exist long after 2020 or 2034.
    Like I said, you learned nothing in your studies. Gotta be humble.

    The first verse said this "Just think what that meant for those then living! Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring "the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the heavens."—Genesis 6:17.

    Those then living were those in Noah's day. From the time God told him to build the ark til the flood was 120 years. That has nothing to do with the time mandated for us. Our time frame in on a different plane altogether. Our time is based on the preaching work being completed as stated in Mat 24:14, and the generation of the the annointed passing off as well. Or were you sleeping at the meeting when this was explained? Hmm

    And why do you think the earth won't be here? Geeezzzzz!!! Of all the things to learn about Jehovah's witnesses, one of rudimentary parts of JW faith is that the earth will never be blown up, or destroyed. Or were you again, sleeping at the many so called meetings you attended with Jw's? Lemme refresh your memory.

    Ecc 1:4 A generation is going, and a generation is coming; but the earth is standing even to time indefinite

    How about this one? Psl 104:5 He has founded the earth upon its established places;It will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever


    Yea, apparently you learned SOOOO MUCH in all that time you supposedly "Studied" with JW's.

    Man up.

  6. #231
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Like I said, you learned nothing in your studies. Gotta be humble.
    Like I said, you believe the Armageddon is coming "way before" 2034 as you stated.

    What are you going to do on January 1st, 2035 when nothing has happened?

    P.S.-You obviously did not read my post in its entirety.

    The Watchtower article CONNECTS the time of Noah to the present.

  7. #232
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    True. I agree. I do think the bible's statements about the origins of life and the universe need to be adjusted though.



    This is not true. Still calling evolution a theory is a testament to the greatness of science. In order for evolution to be taken out of the "theory" category, it must be tested. Since evolution occurred over 4 billion years ago, and is still occurring now, over a very long period of time, much longer than a human lifetime, it is impossible to actually test evolution in a laboratory.

    Gravitational Theory, or The Universal Theory of Gravity is taught in schools as fact. Does this mean gravity is not proven and should not be taught in schools? Do you believe gravity is false?

    Don't get caught up in nomenclature. Stick to the evidence.
    And yet there are scientists who argue that the Gravitational Theory is still not fact and it is incomplete.

    I'm not here to disprove scientific theories I'm just here to point out that what you or others call fact could be still wrong.

    Just like Theory of Evolution is not 100%.

    There is evidence that supports it, and thats it. It does not make it a fact.

    I could agree that there is hard evidence out there that supports evolution, gravity, etc then the bible/religion/God; however, it still does not make it 100% fact.

    On my edit: I really appreciate the discussion.
    Last edited by Blas; Feb 16, 2011 at 17:48.

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    Originally Posted by abcd
    Like I said, you believe the Armageddon is coming "way before" 2034 as you stated.

    What are you going to do on January 1st, 2035 when nothing has happened?

    P.S.-You obviously did not read my post in its entirety.

    The Watchtower article CONNECTS the time of Noah to the present.
    It does in certain senses, but not in the sense of 120 years. You learned nothing.

  9. #234
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    Knicks4lyfe, read the part of the Watchtower article below that says
    "Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring "the deluge of waters"

    AND

    "Some 90 years have passed since the last days...in 1914"

    AND

    "This warning is not to be taken lightly"

    The Watchtower article clearly connects the 120 years of Noah and the times of the flood to 1914 and the present.

    And you already stated, you believe Armageddon will come "way before" 2034.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society has hinted that they believe Armageddon will come in 2034.

    In the 2003 December 15 Watchtower Magazine it says:
    "Just think what that meant for those then living! Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring "the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the heavens."—Genesis 6:17.

    "What about us? Some 90 years have passed since the last days of this system of things began in 1914. We are certainly in "the time of the end."

    "In modern times, sincere students of the Bible have learned from the inspired Scriptures that this system is doomed to destruction."

    "Jehovah has kept these warnings in front of his people by means of timely reminders through the spiritual food provided by "the faithful and discreet slave."

    "This warning is not to be taken lightly. Almighty God always keeps his word. (Isaiah 55:10, 11)
    He did in Noah's day, and he will in our day."


    "Although the Flood seems remote from our day, it clearly provides a warning that we must not ignore."

    "It is imperative that we "keep on the watch" and prove ourselves ready for Jehovah's day."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

  10. #235
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    Knicks4lyfe, read the part of the Watchtower article below that says
    "Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring "the deluge of waters"

    AND

    "Some 90 years have passed since the last days...in 1914"

    AND

    "This warning is not to be taken lightly"

    The Watchtower article clearly connects the 120 years of Noah and the times of the flood to 1914 and the present.

    And you already stated, you believe Armageddon will come "way before" 2034.
    This article was to show that God fulfills his promises. He said a flood would come. Imagine being Noah and you're building an ark for 120 years before it actually happens, when it had never even rained before. The people in Noah's day had to doubled over in tears laughing at Noah for saying God would make it rain. That is why no one got on it.

    The parallel for us is the same. Jesus said it would be like Noahs day, men were busy marrying, partying, and having a good time, taking no note, until the flood came. Today, you see that happening. JW's knock at your door telling you God's Kingdom will soon act, people hide behind couches, doors, ignore it, party, have a good time... Up until the end. The point was for God's people to not lose faith because Jehovah's day has not come yet. Because like Noah's day, it will certainly come to pass.

    That is the parallel. Nothing in that article said the end will be here by 2034. You pulled that outcha butt.

  11. #236
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    This article was to show that God fulfills his promises. He said a flood would come. Imagine being Noah and you're building an ark for 120 years before it actually happens, when it had never even rained before. The people in Noah's day had to doubled over in tears laughing at Noah for saying God would make it rain. That is why no one got on it.
    You pulled that outcha butt.
    You claimed that Armageddon would come "way before" 2034.

    What are you going to do on January 1st, 2021 when Armageddon does not come?

    What are you going to do on January 1st, 2035 when Armageddon does not come?

    P.S.-Don't think I haven't caught on to your use of Theocratic Warfare(lying).

    Anyone with eyes can see that the article says "He did it in Noah's day, and he will in our day."
    Last edited by abcd; Feb 16, 2011 at 17:57.

  12. #237
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    You claimed that Armageddon would come "way before 2034."

    What are you going to do on January 1st, 2021 when Armageddon does not come?

    What are you going to do on January 1st, 2035 when Armageddon does not come?

    P.S.-Don't think I haven't caught on to your use of Theocratic Warfare(lying).
    This system won't be here in 2035. The remnant of the 144k are down to very little. Bible said before they die off, some of them will live to see the end. They are very old. They don't have 21 years. So it won't be here. So If Jehovah spares me, I will likely be on my way to perfection by those dates.

    And there are no lies being told. But like LJ, it's over your head. You ain't learned nothin.

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    Default Russell Disclaimed Being a Prophet

    Originally Posted by abcd
    A: Russell's teachings, after his failed prophecies in 1874, 1878, and 1881.
    The fact is that Russell never made any prophecies at all; none about 1874, none about 1878, none about 1881. Russell disclaimed that his expectations, or any statements of his expectations, concerning any date, was to be considered prophecy.

    In 1890, Russell wrote:

    Our own views are not prophecy, but interpretations of the holy prophets of old. — Watch Tower, October 1890, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    In 1893, Russell wrote:

    Neither must you lean upon the DAWN [now called "Studies in the Scriptures"] and the TOWER as infallible teachers. If it was proper for the early Christians to prove what they received from the apostles, who were and who claimed to be inspired, how much more important it is that you fully satisfy yourself that these teachings keep closely within their outline instructions and those of our Lord;–since their author claims no inspiration, but merely the guidance of the Lord, as one used of him in feeding his flock. -- Watch Tower, June 1893 pg. 168.

    1906:

    We preach not ourself but Christ. We substantiate nothing except by his Word. We make no laws, formulate no creed, deprive no sheep of his full liberty in Christ; but merely on every question quote the Word of the Lord, through the apostles and prophets. We boast nothing, claim nothing of ourself. -- Watch Tower, January 1, 1906 pg. 20.

    1907:

    We have urged and still urge that the dear children of God read studiously what we have presented;–the Scriptures, the applications and interpretations–and then form their own judgments. We neither urge nor insist upon our views as infallible, nor do we smite or abuse those who disagree; but regard as “Brethren” all sanctified believers in the precious blood. — Watch Tower, October 1, 1907, page 294.

    1908:

    We are not prophesying; we are merely giving our surmises, the Scriptural basis for which is already in the hands of our readers in the six volumes of SCRIPTURE STUDIES. We do not even aver that there is no mistake in our interpretation of prophecy and our calculations of chronology. — Watch Tower, January 1, 1908, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

    1910:

    I am not a prophet. The very most I try to do, dear friends, is to interpret prophecy. — What Pastor Russell Said, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

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    Default Scientific Classifications

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    At least Einstein knew a whale was a mammal and not a fish.

    Einstein knowledge >>>>>>>>>>> Jesus knowledge
    This, in effect, is using man's modern-day classifications and projecting some kind of error to God's Word based on the classifications that man has come up with. The modern-day scientific classifications did not exist when the Bible was written. Nor is God Himself subject the classifications that scientists have come up with.

  15. #240
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    This system won't be here in 2035. The remnant of the 144k are down to very little. Bible said before they die off, some of them will live to see the end. They are very old. They don't have 21 years. So it won't be here. So If Jehovah spares me, I will likely be on my way to perfection by those dates.

    And there are no lies being told. But like LJ, it's over your head. You ain't learned nothin.
    Thank you for sharing your thoughts concerning Armageddon.

    You will be very disappointed, just like the people who were disappointed in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, and 1994.

    Luke 21:8 "Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’
    Do not go after them."

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