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Thread: what does the bible really teach?

  1. #271
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    Knicks4lyfe is a member of a religion that fits its own description of a cult, yet he claims I have learned nothing.

    The fact that you claim I've learned nothing proves you're in a cult.

    It is impossible for anyone to have "learned nothing."

    We all grow and learn, day by day.

    But you wouldn't know anything about learning or growth, since you're in a cult that hates "independent thinking" and discourages higher education.

    "Avoid Independent Thinking. 'How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization."Watchtower Jan 15, 1983 page 22


    I already tried warning you about the Watchtower cult, so when you're in your 70s, and you realize you blew your entire life worshiping the Watchtower don't say me, OGKnickfan, and LJ4PTPLAY didn't warn you.

    Continue living in a box.

    The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society defined the word "cult" for all
    Jehovah's Witnesses and non-Witnesses to see in their February 15, 1994 edition of the Watchtower Magazine.



    Let's see if the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society fits its definition of a cult.

    "Cult members often isolate themselves from family, friends, and even society in general."
    (The Watchtower, February 15, 1994, pp. 6-7)

    The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society practices shunning(ex-communication of family, friends, and former witnesses), disfellowshipping(removal of the Congregation), and the Jehovah's Witness children are discouraged from engaging in afterschool activities with "worldly" non-Witness children.

    Irrefutable Evidence:

    "Listen! "it is expected" that you will have no
    extra-curricular activities outside of the Watchtower. Such activity is a "danger" and "worldly". Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry 1983, p. 133.

    "Children should get away from disfellowshipped parents as soon as they are old enough to leave." (Watchtower, 11/15/52, p. 703. )

    "If a child of someone is disfellowshipped from the Kingdom Hall, the parent is to refuse to listen to the child's reason."( Organization for Kingdom-Preaching and Disciple-Making1972, p. 173.)

    "Disfellowshipped children, legally of age will be kicked out of the home." (Watchtower, 11/15/52, p. 703. )


    You are reminded that involvement in after-school sports tie you down, requiring you to spend evenings and weekends playing on a school team. You are expected to be at the lectures at the Kingdom Hall. "Any recreation you take outside of school should not be with worldly youths." Watchtower, 9/1/64, p.535.

    "Cheerleaders lead people into "frenzied cheering ... hero worship ... glorifying humans." School and Jehovah's Witnesses, 1983, pp.23-24. Never become a homecoming queen! This would 'set up womanhood upon a pedestal." Watchtower, 6/15/64, p.381.

    "In fact, the month Of May of Mother's Day is understood to be named after Maia, a demon worshiped by the pagans. . . . "' (Awake 5/8/1956, p. 25)

    "We all need to face up to the fact that Christmas and its music are not from Jehovah, the God of truth. Then what is their source? ... Satan the Devil."(WT 12/15/1983, p. 7)


    "No Jehovah's Witness should want to go to college." Watchtower,9/1/75, p.543; Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock, 1977, p. 105..

    "Do not pursue higher education." Watchtower 3/15/1969, p. 171

    "If a JW joins another religion, an announcement is made to the congregation to stop associating with him." (WT 10/15/1986 p.31)

    "If someone used to be a Jehovah's Witness, "We must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme ~ active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest." Watchtower, 10/1/52, p.599.


    "The real danger of playing chess is it's military nature, the equivalent of the maneuvers enacted by little boys with toy soldiers." Awake !, 3/22/73, pp.12-14.

    Awake! 1986 october 22:
    "My father said that the Witnesses would brainwash me, to which I replied that my brain needed a good washing."
    You're not trying to help me, don't insult me by ever saying that again.

    It's funny u post these things without properly understanding them, so it shows you learned nothing. Sad, but true.

  2. #272
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    You're not trying to help me, don't insult me by ever saying that again.

    It's funny u post these things without properly understanding them, so it shows you learned nothing. Sad, but true.
    Okay, then how about you answer the tough questions?

    1. Why is it that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society doesn't give Jehovah's Witnesses access to ALL of their previous publications?

    2. Why is it that all of the Watchtower/Awake!/Kingdom Ministry quotes that I have presented are new to you, even though you are a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

    3. Like I said before, the fact that you believe I have "learned nothing" proves you are in a cult. Cults are known for telling their members that they have the exclusive truth and that outsiders don't know what they're talking about. Why? To retain cult members like yourself. Enjoy being victimized by the Watchtower until you're in your 70s and it is too late to take back the time you've wasted.

    4. I was trying to help, and I did warn you.

    You feel insulted, because you live in a box.

    But it doesn't change the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses fit their own description of a cult that the Watchtower February 15, 1994 edition uses.

    5. You yourself said the end is going to come "way before" 2034, so what are you going to do if and when the Watchtower misleads the Jehovah's Witnesses for the umpteenth time? Let me guess, you'll stay brainwashed until you're in your 70s?

    6. I feel sorry for you.

    Jehovah's Witnesses themselves find it impossible to follow all of the rules the dictators aka Watchtower Society tells its members to abide by.

    That is why you are on a non-Jehovah's Witness website that the Watchtower itself instructs Jehovah's Witnesses not to post on.

    "There is no need for any individual to prepare Internet pages about Jehovah's Witnesses, our activities, or our beliefs."-Our Kingdom Ministry November 1997

    Enjoy being trapped for the rest of your life.

  3. #273
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    Originally Posted by ResLight
    However, a quote from Russell was misrepresented, and I responded to that quote of him.
    I don't agree with you, but you have a right to your beliefs.

    I am using quotes from the Watchtower's publications. These quotes do not come from me, so I am not misrepresenting anyone. If you believe I am, then that means you mistakenly thought I was the one who created these quotations, which I did not.

    Here's the quotes:
    "The 'grand gallery' measures 1874 inches long at the top, 1878 inches long at a groove cut in its sides about midway between bottom and top and 1881 inches at the bottom…Now notice how aptly these three distinct dates (1874, 1878, 1881,) are marked by the pyramid."-
    Zion's Watchtower 5/1881

    "Our lord, the appointed king, is now present since Oct. 1874. According to the testimony of the prophets to those who have ears to hear." (studies in the scriptures vol.4, pg.621)

    "Was error found? No, they stood the test of all investigation and the jubilee argument and the "1335 days" of Daniel could not possibly be prolonged beyond the fall of 1874 or the spring of 1875 and these periods were both past."( Zion’s W.T p.3 Feb.1881)

    "But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 July 15 p.226

    "The year A.D. 1878, being the parallel of his assuming power and authority in the type, clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord...." Studies in the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come p.239

    Watch Tower Feb. 15, 1904 p.52-53 CAN THE ETHIOPIAN CHANGE HIS SKIN?
    How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time.
    a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September 1901.

  4. #274
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    I think we all must learn from each other, but a thread titled with a rhetorical question does not lend itself to this.

    People feign respect for another person's opinion, view, whatever, but they hardly ever respect what the other person has to say. They listen only long enough to find something they can springboard off of, on their way to further vanity.

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    Default Time of Trouble Began in 1914

    Originally Posted by abcd
    I don't agree with you, but you have a right to your beliefs.

    I am using quotes from the Watchtower's publications. These quotes do not come from me, so I am not misrepresenting anyone. If you believe I am, then that means you mistakenly thought I was the one who created these quotations, which I did not.

    Here's the quotes:
    "The 'grand gallery' measures 1874 inches long at the top, 1878 inches long at a groove cut in its sides about midway between bottom and top and 1881 inches at the bottom…Now notice how aptly these three distinct dates (1874, 1878, 1881,) are marked by the pyramid."-
    Zion's Watchtower 5/1881

    "Our lord, the appointed king, is now present since Oct. 1874. According to the testimony of the prophets to those who have ears to hear." (studies in the scriptures vol.4, pg.621)

    "Was error found? No, they stood the test of all investigation and the jubilee argument and the "1335 days" of Daniel could not possibly be prolonged beyond the fall of 1874 or the spring of 1875 and these periods were both past."( Zion’s W.T p.3 Feb.1881)

    "But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 July 15 p.226

    "The year A.D. 1878, being the parallel of his assuming power and authority in the type, clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord...." Studies in the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come p.239

    Watch Tower Feb. 15, 1904 p.52-53 CAN THE ETHIOPIAN CHANGE HIS SKIN?
    How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time.
    a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September 1901.
    I can only guess at the purpose of providing the above quotes; however, thanks for posting them, although without an understanding of the study behind the quotes, I am not sure that anyone will have any genuine benefit from the quotes. I assume that the purpose is to place Russell in some kind of negative light by isolating quotes that is thought would lend to serve that purpose.

    There is one quote above I need to address.

    "But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 July 15 p.226

    This expresses Russell's view in 1894, which view was based on that of Barbour. Barbour thought that the time of trouble was a period of from 1874 to 1914. Russell, in 1894, had rejected the idea that the time of trouble had begun in 1874, but still held to Barbour's view that the time of trouble was to end in 1914. Other Bible Students disagreed with this, and believed that the time of trouble was to begin, not end, in 1914. Russell at that time evidently had not examined their arguments closely.

    At any rate, ten years later in 1904, Russell reversed his thought on this matter, and accepted the opinion of his colleagues that the time of trouble was to begin, not end, in 1914. Thus, from 1904 to 1914, Russell was expecting that the time of trouble was to begin, not end, in 1914; from 1914 until his death he believed that the time of trouble had begun in 1914. I agree with Russell's conclusion that that Christ returned in 1874, and the time of trouble began in 1914.

    See:
    1904 and Russell's Changes
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Last edited by ResLight; Mar 03, 2011 at 13:17.

  6. #276
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    Looks like Knicks4lyfe finally has his Carmelo Anthony in ResLight to help him in these debates.

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    Originally Posted by knicksin60
    Looks like Knicks4lyfe finally has his Carmelo Anthony in ResLight to help him in these debates.
    Reslight appears to be speaking on his own faith. Doing an excellent job also.

  8. #278
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    Originally Posted by knicksin60
    Looks like Knicks4lyfe finally has his Carmelo Anthony in ResLight to help him in these debates.
    Reslight is a Bible Student.

    The Bible students of Charles Taze Russell separated into two groups.

    Most of the Bible Students joined Joseph Rutherford. Rutherford continued to use the Watchtower Magazine and eventually formed the Jehovah's Witnesses.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses are a high control cult. They can't celebrate holidays, receive blood transfusions, read anything outside of the Watchtower organization, or be friends with anyone UNLESS they are trying to convert the person. They also practice shunning/ex-communication towards any member who questions the Watchtower, joins another Christian denomination, or stops attending the meetings. Jehovah's Witnesses believe everyone alive today who is not a Jehovah's Witness will be put to death by God at
    Armageddon(which they have falsely predicted over 8 times and currently believe is around the corner).

    The other Bible Students separated from Rutherford and currently use Charles Taze Russell's teachings.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Reslight appears to be speaking on his own faith. Doing an excellent job also.
    Still can't answer the questions, huh?

    P.S.-Reslight is not a Jehovah's Witness and has already said he does not agree with their "authoritarian" and "dictatorhip" form of government. In fact, Charles Taze Russell's Bible Students left Judge Rutherford's Bible Students in the 1910s.

  9. #279
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    Default Watchtower Bible & Tract Sociey's 468 Week Membership with the United Nations

    Q: How long was the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society Members of the United Nations?

    A:468 Weeks

    The Watchtower Society claimed the United Nations was "the wild beast," but they joined the United Nations in 1992. Hypocrisy exposed.

    "As we think back on the highlights of the program, we also remember the identification of the "disgusting thing" with the scarlet-colored beast of Revelation chapter 17, the United Nations."-
    Kingdom Ministry 1970

    "Jehovah's Witnesses declare: As for us, we do not encourage false hopes of world peace because of the changing political scene." Watchtower June 1, 1991


    "The whole tendency of the League of Nations is to turn the people away from God and from Christ, and it is therefore a desolating thing, the product of Satan, and an abomination in the sight of God." So in 1919 "the disgusting thing" appeared. In time, the League gave way to


    the United Nations. Jehovah's Witnesses have long exposed these human peace organizations as disgusting in God's sight."-Watchtower May 1, 1999
    The wild beast represents the United Nations organization... Thus the modern-day Assyrian (nations associated with the UN) will deal Christendom a mighty blow and will crush her out of her existence.”—[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    "Recently the NGO Section has been receiving numerous inquires regarding the association of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York with the Department of Public Information (DPI). This organization applied for association with DPI in 1991 and was granted association in 1992.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    This news was shocking to individual Jehovah’s Witnesses who discovered the Society’s involvement with what they viewed as the “image of the wild beast.” They immediately began to question the Watchtower Society’s intentions concerning the United Nations. In response, the Watchtower Society quickly disassociated itself from the UN in October of 2001."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Last edited by abcd; Mar 03, 2011 at 13:07.

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    Default Bible Students and Sectarianism

    Originally Posted by abcd
    Reslight is a Bible Student.

    The Bible students of Charles Taze Russell separated into two groups.

    Most of the Bible Students joined Joseph Rutherford. Rutherford continued to use the Watchtower Magazine and eventually formed the Jehovah's Witnesses.
    More correctly, by 1930, the majority of the earlier Bible Students had rejected Rutherford's new organization, and had rejected Rutherford's new gospel, and were conducting affairs aside from Rutherford's new organization. While the majority of the earlier Bible Students (those who had been associated in the days of Russell) rejected the new organization, Rutherford had built up a new large following that was infatuated with the "organization" concept.

    Bible Students hold to the "ransom for all", which doctrine provides the basis for common fellowship as related to that doctrine. (The "ransom for all" teaching is almost the very opposite of what the Jehovah's Witnesses preach.) Russell was not the first in modern times to preach the "ransom for all", but he was probably the greatest single influential defender of that doctrine. Aside from this doctrine -- and the rejection of many doctrines that would conflict with this doctrine (trinity, inherent immortality, eternal suffering, etc.) -- one will find a wide variation amongst Bible Students. There are some who verge on sectarianism by trying to stay extremely close to what Russell said, while others may not use Russell's works at all, except for an occasional quote, etc. Most Bible Students, I believe, are somewhere between the two extremes.

    My own study on sectarianism may be found at:
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    However, I believe that belonging to Christ is of much greater importance than belonging any group or movement. While some churches exclude fellowship based on their accepted dogmas of men, I have had fine fellowship with Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians and many others. I believe the harvest of the end of the age work continues, and will end only after Satan has been abyssed, but that it is a harvest of hearts, not necessarily of physical separation from one group to another group. I do not believe, for instance, that the Bible Students movement will be sustained as a movement, as such, into the age to come anymore than I believe that any of the sectarian denominations will be allowed to continue to function into the Kingdom age. Any kind of sectarianism will not be allowed in the Kingdom. The present judgment work involved in the harvest, however, is in the hands of the angels, not in the hands of imperfect men here on the earth, although men are indeed used as instruments, workers in the harvest.

    Christian love,
    Ronald

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    Originally Posted by abcd
    Reslight is a Bible Student.

    The Bible students of Charles Taze Russell separated into two groups.

    Most of the Bible Students joined Joseph Rutherford. Rutherford continued to use the Watchtower Magazine and eventually formed the Jehovah's Witnesses.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses are a high control cult. They can't celebrate holidays, receive blood transfusions, read anything outside of the Watchtower organization, or be friends with anyone UNLESS they are trying to convert the person. They also practice shunning/ex-communication towards any member who questions the Watchtower, joins another Christian denomination, or stops attending the meetings. Jehovah's Witnesses believe everyone alive today who is not a Jehovah's Witness will be put to death by God at
    Armageddon(which they have falsely predicted over 8 times and currently believe is around the corner).

    The other Bible Students separated from Rutherford and currently use Charles Taze Russell's teachings.



    Still can't answer the questions, huh?

    P.S.-Reslight is not a Jehovah's Witness and has already said he does not agree with their "authoritarian" and "dictatorhip" form of government. In fact, Charles Taze Russell's Bible Students left Judge Rutherford's Bible Students in the 1910s.
    for what? You can't learn. You're a waste of time. Mine at least

  12. #282
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    for what? You can't learn. You're a waste of time. Mine at least
    lol You say I can't learn?

    You're funny.

    -Aren't you in that cult group that tells people to "avoid independent thinking?"

    "Does "the faithful and discreet slave" [[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]] endorse independent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate? - No, it does not. ... "the faithful and discreet slave" does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under it's oversight." Sept 2007 Kingdom Ministry

    "Avoid Independent Thinking. 'How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization." Watchtower Jan 15, 1983 page 22

    -Aren't you in that cult group that tells people not to pursue higher education because "Armageddon is around the corner?"

    "Is the Watchtower printing sincere articles or is it rather trying to control the minds of its members by keeping them ignorant? What is their real motive?"

    "Do not pursue higher education. There is very little time left! Make pioneer service, the full-time ministry with the possibility of Bethel or missionary service, your goal." WT 3/15/1969, p. 171

    "Professional people, doctors and lawyers are often "inconsiderate of others" due to their undesirable higher education. Awake!, 918168, p.1 0. It is foolish to want to be a doctor or a lawyer." Watchtower, 8/1/75, p.451

    Enjoy rotting in the Watchtower cult.
    Last edited by abcd; Mar 03, 2011 at 14:57.

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    Default What does the Bible in Hebrews 1 tell us about "God"?

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    2. As for your other point, I could just as well take Hebrews 1:8 and say that Jesus is called God, meaning he is Jehovah. And follow it by saying End of story, since, in your thinking 1:9 contradicts 1:8.

    3. Moreover, 1:9 is saying God, thy God, stating that God is Jesus' God, but the same is implied in 1:8, when God is quoted as saying, in reference to Jesus, "Your throne, O God." Don't you see that one could say that Jesus is Jehovah's God, using the logic WTBS employs?

    The fact is that the scripture speaks for itself: Jesus is, in Christianity, a physical manifestation of the supreme.
    What does the Bible in Hebrews 1 tell us about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? (Exodus 3:14,15; Acts 3:13-26) In Hebrews 1:1-3, is "God" presented as one person, or more than one person? Obviously, He is presented as one person, and Jesus is depicted as the "Son" of that one person. The unipersonal God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob spoke through another who is not Himself, that is, His son. In Hebrews 1:3, God and His works are seen and performed through His Son.
    See my study:
    The Unipersonal God Speaks Through His Son
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    In Hebrews 1:4, the Son, who, while in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7) was a little lower than the angels (Hebrews 2:9), is shown to now be exalted above the angels. Who exalted Jesus above the angels? Paul tell us it was the unipersonal God. -- Philippians 2:9.

    In Hebrews 1:5-13, we find that the unipersonal God is being quoted as speaking to His Son, and thereby describing various roles that the unipersonal God has given to His Son, while also showing the superiority of the exaltation that He has given to His Son above the angels.

    In Hebrews 1:8, as it appears in most translations, Jesus is referred to by the Greek word often transliterated as "THEOS." It should be obvious, however, that the word THEOS is not being applied to the Son of the Most High (Luke 1:32) in the same sense as the same word is used to apply the Most High Himself. So if the scripture is meant to apply this word to the Son of the Most High, it would have to be in the general sense of one possessing power and authority as given to him by the Most High. Indeed, this is what is shown by Hebrews 1:9, for in that verse, the unipersonal God of Hebrews 1:1 is the One who is depicted as giving to Jesus this exaltation above his "fellows". Thus, Jesus is not being depicted as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in Hebrews 1:8, but, if anything, as one made mighty by the only the Most High. This goes back to the Hebraic usage of forms of the the Hebrew word EL, which forms can, and most often do, refer to the Most High and source of all might, Yahweh, but may also be used of anyone or anything to whom the only Most High Might has given any kind of special might, authority, or power. The quote of Hebrews 1:18 is from Psalm 45:6, where a form of EL (ELOHIM) is used.
    See my study on The Hebraic Usage of the Titles for God
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Also my study:
    Why Is Jesus Called "ELOHIM" and "THEOS"?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    In Hebrews 1:10-14, we find that the unipersonal God of Hebrews 1:1 is speaking to His son, as the one whose hands had made the present heavens and earth, which heavens and earth have become corrupted (2 Peter 1:4) through sin (Romans 5:12) and are to pass away. (Matthew 5:18; 24:35; 2 Peter 3:10) As Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt (Exodus 3:10), it was actually the unipersonal God who, by the hand of Moses and Aaron (Psalm 72:20), led the children of Egypt out of Egypt (Exodus 3:8), so it is evident that the unipersonal God of Hebrews 1:1 made the present heavens and earth, which has become the present evil world (Galatians 1:4), by means of the hand of His Son.
    See my study:
    Does Yahweh Speak to Yahweh?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    In Hebrews 1:13,14, the unipersonal God of Hebrews 1:1 speaks to His Son again. The quote is from Psalm 110:1, which thus identifies Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as the unipersonal God who speaks to His son, as also shown by Hebrews 1:1.

    All the way through the first chapter of Hebrews, as well throughout the entire Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is depicted as one person, and not as more than one person.

    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. -- Ephesians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3.

  14. #284
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    Originally Posted by ResLight
    What does the Bible in Hebrews 1 tell us about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? (Exodus 3:14,15; Acts 3:13-26) In Hebrews 1:1-3, is "God" presented as one person, or more than one person? Obviously, He is presented as one person, and Jesus is depicted as the "Son" of that one person. The unipersonal God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob spoke through another who is not Himself, that is, His son. In Hebrews 1:3, God and His works are seen and performed through His Son.
    See my study:
    The Unipersonal God Speaks Through His Son
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    In Hebrews 1:4, the Son, who, while in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7) was a little lower than the angels (Hebrews 2:9), is shown to now be exalted above the angels. Who exalted Jesus above the angels? Paul tell us it was the unipersonal God. -- Philippians 2:9.

    In Hebrews 1:5-13, we find that the unipersonal God is being quoted as speaking to His Son, and thereby describing various roles that the unipersonal God has given to His Son, while also showing the superiority of the exaltation that He has given to His Son above the angels.

    In Hebrews 1:8, as it appears in most translations, Jesus is referred to by the Greek word often transliterated as "THEOS." It should be obvious, however, that the word THEOS is not being applied to the Son of the Most High (Luke 1:32) in the same sense as the same word is used to apply the Most High Himself. So if the scripture is meant to apply this word to the Son of the Most High, it would have to be in the general sense of one possessing power and authority as given to him by the Most High. Indeed, this is what is shown by Hebrews 1:9, for in that verse, the unipersonal God of Hebrews 1:1 is the One who is depicted as giving to Jesus this exaltation above his "fellows". Thus, Jesus is not being depicted as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in Hebrews 1:8, but, if anything, as one made mighty by the only the Most High. This goes back to the Hebraic usage of forms of the the Hebrew word EL, which forms can, and most often do, refer to the Most High and source of all might, Yahweh, but may also be used of anyone or anything to whom the only Most High Might has given any kind of special might, authority, or power. The quote of Hebrews 1:18 is from Psalm 45:6, where a form of EL (ELOHIM) is used.
    See my study on The Hebraic Usage of the Titles for God
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Also my study:
    Why Is Jesus Called "ELOHIM" and "THEOS"?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    In Hebrews 1:10-14, we find that the unipersonal God of Hebrews 1:1 is speaking to His son, as the one whose hands had made the present heavens and earth, which heavens and earth have become corrupted (2 Peter 1:4) through sin (Romans 5:12) and are to pass away. (Matthew 5:18; 24:35; 2 Peter 3:10) As Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt (Exodus 3:10), it was actually the unipersonal God who, by the hand of Moses and Aaron (Psalm 72:20), led the children of Egypt out of Egypt (Exodus 3:8), so it is evident that the unipersonal God of Hebrews 1:1 made the present heavens and earth, which has become the present evil world (Galatians 1:4), by means of the hand of His Son.
    See my study:
    Does Yahweh Speak to Yahweh?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    In Hebrews 1:13,14, the unipersonal God of Hebrews 1:1 speaks to His Son again. The quote is from Psalm 110:1, which thus identifies Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as the unipersonal God who speaks to His son, as also shown by Hebrews 1:1.

    All the way through the first chapter of Hebrews, as well throughout the entire Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is depicted as one person, and not as more than one person.

    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. -- Ephesians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3.
    I must, respectfully so, inform you that I neither believe in Jesus' divinity, nor deny it. I do not believe in Jehovah or Jesus as supreme, whether they hold divinity or not.

    As stated in the Tao Te Ching, the holy book of Taoism, I believe: "The name that can be named is not the eternal name." In other words, the supreme is beyond definition, which would definitely include names. This is, of course, not said to challenge or insult your beliefs or those of LJ or K4L.

    All things considered, I do love Jesus and Christians; but to me, Jesus' loving message lovingly ended the old covenant and its violence. The apostles and Jesus speak, over and over again, about the unspirituality of legalism, embodied by the adherence to rules by the Pharisees, regardless of questions of compassion, love and justice.

    To quibble over Jesus' divinity or what one calls God, real children of God versus the damned, etc., seems a waste of time that could be spent basking in God's unconditional love. And so I exhort all to find God [as they see it, him, she] NOW. For you and K4L, that is Jehovah, for LJ it is science.

    As for my mention of the trinity, my point was to gain an understanding of K4L's view, and practice, of the watchtower's legalistic approach to spirituality, with which I have some experience. The specific beliefs, as such, are of secondary importance [to me], when it comes to the issue of mystical communion, which I believe to be an integral part of Christianity.

    I exhort you to seek mystical communion in your spiritual practice, if you have not already.


    God Bless

  15. #285
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    lol You say I can't learn?

    You're funny.

    -Aren't you in that cult group that tells people to "avoid independent thinking?"

    "Does "the faithful and discreet slave" [[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]] endorse independent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate? - No, it does not. ... "the faithful and discreet slave" does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under it's oversight." Sept 2007 Kingdom Ministry

    "Avoid Independent Thinking. 'How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization." Watchtower Jan 15, 1983 page 22

    -Aren't you in that cult group that tells people not to pursue higher education because "Armageddon is around the corner?"

    "Is the Watchtower printing sincere articles or is it rather trying to control the minds of its members by keeping them ignorant? What is their real motive?"

    "Do not pursue higher education. There is very little time left! Make pioneer service, the full-time ministry with the possibility of Bethel or missionary service, your goal." WT 3/15/1969, p. 171

    "Professional people, doctors and lawyers are often "inconsiderate of others" due to their undesirable higher education. Awake!, 918168, p.1 0. It is foolish to want to be a doctor or a lawyer." Watchtower, 8/1/75, p.451

    Enjoy rotting in the Watchtower cult.
    like I said, you can't learn. You do not understand the perspective of the bible at all in it's proper context. JW's do. Therefore I read what you post and instantly can put it all into proper biblical Context, while you view them from a worldly standpoint. Which is why you cannot learn. You do not have God's Holy spirit helping you to understand properly. God is not of the world. That is why the world is in shambles. Until you get that, you are lost.

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