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Thread: what does the bible really teach?

  1. #61
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    How is it beneficial when the knowledge is limited?

    Knowledge should be unlimited, and adoptable to change and the environment.

    The bible isn't that. Its outdated, closed minded, limited and its against humanity.

    If the bible was editable and open to new ideas, I would embrace it fully.

    Keep in mind I was raised roman catholic due to my environment and my family tradition. I have nothing against religious people, I just wish they actually used the theology into good and productive use. You don't have to agree my brother. I just say it how it is.
    This.

    I'm not a religious person at all, but what I get out of it are certain teachings: be nice to other people, try and do good work for those around you, to allow yourself to listen so that others will listen to you.

    Too often religion has become a way to separate us all. One group thinks they are right, the other thinks they themselves are right; and they do not relent. It frequently causes war, death and travesty when it should be creating unity. My problem is not with religion, it is with people who use it as a separator not a unifier.

    I've gotten certain things out of my religion, but I am not naive enough to believe that if someone does not believe what I do they are doomed to an eternity of pain and suffering. I simply prefer to use religion, and I wish others would do the same, to teach people how to be good to each other and unify the world rather than divide it. It does not matter how you get to the teachings, whether you believe in Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, or in Flying Spaghetti Monster. If you get a positive message and it helps you be a better PERSON (e.g. you do not berate or threaten others who do not believe in what you believe with eternal damnation) THAT is most important.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Truth, not rules, brings the joy and good conduct inherent in Jesus' life and teachings, as well as that of the greatest spiritual teachers. This is why Jesus went against the sabbath rules, went against biblical rules that commanded He not touch women (who could possibly be on their menstrual cycle), and went against rules against eating food prepared by gentiles.

    The gospel and epistles asks us to follow His example, meaning we are to follow one rule, love: we are to love Christ, and each other, in a a manner that is unconditional [to rules, even biblical ones].

    Rules exist because many of us do not know real love, real kindness, holy contemplation and can only avoid harming one another and ourselves (superficially, not truly, at that) as a result of coercion by those in authority. When Jesus dispels the darkness with, as the light, it is not with words and legalism, it is with grace and perception, unbounded by the limitations of the world, e.g., written language, a necessary evil.

    The bible, particularly the gospel and epistles, is one of many holy books that guide one to bliss, but it is not itself bliss. It is a tool for communication of something that exists beyond its words. If words is all you have, divine grace is missing.

    Naturally, someone who knows real love and kindness, does not kill, steal, lie, hate, disfellowship, turn away a sick person on the sabbath, or receive punishment from the divine, regardless of his superficial beliefs (what he calls God, how he believes in God's nature, etc.).

    As for Jesus being exclusive to your organization, something that, if you believe it, you should proclaim it with no shame, instead of hiding it from the people you witness to, you speak just like the pharisees. They also believed they had an exclusive covenant, and Jesus told them they wrong, that their hearts were hardened, and they were listening to their figurative "father," not him.

    If you cannot see that the pain caused by your organization, as superbly compiled by ABCD, is incongruous with Jesus' message of "love, in spite of rules," then you do not truly understand Jesus. This does not necessarily mean you need to leave your group, which is what you tell others about their religions. It means you need to practice being a witness in a different spirit and, if need be, remain silent on certain pieces of doctrine.

    God Bless
    First off, Jesus followed the Law to the letter. He exposed the pharasees for making the sabbath a burden, which it was not meant to be.

    And I have said time and again, being a JW is the toughest thing in this world, cuz this world hates truth.

    All abcd exposed was the fact that some people cant man up and blame themselves for why they are baptized too early, or why they are disfellowshipped. Disfellowshipping is a biblically legal course of action. God OK'D it, not the governing body. A person who chooses to get baptized well knows the consequences of they are disfellowshipped. So to.hear a person cry foul abt not being able to talk to their friends and family because they chose to leave God, is crazy to me.

    On one hand we have God, the other a loved one who turned their back on God. Who would u choose to stand by?

    I rest my case.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    How is it beneficial when the knowledge is limited?

    Knowledge should be unlimited, and adoptable to change and the environment.

    The bible isn't that. Its outdated, closed minded, limited and its against humanity.

    If the bible was editable and open to new ideas, I would embrace it fully.

    Keep in mind I was raised roman catholic due to my environment and my family tradition. I have nothing against religious people, I just wish they actually used the theology into good and productive use. You don't have to agree my brother. I just say it how it is.
    Not sure on what level u mean limited knowledge, so I will ask u to expand on that thought.

    The bible is def not outdated. It's principles, if followed, would allow humanity to live prosperous. It's only closed minded to those who wish to ignore God. And it promises an ever lasting relationship with the supreme being. No limitations with that at all.

    God does not wish to limit humanity from a growth standpoint. But he will not allow ideas rooted in unrighteousness.

    Diff seein u post here. Respect.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    First off, Jesus followed the Law to the letter. He exposed the pharasees for making the sabbath a burden, which it was not meant to be.

    And I have said time and again, being a JW is the toughest thing in this world, cuz this world hates truth.

    All abcd exposed was the fact that some people cant man up and blame themselves for why they are baptized too early, or why they are disfellowshipped. Disfellowshipping is a biblically legal course of action. God OK'D it, not the governing body. A person who chooses to get baptized well knows the consequences of they are disfellowshipped. So to.hear a person cry foul abt not being able to talk to their friends and family because they chose to leave God, is crazy to me.

    On one hand we have God, the other a loved one who turned their back on God. Who would u choose to stand by?

    I rest my case.
    It seems you rested your case years ago: whatever the WT society tells you, you unquestionably believe. They (men just like you) tell you what Jesus means in the new testament, and you believe it, rather than going to the source itself [without a watchtower publication handy].

    There is a spirit to Jesus' life, and it did not revolve around rules, control of individuals, restriction of love to an "organization," etc. Rather, it revolved around love and compassion for all.

    I hope you find this spirit, as it is obvious, by your cold, matter-of-fact commentary on people losing their families [as a result of disfellowship], losing their lives, as a result of refusing blood transfusions, etc., that you have not, for whatever reason, understood the good shepherd.

    I'll leave you with that.

    Peace.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    It seems you rested your case years ago: whatever the WT society tells you, you unquestionably believe. They (men just like you) tell you what Jesus means in the new testament, and you believe it, rather than going to the source itself [without a watchtower publication handy].

    There is a spirit to Jesus' life, and it did not revolve around rules, control of individuals, restriction of love to an "organization," etc. Rather, it revolved around love and compassion for all.

    I hope you find this spirit, as it is obvious, by your cold, matter-of-fact commentary on people losing their families [as a result of disfellowship], losing their lives, as a result of refusing blood transfusions, etc., that you have not, for whatever reason, understood the good shepherd.

    I'll leave you with that.

    Peace.
    You say I unquestionably believe as if I just believed what I do blindly. As if, it was not put to the test. As if no other options were weighed. As if the governing body uses hypnosis, instead of sound biblical understanding and reason. Since you think you can do better, I will ask you provide me with answers from your viewpoint of the bible, to these questions. I will also understand if you are not up to the task. But you're so smart, you may surprise me.

    Is there a hell?
    Why does God allow suffering?
    Does Satan exist?
    Where are the dead?
    Do humans have an immortal soul?
    Is Jesus God?
    What is the ressurection?
    What is the 144,000?
    Who is Babylon the great?
    What is the mark of the beast?
    Who is the great crowd spoken of surviving the great tribulation in rev 7.9?
    Who are the 7 Kings spoken of in rev 17.9-17?
    Who is the angel that is being described in Rev 18?

    How bout you show this superior intelligence you have, and gimme a more sensible answer to these questions than Jehovah's people have? Oh, don't worry, I'll gladly wait lol...
    Last edited by Knicks4lyfe; Jan 16, 2011 at 17:13.

  6. #66
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    You say I unquestionably believe as if I just believed what I do blindly. As if, it was not put to the test. As if no other options were weighed. As if the governing body uses hypnosis, instead of sound biblical understanding and reason. Since you think you can do better, I will ask you provide me with answers from your viewpoint of the bible, to these questions. I will also understand if you are not up to the task. But you're so smart, you may surprise me.

    Is there a hell?
    Why does God allow suffering?
    Does Satan exist?
    Where are the dead?
    Do humans have an immortal soul?
    Is Jesus God?
    What is the ressurection?
    What is the 144,000?
    Who is Babylon the great?
    What is the mark of the beast?
    Who is the great crowd spoken of surviving the great tribulation in rev 7.9?
    Who are the 7 Kings spoken of in rev 17.9-17?
    Who is the angel that is being described in Rev 18?

    How bout you show this superior intelligence you have, and gimme a more sensible answer to these questions than Jehovah's people have? Oh, don't worry, I'll gladly wait lol...
    You want answers, and your mind and heart are jailed! First, reclaim your mind and heart, along with your innocence, and then seek answers to the one question that really matters, the question of how one is to find, and spread, real, and unconditional love, in such a world as this.

    Respectfully, I must say it's very telling that I speak to you of people losing their families, of your organization's cheaply gained and easily lost, conditional love, and all you can seem to talk about is rules and how to further imprison yourself.

    The pharisees, too, were obsessed with rules and hypocrisy, while Jesus was obsessed with love. I'm sure the pharisees loved explanations on all the topics you listed, too. Jesus knew, and cared about, only fairness and love. I exhort you to find that love yourself, instead of practicing that which makes you post sarcastic, angry words.


    Peace.

    John 8:3-11,


    The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

    But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
    9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
    11No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

  7. #67
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    All abcd exposed was the fact that some people cant man up and blame themselves for why they are baptized too early, or why they are disfellowshipped.

    I rest my case.
    So children who are 8, 10, and 13 years old have to "man up" and "blame themselves" for why they are baptized too early.
    Link: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Just like a teenage ex-Witness has to "man up" and "blame herself" for being raped, just like the Jehovah's Witness elders instructed her to do before she was disfellowshipped. And as a parting gift, they instructed her not to pray, because "Jehovah wouldn't answer her prayers."
    link: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    This is what Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to believe by men in suits aka the governing body in Brooklyn, New York.

    You've shown the true colors of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Their love is conditional, because their idea of God believes everyone is with Satan except a select 7.2 million followers.

    So when anyone questions the Watchtower, or if God forbid, they join another denomination or no longer believe in the Watchtower, they are disfellowshipped and seen as "spiritually dead."

    According to Jehovah's Witnesses, hating people is great.
    "The obligation to hate lawlessness also applies to all activity by apostates. Our attitude toward apostates should be that of David, who declared: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies. --"
    The Watchtower, July 15, 1992, page 12.

    "Like gangrene, apostate reasoning is nothing but quick-spreading spiritual death."
    The Watchtower, March 15, 1986, page 15.

    "Therefore, resolve in your heart that you will never even touch the poison that apostates want you to sip." --The Watchtower, March 15, 1986, page 20.

    Proof that the Watchtower Society believes anyone who uses the Bible alone (Including Jehovah's Witnesses who use the New World Translation alone) is with satan:
    "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude. ... They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home." --The Watchtower, August 15, 1981, page 28-29

    It is a fact that most people in your situation ignore anything anyone tells them, because they are trained by the governing body aka men to believe everyone is part of Satan's "system of things."

    But this is the hate being taught from your very own magazine.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    You want answers, and your mind and heart are jailed! First, reclaim your mind and heart, along with your innocence, and then seek answers to the one question that really matters, the question of how one is to find, and spread, real, and unconditional love, in such a world as this.

    Respectfully, I must say it's very telling that I speak to you of people losing their families, of your organization's cheaply gained and easily lost, conditional love, and all you can seem to talk about is rules and how to further imprison yourself.

    The pharisees, too, were obsessed with rules and hypocrisy, while Jesus was obsessed with love. I'm sure the pharisees loved explanations on all the topics you listed, too. Jesus knew, and cared about, only fairness and love. I exhort you to find that love yourself, instead of practicing that which makes you post sarcastic, angry words.


    Peace.

    John 8:3-11,


    The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

    But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
    9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
    11No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
    Translation: you've got nothing. See ya!

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    Originally Posted by abcd
    So children who are 8, 10, and 13 years old have to "man up" and "blame themselves" for why they are baptized too early.
    Link: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Just like a teenage ex-Witness has to "man up" and "blame herself" for being raped, just like the Jehovah's Witness elders instructed her to do before she was disfellowshipped. And as a parting gift, they instructed her not to pray, because "Jehovah wouldn't answer her prayers."
    link: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    This is what Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to believe by men in suits aka the governing body in Brooklyn, New York.

    You've shown the true colors of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Their love is conditional, because their idea of God believes everyone is with Satan except a select 7.2 million followers.

    So when anyone questions the Watchtower, or if God forbid, they join another denomination or no longer believe in the Watchtower, they are disfellowshipped and seen as "spiritually dead."

    According to Jehovah's Witnesses, hating people is great.
    "The obligation to hate lawlessness also applies to all activity by apostates. Our attitude toward apostates should be that of David, who declared: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies. --"
    The Watchtower, July 15, 1992, page 12.

    "Like gangrene, apostate reasoning is nothing but quick-spreading spiritual death."
    The Watchtower, March 15, 1986, page 15.

    "Therefore, resolve in your heart that you will never even touch the poison that apostates want you to sip." --The Watchtower, March 15, 1986, page 20.

    Proof that the Watchtower Society believes anyone who uses the Bible alone (Including Jehovah's Witnesses who use the New World Translation alone) is with satan:
    "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude. ... They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home." --The Watchtower, August 15, 1981, page 28-29

    It is a fact that most people in your situation ignore anything anyone tells them, because they are trained by the governing body aka men to believe everyone is part of Satan's "system of things."

    But this is the hate being taught from your very own magazine.
    No one said anything abt rape before now. You are simply showing anger now. Rape Is out of someones control.

    Yes, man up. Baptism is not forced on anyone. 8, 10 13. 10 and 13 yr olds are willingly choosing to have consenting sex these days. Why give them an excuse when they choose to serve God that young?

    There are special cases for those that young, and the brothers take into account their age. A person that young would have to show an extraordinary amount of spiritual zeal to even be considered for baptism. So if they are baptised, it is because of their outshowing of such. Our young are very smart kids. They well know what they are getting into.

    U are a man of complaints and excuses. MAN UP ABCD!
    Last edited by Knicks4lyfe; Jan 17, 2011 at 13:49.

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    Default Chapter 5

    The Ransom—God’s Greatest Gift

    What is the ransom?
    How was it provided?
    What can it mean for you?
    How can you show that you appreciate it?

    WHAT is the greatest gift you have ever received? A gift does not have to be expensive to be important. After all, the true value of a gift is not necessarily measured in terms of money. Rather, when a gift brings you happiness or fills a real need in your life, it has great value to you personally.

    2 Of the many gifts you could ever hope to receive, there is one that stands out above all others. It is a gift from God to mankind. Jehovah has given us many things, but his greatest gift to us is the ransom sacrifice of his Son, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 20:28) As we will see in this chapter, the ransom is the most valuable gift you could possibly receive, for it can bring you untold happiness and can fill your most important needs. The ransom is really the greatest expression of Jehovah’s love for you.

    WHAT IS THE RANSOM?
    3 Put simply, the ransom is Jehovah’s means to deliver, or save, humankind from sin and death. (Ephesians 1:7) To grasp the meaning of this Bible teaching, we need to think back to what happened in the garden of Eden. Only if we understand what Adam lost when he sinned can we appreciate why the ransom is such a valuable gift to us.

    4 When he created Adam, Jehovah gave him something truly precious—perfect human life. Consider what that meant for Adam. Made with a perfect body and mind, he would never get sick, grow old, or die. As a perfect human, he had a special relationship with Jehovah. The Bible says that Adam was a “son of God.” (Luke 3:38) So Adam enjoyed a close relationship with Jehovah God, like that of a son with a loving father. Jehovah communicated with his earthly son, giving Adam satisfying assignments of work and letting him know what was expected of him.—Genesis 1:28-30; 2:16,*17.

    5 Adam was made “in God’s image.” (Genesis 1:27) That did not mean that Adam resembled God in appearance. As we learned in Chapter*1 of this book, Jehovah is an invisible spirit. (John 4:24) So Jehovah does not have a body of flesh and blood. Being made in God’s image meant that Adam was created with qualities like those of God, including love, wisdom, justice, and power. Adam was like his Father in another important way in that he possessed free will. Hence, Adam was not like a machine that can perform only what it is designed or programmed to do. Instead, he could make personal decisions, choosing between right and wrong. If he had chosen to obey God, he would have lived forever in Paradise on earth.

    6 Clearly, then, when Adam disobeyed God and was condemned to death, he paid a very high price. His sin cost him his perfect human life with all its blessings. (Genesis 3:17-19) Sadly, Adam lost this precious life not only for himself but also for his future offspring. God’s Word says: “Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.” (Romans 5:12) Yes, all of us have inherited sin from Adam. Hence, the Bible says that he “sold” himself and his offspring into slavery to sin and death. (Romans 7:14) There was no hope for Adam or Eve because they willfully chose to disobey God. But what about their offspring, including us?

    7 Jehovah came to mankind’s rescue by means of the ransom. What is a ransom? The idea of a ransom basically involves two things. First, a ransom is the price paid to bring about a release or to buy something back. It might be compared to the price paid for the release of a prisoner of war. Second, a ransom is the price that covers, or pays, the cost of something. It is similar to the price paid to cover the damages caused by an injury. For example, if a person causes an accident, he would have to pay an amount that fully corresponds to, or equals, the value of what was damaged.

    8 How would it be possible to cover the enormous loss that Adam inflicted on all of us and to release us from slavery to sin and death? Let us consider the ransom that Jehovah provided and what this can mean for you.

    HOW JEHOVAH PROVIDED THE RANSOM
    9 Since a perfect human life was lost, no imperfect human life could ever buy it back. (Psalm 49:7,*8) What was needed was a ransom equal in value to what was lost. This is in harmony with the principle of perfect justice found in God’s Word, which says: “Soul will be for soul.” (Deuteronomy 19:21) So, what would cover the value of the perfect human soul, or life, that Adam lost? Another perfect human life was the “corresponding ransom” that was required.—1*Timothy 2:6.
    Jehovah gave his only-begotten Son as a ransom for us

    10 How did Jehovah provide the ransom? He sent one of his perfect spirit sons to the earth. But Jehovah did not send just any spirit creature. He sent the one most precious to him, his only-begotten Son. (1*John 4:9,*10) Willingly, this Son left his heavenly home. (Philippians 2:7) As we learned in the preceding chapter of this book, Jehovah performed a miracle when he transferred the life of this Son to the womb of Mary. By means of God’s holy spirit, Jesus was born as a perfect human and was not under the penalty of sin.—Luke 1:35.

    11 How could one man serve as a ransom for many, in fact, millions of humans? Well, how did humans numbering into the millions come to be sinners in the first place? Recall that by sinning, Adam lost the precious possession of perfect human life. Hence, he could not pass it on to his offspring. Instead, he could pass on only sin and death. Jesus, whom the Bible calls “the last Adam,” had a perfect human life, and he never sinned. (1*Corinthians 15:45) In a sense, Jesus stepped into Adam’s place in order to save us. By sacrificing, or giving up, his perfect life in flawless obedience to God, Jesus paid the price for Adam’s sin. Jesus thus brought hope to Adam’s offspring.—Romans 5:19; 1*Corinthians 15:21,*22.

    12 The Bible describes in detail the suffering that Jesus endured before his death. He experienced harsh whipping, cruel impalement, and an agonizing death on a torture stake. (John 19:1, 16-18,*30; Appendix) Why was it necessary for Jesus to suffer so much? In a later chapter of this book, we will see that Satan has questioned whether Jehovah has any human servants who would remain faithful under trial. By enduring faithfully in spite of great suffering, Jesus gave the best possible answer to Satan’s challenge. Jesus proved that a perfect man possessing free will could keep perfect integrity to God no matter what the Devil did. Jehovah must have rejoiced greatly over the faithfulness of his dear Son!—Proverbs 27:11.

    13 How was the ransom paid? On the 14th day of the Jewish month Nisan in 33*C.E., God allowed his perfect and sinless Son to be executed. Jesus thus sacrificed his perfect human life “once for all time.” (Hebrews 10:10) On the third day after Jesus died, Jehovah raised him back to spirit life. In heaven, Jesus presented to God the value of his perfect human life sacrificed as a ransom in exchange for Adam’s offspring. (Hebrews 9:24) Jehovah accepted the value of Jesus’ sacrifice as the ransom needed to deliver mankind from slavery to sin and death.—Romans 3:23,*24.

    WHAT THE RANSOM CAN MEAN FOR YOU
    14 Despite our sinful condition, we can enjoy priceless blessings because of the ransom. Let us consider some of the present and future benefits of this greatest gift from God.

    15The forgiveness of sins. Because of inherited imperfection, we have a real struggle to do what is right. All of us sin either in word or in deed. But by means of Jesus’ ransom sacrifice, we can receive “the forgiveness of our sins.” (Colossians 1:13,*14) To gain that forgiveness, however, we must be truly repentant. We must also humbly appeal to Jehovah, asking his forgiveness on the basis of our faith in the ransom sacrifice of his Son.—1*John 1:8,*9.

    16A clean conscience before God. A guilty conscience can easily lead to hopelessness and make us feel worthless. Through the forgiveness made possible by the ransom, though, Jehovah kindly enables us to worship him with a clean conscience despite our imperfection. (Hebrews 9:13,*14) This makes it possible for us to have freeness of speech with Jehovah. Therefore, we can freely approach him in prayer. (Hebrews 4:14-16) Maintaining a clean conscience gives peace of mind, promotes self-respect, and contributes to happiness.

    17The hope of everlasting life on a paradise earth. “The wages sin pays is death,” says Romans 6:23. The same verse adds: “But the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.” In Chapter*3 of this book, we discussed the blessings of the coming earthly Paradise. (Revelation 21:3,*4) All those future blessings, including life everlasting in perfect health, are made possible because Jesus died for us. To receive those blessings, we need to show that we appreciate the gift of the ransom.

    HOW CAN YOU SHOW YOUR APPRECIATION?
    18 Why should we be deeply grateful to Jehovah for the ransom? Well, a gift is especially precious when it involves a sacrifice of time, effort, or expense on the part of the giver. Our heart is touched when we see that a gift is an expression of the giver’s genuine love for us. The ransom is the most precious of all gifts, for God made the greatest sacrifice ever in providing it. “God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son,” says John 3:16. The ransom is the most outstanding evidence of Jehovah’s love for us. It is also proof of Jesus’ love, for he willingly gave his life in our behalf. (John 15:13) The gift of the ransom should therefore convince us that Jehovah and his Son love us as individuals.—Galatians 2:20.

    19 How, then, can you demonstrate that you appreciate God’s gift of the ransom? To begin with, get to know more about the Great Giver, Jehovah. (John 17:3) A study of the Bible with the aid of this publication will help you to do that. As you grow in knowledge of Jehovah, your love for him will deepen. In turn, that love will make you want to please him.—1*John 5:3.
    Getting to know more about Jehovah is one way to show that you appreciate his gift of the ransom

    20Exercise faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. Jesus himself said: “He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life.” (John 3:36) How can we exercise faith in Jesus? Such faith is not shown by words alone. “Faith without works is dead,” says James 2:26. Yes, true faith is proved by “works,” that is, by our actions. One way to show that we have faith in Jesus is by doing our best to imitate him not just in what we say but also in what we do.—John 13:15.

    21Attend the annual observance of the Lord’s Evening Meal. On the evening of Nisan 14, 33*C.E., Jesus introduced a special observance that the Bible calls “the Lord’s evening meal.” (1*Corinthians 11:20; Matthew 26:26-28) This observance is also called the Memorial of Christ’s death. Jesus instituted it to help his apostles and all true Christians after them to bear in mind that by means of his death as a perfect human, he gave his soul, or life, as a ransom. Regarding this observance, Jesus commanded: “Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” (Luke 22:19) Observing the Memorial reminds us of the great love shown by both Jehovah and Jesus in connection with the ransom. We can show our appreciation for the ransom by being present at the yearly observance of the Memorial of Jesus’ death.*

    22 Jehovah’s provision of the ransom is indeed an invaluable gift. (2*Corinthians 9:14,*15) This priceless gift can benefit even those who have died. Chapters*6 and 7 will explain how.
    ***For more information about the meaning of the Lord’s Evening Meal, see the Appendix.

    WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES
    The ransom is Jehovah’s means to deliver humankind from sin and death.—Ephesians 1:7.
    Jehovah provided the ransom by sending his only-begotten Son to earth to die for us.—1*John 4:9, 10.
    By means of the ransom, we gain the forgiveness of sins, a clean conscience, and the hope of everlasting life.—1*John 1:8, 9.
    We show that we appreciate the ransom by getting to know more about Jehovah, by exercising faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice, and by attending the Lord’s Evening Meal.—John 3:16.


    Study Questions
    1, 2. (a) When does a gift have great value to you personally? (b) Why can it be said that the ransom is the most valuable gift you could ever receive?
    3. What is the ransom, and what do we need to understand in order to appreciate this valuable gift?
    4. What did perfect human life mean for Adam?
    5. What does the Bible mean when it says that Adam was made “in God’s image”?
    6. When Adam disobeyed God, what did he lose, and how were his offspring affected?
    7, 8. A ransom basically involves what two things?
    9. What sort of ransom was required?
    10. How did Jehovah provide the ransom?
    11. How could one man serve as a ransom for millions?
    12. What was proved by Jesus’ suffering?
    13. How was the ransom paid?
    14, 15. To receive “the forgiveness of our sins,” what must we do?
    16. What enables us to worship God with a clean conscience, and what is the value of such a conscience?
    17. What blessings are made possible because Jesus died for us?
    18. Why should we be grateful to Jehovah for the provision of the ransom?
    19, 20. In what ways can you show that you appreciate God’s gift of the ransom?
    21, 22. (a) Why should we attend the annual observance of the Lord’s Evening Meal? (b) What will be explained in Chapters*6 and*7?

  11. #71
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Translation: you've got nothing. See ya!


    Sadly, you are so used to people telling you what to think that you won't have it any other way and ask me to provide more of the same. I, however, won't enable that in anyone. With sincere respect, I also must tell you I think those questions are insignificant and only serve to make one into an encyclopedia of empty facts.

    When you ask me about the bible, ask me about sacrifice, about love, about compassion, transformation, redemption, that which can save us. Not about the same old, tired topics of kingdom hall talks.

    I have, in fact, been trying to help you, contrary to what the JW organization tells members about us "system of things" participants, and have not been trying to make you consider leaving your faith at all.

    It is the anger and bitterness, cultivated by watchtower lies, that has drawn this conversation out, when I simply asked you, and others, to do one thing: read the bible without your, or anyone else's, baggage, so that there is no impediment to really understanding Jesus' message.

    Because JW members read articles and books by anonymous JW's (I guess so that JW's and students aren't able to consider the fact that the mags are written by mere mortals, with names like Bob and Joey), alongside the bible, never just the bible alone, you always have middlemen between you and Jesus. This should not be so.

    It is the same as when atheists allow someone who only reads the bible to debunk it to stand between them and an opportunity to directly "communicate" with Jesus.

    Again, I have not asked you to leave the JW's. I think religion can be a positive thing. I have simply asked you to find, and practice, unconditional love, as demonstrated by Jesus. This is the only thing, if you look back at all my posts, I have challenged everyone to do. Your insensitive posts, in regards to a number of people that have suffered because of this organization prove you have not know this love. I say that not as an attack, but as what is borne out by your comments.

    So, please don't play the witness victim card you are urged to use by the JW organization. I know they tell you rumors about philosophy, non JW individuals (who the WTS slanders and libels as immoral: drunkards, greedy, perverted, etc.) scheming to destroy "true Christians." But, if you truly believe that BS, like ABCD has suggested, you should not even associate with us apostate humans on this site, other than to preach. Even then, your secretly-held disdain for our beliefs (something I witnessed many-a-time at meetings) should not be hidden in shame, you should shout it from the mountain tops... if you believe Jesus spoke of this hate to the "anointed."


    PEACE n' LOVE
    Last edited by OGKnickfan; Jan 17, 2011 at 14:59.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Translation:

    You are so used to people telling you what to think that you won't have it any other way and ask me to provide more of the same. I, however, won't enable that in anyone. I also think those questions are insignificant and only serve to make one into an encyclopedia of empty facts.

    When you ask me about the bible, ask me about sacrifice, about love, about compassion, transformation, redemption, that which can save us. Not about the same old tired topics of kingdom hall talks.

    I have, in fact, been trying to help you, contrary to what the JW's tells members about us "system of things" participants, and not trying to take you away from your faith at all.

    It is your anger and bitterness, cultivated by watchtower lies, that has drawn this conversation out, when I simply asked you, and others, to do one thing: read the bible without your, or anyone else's, baggage, so that there is no impediment to really understanding Jesus' message.

    Because you read articles and books by anonymous JW's (I guess so that you aren't able to consider the fact that the mags are written by mere mortals), alongside the bible, never just the bible alone, you always have middlemen between you and Jesus.

    It is the same as when atheists allow someone who only reads the bible to debunk it to stand between them and an opportunity to directly "communicate" with Jesus.

    I have not asked you to leave the JW's. I have asked you to find, and practice, unconditional love. This is the only thing, if you look back at all my posts, I have challenged everyone to do, not just you.

    So, please don't play the witness victim card with me. I know they tell you rumors about philosophy, people (who the WTS slanders and libels as immoral: drunkards, greedy, etc.) scheming to destroy "true Christians." But, if you truly believe that BS, like ABCD has suggested, you should not even associate with us apostate humans on this site, other than to preach. Even then, your secretly-held disdain for our beliefs should not be hidden in shame, you should shout it from the mountain tops.

    PEACE n' LOVE
    And I simply asked you to provide better answers, bibically speaking, to questions I've asked you. You are saying the WatchTower is full of lies, then that means what all JWs believe abt the bible are also lies. Prove it. Answer the questions I posed, or leave it alone. Enough with your philosophy already. Prove what you know, or stop.

    Because simply put, if you asked biblical questions, I would gladly answer them.

    Also, it's quite comical that you say, JW are used to people telling us what to think, but you never seem to apply that to Jesus, who followed along with everything his father taught him. Why is Jesus too not blinded by what God has told him? He says "I do nothing of my own initiative, but what I have seen the Father do". Seems like he is the ultimate follower! And on top of that, he goes around trying to get more people to follow his Father, by "telling" them what the Father expects of his servants.

    Crazy thing is, you think you are slaying my beliefs, but really you are just bumping your head, because this is God's word, not mine! This is why no matter how much you raise your hand in victory, you've already lost, cuz your arms too short to box with God. Old timers saying lol
    Last edited by Knicks4lyfe; Jan 17, 2011 at 15:12.

  13. #73
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    And I simply asked you to provide better answers, bibically speaking, to questions I've asked you. You are saying the WatchTower is full of lies, then that means what all JWs believe abt the bible are also lies. Prove it. Answer the questions I posed, or leave it alone. Enough with your philosophy already. Prove what you know, or stop.

    Because simply put, if you asked biblical questions, I would gladly answer them.

    Also, it's quite comical that you say, JW are used to people telling us what to think, but you never seem to apply that to Jesus, who followed along with everything his father taught him. Why is Jesus too not blinded by what God has told him? He says "I do nothing of my own initiative, but what I have seen the Father do". Seems like he is the ultimate follower! And on top of that, he goes around trying to get more people to follow his Father, by "telling" them what the Father expects of his servants.

    Crazy thing is, you think you are slaying my beliefs, but really you are just bumping your head, because this is God's word, not mine! This is why no matter how much you raise your hand in victory, you've already lost, cuz your arms too short to box with God. Old timers saying lol
    I already said that my call was for EVERYONE to practice unconditional love and for EVERYONE to remove all middlemen from their reading of the gospels. And to your comment that I want to "slay" your beliefs (straight from the watchtower vocabulary), I clearly explained to all that they should keep their atheism, keep their religion, and simply read Jesus' message with no baggage: let the bible teach itself, in other words.

    And I stated in my previous post that I am not the WT society and have no interest in teaching anyone about what I ultimately consider useless info: 144,000, Jesus is Michael, 1914, the insignificant matter of what one calls God, etc.

    And again, my goal is to help all my brothers and sisters on this earth. I have spoken to everyone here with respect and kindness. You have spoken with anger, sarcasm and bitterness. You could be gone tomorrow. Don't let yourself die with a mind full of facts and an empty heart.

    God Bless.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    I already said that my call was for EVERYONE to practice unconditional love and for EVERYONE to remove all middlemen from their reading of the gospels. And to your comment that I want to "slay" your beliefs (straight from the watchtower vocabulary), I clearly explained to all that they should keep their atheism, keep their religion, and simply read Jesus' message with no baggage: let the bible teach itself, in other words.

    And I stated in my previous post that I am not the WT society and have no interest in teaching anyone about what I ultimately consider useless info: 144,000, Jesus is Michael, 1914, the insignificant matter of what one calls God, etc.

    And again, my goal is to help all my brothers and sisters on this earth. I have spoken to everyone here with respect and kindness. You have spoken with anger, sarcasm and bitterness. You could be gone tomorrow. Don't let yourself die with a mind full of facts and an empty heart.

    God Bless.
    Please, stop trying to big yourself up so much. It's a fascade.

    I have not treated "everyone with anger and sarcasm and bitterness" I have treated you and Abdc with sarcasm. But never anger, or bitterness, because You cant affect my daily business in a manner to make me angry or bitter!

    And if the bible has useless information, as you so eloquently put it, how then can you even fix your mouth to present me with the opportunity to learn your pov from it? The bible says all scripture is inspired of God and useful for teaching, reproving and setting matters straight. If that's true, then what of it can be truly deemed "useless information" as you say? If the true Identity of who God is, is unimportant, why does Jehovah Go out of his way to show us he alone is God? Can you truly worship Godif you do not even know his identity?

    The wt society aint disagreeing with you, jw ain't, Gods own word, which you claim to have acquired higher knowledge of is! Your pov of the bible is just flat out wrong according to the bible itself. There is no unimportant info in the bible. It is all relevant for those who seek Jehovah God. You are not. No wonder your biblical knowledge is miniscule at best.

  15. #75
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Please, stop trying to big yourself up so much. It's a fascade.

    I have not treated "everyone with anger and sarcasm and bitterness" I have treated you and Abdc with sarcasm. But never anger, or bitterness, because You cant affect my daily business in a manner to make me angry or bitter!

    And if the bible has useless information, as you so eloquently put it, how then can you even fix your mouth to present me with the opportunity to learn your pov from it? The bible says all scripture is inspired of God and useful for teaching, reproving and setting matters straight. If that's true, then what of it can be truly deemed "useless information" as you say? If the true Identity of who God is, is unimportant, why does Jehovah Go out of his way to show us he alone is God? Can you truly worship Godif you do not even know his identity?

    The wt society aint disagreeing with you, jw ain't, Gods own word, which you claim to have acquired higher knowledge of is! Your pov of the bible is just flat out wrong according to the bible itself. There is no unimportant info in the bible. It is all relevant for those who seek Jehovah God. You are not. No wonder your biblical knowledge is miniscule at best.
    Matthew 5
    • 38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]]39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
    • 11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
    • 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
    You have inflexible rules and watchtower "Christian hate," like the pharisees; and Jesus and I have love, silent and gentle, even for those that hate us. As such, I don't involve myself with returning your hate and insults or with giving you the rules, or support for useless doctrine, i.e., eye for an eye or the explanation of 144,000, that you ask for.

    I continue to exhort you, and all of my fellow beings, to pursue love, unconditionally. Your insults, though you may feel they upset me, make me feel genuine sorrow for you, because they are evidence of your rejection of His (Jesus') call to live and love like Him. They are evidence you are lost.

    1 John 3

    • 11 For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12 Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters,[[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]] if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
    Love, brother, it's the only way to stop waiting for "the end of this system of things" and find some peace now.

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