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Thread: what does the bible really teach?

  1. #106
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    It's laughable you claiming researching anything. You never want to truly know the facts.

    You didn't even research the subject. You found one artccle that said the aging process is poorly understood. Did you even read the article in it's entirety? Saying the aging process is poorly understood doesn't mean we don't know why we age and die. I already explained that. We know it well. The article is about reversing the aging process. Essentially stopping the telomeres from slowly deteriorating. Which we've done with stem cells. Did you research that too? No. This is what you do. Make false statements, then when confronted, resort to "imperfect science doesn't know everything so therefore they don't know anything, therefore I reject all evidence".

    And why bring this up? It wasn't part of the debate in the first place. Jesus was a human being that lived 2000 years ago and only had the knowledge of people that lived 2000 years ago. Nothing more. The bible was written by ancient people that only had the knowledge of ancient people. Hence why the bible is scientifically innaccurate and Jesus thought whales were fish, people can live in the bellies of fish, diseases were cause by demons and didn't know Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark are impossible.

    Einstein, and every educated person living today, has more knowledge than Jesus ever had. It is obvious Jesus was nothing more than a man living 2000 years ago with Bi-polar I disorder.

    You always make false statements (e.g. bible is scientifically accurate, bible is perfect, we haven't discovered the "missing link). I provide evidence to the contrary on every false statement you make. You say "imperfect science doesn't know everything so therefore they don't know anything, therefore I reject all evidence".

    You will then go on, knocking on people's doors saying the bible is perfect, the bible is scientifically accurate, the missing link has not been discovered, we don't know why we age, etc, etc. All the while knowingly telling lies to yourself and others to make you feel better about yourself. Because we all know this has nothing to do with you trying to save people from god or bring people closer to god.

    Einstein was right. You do live in a poor way.
    wait a minute? They found your people?! They found the tweener? Where? WHEEEEEERRRREEEEEE? Where is the monkey man? Stop playin man.

    If you dont know what is causing the aging process to occur, you dont know why we age. U can say x stops doing this, and therefore y happens, with Z result. Then the natural next question is, well what causes x to all of a sudden happen in the first place? Thats when ya get stuck. Therefore, not knowing why it happens. That is why it says it is poorly understood. Poor cannot be a passing grade. Sorry.

    And whether u believe it or not, Jesus helped create the very brain you use daily. The best computer on earth pales in comparison to it. So how could Einstien ever have more intelligence than Jesus? Jesus job was to preach the kingdom message, not to show off his eons of superior Intelligence. Whales look like fish, bats look like birds, the earth appears to be a sphere hanging on nothing. Even today, knowing what we know, that all still holds true. And in the grand scheme of the bible, ITS IRRELEVANT! Just as God is irrelvant to Lucy seekers.


    U aint ever showed me ur peoples. Cuz u aint never finding them. Meanwhile, Jehovah said thousands off years ago he will have a people for his name that will make up alll nations, in united worship of him, and the good news will be preached in the entire inhabited earth.

    2-2 and many more...

  2. #107
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    wait a minute? They found your people?! They found the tweener? Where? WHEEEEEERRRREEEEEE? Where is the monkey man? Stop playin man.
    I already have, many times, in many threads. There is no point in putting in the effort for someone that doesn't want to see because they will lose their family and friends if they accept the facts, evidence and truth.

    Your answer every time is "it's not half-man/half-monkey". It's the equivalent of me saying you don't have a picture of you as half-baby/half-adult, therefore you don't exist.

    Evolution has been proven true to you many times. You either use the same old cop-out answers every time. Or completely ignore the evidence and dodge answering the evidence (e.g. vaccines created from evolutionary theory. Vaccines wouldn't work if evolution were false). Evolution is a fact. Sorry.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    If you dont know what is causing the aging process to occur, you dont know why we age. U can say x stops doing this, and therefore y happens, with Z result. Then the natural next question is, well what causes x to all of a sudden happen in the first place? Thats when ya get stuck. Therefore, not knowing why it happens. That is why it says it is poorly understood. Poor cannot be a passing grade. Sorry.
    Sheesh. I already told you. Every time the cell copies itself, the short bit of the telomere is not copied, so the telomere gets a little shorter each time the cell divides. When the telomere reaches a minimal length after some 50 divisions, the cell can no longer replicate its DNA and therefore cannot replicate itself, and therefore dies.

    I think you are asking the wrong question. Why, as if I were to ask why that mountain exists. We know why, tectonic plates, continental shift, etc. But not why, as in suggesting it has some purpose. To me, there is no "why". Show me a "why" anywhere and I'll listen. But I haven't seen one anywhere.


    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    And whether u believe it or not, Jesus helped create the very brain you use daily. The best computer on earth pales in comparison to it. So how could Einstien ever have more intelligence than Jesus? Jesus job was to preach the kingdom message, not to show off his eons of superior Intelligence. Whales look like fish, bats look like birds, the earth appears to be a sphere hanging on nothing. Even today, knowing what we know, that all still holds true. And in the grand scheme of the bible, ITS IRRELEVANT! Just as God is irrelvant to Lucy seekers.


    U aint ever showed me ur peoples. Cuz u aint never finding them. Meanwhile, Jehovah said thousands off years ago he will have a people for his name that will make up alll nations, in united worship of him, and the good news will be preached in the entire inhabited earth.

    2-2 and many more...
    This is very funny. Keep believing that because it makes you feel better about yourself. Still waiting for the world to end. We've been debating for many years now. You've been saying the same thing the whole time. Still no end.

    Deep down you know you're wrong. The evidence against, the absolute absence of evidence for, and the complete illogical thought of an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful, perfect being that f*cked up and didn't get what he expected is enough for any logical being to see the truth.

    But you are not allowed. You do not believe what you believe because of evidence. You HAVE to believe it. 1.) It makes you feel better about yourself because it makes you feel important to know you know the hidden truth and the rest of the world is blind and wrong. Whatever happened in your life to make you need this self-esteem boost is up to you to analyze and ask yourself why you need it. 2.) You will lose your family and all your friends and will be isolated if you accept the facts for what they are. That must be tough. That would be difficult for any person to abandon. This is why cults have so much power over individuals.

    Unfortunately, you are so deep in the JW cult and so brainwashed, you may never know the truth until your deathbed. 20 years may pass without the end of the world and you'll still tell yourself that it's coming, regardless of the advancement in science and knowledge.

    You will have wasted so many years of your life. And I will be there to remind you. Like I said, Einstein was right, you do live in a poor way.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Jan 20, 2011 at 09:12.

  3. #108
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    Wow. One of the best religion/psychology/science discussions I've ever read on any sports forum. Or philosophy forum. Or Harvard Review forum. Any forum. Period.

    Abcd wrecked this **** up like prime Ultimate Warrior. Stick to thrashing JW's and zealots; not SSOL and The Hen, . But really, ultra quality debate.

    Lj and OG, even k4lyfe, had one or two posts a piece that I'll likely re-read periodically.

    My lone thought is one that we can all wonder as ourselves; having accepted, even explcitly stated, the terminal nature of k4lyfe's beliefs, why we still debate and discuss, with earnest effort and even a terminal faith of our own. It touches upon a definition of insanity and dogmatic stagnation of your own.

  4. #109
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    The Jehovah's Witnesses claim the governing body is "God's Channel." So why does "God's channel" make so many false predictions? 1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, 1994?

    Is God lying to the governing body on purpose?

    Let me guess, the governing body are imperfect men?

    You're guilty of contradiction #1.



    Study your religion's history, and you will see that Charles Taze Russell modeled all of his beliefs after the Seventh-Day Adventists.

    But the Watchtower Society forbids its members from researching, because the internet is controlled by "Satan." So I doubt you'll do such a thing.

    And why is it that Jehovah's Witnesses always mention in their Watchtower publications that they are the only true Christians?

    If you're God's chosen people, why do you have to prove that to anyone?

    Is it because your organization doubts itself after making 10 failed Armageddon predictions? Possibly.



    That's why a woman was asked by the Jehovah's Witnesses if there was something in the Watchtower that contradicted the Bible, would she choose the Magazine or the Bible. She said she'd choose the Bible and got disfellowshipped.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]



    You're guilty of contradiction #4.





    That's why Witnesses refer to the words of others as "valueless" and "worthless." And they call all non-Witness denominations "apostate Christianity."

    Contradiction #4.

    P.S.-If Apostates are trying to create their own religions like the JWs claim, what are the names of these new religions?

    Why hasn't anyone heard of them?

    Did God lie to the governing body and tell him to teach that to his members?
    First of all, God does not persobally speak to humans these days, if you actually picked up a bible and half way pretended you could comprehend, you would likely know why. But let me inform you. There is no need, because we have his written word, the bible. It has everything one needs to know. Its complete and has every detail mapped out.

    And, as a people, we did not have a full understanding of certain aspects of the word, that we certainly have now. For instance, Jesus said in mathew 28:14 the good news of the kingdom will be preached in the entire inhabited earth, and THEN, the end will come.

    That could not have possibly been, by most of those dates, because Jehovah was just starting to build up his people. And the whole world certainly had not heard the truth abt God by those dates.

    And while those predictions as you say may put the organization in a negative light by most standards, the intention was to inform the public of an eventual reality. It will be realized. No one will be able to say "Jehovah, I never heard of you" when it comes. That is why Jehovah even allowed it to happen. Plus those who were not in the organization for the right reasons, left, due to lack of faith, even though the truth transformed their lives in a positive way.

    And there are more reasons. But that will suffice.

    We have to show people, from the bible why we are Gods people, because there are gazillion roads leading off to destruction, but the path to God is narrow. Therefore, we must preach the Kingdom message to proclaim Jehovah as the God everyone is seeking. They cannot be saved without knowledge of the savoir.

    and yes, JW and 7th day adventist were once very similar in doctrine. Cept now we still follow the bible, and they dont. This is why we are Gods witnesses. We actually follow the bible.

    Did u really get so corny as to post a video of JW haters telling stories about disfellowshipping, and it did not even have the party spoken of, present? C'mon son!
    I knew off the bay that was bs, because a jw ultimate source IS THE BIBLE! The watchtower, awake, or any other publication is to assist in teaching THE BIBLE! so that old lady is LYING!

    And the other christian faiths are apostate because they don't teach the truth from the bible
    which helps promotes lies such as

    Immortal soul
    hell
    saved by grace
    the trinity
    all good go to heaven
    God rules the world

    All lies. And all a jw needs is the bible to refute such slander against Jehovah.

    Gain some understanding.

  5. #110
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    The ancient sage, and founder of Taoism, Lao Tzu tells us about the nature of the supreme (what he calls the Tao), which pervades ALL and is ONE, everywhere, egolessly absorbing "evil" and "good," free from all conditions that would result in anything else.

    With no further ado, for the sake of your enlightenment...

    "(The Tao) produces (all things) and nourishes them; it produces them and does not claim them as its own; it does all, and yet does not boast of it; it presides over all, and yet does not control them. This is what is called 'The mysterious Quality' (of the Tao)."
    -Lao Tzu, The Tao Te Ching
    Last edited by OGKnickfan; Jan 20, 2011 at 23:06.

  6. #111
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    Proof that the Watchtower Society believes anyone who uses the Bible alone (Including Jehovah's Witnesses who use the New World Translation alone) is with satan:
    "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude. ... They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home." --The Watchtower, August 15, 1981, page 28-29

    It is a fact that most people in your situation ignore anything anyone tells them, because they are trained by the governing body aka men to believe everyone is part of Satan's "system of things."

    But this is the hate being taught from your very own magazine.
    Jehovah's Witnesses are discouraged from reading the Bible for themselves, without the help of a man-made magazine that supposedly comes from Jehovah God, through the governing body.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    Top 10 Contradictions of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
    10. Jehovah's Witnesses are against abortion, but they support denying babies life saving blood transfusions.
    "With you is the source of life.Psalm 36:9(New World Translation)Life, then, is a gift from God."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    "Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, 20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood."
    Acts 15:19-20(New World Translation)
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    9. Jehovah's Witnesses are against blood transfusions, but as of 2000 support receiving and donating "fractional blood." Where's the quote where Jehovah says blood is bad, unless it's fractional? I do not know.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    According to the JW's history, they willingly accepted and donated blood until 1945.


    8. Charles Taze Russell, the Watchtower Society, and many members of the Jehovah's Witnesses have made a combined 10 false end of the world predictions: 1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, and 1994, but they claim the "governing body" is the mouthpiece for Jehovah God.

    7. The Jehovah's Witnesses(Est. 1881) claim to be "God's channel" yet 90% of their beliefs are the same as the Seventh-Day Adventist's beliefs(Est. 1844).
    Ex: SDA's(Est. 1844) believe salvation is through works and faith; JW's(1881) believe the exact same thing. SDA's(Est. 1844) believe Jesus is the archangel Michael; JW's(Est. 1881) believe the exact same thing. SDA's believe holidays are of pagan origin; JW's believe the exact same thing. SDA's believe Hell is not real; JW's believe the same thing. SDA's believe they are the only true Christians; JW's believe the same thing.

    6. Jehovah's Witnesses believe everyone outside of their religion is "worldly" and "under the power of Satan" yet they work in Government jobs, attend public school, and eat at fast food restaurants.

    5. Jehovah's Witnesses are against Catholicism, yet from 1960 to 1983, the Jehovah's Witnesses Governing Body used a Catholic Spirit Medium(Johannes Greber's) interpretation of the Bible to support their New World Translation.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    4. Jehovah's Witnesses claim they do not support judging others:
    "Jesus said that we should not be judging one another."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Yet in their April 15, 2008 study edition of their Watchtower Magazine, it says the following: "Another example of valueless words is found among the leaders of Christendom. Those claim to speak in God's name, but most of their utterances are not based on the Scriptures, and what they are saying is basically worthless. In other words, the governing body believes what the other denominations (Catholics, SDA's, Mormons, Baptists, Pentecostals) have to say is worthless.
    The April 15, 2008 study edition of the Watchtower Magazine goes on to say: "Apostates too speak valuless words."

    3. Jehovah's Witnesses claim you can come and leave the Jehovah's Witnesses as you please, but the governing body disfellowships people from their entire family, friends, spouses, and children if they choose to no longer believe or join another Christian denomination.

    2. Most Jehovah's Witnesses will claim they are not brainwashed.
    However, the Watchtower Society supports brainwashing.
    "A musician who had lived the unreal life on drugs began studying the Bible With Jehovah's Witnesses. His associates ridiculed him, taunting "You are being brainwashed." He aptly[appropriately] replied: The shape our brains are in, they need a good washing."
    Watchtower, March 15, 1973 Page 186-187 Paragraph 27

    1. The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the "only true Christians" and
    "the only right religion." They even believe all other non-witnesses and religions are under the power of Satan. Yet, at the same time, when you point out their failed predictions & their child molestation incidents, they claim to not be perfect.


    Most Witnesses are unaware of this, however, the first President of the Jehovah's Witnesses was "William Henry Conley."

    Q: Why do Jehovah's Witnesses deny William Henry Conley was their first president?

    A: William Henry Conley stopped believing in Russell's teachings, after his failed prophecies in 1874, 1878, and 1881. AND Conley donated money to non-Witness denominations.

    That's right, folks. The very first President of the Jehovah's Witnesses chose to no longer believe in the Jehovah's Witness religion, after he had discovered Charles Taze Russell scammed him out of 1,000s of dollars in "donations" that he gave after being told Armageddon would come in 1881. In 1882, Conley stopped handing Russell donations, and his name was mysteriously no longer listed as the first president of the Watchtower.
    Yet they are "the only true Christians."

    In addition, Conley donated money to Christian denominations that Jehovah's Witnesses of today claim are "false and part of "Christendom."

  7. #112
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    I already have, many times, in many threads. There is no point in putting in the effort for someone that doesn't want to see because they will lose their family and friends if they accept the facts, evidence and truth.

    Your answer every time is "it's not half-man/half-monkey". It's the equivalent of me saying you don't have a picture of you as half-baby/half-adult, therefore you don't exist.

    Evolution has been proven true to you many times. You either use the same old cop-out answers every time. Or completely ignore the evidence and dodge answering the evidence (e.g. vaccines created from evolutionary theory. Vaccines wouldn't work if evolution were false). Evolution is a fact. Sorry.
    Now who's copping out? You want people to believe that there is a mysterious common ancestor, no one has ever seen, nor ever will, without evidence, something you claim science hinges on. But in the next breath, you wanna tell me that the only way you believe in God is if he comes from heaven and has a personal conversation with you.

    Neanderthals were hairy, senseless, ape looking men, at one time, who now, with scientific revision, seem more modern human all the sudden. They could have even mated with modern humans, when at one time you told me they couldn't.

    Meanwhile, the God who does not exists says this very early in his book. Genesis 1:24 And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so

    This would logically, if not in true scientific detail, tell us why even though Neanderthal is somewhat different from Modern man, it is still a MAN, according to it's kind, which is why we could mate with them, and not monkey's.

    God allows for variations and some change within a species, which could be the logical explanation for your vaccines, not neccesarily evolution. The same way we have Neanderthal and Modern humans. Different, but same species.

    If evolution were true, why are we stuck like this? Should we not still be getting better?

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Sheesh. I already told you. Every time the cell copies itself, the short bit of the telomere is not copied, so the telomere gets a little shorter each time the cell divides. When the telomere reaches a minimal length after some 50 divisions, the cell can no longer replicate its DNA and therefore cannot replicate itself, and therefore dies.

    I think you are asking the wrong question. Why, as if I were to ask why that mountain exists. We know why, tectonic plates, continental shift, etc. But not why, as in suggesting it has some purpose. To me, there is no "why". Show me a "why" anywhere and I'll listen. But I haven't seen one anywhere..
    What exactly made the article say "we understand it poorly"? Because you make it seem as if it's comepletely understood.

    For instance, why does the short bit of the telomere not get copied all of a sudden? Why does that even happen in the first place?




    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    This is very funny. Keep believing that because it makes you feel better about yourself. Still waiting for the world to end. We've been debating for many years now. You've been saying the same thing the whole time. Still no end.

    Deep down you know you're wrong. The evidence against, the absolute absence of evidence for, and the complete illogical thought of an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful, perfect being that f*cked up and didn't get what he expected is enough for any logical being to see the truth.
    It's only been 3 years. You say it as if it's been 25.

    And explain to me how Jehovah f'd up as you say? Because from where I sit, he made all intelligent lifeforms (Angels and Humans) with the ability to love. But you cannot be a robot, and have that ability. Therefore, when deciding to make these creatures, Jehovah knew that they would also have the ability to NOT show love. But without that ability to NOT show love, they would be robots. And that was not part of the design. A man as smart as you claim to be should understand this with ease. He set up all of these creatures and their dominant feature was love. We know that these creatures can show love, and they work perfectly, because while some Angels and some humans do not show Love, some have remained faithful. Jesus being the greatest example of them all, being he showed his faith as an Angel in heaven, emptied himself out, became a human, and did it again! Just to prove that God DID NOT F UP! Free will, is accompanied by free moral agents who can love. Some use it for righteousness, some don't. Just because some choose to forego the gift of everlasting life with God, by choosing to leave him, does not mean God messed up. No different if you decide to play in the street, even though your parents warn you you may get hit by a car one day, and you get hit. You're parents are not to blame, you're stupidity is.



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    But you are not allowed. You do not believe what you believe because of evidence. You HAVE to believe it. 1.) It makes you feel better about yourself because it makes you feel important to know you know the hidden truth and the rest of the world is blind and wrong. Whatever happened in your life to make you need this self-esteem boost is up to you to analyze and ask yourself why you need it. 2.) You will lose your family and all your friends and will be isolated if you accept the facts for what they are. That must be tough. That would be difficult for any person to abandon. This is why cults have so much power over individuals.

    Unfortunately, you are so deep in the JW cult and so brainwashed, you may never know the truth until your deathbed. 20 years may pass without the end of the world and you'll still tell yourself that it's coming, regardless of the advancement in science and knowledge.

    You will have wasted so many years of your life. And I will be there to remind you. Like I said, Einstein was right, you do live in a poor way.
    I am allowed to believe what I wish. I am a free moral agent. However, Jehovah just makes way more sense than you do. It makes sense why he allows Satan to rule this world. It makes sense why Jesus had to be born from a Virgin, being that he is called the ransom, and Adam was perfect before sin, and Jesus perfect life, brought humanity back the chance at life, that Adam lost for us, by sinning.

    It makes sense he has always had witnesses that He is God, dating back to Abel, since in essence, a legal court case is being played out for all of us to see who is right, God or Satan. It makes sense that there is 50 billion religions in the world that Satan uses to confuse and mislead the world, so that people can die like he is going to. It also makes sense why God has his people preaching to warn of such.

    It makes perfectly good sense that God, in his written word, the Bible, has given us examples on a small scale, of what he plans to do on a large scale. Sodom and Gommorah, destroyed the wicked in that city, saved the few who had faith. The flood. Destroyed the wicked, saved the righteous. 8 ressurections occured in the bible. Jesus said do not marvel at this, because one day all of those in memorial tombs will rise at the sound of his voice. It makes sense why it tells us he walked on water to calm the raging sea. Why? Because if he can do that with mere words, would humanity ever have to worry about natural disasters under his rule?

    It makes sense it tells us he fed thousands with a few fish. Why? Because would humanity ever have to worry about food shortages under his rule if he can feed thousands with a few fish.

    It makes sense Jesus tells his followers to be in the world, but not of the world. Why? Because if Satan can offer jesus all the Kingdoms in the world, for an act of worship, common sense should tell a person, the world must be his to GIVE! Which then automatically means that he is in charge of how it is ran. No wonder the world is so jacked up! It all makes sense now!

    It makes sense that Satan hid behind a snake to decieve Eve. Because it's better that the world not know he is to blame for this. Blame God! It's his mistake! He shoulda seen this coming!

    See the trend? Too much of God's word makes too much dang sense!

    Wanna know what else makes sense? The fact that at the end of the Bible, it says words like thiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssss...

    Rev 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”


    Because the Devil has been proven a liar! He is just like a person on death row, awaiting the day of sentence. This makes sense! This is why the preaching work has to be done! So God can get to this point where these things are no more!

    Nothing you say will ever make more logical sense than this, because if it were not true, there would be no preaching work. There would be no people made up of all nations in united worship of Jehovah God. But there is! It's here. It's tangible!

    where is that common ancestor again?

  8. #113
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    I already have, many times, in many threads. There is no point in putting in the effort for someone that doesn't want to see because they will lose their family and friends if they accept the facts, evidence and truth.

    Your answer every time is "it's not half-man/half-monkey". It's the equivalent of me saying you don't have a picture of you as half-baby/half-adult, therefore you don't exist.

    Evolution has been proven true to you many times. You either use the same old cop-out answers every time. Or completely ignore the evidence and dodge answering the evidence (e.g. vaccines created from evolutionary theory. Vaccines wouldn't work if evolution were false). Evolution is a fact. Sorry.



    Sheesh. I already told you. Every time the cell copies itself, the short bit of the telomere is not copied, so the telomere gets a little shorter each time the cell divides. When the telomere reaches a minimal length after some 50 divisions, the cell can no longer replicate its DNA and therefore cannot replicate itself, and therefore dies.

    I think you are asking the wrong question. Why, as if I were to ask why that mountain exists. We know why, tectonic plates, continental shift, etc. But not why, as in suggesting it has some purpose. To me, there is no "why". Show me a "why" anywhere and I'll listen. But I haven't seen one anywhere.

    This is very funny. Keep believing that because it makes you feel better about yourself. Still waiting for the world to end. We've been debating for many years now. You've been saying the same thing the whole time. Still no end.

    Deep down you know you're wrong. The evidence against, the absolute absence of evidence for, and the complete illogical thought of an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful, perfect being that f*cked up and didn't get what he expected is enough for any logical being to see the truth.

    But you are not allowed. You do not believe what you believe because of evidence. You HAVE to believe it. 1.) It makes you feel better about yourself because it makes you feel important to know you know the hidden truth and the rest of the world is blind and wrong. Whatever happened in your life to make you need this self-esteem boost is up to you to analyze and ask yourself why you need it. 2.) You will lose your family and all your friends and will be isolated if you accept the facts for what they are. That must be tough. That would be difficult for any person to abandon. This is why cults have so much power over individuals.

    Unfortunately, you are so deep in the JW cult and so brainwashed, you may never know the truth until your deathbed. 20 years may pass without the end of the world and you'll still tell yourself that it's coming, regardless of the advancement in science and knowledge.

    You will have wasted so many years of your life. And I will be there to remind you. Like I said, Einstein was right, you do live in a poor way.
    The Jehovah's Witnesses have a "Theocratic Warfare policy."
    Each member of the Jehovah's Witnesses learns the policy at their "Theocratic Ministry School."

    The members are trained to lie and withhold information from "outsiders" and people who supposedly aren't "entitled" to the truth.

    In other words, every member of the Jehovah's Witnesses
    (including Knicks4lyfe) has a right to lie to people, when they knock on people's doors to "preach the good news."

    According to the Watchtower, lying "does not harm anyone."

    'So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good. Today God's servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God's servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God's Kingdom.' Watchtower May 1, 1957 Page 285 - 286.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    'We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive. ... As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies.' Watchtower June 1, 1960, pages 351-352."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    'While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. ... Evidently the course of Abraham, Isaac, Rahab, and Elisha in misdirecting or in withholding full facts from nonworshipers of Jehovah must be viewed in the same light.
    "Insight On The Scriptures", Volume 2, 1988 pages 244-245.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Now who's copping out? You want people to believe that there is a mysterious common ancestor, no one has ever seen, nor ever will, without evidence, something you claim science hinges on. But in the next breath, you wanna tell me that the only way you believe in God is if he comes from heaven and has a personal conversation with you.
    You have it reversed. We have seen it. We have evidence. We have seen evolution occur, in real life. We have all the evidence in the world. I've even shown you this several times in several threads.

    Noone has seen god. You have no evidence.

    God doesn't have to have a personal conversation with me. Just find one bit of evidence that proves evolution false. Find a rabbit (or any mammal) fossil that existed 500 million years ago. Or a dinosaur fossil that lived 50,000 years ago. There are a million examples that could prove evolution false. But not one, ever has been found. Every single piece of evidence strenghtens evolution. And with our recent understanding of genetics and DNA, and the mapping of genomes, it is 100% certain evolution is true.

    Like I've said a hundred times. I have mountains of evidence (literally) you have zero. I'll stick with the evdence over some invisible being that nobody has seen.


    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Neanderthals were hairy, senseless, ape looking men, at one time, who now, with scientific revision, seem more modern human all the sudden. They could have even mated with modern humans, when at one time you told me they couldn't.
    I never said Neaderthals couldn't mate with humans. The thought that they might actually, again, strengthens evolution. So I don't know why you always bring this up. It actually hurts your argument.

    And because science learns more and adjusts doesn't mean they're wrong. People at one point thought the earth was the center of the universe. Does this mean we don't know that the earth is the 3rd planet from the sun and the sun is the center of our solar system, and our solar system is on a spiral arm of the milky way galaxy? No. In fact, not too long ago we believed the Milky Way galaxy was the only galaxy. No we know there are hundreds of billions of galaxies.

    People in Jesus' time, even Jesus himself, thought illness came from demons. Now we know that simple sanitation can save lives.

    We know they were wrong then. That doesn't mean we're wrong now. That's the point of science. To learn. Advance knowledge, which you refuse to do. I have yet to see science reverse understanding, only enhance it.

    And again, this is a childish response from someone who can't debate the topic at hand. Change the subject and get your last word in so you can boost your obviously low self-esteem.


    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Meanwhile, the God who does not exists says this very early in his book. Genesis 1:24 And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so

    This would logically, if not in true scientific detail, tell us why even though Neanderthal is somewhat different from Modern man, it is still a MAN, according to it's kind, which is why we could mate with them, and not monkey's.
    Once again, you misinterpret the bible. This passage is referring to creating all kinds of animals.

    The message:

    God spoke: "Earth, generate life! Every sort and kind:
    cattle and reptiles and wild animals—all kinds."
    And there it was:
    wild animals of every kind,
    Cattle of all kinds, every sort of reptile and bug.
    God saw that it was good.


    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Contemporary english version:

    God said, "I command the earth to give life to all kinds of tame animals, wild animals, and reptiles." And that's what happened. 25God made every one of them. Then he looked at what he had done, and it was good.

    You have real problems interpreting the bible. Not surprising coming from a group that keeps prediciting the end of the world and getting it wrong.

    Incidentally, in this passage the bible states that god created domestic animals. More evidence that proves the bible is wrong. We created domestic animals during the Mesolithic Period. Cows, dogs, etc did not exist before we got hold of their ancestors and through Artificial Selection, we have created the animals that you see today.

    More evidence for evolution and against the bible. Damn. It just keeps getting worse and worse for you. How much longer can you keep this charade up? I have evidence and facts that contradict the bible, you have false statements in the bible and invisible friends that nobody can see or has ever seen


    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    God allows for variations and some change within a species, which could be the logical explanation for your vaccines, not neccesarily evolution. The same way we have Neanderthal and Modern humans. Different, but some species.

    If evolution were true, why are we stuck like this? Should we not still be getting better?
    Bingo!! Variations within species!! This is the basis for evolution. Variation within species. When populations within species migrate, or are split apart from various physical or meteorlogical changes in the earth, the natural selection forces differ in those areas, and drive SPECIATION!!! It's a proven fact. Speciation over hundreds of thousands of years, millions of years, billions of years is evolution. If we can change animals so drastically in a few thousand years through artificial selection, think how different species can change though natural selection over billions of years.

    Who said we are stuck like this? You think in such short periods of time. Neandrthals occured 50,000 years ago. We are quite different from them. Obviously we are evolving. But for short-sighted people like yourself, you can barely comprehend a little longer than your immediate history/life/future.




    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    What exactly made the article say "we understand it poorly"? Because you make it seem as if it's comepletely understood.

    For instance, why does the short bit of the telomere not get copied all of a sudden? Why does that even happen in the first place?
    Why it's lost is what we understand poorly. But like everything on this earth and in this universe, there is imperfection. Nothing is perfect. Whenever something is copied over and over and over, typically little bits of information are lost.

    If you want to play god of the gaps (i.e. what we don't know must be god) go ahead. I won't let ignorance run my life. I will always look to educate and learn more.

    All it takes is for one little bit of data to contradict what I know and support what you believe for me to change. Just one little bit. Actual data, evidence. Not more bible misinterpretations. Facts that can be verified. Just one. Until then, I will follow the facts and evidence.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    It's only been 3 years. You say it as if it's been 25.
    Yeah 3 years. And each year you say it's real soon. That you believe it's happening within 2-5 years. Well, you've got two more years before your time is up.

    How long will you be able to get away with saying it's coming real soon? 20 years? You'll see eventually. Like I said, it may not be until you are close to your deathbed since you are so deep into the JW cult and can't get out, but eventually you'll see.

    I know god is not coming down to murder 99% of his favorite creation. I am 100% certain of this. I will always be here to remind you. Every year that goes by.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    I am allowed to believe what I wish. I am a free moral agent. However, Jehovah just makes way more sense than you do. It makes sense why he allows Satan to rule this world. It makes sense why Jesus had to be born from a Virgin, being that he is called the ransom, and Adam was perfect before sin, and Jesus perfect life, brought humanity back the chance at life, that Adam lost for us, by sinning.

    It makes sense he has always had witnesses that He is God, dating back to Abel, since in essence, a legal court case is being played out for all of us to see who is right, God or Satan. It makes sense that there is 50 billion religions in the world that Satan uses to confuse and mislead the world, so that people can die like he is going to. It also makes sense why God has his people preaching to warn of such.
    Wait, it makes sense that an all-knowing, all powerful, all-seeing, all loving being is going to kill 99% of his favorite creation to prove that he was right. And these dead people are somehow suppossed to learn a lesson or something. How are they suppossed to learn a lesson if they're dead?

    For a brief second they realize they were being decieved by another invisible creature that the invisible all-knowing being created and then they're dead. What is the f*cking point?

    And the only people that are saved are the ones that were right all along, so what do they have to learn? Nothing, they've been living the right way from the beginning. What's the f*cking point?

    Sounds like some real petty, egomaniacal, cruel, sadistic sh*t to me.

    It's the equivalent of telling your child not to eat any candy, then placing candy all over the house, and when your child ate some candy, you shoot him in the head, even though you knew ahead of time he would eat the candy anyway. Yeah, makes perfect sense. WHAT A SICK MOTHERF*CKER!! SMH.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    It makes sense it tells us he fed thousands with a few fish. Why? Because would humanity ever have to worry about food shortages under his rule if he can feed thousands with a few fish.

    It makes sense Jesus tells his followers to be in the world, but not of the world. Why? Because if Satan can offer jesus all the Kingdoms in the world, for an act of worship, common sense should tell a person, the world must be his to GIVE! Which then automatically means that he is in charge of how it is ran. No wonder the world is so jacked up! It all makes sense now!

    It makes sense that Satan hid behind a snake to decieve Eve. Because it's better that the world not know he is to blame for this. Blame God! It's his mistake! He shoulda seen this coming!

    See the trend? Too much of God's word makes too much dang sense!

    Wanna know what else makes sense? The fact that at the end of the Bible, it says words like thiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssss...

    Rev 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”


    Because the Devil has been proven a liar! He is just like a person on death row, awaiting the day of sentence. This makes sense! This is why the preaching work has to be done! So God can get to this point where these things are no more!
    Why does god have to wait to get to the point where we live the way he wanted? He's god. He can do anything. This seems to hint that god doesn't want what he created? He is unhappy with us? How could a PERFECT, ALL-KNOWING, ALL-SEEING being not be happy with something HE CREATED? That does't make any sense. He created it!! If he can see in the future, is all-knowing and all-seeing, how the f*ck could he make something that he didn't know he was going to be unhappy with. It shows imperfection, if anything

    And why the f*ck would an all-knowing, all-seeing, perfect being that can see into the future create Satan?!? He would have known Adam was going to sin before he even created satan. HE'S ALL-KNOWING!!!

    So why go through all this to prove what he already knows? That his creation cannot do what he wants. He would have known this from the moment he created anything, even before he created anything. He already would have known. But he goes through with it anyway.

    Meanwhile thousands of years of suffering, billions of deaths later he proves to the people that already know, and he already knows, what he wants, which the good people already know and he knows. Yet, the people that don't know, will not know because they will be killed.

    Why the f*ck would a PERFECT, ALL-KNOWING, ALL-SEEING being prove to himself what he WOULD ALREADY KNOW?!?

    I'm sorry, none of that makes any sense or follows any sort of logic. I can't believe you actually tell yourself this. SMH.

    I'll stick with the facts. Thanks.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Jan 22, 2011 at 19:42.

  10. #115
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    The Jehovah's Witnesses have a "Theocratic Warfare policy."
    Each member of the Jehovah's Witnesses learns the policy at their "Theocratic Ministry School."

    The members are trained to lie and withhold information from "outsiders" and people who supposedly aren't "entitled" to the truth.

    In other words, every member of the Jehovah's Witnesses
    (including Knicks4lyfe) has a right to lie to people, when they knock on people's doors to "preach the good news."

    According to the Watchtower, lying "does not harm anyone."

    'So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good. Today God's servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God's servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God's Kingdom.' Watchtower May 1, 1957 Page 285 - 286.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    'We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive. ... As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies.' Watchtower June 1, 1960, pages 351-352."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    'While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. ... Evidently the course of Abraham, Isaac, Rahab, and Elisha in misdirecting or in withholding full facts from nonworshipers of Jehovah must be viewed in the same light.
    "Insight On The Scriptures", Volume 2, 1988 pages 244-245.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Now that I read this, I remember reading about this in various watchtower publications. I also remember hearing it about it from different officials: elders, district overseers, etc. Guess they felt comfortable saying this stuff around me, an outsider.

    Anyway, good work digging this up. No wonder K4L avoids answering so many of our questions and tries to find ways to avoid giving direct answers.

  11. #116
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    We should all agree that our belief requires us to have some form of faith.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Now that I read this, I remember reading about this in various watchtower publications. I also remember hearing it about it from different officials: elders, district overseers, etc. Guess they felt comfortable saying this stuff around me, an outsider.

    Anyway, good work digging this up. No wonder K4L avoids answering so many of our questions and tries to find ways to avoid giving direct answers.

    hahahahhaha! This is the most blatant lie in this thread!

    If anything, I try to go beyond the call of duty to give direct answers!

    You are the one who claims to have a handle on the bible (no you don't) and still have not answered my questions posed to you. But how did you put it earlier? Think you said they're "irrelevant". The guy with soooooo much loooove and peace for the brothers, and is in such nirvana, spiritually speaking, does not love me enough to even honor answering questions, he has the answers to! Showing sooooo much looooooove! help me brother! I'm lost! I need answers! Please help me brother OG! lol...

  13. #118
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    We should all agree that our belief requires us to have some form of faith.
    True: but I have a great deal of respect for the atheist (he who is allegedly seen as having no faith), in the sense that he wants more than just stories and is ethically disturbed by what he sees amongst the various religious people and their teachings.

    Instead of arguing with the atheist, I think the theist needs to accept the challenge [posed by the atheist] to think about how to tangibly experience his beliefs, thus gaining the atheist's respect. Ultimately, thinking about one's beliefs, trying to find something more than the words, which is what often frustrates atheists, is a positive thing.

    On the other hand, the atheist should take care not to confuse people who follow religion, with no real experience of what they teach, and mere faith, with people who have found "the tangible," few in number, of course, but still there.

    It's easy to hold oneself above reproach, in regard to belief or anything else, but it is the easiest way to ensure oneself is a fool, no matter what one believes.

    Faith, as such, should only be directed at self-enclosing thoughts and actions, e.g., being full of oneself.

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    Originally Posted by abcd
    The Jehovah's Witnesses have a "Theocratic Warfare policy."
    Each member of the Jehovah's Witnesses learns the policy at their "Theocratic Ministry School."

    The members are trained to lie and withhold information from "outsiders" and people who supposedly aren't "entitled" to the truth.

    In other words, every member of the Jehovah's Witnesses
    (including Knicks4lyfe) has a right to lie to people, when they knock on people's doors to "preach the good news."

    According to the Watchtower, lying "does not harm anyone."

    'So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good. Today God's servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God's servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God's Kingdom.' Watchtower May 1, 1957 Page 285 - 286.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    'We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive. ... As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies.' Watchtower June 1, 1960, pages 351-352."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    'While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. ... Evidently the course of Abraham, Isaac, Rahab, and Elisha in misdirecting or in withholding full facts from nonworshipers of Jehovah must be viewed in the same light.
    "Insight On The Scriptures", Volume 2, 1988 pages 244-245.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Good post!

    I addressed this once with LJ, so you're a lil late.

    What this is about, is not forth right lying, as the article states. It can however, be advantageous to be evasive at times. For instance, King David, while on the run from Saul, once had to hide out in enemy territory. He was recognized, and brought before the King, but proceeded to act like a crazy man, though he was not. It saved his life.

    If a witness is put on the stand, concerning another brother, or the organization, it is up to his Christian Conscience to decide if he wants to speak. He could plead the 5th, being evasive. However, if he was to speak, he could not blatantly lie in that instance, as it would dishonor Jehovah, himself, and the organization.

    When a JW knocks on doors, nothing they speak of is a lie, or being evasive.

    Now, you've spent a lot of time trying to show negatives, I will spend some time with positives.

    Truly serving Jehovah transforms lives. You build a personal relationship with the most high, and you learn to teach others, so they can have that same thing. You get to share in the very same preaching work that Christ jesus started. What's bad about following Jesus Christ? He is quite simply the greatest man to ever live. In a landslide.


    JW are the most peaceful religious faction on earth. This is quite simply a well ignored fact by the world. But every other religious faction has people who fight in wars. Fact.

    JW do not dabble in worldly politics. Now, whats positive about that, you ask? Well it's two fold. For JW, it shows that we do not put our faith in worldly Governments to lead humanity. We have already voted for Jehovah God to lead mankind. For the world, it means one religious group does not impact the government. I'm sure that is a postive thing for Athiest's and those of other faiths as well.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    You have it reversed. We have seen it. We have evidence. We have seen evolution occur, in real life. We have all the evidence in the world. I've even shown you this several times in several threads.

    Noone has seen god. You have no evidence.

    God doesn't have to have a personal conversation with me. Just find one bit of evidence that proves evolution false. Find a rabbit (or any mammal) fossil that existed 500 million years ago. Or a dinosaur fossil that lived 50,000 years ago. There are a million examples that could prove evolution false. But not one, ever has been found. Every single piece of evidence strenghtens evolution. And with our recent understanding of genetics and DNA, and the mapping of genomes, it is 100% certain evolution is true.

    Like I've said a hundred times. I have mountains of evidence (literally) you have zero. I'll stick with the evdence over some invisible being that nobody has seen.
    mat 24:14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

    Happening now.

    Isa 2:2 And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. 3 And many peoples will certainly go and say: “Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. 4 And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.

    Is it really a coincidence that there just happens to be a group of people called by the name of Jehovah God, made up of all nations on earth, who refuse to fight in wars?

    Dan 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;

    People laugh when JW say that God's Kingdom is an actual government, set up in heaven, and that is where Jesus currently has taken up post as King of God's actual Kingdom. This is why we preach. We preach the Kingdom of God. Is it a coincidence that thousands of years ago God showed Daniel what would happen in our day, and it is actually taking place?

    What you call, lack of evidence, I see it to be very tangible. No JW is blind. God said A will happen, and it does. All one has to do is pay attn.




    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    I never said Neaderthals couldn't mate with humans. The thought that they might actually, again, strengthens evolution. So I don't know why you always bring this up. It actually hurts your argument.
    You said Neanderthals were not human. If that is the case, there is no way they could mate. Not until I posted that wiki article where it said it was possible did you clarify by saying "not modern human".

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    And because science learns more and adjusts doesn't mean they're wrong. People at one point thought the earth was the center of the universe. Does this mean we don't know that the earth is the 3rd planet from the sun and the sun is the center of our solar system, and our solar system is on a spiral arm of the milky way galaxy? No. In fact, not too long ago we believed the Milky Way galaxy was the only galaxy. No we know there are hundreds of billions of galaxies.
    I see how this works. Only science is allowed to revise, or be wrong. If a JW says "new light" it's met with ridicule. But hey, science can get all the passes necessary

    And I am fine with Scientific revision. As you learn more, clouded thoughts become clearer. Nothing wrong with revision. Scientific or religious.



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    People in Jesus' time, even Jesus himself, thought illness came from demons. Now we know that simple sanitation can save lives.

    We know they were wrong then. That doesn't mean we're wrong now. That's the point of science. To learn. Advance knowledge, which you refuse to do. I have yet to see science reverse understanding, only enhance it.

    And again, this is a childish response from someone who can't debate the topic at hand. Change the subject and get your last word in so you can boost your obviously low self-esteem.
    I asked you to site the verse, where Jesus said demons make people sick. Because I am 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000 % sure you are taking this way out of context.

    The Jews were given specific instructions on cleanliness by Jehovah, when surrounding nations were bathing in fecies. They even washed their hands to their elbows before meals. Clearly, you are taking this out of context.

    Now about my self esteem. I really do not see the relevance of it in this conversation. And it's hilarious that you call me a child, and dumb, and such, yet, you resort to the tactics, pretty often, that would put you in that light.

    Also, I know the truth. I can build a relationship with God, based on that. I have a great wife, gorgeous kids, decent Job, built like Marvin Hagler in his prime, and strikingly handsome. But I'll let you call it!*Kanye shrug*






    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Once again, you misinterpret the bible. This passage is referring to creating all kinds of animals.

    The message:

    God spoke: "Earth, generate life! Every sort and kind:
    cattle and reptiles and wild animals—all kinds."
    And there it was:
    wild animals of every kind,
    Cattle of all kinds, every sort of reptile and bug.
    God saw that it was good.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Contemporary english version:

    God said, "I command the earth to give life to all kinds of tame animals, wild animals, and reptiles." And that's what happened. 25God made every one of them. Then he looked at what he had done, and it was good.

    You have real problems interpreting the bible. Not surprising coming from a group that keeps prediciting the end of the world and getting it wrong.

    Incidentally, in this passage the bible states that god created domestic animals. More evidence that proves the bible is wrong. We created domestic animals during the Mesolithic Period. Cows, dogs, etc did not exist before we got hold of their ancestors and through Artificial Selection, we have created the animals that you see today.

    More evidence for evolution and against the bible. Damn. It just keeps getting worse and worse for you. How much longer can you keep this charade up? I have evidence and facts that contradict the bible, you have false statements in the bible and invisible friends that nobody can see or has ever seen.

    No, you just quoted a bible that fits your viewpoint better. But, does this really need to be addressed? You may be booksmart, but geez, common sense escapes you often in these posts. You say that this verse refers to animals, and yes, it does. But in a broader spectrum, it refers to all of God's creations. How do we know? Simply by looking around. Seeds from and apple tree will never produce oranges. A cat will never have a pitbull. And Monkey's will never produce humans. All of these species produce "According to their kinds". I do not need to see a specific bible verse to show that, the evidence is already there. Sheesh.


    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Bingo!! Variations within species!! This is the basis for evolution. Variation within species. When populations within species migrate, or are split apart from various physical or meteorlogical changes in the earth, the natural selection forces differ in those areas, and drive SPECIATION!!! It's a proven fact. Speciation over hundreds of thousands of years, millions of years, billions of years is evolution. If we can change animals so drastically in a few thousand years through artificial selection, think how different species can change though natural selection over billions of years.
    Just because God has allowed an amount of variation within species, does not mean that evolution is a fact. Sorry.

    And do you hear yourself? Over hundreds of thousands of years? Who is going to be around to witness that? It's been 6 k with modern humans, we have not changed a bit yet. Who will be around to document these changes? And does that not seem convenient? Science can say in, in billions of years from now. X will happen over 3004949303894847236345268129039, 094874626172330204930430200-2834874583933009340. Then they say this "FACT". Who saw that? There is no God. So what human saw these changes? Why didn't the hunter gatherers document any of this? Smart enough to make tools, but not smart enough to document humanities most important events?

    Yet, In a short 6 k years, Modern humans have managed to keep track of History pretty dang well. And we have spaceships. SMH



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Who said we are stuck like this? You think in such short periods of time. Neandrthals occured 50,000 years ago. We are quite different from them. Obviously we are evolving. But for short-sighted people like yourself, you can barely comprehend a little longer than your immediate history/life/future.
    We're so quite different, that we possibly hit that. Sure.






    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Why it's lost is what we understand poorly. But like everything on this earth and in this universe, there is imperfection. Nothing is perfect. Whenever something is copied over and over and over, typically little bits of information are lost.

    If you want to play god of the gaps (i.e. what we don't know must be god) go ahead. I won't let ignorance run my life. I will always look to educate and learn more.

    All it takes is for one little bit of data to contradict what I know and support what you believe for me to change. Just one little bit. Actual data, evidence. Not more bible misinterpretations. Facts that can be verified. Just one. Until then, I will follow the facts and evidence.
    You call incomplete data facts and evidence? Hey, it works for you! Me? I want complete answers. And Jehovah gives them. "We understand it poorly" coincides with not knowing why we get old and die.


    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Yeah 3 years. And each year you say it's real soon. That you believe it's happening within 2-5 years. Well, you've got two more years before your time is up.

    How long will you be able to get away with saying it's coming real soon? 20 years? You'll see eventually. Like I said, it may not be until you are close to your deathbed since you are so deep into the JW cult and can't get out, but eventually you'll see.

    I know god is not coming down to murder 99% of his favorite creation. I am 100% certain of this. I will always be here to remind you. Every year that goes by.
    I said I doubt we have 10 years left in this system. Then you asked what would it take for me to question it. I said 20. Why? Because of new light, we have a better understanding of a certain biblical verse. It speaks of a generation not passing off before the comes. That generation is the group of annointed, or those who give up earthly life, for heavenly life co ruling God's Kingdom for 1000 years. Jesus said before that generation passes away, they will see the end actually happen. We used to think that generation was those born around 1914, and diff years, which has contributed to our "false predictions" in many cases.

    Now we know that generation is strictly the annointed and the remnant that live today. That it applies strictly to that group. How? Because when Jesus said it, every Christian alive had the hope of the heavenly reward, since it was open to 144,000. That recruitment, so to speak continued throughout the ages, but was obviously tremendously slowed, because true worship was trampled upon, once the Apostles died off. We do not know how many were of the Annointed exactly in Jesus day, but fair to say thousands.

    When true worship was restored, in our time, everyone thought they had the heavenly hope. Until the numbers grew past 144k. Once that happened, a lot in the faith really prayed on what their calling was, and the number of annointed dropped drastically since. As with new light, comes new adjustments. A lot more started focusing on living forever on earth. Jehovah will let you know if you are going to heaven. It will be clear. today, we have just a few thousand who actually partake in eating the emblems. The bread, and drinking the wine. These people are very old. If it is true that some of the remnant will be alive to see the end, as Jesus said they would, then it has got to be close. Each year, they die off. And again, they are OOOOOLLLLDDDD!!! I don't mean 70. I mean OLD! On top of that, the world HATES religion. The Governments are making more and more subtle moves, removing it's power. It will happen. It's a matter of when. It will be shortly.



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Wait, it makes sense that an all-knowing, all powerful, all-seeing, all loving being is going to kill 99% of his favorite creation to prove that he was right. And these dead people are somehow suppossed to learn a lesson or something. How are they suppossed to learn a lesson if they're dead?

    For a brief second they realize they were being decieved by another invisible creature that the invisible all-knowing being created and then they're dead. What is the f*cking point?

    And the only people that are saved are the ones that were right all along, so what do they have to learn? Nothing, they've been living the right way from the beginning. What's the f*cking point?

    Sounds like some real petty, egomaniacal, cruel, sadistic sh*t to me
    No. He is going to rid the world of Unrighteousness, and wickedness, so that Those who love Righteousness, can live in peace, as God intended. You can call that petty if you wish, your right. But for those who hate what this world is, and this world, right now is plain disgusting, let's call it what it is, it's a good thing. There is no love, no peace, stress, greed, immorality. I'm sorry, that is just bad. Everyone will say that it is bad, and we all agree that if these things were not so, humanity will be better off, yet people complain when God says he is actually going to do JUST THAT! Rid humanity of it's ills! Sheesh, talk about unappreciative.



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    It's the equivalent of telling your child not to eat any candy, then placing candy all over the house, and when your child ate some candy, you shoot him in the head, even though you knew ahead of time he would eat the candy anyway. Yeah, makes perfect sense. WHAT A SICK MOTHERF*CKER!! SMH.
    This analogy is not accurate.

    God gives us his written word, to help us AVOID the pitfalls of Satan's system. He tells his people to be in the world, but not of it! Therefore, there is no candy placed all over the house, if you're in God's house! But there is a lotta Candy in the God of this system's house



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Why does god have to wait to get to the point where we live the way he wanted? He's god. He can do anything. This seems to hint that god doesn't want what he created? He is unhappy with us? How could a PERFECT, ALL-KNOWING, ALL-SEEING being not be happy with something HE CREATED? That does't make any sense. He created it!! If he can see in the future, is all-knowing and all-seeing, how the f*ck could he make something that he didn't know he was going to be unhappy with. It shows imperfection, if anything.

    And why the f*ck would an all-knowing, all-seeing, perfect being that can see into the future create Satan?!? He would have known Adam was going to sin before he even created satan. HE'S ALL-KNOWING!!!
    Because we are not robots. If he wanted that, he would have made them. But just because he is hurt that we choose to leave him, should not be a strike against him being God. Why would he not want us to love him? Would it not disappoint you if you did all you could for your kids, and they showed no love or appreciation for your efforts in raising them? God being all seeing, knowing, is IRRELEVANT when it comes to free moral agents he made, with the ability to choose to love or not.

    And maybe he did see that this would happen. And if he did, you know what that shows about God? HIS LOVE! Because he saw that he would be hurt by the very thing he created out of love, and made them anyways for the ones who choose to love him!!!!!! Then, to resuce us, he sends the closest being to him in existence, His only creation he ever made alone, to die for us! Like I said dude, you're evidently extremely book smart, but jeez, common sense is lacking.

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    So why go through all this to prove what he already knows? That his creation cannot do what he wants. He would have known this from the moment he created anything, even before he created anything. He already would have known. But he goes through with it anyway. .
    Are you lost? They are called his witnesses because they showed with their actions that they choose to love God. Just because some chose the other way does not mean God failed. Those who chose wrong, failed. Sorry. You are wrong. I know you hate that, but you are.

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Meanwhile thousands of years of suffering, billions of deaths later he proves to the people that already know, and he already knows, what he wants, which the good people already know and he knows. Yet, the people that don't know, will not know because they will be killed.

    Why the f*ck would a PERFECT, ALL-KNOWING, ALL-SEEING being prove to himself what he WOULD ALREADY KNOW?!?

    I'm sorry, none of that makes any sense or follows any sort of logic. I can't believe you actually tell yourself this. SMH.

    I'll stick with the facts. Thanks.
    Actually, most people come from out of the world to the truth. So a lot of them did not already know. And he is not proving to himself anything. He is proving to his witnesses. That is why he allows satan to demean him. So that once and for all, this issue can be settled, and never happen again. A true, one and done. Sorry you don't get it. Should be easy with your superior intelligence.
    Last edited by Knicks4lyfe; Jan 23, 2011 at 19:36.

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