what does the bible really teach?

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
Mat28;18
And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: ?All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19
Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20
teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.?

Is it fair to say Jesus is instructing those who listen to him to teach others how to follow him, by observing God's commandments(rules)? And if they did that, he would be with them even til the time of the end?(I.e they would be God'people)? I think even ther most pessimistic individual would agree thats the gist of these verses. Do you agree/disagree?

Mat 6:9
?YOU must pray, then, this way:
??Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. 10
Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.

Is its safe to say by this model prayer, that the sanctification of Jehovah's name should hold the most weight of a servant of God, according to Jesus? Is it fair to say that Jesus thinks his followers should pray for the Kingdom of God to come, which would rid the earth of wickedness,ushering a new order of righteousness? Is it fair to think if jesus told his followers to pray for these things, he prayed for them too?

Knicks4Lyfe, do you realize how much this religious dogma is limiting to you? You're not open to any other information. Your mind is a closed book.

I think Metro has said what LJ, me and ABCD, have tried to tell you, in a nutshell. Your questions, biblical citations, etc., are self-limiting and exclusionary of others.

Your biblical quotes are based on your doctrine of salvation by works and the use of the name Jehovah, which is an anglicized version of YHWH, not even the name itself. I'm not interested in arguing rules, or the points that help JW's think they're the only ones right about God or are the true Christians/true religion.

Jesus regularly broke rules, for the sake of people. And JW's risk one another's lives for the sake of a non-biblical rule on blood transfusions.

I'm riding with Jesus: divine grace saving all beings and the kingdom of God being within us.

You should come along.
 
I think Metro has said what LJ, me and ABCD, have tried to tell you, in a nutshell. Your questions, biblical citations, etc., are self-limiting and exclusionary of others.

Your biblical quotes are based on your doctrine of salvation by works and the use of the name Jehovah, which is an anglicized version of YHWH, not even the name itself. I'm not interested in arguing rules, or the points that help JW's think they're the only ones right about God or are the true Christians/true religion.

Jesus regularly broke rules, for the sake of people. And JW's risk one another's lives for the sake of a non-biblical rule on blood transfusions.

I'm riding with Jesus: divine grace saving all beings and the kingdom of God being within us.

You should come along.
So what it's my religious doctrine, apparently, the Kingdom being within you is part of yours. Evolution is LJ's and so forth and so on.


Question, if God's Kingdom is within you, how do you plan on crushing all Governments, and lasting indefinately? As spoken of here?

Dan 2:44
“And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;

And here, jesus words on this Kingdom
Mat 6:10 10
Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.

It appears to me that God's kIngdom is more likely an actual government, rather than something that dwells inside of people. How can one set up a Kingdom inside of them? What?
why would Jesus tell us to pray for God's kingdom to come, if it's already inside of his disciples?

Now, JW have made this matter pretty easy to understand for me. God's Kingdom is a real government, with Jesus as God's chosen King. Since it's the kingdom of the heavens, it obviously cannot be passed on to any humans, because we can't go to heaven. Jesus cannot die, which helps that belief, being it says it will be an indefinately lasting kingdom.

What's your take?
 
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Also, Jesus never broke rules, of he did, he would have been considered a sinner. The overview of the Mosaic law is love. No one exhibited that more readily than Jesus.
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
So what it's my religious doctrine, apparently, the Kingdom being within you is part of yours. Evolution is LJ's and so forth and so on.


Question, if God's Kingdom is within you, how do you plan on crushing all Governments, and lasting indefinately? As spoken of here?

Dan 2:44
?And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;

And here, jesus words on this Kingdom
Mat 6:10 10
Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.

It appears to me that God's kIngdom is more likely an actual government, rather than something that dwells inside of people. How can one set up a Kingdom inside of them? What?
why would Jesus tell us to pray for God's kingdom to come, if it's already inside of his disciples?

Now, JW have made this matter pretty easy to understand for me. God's Kingdom is a real government, with Jesus as God's chosen King. Since it's the kingdom of the heavens, it obviously cannot be passed on to any humans, because we can't go to heaven. Jesus cannot die, which helps that belief, being it says it will be an indefinately lasting kingdom.

What's your take?

Luke 17:

"Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, 'The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed,21 nor will people say, ?Here it is,? or ?There it is,? because the kingdom of God is in your midst.'"

The divine would not equate its kingdom with human conceptions and creations. It has none of the motivations, interests, etc., that plague mankind. So... no, I don't think it's a physical kingdom that is spoken of.

Rather, an inner kingdom, spread through the flowering, and teaching, of real love, peace and self-denial, as well as a rejection of worldliness, is the emergence of the real kingdom, within men. This is so for all spiritual people, regardless of the book they use, as long as the way is laid out for them, therein. The gospels and epistles, amongst other books, certainly lay out the way.

And that which makes sense is not necessarily true. As Jesus says, a good tree is known by its fruits. And the goodness of "fruits" are not known by human measure, by the superficially apparent. Rather, it is known by the inner/outer kingdom Jesus and the other great teachers speak of.

Spirituality is not about hanging on, for a promise's sake. Rather, it is about working tirelessly, until one tangibly finds the immutable love and peace Jesus and his apostles have spoken of.
 
Luke 17:

"Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, 'The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed,21 nor will people say, ?Here it is,? or ?There it is,? because the kingdom of God is in your midst.'"

The divine would not equate its kingdom with human conceptions and creations. It has none of the motivations, interests, etc., that plague mankind. So... no, I don't think it's a physical kingdom that is spoken of.

Rather, an inner kingdom, spread through the flowering, and teaching, of real love, peace and self-denial, as well as a rejection of worldliness, is the emergence of the real kingdom, within men. This is so for all spiritual people, regardless of the book they use, as long as the way is laid out for them, therein. The gospels and epistles, amongst other books, certainly lay out the way.

And that which makes sense is not necessarily true. As Jesus says, a good tree is known by its fruits. And the goodness of "fruits" are not known by human measure, by the superficially apparent. Rather, it is known by the inner/outer kingdom Jesus and the other great teachers speak of.

Spirituality is not about hanging on, for a promise's sake. Rather, it is about working tirelessly, until one tangibly finds the immutable love and peace Jesus and his apostles have spoken of.
Now, you're speaking my language :)

While I respect your vp, one thing I think you are missing is the fact jesus said it cannot be observed, 1) and being on your midst 2)

Since the Kingdom of God is in heaven, Jesus was right when he said it cannot be observed. We cannot see heaven to observe the actual kingdom.

So what does he mean when he says in your midst? He as God's chosen King, was already in thier midst, and they didn't recognize. Something being within you, abds something within your midst, are different, correct?
 
When Will God?s Kingdom Come?


?LORD, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?? (Acts 1:6) The apostles were eager to know when Jesus would establish his Kingdom. Today, some 2,000 years later, people are still eager to know: When will God?s Kingdom come?
Since Jesus made the Kingdom the theme of his preaching, you might expect that he discussed this question. And indeed he did! He spoke extensively about a marked period of time that he called his ?presence.? (Matthew 24:37) That presence is closely tied to the establishment of the Messianic Kingdom. What is this presence? Let us consider four truths the Bible reveals about the presence of Christ.

1. Christ?s presence would begin a long time after his death. Jesus gave an illustration in which he likened himself to a man who ?traveled to a distant land to secure kingly power,? or to ?secure a kingdom.? (Luke 19:12; footnote) How was that prophetic illustration fulfilled? Well, Jesus died and was resurrected; then he traveled to the ?distant land,? that is, heaven. As Jesus foretold in a similar illustration, his return in kingly power would come only ?after a long time.??Matthew 25:19.

Some years after Jesus ascended to heaven, the apostle Paul wrote: ?This man [Jesus] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet.? (Hebrews 10:12,*13) So a lengthy period of waiting followed Jesus? arrival in heaven. The wait finally ended when Jehovah God made his Son the King of the long-promised Messianic Kingdom. That was when Christ?s presence began. Would humans on earth see this momentous event?

2. The presence is invisible to human eyes. Remember, Jesus discussed the sign of his presence. (Matthew 24:3) If his presence were visible to human eyes, would a sign be needed? To illustrate: Imagine that you are traveling to see the ocean. You may see road signs directing you along the way, but once you are at the shore, standing at the water?s edge with the vast expanse of water stretching out to the horizon, would you expect to see a sign with a big arrow pointing ahead, emblazoned with the word ?Ocean?? Of course not! Why have a sign to point out what you can easily identify with your eyes?
Jesus described the sign of his presence, not to point out something that humans could see with their eyes, but to help them discern something that would occur in heaven. Thus, Jesus said: ?The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness.? (Luke 17:20) How, then, would the sign show those on earth that Christ?s presence had begun?

3. Jesus? presence would be marked by a time of profound troubles here on earth. Jesus said that his presence as King in heaven would be marked on earth by wars, famines, earthquakes, pestilences, and lawlessness. (Matthew 24:7-12; Luke 21:10,*11) What would cause all this misery? The Bible explains that Satan, ?the ruler of this world,? is full of rage because he knows that his time is very short now that Christ?s presence as King has begun. (John 12:31; Revelation 12:9,*12) Such visible evidence of Satan?s rage and of Christ?s presence has been abundant in our time. Especially since 1914, a year that historians acknowledge was a turning point, has this evidence appeared on an unprecedented and global scale.
All of that may sound like bad news, but it is not. It means that the Messianic Kingdom is ruling now in heaven. Very soon, that government will exercise its rule right here over all the earth. How, though, would people know about that Kingdom in order to accept its rule and become its subjects?
The bad news we hear every day proves that good things are coming soon

4. Jesus? presence is marked by a global preaching work. Jesus said that his presence would be like ?the days of Noah.?* (Matthew 24:37-39) Noah was more than an ark builder; he was also ?a preacher of righteousness.? (2*Peter 2:5) Noah warned people that a judgment from God was on its way. Jesus said that his followers on earth would be doing something similar during his presence. He prophesied: ?This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.??Matthew 24:14.

As we saw in the preceding article, God?s Kingdom will destroy all the governments of this world. The preaching work alerts people that this heavenly government is about to act, giving all an opportunity to escape the coming destruction and become subjects of that Kingdom. The key question, then, is, How will you respond?

Will God?s Kingdom Mean Good News for You?
The message that Jesus preached was one of incomparable hope. After the rebellion in Eden thousands of years ago, Jehovah God purposed to form a government that would set matters right, returning faithful humans to the condition that God had in mind for them from the start?life eternal in a paradise here on earth. What could be more thrilling than the knowledge that this long-promised government is ruling right now in heaven? It is not some remote, abstract concept but a living reality!
Now, God?s appointed King is ruling in the midst of his enemies. (Psalm 110:2) In this corrupt world alienated from God, the Messiah is fulfilling his Father?s desire to search out all who want to come to know God as he really is and to worship him ?with spirit and truth.? (John 4:24) The hope of living forever under the rule of God?s Kingdom is available to people of all races, ages, and social backgrounds. (Acts 10:34,*35) We urge you to take hold of the marvelous opportunity before you. Learn about God?s Kingdom now, so that you can enjoy living under its righteous rule forever!?1*John 2:17.
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
The translation I used, "the new international version," has a footnote: c. Luke 17:21 Or is within you. The King James Version reads,
  • "21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you," with no footnote.
Most translations use "within you" in the main text. When one considers the entire theme of the gospels and epistles, it is clear that Jesus is speaking of inner transformation, fruits, etc. This inner kingdom is proof of Jesus' divine state for people interested in determining the truth and practicality of his message.

Jesus is called the light of the world, I am sure you know. In Matthew 6 he speaks of the light within.
  • 22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy,[c] your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are unhealthy,[d] your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
I'm sure you agree this is not speaking of disabled, blind people. It is speaking of those who see, and understand, his message and are thus graced with light (Jesus' kingdom and presence) within, versus those who cannot see. Most Christians, from my experience, cannot see: they worry about things of the world, appearance, money, power, etc., and even pray for it.

You asked how an inner kingdom can crush the governments of today. If you believe in literal governments as the enemy of God and man, then maybe a divine comet would have to destroy them.

However, if you believe, as written in Ephesians 2, that we are both "made alive with Christ" (kingdom is within) and brought to life by the grace of being guided to overcome evil thoughts and behaviors (the inner opposition to the kingdom), the worldly "governments," represented by greed, hate, etc., are thus destroyed in us (which is where they come from) and love and Christ are made alive with us (the kingdom of God)
  • "3 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved."
  • "7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up. [grace]"
And so... although you say the world is disgusting, Jesus and the holy spirit say it can be redeemed, one can be made alive and truly happy (not just playing the role of such), now, by surrender to divine grace and, out of a ceasing in faith in worldliness (not hatred of it, but simple lack of interest in it), forsaking of evil thoughts and behaviors.

I think some Christian groups tell their followers, because of clergy's general lack of skill and true connection to God, that the kingdom is some place that is found by waiting for Armageddon. This is easy and keeps some quiet and full of rationalizations as to why they do not currently feel the happiness and peace promised.

The truth is that a bunch of bitter, angry, unchanged people going into a physical kingdom makes no sense. It is love and grace [received by losing interest in the world] that will save and change them, i.e., bring them the kingdom that no one need wait for, now.

As for Jesus not breaking commandments:
  • 21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment."
  • 38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h]39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
  • 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."
  • 4 and [they] said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him7... When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”
The scriptures Jesus refers to, over and over, are found in the old testament and call for blood vengeance, talk about exclusively loving your neighbor, "those among you," etc. He rejected these, so, Jesus was clearly not attached to these rules but to love and service.

PEACE.
 
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Just good last post,

The context of mat 6 seems to suggest a seeking of God's kingdom. Jesus told us to pray that it comes in verse 9.
And in verses 33, 34;
?Keep on, then, seeking first the kingdom and his righteousness, and all these [other] things will be added to YOU. 34
So, never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Sufficient for each day is its own badness.

Verse 22 that you quoted concerning the lamp of the eye, has more to do with keeping one's life simple, focused on storing up treasures in heaven, with God, rather then trying to get rich on earth. Take these surrounding verses:

19
?Stop storing up for yourselves treasures upon the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break in and steal. 20
Rather, store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Then comes 22. After:24
?No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. YOU cannot slave for God and for Riches.

Then he goes on to talk abt God taking care of the birds, making sure they eat everyday, how much more would he take care if those seeking him first, rather than those being overly anxious abt things they need, or want in life, which would be the opposite of keeping one's eye simply focused on God.

And you are also failing to realize the orginal purpose God, which was to have mankind live in peace on earth, in worship of him. God setting up a Kingdom in heaven, that people proclaim, harmonizes with his grand purpose, perfectly.

And what of Jesus promises to his apostles that they would rule with him as kings over the earth? Why would he say such things if this Kingdom was not going to be a reality?

John 14:2In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told YOU, because I am going my way to prepare a place for YOU. 3
Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for YOU, I am coming again and will receive YOU home to myself, that where I am YOU also may be.

That's obviously heaven.

Rev 5:10Revelation 5:10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.?

Speaking of Jesus selecting his disciples to rule with him over earth.

Rev 20Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:6,5
6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

2 Corinthians 4:14 knowing that he who raised Jesus up will raise us up also together with Jesus and will present us together with <span class="smallcaps">YOU</span>.

RevRevelation 14:1,2,3
1 And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.
2 And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps.
3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.

The evidence is overwhelming, the bible teaches God's kingdom is an actual government, that will rule over the earth.
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
Well, I respectfully disagree with your (and the WTS's) interpretation of scripture, like you disagree with mine. That's fine.

I think the difference between us is that I am more interested in the mystical aspects of the bible: the teachings on being brought to life (spiritually), the inner death of we who live in transgressions, divine grace, bearing the cross daily (i.e., suffering willingly), unconditional love, etc. If I'm not mistaken, you're more interested in the end of the world and doing what you feel you must to be saved [at that time], which was Russell's focus.

I'm also not a member of any religion or sect, which means I have no duty to consider the legalistic aspects, if any, of Christianity or any other religion, though I appreciate many of its pure spiritual (not rules-based) teachings or interpretations.

Here is an excerpt from The Imitation of Christ, which I hope you will read, though I have had Witness friends make a big deal about reading any spiritual writings not from the WT. It goes into the mystical aspect of Christianity that interests me, if you'd like to know the type of books it comes from.
  • The Eighth Chapter: The Imitation of Christ, by Thomas a Kempis
THE INTIMATE FRIENDSHIP OF JESUS
  • "WHEN Jesus is near, all is well and nothing seems difficult. When He is absent, all is hard. When Jesus does not speak within, all other comfort is empty, but if He says only a word, it brings great consolation. Did not Mary Magdalen rise at once from her weeping when Martha said to her: "The Master is come, and calleth for thee"?[13] Happy is the hour when Jesus calls one from tears to joy of spirit. How dry and hard you are without Jesus! How foolish and vain if you desire anything but Him! Is it not a greater loss than losing the whole world? For what, without Jesus, can the world give you? Life without Him is a relentless hell, but living with Him is a sweet paradise. If Jesus be with you, no enemy can harm you. He who finds Jesus finds a rare treasure, indeed, a good above every good, whereas he who loses Him loses more than the whole world. The man who lives without Jesus is the poorest of the poor, whereas no one is so rich as the man who lives in His grace."
PEACE
 
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metrocard

Legend
Don't get me wrong.

The Bible has a LOT of great ideas on life itself and they should be utilized in a positive way for humanity.

But to close the BOOK on it and expect people to only follow and "obey" that book, but not be allowed to challenge those ideas or open new information that is helpful to humanity and the progression and advancement of mandkind is just against nature. IMO.

If the bible was open to challenge, discussion and being proven wrong, then I would embrace it purely because I feel thats what it should be and they shouldnt take OFFENSE to that.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SAYING.

"I don't know".

I am not a genius or the smartest guy in the world, I don't want to be. I rather continue to search for knowledge and keep my mind unlimited for information. It may not be the SAFEST feeling because I know people like to feel SAFE and when something new is presented you feel vunerlable. I see some people use things like religion, sports, political parties as social groups for safety and feel like they belong somewhere.

I don't blame them. We live in a scary world and thats the OUTCOME of this scary environment.
 
Chapter 7

Real Hope for Your Loved Ones Who Have Died

How do we know that the resurrection will really happen?
How does Jehovah feel about resurrecting the dead?
Who will be resurrected?

IMAGINE that you are running away from a vicious enemy. He is much stronger and faster than you are. You know that he is merciless because you have seen him kill some of your friends. No matter how hard you try to outrun him, he keeps getting closer. There seems to be no hope. Suddenly, though, a rescuer appears at your side. He is far more powerful than your enemy, and he promises to help you. How relieved that makes you feel!

2 In a sense, you are being pursued by such an enemy. All of us are. As we learned in the preceding chapter, the Bible calls death an enemy. None of us can outrun it or fight it off. Most of us have seen this enemy claim the lives of people dear to us. But Jehovah is far more powerful than death. He is the loving Rescuer who has already shown that he can defeat this enemy. And he promises to destroy this enemy, death, once and for all. The Bible teaches: ?As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.? (1*Corinthians 15:26) That is good news!

3 Let us take a brief look at how the enemy death affects us when it strikes. Doing this will help us to appreciate something that will make us happy. You see, Jehovah promises that the dead will live again. (Isaiah 26:19) They will be brought back to life. That is the hope of the resurrection.

WHEN A LOVED ONE DIES
4 Have you lost a loved one in death? The pain, the grief, and the feelings of helplessness can seem unbearable. At such times, we need to go to God?s Word for comfort. (2*Corinthians 1:3,*4) The Bible helps us to understand how Jehovah and Jesus feel about death. Jesus, who perfectly reflected his Father, knew the pain of losing someone in death. (John 14:9) When he was in Jerusalem, Jesus used to visit Lazarus and his sisters, Mary and Martha, who lived in the nearby town of Bethany. They became close friends. The Bible says: ?Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.? (John 11:5) As we learned in the preceding chapter, though, Lazarus died.

5 How did Jesus feel about losing his friend? The account tells us that Jesus joined Lazarus? relatives and friends as they grieved over this loss. Seeing them, Jesus was deeply moved. He ?groaned in the spirit and became troubled.? Then, the account says, ?Jesus gave way to tears.? (John 11:33,*35) Did Jesus? grief mean that he had no hope? Not at all. In fact, Jesus knew that something wonderful was about to happen. (John 11:3,*4) Still, he felt the pain and sorrow that death brings.

6 In a way, Jesus? grief is encouraging to us. It teaches us that Jesus and his Father, Jehovah, hate death. But Jehovah God is able to fight and overcome that enemy! Let us see what God enabled Jesus to do.

?LAZARUS, COME ON OUT!?
7 Lazarus had been buried in a cave, and Jesus asked that the stone sealing its entrance be taken away. Martha objected because after four days, Lazarus? body must have begun to decay. (John 11:39) From a human standpoint, what hope was there?

8 The stone was rolled away, and Jesus cried out with a loud voice: ?Lazarus, come on out!? What happened? ?The man that had been dead came out.? (John 11:43,*44) Can you imagine the joy of the people there? Whether Lazarus was their brother, relative, friend, or neighbor, they knew that he had died. Yet, here he was?the same dear man?standing among them again. That must have seemed too good to be true. Many no doubt embraced Lazarus joyfully. What a victory over death!
The resurrection of Lazarus resulted in great joy.?John 11:38-44

9 Jesus did not claim to perform this amazing miracle on his own. In his prayer just before calling out to Lazarus, he made it clear that Jehovah was the Source of the resurrection. (John 11:41,*42) This was not the only time that Jehovah used his power in this way. The resurrection of Lazarus is just one of nine miracles of this kind recorded in God?s Word.* To read and study these accounts is a delight. They teach us that God is not partial, for the resurrected ones include young and old, male and female, Israelite and non-Israelite. And what joy is described in these passages! For example, when Jesus raised a young girl from the dead, her parents ?were beside themselves with great ecstasy.? (Mark 5:42) Yes, Jehovah had given them a cause for joy that they would never forget.

10 Of course, those resurrected by Jesus eventually died again. Does this mean that it was pointless to resurrect them? Not at all. These Bible accounts confirm important truths and give us hope.

LEARNING FROM THE RESURRECTION ACCOUNTS
Elijah resurrected a widow?s son.?1*Kings 17:17-24
11 The Bible teaches that the dead ?are conscious of nothing at all.? They are not alive and have no conscious existence anywhere. The account of Lazarus confirms this. Upon returning to life, did Lazarus thrill people with descriptions of heaven? Or did he terrify them with horrible tales about a burning hell? No. The Bible contains no such words from Lazarus. During the four days that he was dead, he had been ?conscious of nothing at all.? (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Lazarus had simply been sleeping in death.?John 11:11.

12 The account of Lazarus also teaches us that the resurrection is a reality, not a mere myth. Jesus raised Lazarus in front of a crowd of eyewitnesses. Even the religious leaders, who hated Jesus, did not deny this miracle. Rather, they said: ?What are we to do, because this man [Jesus] performs many signs?? (John 11:47) Many people went to see the resurrected man. As a result, even more of them put faith in Jesus. They saw in Lazarus living proof that Jesus was sent by God. This evidence was so powerful that some of the hardhearted Jewish religious leaders planned to kill both Jesus and Lazarus.?John 11:53; 12:9-11.
The apostle Peter resurrected the Christian woman Dorcas.?Acts 9:36-42

13 Is it unrealistic to accept the resurrection as a fact? No, for Jesus taught that someday ?all those in the memorial tombs? will be resurrected. (John 5:28) Jehovah is the Creator of all life. Should it be hard to believe that he can re-create life? Of course, much would depend on Jehovah?s memory. Can he remember our dead loved ones? Countless trillions of stars fill the universe, yet God gives the name of each one! (Isaiah 40:26) So Jehovah God can remember our dead loved ones in every detail, and he is ready to restore them to life.

14 How, though, does Jehovah feel about resurrecting the dead? The Bible teaches that he is eager to raise the dead. The faithful man Job asked: ?If an able-bodied man dies can he live again?? Job was speaking about waiting in the grave until the time came for God to remember him. He said to Jehovah: ?You will call, and I myself shall answer you. For the work of your hands you will have a yearning.??Job 14:13-15.

15 Just think! Jehovah actually yearns to bring the dead back to life. Is it not heartwarming to learn that Jehovah feels that way? But what about this future resurrection? Who will be resurrected, and where?

?ALL THOSE IN THE MEMORIAL TOMBS?
16 The Bible?s resurrection accounts teach us much about the resurrection to come. People who were restored to life right here on earth were reunited with their loved ones. The future resurrection will be similar?but much better. As we learned in Chapter*3, God?s purpose is that the whole earth be made into a paradise. So the dead will not be raised to life in a world filled with war, crime, and sickness. They will have an opportunity to live forever on this earth in peaceful and happy conditions.

17 Who will be resurrected? Jesus said that ?all those in the memorial tombs will hear his [Jesus?] voice and come out.? (John 5:28,*29) Similarly, Revelation 20:13 says: ?The sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up those dead in them.? ?Hades? refers to the common grave of mankind. (See the Appendix.) This collective grave will be emptied. All those billions who rest there will live again. The apostle Paul said: ?There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.? (Acts 24:15) What does that mean?

18 ?The righteous? include many of the people we read about in the Bible who lived before Jesus came to the earth. You might think of Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Moses, Ruth, Esther, and many others. Some of these men and women of faith are discussed in the 11th chapter of Hebrews. But ?the righteous? also include Jehovah?s servants who die in our time. Thanks to the resurrection hope, we may be freed from any dread of dying.?Hebrews 2:15.
In Paradise, the dead will rise and be reunited with their loved ones

19 What about all the people who did not serve or obey Jehovah because they never knew about him? These billions of ?unrighteous? ones will not be forgotten. They too will be resurrected and given time to learn about the true God and to serve him. During a period of a thousand years, the dead will be resurrected and given an opportunity to join faithful humans on earth in serving Jehovah. It will be a wonderful time. This period is what the Bible refers to as Judgment Day.#

20 Does this mean that every human who ever lived will be resurrected? No. The Bible says that some of the dead are in ?Gehenna.? (Luke 12:5) Gehenna got its name from a garbage dump located outside of ancient Jerusalem. Dead bodies and garbage were burned there. The dead whose bodies were thrown there were considered by the Jews to be unworthy of a burial and a resurrection. So Gehenna is a fitting symbol of everlasting destruction. Although Jesus will have a role in judging the living and the dead, Jehovah is the final Judge. (Acts 10:42) He will never resurrect those whom he judges to be wicked and unwilling to change.

THE HEAVENLY RESURRECTION
21 The Bible also refers to another kind of resurrection, one to life as a spirit creature in heaven. Only one example of this type of resurrection is recorded in the Bible, that of Jesus Christ.

22 After Jesus was put to death as a human, Jehovah did not allow His faithful Son to remain in the grave. (Psalm 16:10; Acts 13:34,*35) God resurrected Jesus, but not as a human. The apostle Peter explains that Christ was ?put to death in the flesh, but .*.*. made alive in the spirit.? (1*Peter 3:18) This truly was a great miracle. Jesus was alive again as a mighty spirit person! (1*Corinthians 15:3-6) Jesus was the first ever to receive this glorious type of resurrection. (John 3:13) But he would not be the last.

23 Knowing that he would soon return to heaven, Jesus told his faithful followers that he would ?prepare a place? for them there. (John 14:2) Jesus referred to those going to heaven as his ?little flock.? (Luke 12:32) How many are to be in this relatively small group of faithful Christians? According to Revelation 14:1, the apostle John says: ?I saw, and, look! the Lamb [Jesus Christ] standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.?

24 These 144,000 Christians, including Jesus? faithful apostles, are raised to life in heaven. When does their resurrection take place? The apostle Paul wrote that it would occur during the time of Christ?s presence. (1*Corinthians 15:23) As you will learn in Chapter*9, we are now living in that time. So those few remaining ones of the 144,000 who die in our day are instantly resurrected to life in heaven. (1*Corinthians 15:51-55) The vast majority of mankind, however, have the prospect of being resurrected in the future to life in Paradise on earth.

25 Yes, Jehovah really will defeat our enemy death, and it will be gone forever! (Isaiah 25:8) Yet, you may wonder, ?What will those resurrected to heaven do there?? They will form part of a marvelous Kingdom government in heaven. We will learn more about that government in the next chapter.

***The other accounts are found at 1*Kings 17:17-24; 2*Kings 4:32-37; 13:20,*21; Matthew 28:5-7; Luke 7:11-17; 8:40-56; Acts 9:36-42; and 20:7-12.
#**For more information on Judgment Day and the basis for judgment, please see the Appendix.

WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES
The Bible?s resurrection accounts give us a sure hope.?John 11:39-44.
Jehovah is eager to bring the dead back to life.?Job 14:13-15.
All of those in the common grave of mankind will be resurrected.?John 5:28,*29.


Study Questions
1-3. What enemy pursues all of us, and why will considering what the Bible teaches bring us some relief?
4. (a) Why does Jesus? reaction to the death of a loved one teach us about Jehovah?s feelings? (b) Jesus developed what special friendship?
5, 6. (a) How did Jesus respond when he was with Lazarus? grieving family and friends? (b) Why is Jesus? grief encouraging to us?
7, 8. Why might the case of Lazarus have seemed hopeless to human onlookers, but what did Jesus do?
9, 10. (a) How did Jesus reveal the Source of his power to resurrect Lazarus? (b) What are some of the benefits of reading the Bible?s resurrection accounts?
11. How does the account of Lazarus? resurrection help to confirm the truth recorded at Ecclesiastes 9:5?
12. Why can we be sure that the resurrection of Lazarus really happened?
13. What basis do we have for believing that Jehovah really can resurrect the dead?
14, 15. As illustrated by what Job said, how does Jehovah feel about bringing the dead back to life?
16. The dead will be resurrected to live in what kind of conditions?
17. How extensive will the resurrection be?
18. Who are included among ?the righteous? who are to be resurrected, and how may this hope affect you personally?
19. Who are ?the unrighteous,? and what opportunity does Jehovah kindly give them?
20. What is Gehenna, and who go there?
21, 22. (a) What other kind of resurrection is there? (b) Who was the first ever to receive a resurrection to spirit life?
23, 24. Who make up Jesus? ?little flock,? and how many will they number?
25. What will be considered in the next chapter?
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
Don't get me wrong.

The Bible has a LOT of great ideas on life itself and they should be utilized in a positive way for humanity.

But to close the BOOK on it and expect people to only follow and "obey" that book, but not be allowed to challenge those ideas or open new information that is helpful to humanity and the progression and advancement of mandkind is just against nature. IMO.

If the bible was open to challenge, discussion and being proven wrong, then I would embrace it purely because I feel thats what it should be and they shouldnt take OFFENSE to that.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SAYING.

"I don't know".

I am not a genius or the smartest guy in the world, I don't want to be. I rather continue to search for knowledge and keep my mind unlimited for information. It may not be the SAFEST feeling because I know people like to feel SAFE and when something new is presented you feel vunerlable. I see some people use things like religion, sports, political parties as social groups for safety and feel like they belong somewhere.

I don't blame them. We live in a scary world and thats the OUTCOME of this scary environment.

Great post! I definitely felt this was the way in which I was required to read the bible, by Christians who were focused on rules and control and not gaining a spiritual understanding. As such, I washed my hands of Christianity and read many Eastern texts, with a curiosity that is encouraged in the West.

Many years later, I tried the bible again, as a spiritual but not religious person, and found the new testament provides a very beautiful message: unconditional love, peace, and a call for self-sacrifice. Many Christians cannot see this because their hearts and minds are hardened.

When Gandhi, who often quoted the beatitudes (where Jesus says, "Blessed are the peacemakers," etc.), was asked why he quoted Jesus but did not become a follower of his, he said the following... ?Oh, I don?t reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It?s just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ.?

PEACE
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
OG,

Question? With your penchant to abhor rules, is it safe to say that you would have eaten from the tree?

I think that Christians have lost the mystical mindset one must have to understand, and benefit from, the bible. If you do not see that the bible is a document that is more than its words, you will always suffer from your involvement with it.

The story of the tree of knowledge [of good and bad] represents a loss of innocence. It cautions us to treasure what we've been graced with by the universe, rather than allowing our hearts to be claimed by sensual pursuits.

With that understanding, I must say that I, like every other human, am defeated by loss of faith in innocence, unfortunately partaking in this fruit. It takes a long time to completely conquer oneself, in peace and out of spiritual love.

Those who try to conquer themselves, as a result of rules, attempt to do so with violence and anger, and truly do nothing but create an alternative self, when all the great teachers: The Buddha, Christ, Krishna, Mahavir, all called us to deny self.

And so, your question is as applicable to you as it is to me. Probably more so, in your case (as you do not seem to deny self, which testifies against you).
 
I think that Christians have lost the mystical mindset one must have to understand, and benefit from, the bible. If you do not see that the bible is a document that is more than its words, you will always suffer from your involvement with it.

The story of the tree of knowledge [of good and bad] represents a loss of innocence. It cautions us to treasure what we've been graced with by the universe, rather than allowing our hearts to be claimed by sensual pursuits.

With that understanding, I must say that I, like every other human, am defeated by loss of faith in innocence, unfortunately partaking in this fruit. It takes a long time to completely conquer oneself, in peace and out of spiritual love.

Those who try to conquer themselves, as a result of rules, attempt to do so with violence and anger, and truly do nothing but create an alternative self, when all the great teachers: The Buddha, Christ, Krishna, Mahavir, all called us to deny self.

And so, your question is as applicable to you as it is to me. Probably more so, in your case (as you do not seem to deny self, which testifies against you).

What happened at the Garden was blatant disregard for God.


Any JW worth their salt, will tell you serving Jehovah is not about rules at all. In fact, Jehovah's rules as you put them, only benefit mankind if followed. Nothing he ask's of us is for his benefit. So following his rules should be a good thing. You make it appear bad. Wierd.

And I'm not sure what I would have done. I tell myself I probably would have at least waited until God came to speak with me to bring up my concern. But that's easy to say now. When you say "christians follow rules" It makes it appear as if these instructions should in fact be ignored. Is it wise to ignore the counsel of God?

And you never answered. Would you?
 
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OGKnickfan

Enlightened
What happened at the Garden was blatant disregard for God.


Any JW worth their salt, will tell you serving Jehovah is not about rules at all. In fact, Jehovah's rules as you put them, only benefit mankind if followed. Nothing he ask's of us is for his benefit. So following his rules should be a good thing. You make it appear bad. Wierd.

And I'm not sure what I would have done. I tell myself I probably would have at least waited until God came to speak with me to bring up my concern. But that's easy to say now. When you say "christians follow rules" It makes it appear as if these instructions should in fact be ignored. Is it wise to ignore the counsel of God?

And you never answered. Would you?

I think that the "Adam and Eve" story is a metaphor for human loss of innocence, which comes with complete and unconditional happiness, as a result of our pursuit of conditions that we believe will bring us happiness.

It is a story meant to teach us that, by pursuing "happiness," we lose HAPPINESS. We become ambitious for more, thus losing what the divine gives us (i.e., grace).

If I was stripped down to complete passivive-innocence (it not being the result of a concerted effort), only to be misled by "Satan," as Adam was in the story, I would likely have fallen for the temptation.

As for witnesses and rules, I would never make a blanket-statement on witnesses, since I know many of them and have seen they are not all the same. Some witnesses follow witness doctrine "to the letter," in regard to following what I consider excessive rules on association, dress, grooming, etc., as well as thinking.

Some do that for meetings and enjoy spirituality for the sake of the fruit/spirit of the words, not the words themselves (which, if not understood for the sake of their fruits, become a self-limited/imposed prison).
  • 1 Thessalonians Chapter 1:4 For we know, brothers and sisters[b] loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. 6 You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.
  • Colossians 2: 20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.
  • Hebrews 8: 13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
  • Hebrews 8: 7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
  • 2 Corinthians Chapter 3:You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
God Bless.
 
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Blas

Benchwarmer
What happened at the Garden was blatant disregard for God.


Any JW worth their salt, will tell you serving Jehovah is not about rules at all. In fact, Jehovah's rules as you put them, only benefit mankind if followed. Nothing he ask's of us is for his benefit. So following his rules should be a good thing. You make it appear bad. Wierd.

And I'm not sure what I would have done. I tell myself I probably would have at least waited until God came to speak with me to bring up my concern. But that's easy to say now. When you say "christians follow rules" It makes it appear as if these instructions should in fact be ignored. Is it wise to ignore the counsel of God?

And you never answered. Would you?

I think the question you asked OG originally was a loaded question. I think it would have been better to just ask if he would have eaten the fruit. I hope my criticism is not offensive.

The question I would ask is, have you ever or still eat the fruit?

I did and still do.
 
I think the question you asked OG originally was a loaded question. I think it would have been better to just ask if he would have eaten the fruit. I hope my criticism is not offensive.

The question I would ask is, have you ever or still eat the fruit?

I did and still do.
Ultimately, that was my question.

You and I are born sinners. We cannot help but eat, or sin. Adam was perfect, and his intrinsic inclination would have made it as easy to obey God, as sin and imperfection make it easy for us to sin against God.

He just chose to not follow the rule, which meant showing a lack of love.

1 Corinthians 6:9
9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men,

My question is, if a person is trying to please God, is it fair to say that they should avoid the practice of these sins as a rule, out of love for God?

I don't think we should look at what God expects of us as"rules" per say, to add a burden. After all, it only benefits us. However, the gist of it is that these are in fact guidelines, or rules, that God knows we can, and should live by, if we want to be deemed righteous by him.

It is inescapable. We must obey God's guidelines to please him. And I'm not offended, bro, you expressed your opinion. Not mad at all abt that.
 
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Blas

Benchwarmer
We could be saying the same thing here, forgive me if I am misunderstanding.

if a person is trying to please God, is it fair to say that they should avoid the practice of these sins as a rule, out of love for God?

I think to please God, that person should go to God to ask God to help them avoid sin. Then give that glory to God when that person is able to avoid it.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
What this is about, is not forth right lying, as the article states. It can however, be advantageous to be evasive at times. For instance, King David, while on the run from Saul, once had to hide out in enemy territory. He was recognized, and brought before the King, but proceeded to act like a crazy man, though he was not. It saved his life.

Truly serving Jehovah transforms lives. You build a personal relationship with the most high, and you learn to teach others, so they can have that same thing. You get to share in the very same preaching work that Christ jesus started. What's bad about following Jesus Christ? He is quite simply the greatest man to ever live. In a landslide.

JW are the most peaceful religious faction on earth. This is quite simply a well ignored fact by the world. But every other religious faction has people who fight in wars. Fact.

You are clearly brainwashed.

And this is not an insult by any means.

An insult is something that isn't true.

But the fact that you support the Jehovah's Witnesses practice of disowning family members, deaths from not getting blood tranfusions, and "being evasive" when it comes to telling the truth as you stated proves it.

You're defending the Watchtower's support on lying and twisting the truth to others, in order to forward their religion?

"Of course, being truthful does not mean that we are obligated to divulge all information to anyone who asks it of us."
Awake 2000, page 21
http://www.silentlambs.org/Warfarequotes.htm

As for the "peace" in the Jehovah's Witness organization, how do you explain the 1,000s of members who died and continue to die from the Watchtower's no blood policy?

And how do you explain the Governing body admitting to being wrong about their blood policy, when they began allowing its members to receive "fractional blood" as of the year 2000?

Let me guess, "new light?" More propaganda from the Watchtower Society.

Let me guess, you have a bible quote that says "Jehovah does not forgive blood transfusions UNLESS it comes from fractional blood." There's no such quote.

You're guilty of Theocratic Warfare AND contradiction #9.
9. Jehovah's Witnesses are against blood transfusions, but as of 2000 support receiving and donating "fractional blood." Where's the quote where Jehovah says blood is bad, unless it's fractional? I do not know.
http://jehovah.net.au/blood.html
According to the JW's history, they willingly accepted and donated blood until 1945
blood_table.JPG


You believe in a religion that got 99% of its original beliefs from
Ellen G. White's Seventh-Day Adventists and William Miller's Millerite movement and yet claims to be the only true religion.

That in itself is a contradiction, but the governing body teaches its members that anything me, LJ, OG, or any other non-Witness says is "worthless."
"Another example of valueless words is found among the leaders of Christendom. Those claim to speak in God's name, but most of their utterances are not based on the Scriptures, and what they are saying is basically worthless.
The April 15, 2008 study edition of the Watchtower Magazine goes on to say: "Apostates too speak valuless words."

I hope the Watchtower Society improves its treatment of its members, but I doubt that would ever happen.

People in the Jehovah's Witnesses will continue to die from the no blood transfusion policy, continue to put propaganda that shows Catholic priests with Bibles in one hand and guns on the other in their Awake Magazines, and members will continue to have to cover up whatever the Watchtower Society does to prevent "reproach."

P.S.-More peace from the Jehovah's Witnesses.
1. The Watchtower Society covering up hundreds of child molestation cases
AND EVEN DISFELLOWSHIPPING/EX-COMMUNICATING members for reporting their molestations to the police.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XJQvpduyYA

2. According to the Watchtower and Awake Magazines, a woman who is raped but does not "scream" or "resist enough" is a sinner and has committed fornication or adultery.
Watchtower 1964 January 15 pp.63-4 Questions from Readers
"Such Scriptural precedents are applicable to Christians, who are under command, "Flee from fornication." (1 Cor. 6:18) Thus if a Christian woman does not cry out and does not put forth every effort to flee, she would be viewed as consenting to the violation."

"Even in the sad case where a woman is overpowered and raped, her struggle and screaming for help is not in vain. On the contrary, it establishes that she did all she possibly could to resist her attacker..."
Watchtower 2003 February 1

So, if you get raped, you had better scream or strongly resist. Because if you for whatever reason happen to be drugged by the rapist or have a gun or knife to your head, you will be viewed as a sinner AND you will end up like the woman in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZS86DFZBg8

What will the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses say about this? We're imperfect men.
Yet when another religious group does something wrong, the Watchtower Society is the first to post propaganda in their Watchtower and Awake Magazines. IE, the picture of the Catholic priest with a gun in his hand on the January 2011 Awake magazine. But I'm sure priests normally do walk around with guns in their hands, so I guess that isn't propaganda after all.

But contradiction #1 explains this perfectly.
1. The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the "only true Christians" and "the only right religion." They even believe all other non-witnesses and religions are under the power of Satan. Yet, at the same time, when you point out their failed predictions & their child molestation incidents, they claim to not be perfect.

3. A Russian court has fined a woman for rejecting doctors’ advice to allow her five-year-old son to have a blood transfusion. Her decision resulted in the boy’s death in hospital. The verdict is the first such precedent in the country.
http://rt.com/news/court-jehovahs-witness-son/
A JEHOVAH’S Witness who refused a blood transfusion in hospital had a 98pc chance of surviving the bleed that killed herif she had been given the procedure, an inquest was told yesterday.
http://www.independent.ie/national-...t-jehovahrsquos-witness-her-life-1980879.html

"Someone in my sister's congregation (perhaps an elder) found a doctor 3-1/2 hours away who would perform bloodless surgery. Time was crucial and she was in a weakened state already. She went through the surgery with minimal loss of blood, however the following day she had cardiogenic shock and lapsed into a coma and died shortly thereafter.
I don't think I'll ever get over what TURMOIL the J.W. BELIEFS HAVE CAUSED MY FAMILY...AND ESPECIALLY THE ISOLATION MY SISTER HAD FROM US. We didn't isolate her...her beliefs kept her from a relationship with her family for many, many years.
At her memorial service in the congregation where she attended...there was not one J.W. to speak PERSONALLY to any non-witness family member."
http://www.letusreason.org/Testim2.htm

"You cannot allow them to give your child blood![Jehovah's Witness Elders]."

Without further discussion, I asked them to leave, stating that we could not allow our child to die in this way. "If this is the God I serve, I am through with Him[father]." The elders left the hospital upset with me that I would not submit to them. "I hope," one elder even said, "she gets hepatitis from that blood, just to prove that it's bad!"
http://www.exmormon.org/exjw4.htm
 
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