what does the bible really teach?

Chapter *

What is God's Kingdom?

What does the Bible tell us about the Kingdom of God?
What will God?s Kingdom do?
When will the Kingdom cause God?s will to be done on earth?



MILLIONS of people worldwide are familiar with the prayer that many call the Our Father, or the Lord?s Prayer. Both expressions refer to a famous prayer given as a model by Jesus Christ himself. It is a very meaningful prayer, and a consideration of its first three petitions will help you to learn more about what the Bible really teaches.

2 At the beginning of this model prayer, Jesus instructed his hearers: ?You must pray, then, this way: ?Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.?? (Matthew 6:9-13) What is the significance of these three petitions?

3 We have already learned a lot about God?s name, Jehovah. And to some extent we have discussed God?s will?what he has done and will yet do for mankind. To what, though, was Jesus referring when he told us to pray: ?Let your kingdom come?? What is God?s Kingdom? How will its coming sanctify God?s name, or make it holy? And how is the coming of the Kingdom related to the doing of God?s will?
WHAT GOD?S KINGDOM IS

4 God?s Kingdom is a government established by Jehovah God with a King chosen by God. Who is the King of God?s Kingdom? Jesus Christ. Jesus as King is greater than all human rulers and is called ?the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords.? (1 Timothy 6:15) He has the power to do far more good than any human ruler, even the best among them.

5 From where will God?s Kingdom rule? Well, where is Jesus? You will remember learning that he was put to death on a torture stake, and then he was resurrected. Shortly thereafter, he ascended to heaven. (Acts 2:33) Hence, that is where God?s Kingdom is?in heaven. That is why the Bible calls it a ?heavenly kingdom.? (2 Timothy 4:18) Although God?s Kingdom is in heaven, it will rule over the earth.?Revelation 11:15.

6 What makes Jesus an outstanding King? For one thing, he will never die. Comparing Jesus with human kings, the Bible calls him ?the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light.? (1 Timothy 6:16) This means that all the good that Jesus does will last. And he will do great and good things.

7 Consider this Bible prophecy about Jesus: ?Upon him the spirit of Jehovah must settle down, the spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the spirit of counsel and of mightiness, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah; and there will be enjoyment by him in the fear of Jehovah. And he will not judge by any mere appearance to his eyes, nor reprove simply according to the thing heard by his ears. And with righteousness he must judge the lowly ones, and with uprightness he must give reproof in behalf of the meek ones of the earth.? (Isaiah 11:2-4) Those words show that Jesus was to be a righteous and compassionate King over people on earth. Would you want to have a ruler like that?

8 Here is another truth about God?s Kingdom: Jesus will not rule alone. He will have corulers. For example, the apostle Paul told Timothy: ?If we go on enduring, we shall also rule together as kings.? (2 Timothy 2:12) Yes, Paul, Timothy, and other faithful ones who have been selected by God will rule together with Jesus in the heavenly Kingdom. How many will have that privilege?

9 As pointed out in Chapter 7 of this book, the apostle John was given a vision in which he saw ?the Lamb [Jesus Christ] standing upon the Mount Zion [his royal position in heaven], and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.? Who are those 144,000? John himself tells us: ?These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.? (Revelation 14:1, 4) Yes, they are faithful followers of Jesus Christ specially chosen to rule in heaven with him. After being raised out of death to heavenly life, ?they are to rule as kings over the earth? along with Jesus. (Revelation 5:10) Since the days of the apostles, God has been selecting faithful Christians in order to complete the number 144,000.

10 To arrange for Jesus and the 144,000 to rule mankind is very loving. For one thing, Jesus knows what it is like to be a human and to suffer. Paul said that Jesus is ?not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin.? (Hebrews 4:15; 5:8) His corulers too have suffered and endured as humans. In addition, they have struggled with imperfection and coped with all kinds of sickness. Surely, they will understand the problems that humans face!
WHAT WILL GOD?S KINGDOM DO?

11 When Jesus said that his disciples should pray for God?s Kingdom to come, he also said that they should pray for God?s will to be done ?as in heaven, also upon earth.? God is in heaven, and his will has always been done there by the faithful angels. In Chapter 3 of this book, however, we learned that a wicked angel stopped doing God?s will and caused Adam and Eve to sin. In Chapter 10, we will learn more about what the Bible teaches regarding that wicked angel, whom we know as Satan the Devil. Satan and the angelic spirit creatures who chose to follow him?called demons?were allowed to stay in heaven for a while. Hence, not all in heaven were then doing God?s will. That was to change when God?s Kingdom would begin to rule. The newly enthroned King, Jesus Christ, was to wage war on Satan.?Revelation 12:7-9.

12 The following prophetic words describe what would happen: ?I heard a loud voice in heaven say: ?Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers [Satan] has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!?? (Revelation 12:10) Did you notice two very important events described in that Bible verse? First, God?s Kingdom under Jesus Christ begins to rule. Second, Satan is cast out of heaven down to the earth.

13 What have been the results of those two events? Regarding what happened in heaven, we read: ?On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them!? (Revelation 12:12) Yes, the faithful angels in heaven rejoice because, with Satan and his demons gone, everyone in heaven is faithful to Jehovah God. There is complete, unbroken peace and harmony there. God?s will is being done in heaven.

14 What, though, about the earth? The Bible says: ?Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.? (Revelation 12:12) Satan is angry about being cast out of heaven and having just a short time left. In his anger he causes distress, or ?woe,? on earth. We will learn more about that ?woe? in the next chapter. But with that in mind, we could ask, How can the Kingdom cause God?s will to be done on earth?

15 Well, remember what God?s will is for the earth. You learned about it in Chapter 3. In Eden, God showed that his will is for this earth to be a paradise filled with an undying, righteous human race. Satan caused Adam and Eve to sin, and that affected the fulfillment of God?s will for the earth but did not change it. Jehovah still purposes that ?the righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.? (Psalm 37:29) And God?s Kingdom will accomplish that. In what way?
The casting of Satan and his demons out of heaven brought woe to the earth. Such troubles will soon end


16 Consider the prophecy found at Daniel 2:44. There we read: ?In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite.? What does this tell us about God?s Kingdom?

17 First, it tells us that God?s Kingdom was to be established ?in the days of those kings,? or while other kingdoms still existed. Second, it tells us that the Kingdom will last forever. It will not be conquered and be replaced by some other government. Third, we see that there will be war between God?s Kingdom and the kingdoms of this world. God?s Kingdom will be victorious. In the end, it will be the only government over mankind. Then humans will enjoy the best rulership they have ever known.

18 The Bible has much to say about that final war between God?s Kingdom and the governments of this world. For example, it teaches that as the end approaches, wicked spirits will spread lies to deceive ?the kings of the entire inhabited earth.? For what purpose? ?To gather them [the kings] together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.? The kings of the earth will be gathered together to ?the place that is called in Hebrew Har?Magedon.? (Revelation 16:14, 16) Because of what is said in those two verses, the final conflict between human governments and God?s Kingdom is called the battle of Har?Magedon, or Armageddon.

19 What will God?s Kingdom achieve by means of Armageddon? Think again about what God?s will is for the earth. Jehovah God purposed that the earth be filled with a righteous, perfect human race serving him in Paradise. What prevents that from happening right now? First, we are sinful, and we get sick and die. We learned in Chapter 5, however, that Jesus died for us so that we can live forever. Likely you remember the words recorded in the Gospel of John: ?God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.??John 3:16.

20 Another problem is that many people do wicked things. They lie, cheat, and commit immorality. They do not want to do God?s will. People who do wicked things will be destroyed during God?s war of Armageddon. (Psalm 37:10) Yet another reason why God?s will is not being done on earth is that governments do not encourage people to do it. Many governments have been weak, cruel, or corrupt. The Bible frankly says: ?Man has dominated man to his injury.??Ecclesiastes 8:9.

21 After Armageddon, mankind will be under just one government, God?s Kingdom. That Kingdom will do God?s will and bring wonderful blessings. For example, it will remove Satan and his demons. (Revelation 20:1-3) The power of Jesus? sacrifice will be applied so that faithful humans will no longer get sick and die. Instead, under Kingdom rule they will be able to live forever. (Revelation 22:1-3) The earth will be made into a paradise. Thus the Kingdom will cause God?s will to be done on earth and will sanctify God?s name. What does this mean? It means that eventually under God?s Kingdom everyone alive will honor Jehovah?s name.
WHEN DOES GOD?S KINGDOM ACT?

22 When Jesus told his followers to pray, ?Let your kingdom come,? it was clear that the Kingdom had not come at that time. Did it come when Jesus ascended to heaven? No, because both Peter and Paul said that after Jesus was resurrected, the prophecy at Psalm 110:1 was fulfilled in him: ?The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: ?Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.?? (Acts 2:32-34; Hebrews 10:12, 13) There was a waiting period.
Under Kingdom rule, God?s will is going to be done on earth as it is in heaven


23 For how long? During the 19th century, sincere Bible students calculated that the waiting period would end in 1914. (Regarding this date, see the Appendix.) World events that began in 1914 confirm that the calculation of these sincere Bible students was correct. The fulfillment of Bible prophecy shows that in 1914, Christ became King and God?s heavenly Kingdom began to rule. Hence, we are living in the ?short period of time? that Satan has left. (Revelation 12:12; Psalm 110:2) We can also say with certainty that soon God?s Kingdom will act to cause God?s will to be done on earth. Do you find this to be wonderful news? Do you believe that it is true? The next chapter will help you to see that the Bible really does teach these things.

WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES

  • God?s Kingdom is a heavenly government with Jesus Christ as King, and from among mankind, 144,000 are taken to rule with him.?Revelation 14:1, 4.
  • The Kingdom started to rule in 1914, and since then Satan has been cast out of heaven down to earth.?Revelation 12:9.
  • God?s Kingdom will soon destroy human governments, and the earth will become a paradise.?Revelation 16:14, 16.
Study Questions
1. What famous prayer will now be examined?
2. What were three of the things that Jesus taught his disciples to pray for?
3. What do we need to know about God?s Kingdom?
4. What is God?s Kingdom, and who is its King?
5. From where does God?s Kingdom rule, and over what?
6, 7. What makes Jesus an outstanding King?
8. Who will rule with Jesus?
9. How many will rule with Jesus, and when did God start to choose them?
10. Why is it a loving arrangement for Jesus and the 144,000 to rule over mankind?
11. Why did Jesus say that his disciples should pray for God?s will to be done in heaven?
12. What two important events are described at Revelation 12:10?
13. What has been the result of Satan?s being cast out of heaven?
14. What has happened because Satan has been cast down to the earth?
15. What is God?s will for the earth?
16, 17. What does Daniel 2:44 tell us about God?s Kingdom?
18. What is the name of the final war between God?s Kingdom and the governments of this world?
19, 20. What prevents God?s will from being done on earth right now?
21. How will the Kingdom cause God?s will to be done on earth?
22. Why do we know that God?s Kingdom did not come when Jesus was on earth or immediately after he was resurrected?
23. (a) When did God?s Kingdom begin to rule? (b) What will be discussed in the next chapter
 
You are clearly brainwashed.

And this is not an insult by any means.

An insult is something that isn't true.

But the fact that you support the Jehovah's Witnesses practice of disowning family members, deaths from not getting blood tranfusions, and "being evasive" when it comes to telling the truth as you stated proves it.

You post all of these anti-Jehovah's witnesses posts, but say you studied for years. You learned zero. and that's not an insult by any means. An insult is something that isn't true. And truth is, you learned nothing while studying.

Is it not Jehovah's right to decide how he wants to be worshipped as God? Would anyone argue with you wanting a certain level of respect as the head of your household? That would be a pretty insane train of thought. Yet, you penalize God for how he thinks he should be respected in his house? And JW are the small minded?

It is 10000000000 % God's right to choose an acceptable form of worship. And you are the company you keep. Bad association spoils useful habits. Therefore, if a person decides on their own, to stop serving God acceptably, they have in essence, turned their backs on not only God, but those serving God acceptably. Including their family members. See, you have it backwards my friend. You think that the person who turns their back on God is the victim, when it is in fact the other way around! What Good can come from a servant of God having an ongoing friendship with the enemy of God? This is why their is a disfellowshipping arrangement. To protect the spirituality of those who wish to continue having a loving relationship with God.

Those who make victims out of the ones who leave God's arrangement don't get it. You simply just don't get it. It's over your head. And that's not an insult, it's just the truth.



You're defending the Watchtower's support on lying and twisting the truth to others, in order to forward their religion?

"Of course, being truthful does not mean that we are obligated to divulge all information to anyone who asks it of us."
Awake 2000, page 21
http://www.silentlambs.org/Warfarequotes.htm
Look homie, try as you might, being evasive is not the same as outright lying. If you ask me a question, and I don't want to answer, being evasive is as simple as saying "I'm not talking to you about it." I'm not lying about anything, just not divulging information. Geez, it's an easy concept. And what you have here is a strawman. And that's not an insult, it's the truth.



As for the "peace" in the Jehovah's Witness organization, how do you explain the 1,000s of members who died and continue to die from the Watchtower's no blood policy?

And how do you explain the Governing body admitting to being wrong about their blood policy, when they began allowing its members to receive "fractional blood" as of the year 2000?

Let me guess, "new light?" More propaganda from the Watchtower Society.

Let me guess, you have a bible quote that says "Jehovah does not forgive blood transfusions UNLESS it comes from fractional blood." There's no such quote.
Yes, in a way it is new light. Also new scientific development and learnings. When carrying a baby, some fractions of the moms blood is transfered to the baby. Not all, but some. Therefore the reasoning is that since that is an act of God, why should the organization not then allow blood fractions to it's members if needed? It just simply makes logical sense. It is not as if JW want people to die. This is why this arrangement was opened. And taking fractions, or blood factors is not the same as taking full out plasma. But this arrangement has helped a lot of members to make decisions easier.

This particular issue hit home personally with me, as my youngest son was unknowingly born a hemopheliac. We found out when he was circumsized and they could not stop him from bleeding. I would not allow them to give him a blood transfusion. The dr's had more than enough time to give him the blood fact 9, which he is deficient of. But they lolligagged because factors take more time and work, and a blood transfusion is just easier to give, as it has all of the platelets. So, the dr's decided to spite me, they would wait til my son was purple, and NY State law cites that when in the critical state, the dr has permission to proceed with any procedure deemed necessary to save children (unbeknownst to me at the time)

Yes it would have hurt beyond words if my son would have died. But knowing the first death is just a formality, and me being faithful to God's will at the time, I was 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% sure I would see my son again. Jehovah is just that kind of God. Too bad you didn't give him that chance to show you.

You believe in a religion that got 99% of its original beliefs from
Ellen G. White's Seventh-Day Adventists and William Miller's Millerite movement and yet claims to be the only true religion.
Again, you're lost. We get our beliefs from God's word, the Bible. And we are the only true religion, because we are the only faith that bases their lives around what God actually wants, rather than what we want to choose to give God.
How about you do some real research, and try and find a Christian faith that adheres to the Bible more than JW. Then you would really be doing something! Don't worry, I'll wait! For all your raging banter, you could never succeed in that quest. I promise. But again, I'll wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



That in itself is a contradiction, but the governing body teaches its members that anything me, LJ, OG, or any other non-Witness says is "worthless."
"Another example of valueless words is found among the leaders of Christendom. Those claim to speak in God's name, but most of their utterances are not based on the Scriptures, and what they are saying is basically worthless.
The April 15, 2008 study edition of the Watchtower Magazine goes on to say: "Apostates too speak valuless words."
When concerning the origin of life, worship of God, or true spirituality, if it is not consistent with the will of God, then it is absolutely valueless!

Jehovah simply knows more than You, OG, and LJ. Fault me for listening to the smart guy here. And that's not an insult, an insult is something that is not true.

I hope the Watchtower Society improves its treatment of its members, but I doubt that would ever happen.

People in the Jehovah's Witnesses will continue to die from the no blood transfusion policy, continue to put propaganda that shows Catholic priests with Bibles in one hand and guns on the other in their Awake Magazines, and members will continue to have to cover up whatever the Watchtower Society does to prevent "reproach."
You really think 7 million people would take time from there lives, to preach door to door to a mostly hostile population, if they were being treated poorly by the organization?

I don't understand what you mean by propaganda. That is implying lies. There are no lies about any faith, or war, or any of the sort in the magazines that we put out. I have never encountered a person of another faith who disagreed with what we print about their faith in our books. Other than the fact they disagree with our supposed "philosophy". So I don't get your angle here. You tried it though. *Shrugs*



P.S.-More peace from the Jehovah's Witnesses.
1. The Watchtower Society covering up hundreds of child molestation cases
AND EVEN DISFELLOWSHIPPING/EX-COMMUNICATING members for reporting their molestations to the police.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XJQvpduyYA.
As servants of God, one should hold JW to a higher standard. However, a higher standard falls well short of a perfect standard. Imperfect people do not always handle things the right way, and the organization has admitted many times over that their former preventive measures were not good enough in the past. Now, however, all such cases immediately get reported to the police. Point blank. can't get the past back, all we can do is progress.


2. According to the Watchtower and Awake Magazines, a woman who is raped but does not "scream" or "resist enough" is a sinner and has committed fornication or adultery.
Watchtower 1964 January 15 pp.63-4 Questions from Readers
"Such Scriptural precedents are applicable to Christians, who are under command, "Flee from fornication." (1 Cor. 6:18) Thus if a Christian woman does not cry out and does not put forth every effort to flee, she would be viewed as consenting to the violation."

"Even in the sad case where a woman is overpowered and raped, her struggle and screaming for help is not in vain. On the contrary, it establishes that she did all she possibly could to resist her attacker..."
Watchtower 2003 February 1

So, if you get raped, you had better scream or strongly resist. Because if you for whatever reason happen to be drugged by the rapist or have a gun or knife to your head, you will be viewed as a sinner AND you will end up like the woman in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZS86DFZBg8

What will the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses say about this? We're imperfect men.
Yet when another religious group does something wrong, the Watchtower Society is the first to post propaganda in their Watchtower and Awake Magazines. IE, the picture of the Catholic priest with a gun in his hand on the January 2011 Awake magazine. But I'm sure priests normally do walk around with guns in their hands, so I guess that isn't propaganda after all.

Being overpowered, implies physical struggle, in which in most cases, the natural tendency would be to scream, run, struggle. But if a person sneaks up on a woman gun to her head, of course she cannot scream or try and run. All she has then is prayer. Jehovah will hear the ernest prayers. This is a no win situation either way. And I have never seen an article in any awake that would criticize any faith for a rape.

I never seen a priest with a Gun. Cept movies. However, they do pray for victory in wars. Even against fellow Christian Nations. Christians killing Christians. Nice.


But contradiction #1 explains this perfectly.
1. The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the "only true Christians" and "the only right religion." They even believe all other non-witnesses and religions are under the power of Satan. Yet, at the same time, when you point out their failed predictions & their child molestation incidents, they claim to not be perfect.
Again, you clearly did not learn anything in your studies. Jehovah's witnesses do not claim to be the only true Christians based on vile behavior from other faiths. Anyone can fall victim to sexual desire, drugs, etc. Even the most heinous attacks are forgiveable by God. However a true Christian lives their lives based on God's word. The only faith that actually does this, is JW. And if you disagree, show reason and proof. Otherwise you are just talking out the side of your head.

This thread is abt what the Bible really teaches. I have not seen one Christian on this board actually challenge a biblical belief. Why? Because compared to Jehovah's truths, it will get pummeled. The lie usually does when the truth is revealed.

3. A Russian court has fined a woman for rejecting doctors’ advice to allow her five-year-old son to have a blood transfusion. Her decision resulted in the boy’s death in hospital. The verdict is the first such precedent in the country.
http://rt.com/news/court-jehovahs-witness-son/
A JEHOVAH’S Witness who refused a blood transfusion in hospital had a 98pc chance of surviving the bleed that killed herif she had been given the procedure, an inquest was told yesterday.
http://www.independent.ie/national-...t-jehovahrsquos-witness-her-life-1980879.html
You look at this as her being stupid for letting her son die without the transfusion. Jehovah looks at it as she is being faithful to him, and trusts him to the full, knowing that there will be a resurrection. Jehovah's love and trust is better to recieve than his agnst. Jehovah willing allowed his son to die for us to have the opportunity to live. But he knew he would bring him back. That same hope is what all JWs cling to when faced with these situations. Tough, but very doable. I experienced this personally.

"Someone in my sister's congregation (perhaps an elder) found a doctor 3-1/2 hours away who would perform bloodless surgery. Time was crucial and she was in a weakened state already. She went through the surgery with minimal loss of blood, however the following day she had cardiogenic shock and lapsed into a coma and died shortly thereafter.
I don't think I'll ever get over what TURMOIL the J.W. BELIEFS HAVE CAUSED MY FAMILY...AND ESPECIALLY THE ISOLATION MY SISTER HAD FROM US. We didn't isolate her...her beliefs kept her from a relationship with her family for many, many years.
At her memorial service in the congregation where she attended...there was not one J.W. to speak PERSONALLY to any non-witness family member."
http://www.letusreason.org/Testim2.htm

"You cannot allow them to give your child blood![Jehovah's Witness Elders]."

Without further discussion, I asked them to leave, stating that we could not allow our child to die in this way. "If this is the God I serve, I am through with Him[father]." The elders left the hospital upset with me that I would not submit to them. "I hope," one elder even said, "she gets hepatitis from that blood, just to prove that it's bad!"
http://www.exmormon.org/exjw4.htm

Well that was her choice. the elder was wrong if that is what he said, but that is at best he say, she say. You choose to believe the woman, I know people exaggerate greatly when it comes to JW. I see it everyday. I say it's just sad all around.

What's even worse, is that she thinks she is hurting the Elders. But really it is her relationship with God that is in peril. See, people who don't truly want to know God, cannot personalize him. He cannot be seen, heard, touched, so he feels far off. This is the crutch used when it comes to service of God. But he does show his loving quality over and over. A true servant of God clings to that. A true servant may think to themself "How much do you have to love people in order to send your only begotten son to die for the few who will listen to him?" Which of you is sending your kid to die for those who will ignore him? Don't worry, I'll wait!!!!!!!!!!!

Because of this, a person can draw close to God, though they cannot see, hear or touch him. And this person will try their best to serve him. All others, will not. That is where you are.

Good day.
 
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OGKnickfan

Enlightened
Ultimately, that was my question.

You and I are born sinners. We cannot help but eat, or sin. Adam was perfect, and his intrinsic inclination would have made it as easy to obey God, as sin and imperfection make it easy for us to sin against God.

He just chose to not follow the rule, which meant showing a lack of love.

1 Corinthians 6:9
9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men,

My question is, if a person is trying to please God, is it fair to say that they should avoid the practice of these sins as a rule, out of love for God?

I don't think we should look at what God expects of us as"rules" per say, to add a burden. After all, it only benefits us. However, the gist of it is that these are in fact guidelines, or rules, that God knows we can, and should live by, if we want to be deemed righteous by him.

It is inescapable. We must obey God's guidelines to please him. And I'm not offended, bro, you expressed your opinion. Not mad at all abt that.

The problem I have encountered with many Jehovah's Witnesses' method of thinking is that they conflate God with "the organization." The organization is not, according to scripture, God: Jesus says that he is the way. Additionally, if "Christendom" is apostate, I do not know why the organization uses scripture selected for the bible by the Catholic Church.

Surely, you should have God personally deliver a correct book to your people, if all other spirituality is false.

And, insofar as rules, you never answered my citations of scripture. They clearly state that the letter, ink, rules, etc., come from man and are not the way to communion with the divine, in Christianity.

Like ABCD, my hope is that all religious people, JW's and otherwise, find real spirituality, not these controlling, fear-based gatherings, seen across the world.

Religion must serve God and spiritual people [of all faiths], not organizations or man's desire to control other men. Jesus called organizations to serve men, not the other way around:

John 13

12 When he (Jesus) had finished washing their (the apostles') feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16 Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

EDIT: As for ABCD, he is trying, it is clear to me, to help you and other witnesses view others in a positive light, rather than as being in league with the devil. He also wants you to be healthy, physically and mentally. He has no other reason for posting what he has.
 
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abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
You post all of these anti-Jehovah's witnesses posts, but say you studied for years. You learned zero. and that's not an insult by any means. An insult is something that isn't true. And truth is, you learned nothing while studying.

Uh, let's see.

#1-You dodged all of the facts I presented, and you ignored the Biblical facts OGKnicksfan presented.

#2-Everything I posted was a fact. If it's not a fact, why can't you disprove it?
Why do you dodge all of the questions?

The answer is that Jehovah's Witnesses are instructed to use
Theocratic Warfare(lying) in order to prevent "reproach" in their religion.

You seem to think I have something personal against Jehovah's Witnesses, but yet you cannot present one insult that I said towards Witnesses.

All of the facts I presented are about the Watchtower Society's treatment of its members and the mind control techniques used upon its members by the Governing body.

But since you're taught to believe the Watchtower Society has exclusive access to the "truth", you feel threatened by the actual truth:

"Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." Watchtower, December 1, 1981 p.27

" But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us. Watchtower September 15,1989 p. 23


The purpose of my posts is to inform people of the poor treatment the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses receive at the hands of the
Watchtower Bible & Tract Society/Governing Body.

You seem to exclude a lot of the things your religion teaches and does to its members which is unfair to the public.

Good day.
 
Last edited:

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
You copy and pasted an article from a Watchtower magazine, verbatim. So you didn't really use the Bible's viewpoint.

And considering Jehovah's Witnesses are charged money to order magazines, you're pretty much plagiarizing material from your organization.

To believe that 6.7 billion people are going to be "put to death" and only 7.2 million people will be saved shows a strong lack of humility.

And according to your organization, internet blogs, television, and music is part of Satan and the "system of things" so you aren't even supposed to be posting on this forum, by your organization's standards.

Jehovah's Witnesses aren't even supposed to interact with non-witnesses unless it's for business and school related purposes, and I've seen you post about the Knicks on here, which has nothing to do with business or school.

Jehovah's Witnesses are supposed to be "some of the happiest people" yet you use a lot of sarcasm and bitterness in your replies.

It doesn't seem like you're happy to me.

Translation: the Jehovah's Witnesses believe everyone is going to be put to death except 7.2 million followers and the previous members who passed away.

That is very logical, I know. And It's also very humble to put yourself above 6.7 billion people.

And it's very peaceful to secretly believe everyone is with Satan, while you're handing them a magazine.

You should listen to the things that come out of your mouth.

But since you believe everything that comes from the Watchtower's Governing body aka human beings with suits, that's why you think it makes sense that someone who believes in Jesus and God will get put to death but someone who believes in "Jehovah" will live forever.

Makes a ton of sense. I know.

These videos all show what the Jehovah's Witnesses are taught and what they believe in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiWOkwq_vSo

2:00 to 2:30 sec shows you the anger and superiority Jehovah's Witnesses feel towards those who are not members of their Billion dollar organization, and it shows the mental control its members are under by the governing body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBpPX8Z143E&feature=related

This shows some of their failed prophecies. 2:00 to 4:00 is the main part.

Leviticus 20:27(New World Translation)
"And as for a man or woman in whom proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail. They should pelt them to death with stones. Their own blood is upon them."

The Jehovah's Witnesses have predicted the end of the world on about 8 occasions.

Translation: You could not answer the fact that your organization teaches its members to hate those who are not Jehovah's Witnesses.

Jehovah's Witnesses have taken it upon themselves to play the role of God.

According to the Jehovah's Witnesses, they already know who's going to heaven, who's going to go to paradise, and who's going to be put to death.

In fact, the Jehovah's Witnesses already have an "annointed class" of members who are going to heaven that they selected themselves, name by name.

It's funny because last time I checked, Christians believe God is the one who decides who goes to heaven and who doesn't, not human beings in suits.

Actually, it says those who predict the end of the world will be put to death.

I'm not a Christian, and I don't believe in what the quote says, but according to the New World Translation, Leviticus 20:27(New World Translation)
"And as for a man or woman in whom proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail."

The quote clearly states that a man or woman who acts as a source of prediction will be put to death.

You can deny what the quote says, but it's in the Jehovah's Witness bible.

1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, and 1994 are all years where the Jehovah's Witnesses predicted the end of the world.

Instead of letting God decide when he wanted to end the world, the WatchTower Society decided for him.

I do not hate anyone, but you seem to believe that because I present facts that are supported with links, articles, and Bible quotes that I am attacking you.

I don't take anything that you say personally, because I understand what you're going through.

The Governing body is a billion dollar organization that controls every aspect of every member's life, while believing that everyone is with satan and everyone is going to be destroyed.

In fact, by Jehovah's Witnesses standards, you aren't even supposed to post on here, because internet blogs are part of "Satan and the system of things."

It is a fact that the Jehovah's Witness Organization wants God to kill everyone so that they could then be saved.

The governing body teaches its members to cheer for Armageddon so that then everyone and everything could be destroyed except for the select Witnesses.

This is a video of what happens to under aged 13 year olds who are baptized into the Jehovah's Witnesses and then decide to leave once they become an adult.

The man in this video lost all his family, friends, and even his wife thanks to the Jehovah's Witness Organization.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI910M9Q-xo

1. Thanks for admitting that the Jehovah's Witnesses pass blame on 13 year olds who are forcefully baptized by strict parents and then condemned for leaving the church once they are old enough to decide for themselves.
I'm sure 13 year olds know everything they want in life, so it's perfectly fine to baptize them and expect a life long commitment.

2. You've already proven that the governing body teaches hate, based on your support of parents disowning their children.

3. I don't know if you actually believe the governing body follows the Bible as its main source, but the Governing body holds the Watchtower Magazine as the final word.

In fact, a Jehovah's Witness woman was asked by the Jehovah's Witness leaders if she would choose something in the Watchtower that contradicted the Bible or if she would choose what was in the Bible, and she said she would choose the Bible. As a result, the woman was disfellowshipped.

For those of you who don't know, someone who is disfellowshipped by the JWs lose all their family, friends, spouses, and children.

The Witnesses are to ignore the shunned person and consider them as "dead."

In addition, Jehovah's Witnesses preach that it is impossible to use the Bible alone. That is one of the reasons why they believe all other Christian denominations will be wiped out by God.

In fact, JWs don't even consider Catholics, Baptists, Adventists, etc. as Christian.

Jehovah's Witnesses consider all other denominations and religions as
SATAN WORSHIPERS

But yet you want people to believe the JW organization is kind and humble.

Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp80BMyAxWw&feature=related

P.S.- Jehovah's Witnesses believe every player on the New York Knicks and every non-witness on the KO forum is with Satan and will be vanquished by Jehovah, if they don't convert.

That's just to show you how hateful the governing body teaches its members to be.

1. So according to you, a 13 year old cannot be forced to be baptized by strict Jehovah's Witness parents, because the 13 year old could always choose to separate themselves from their parents and become homeless at age 18.

But not to worry. 85% of Americans hold a High School Diploma or GED, so he should have no problem having to compete with over 300 million Americans for a job.

2. You admitted that the Jehovah's Witnesses believe everyone is under the power of Satan.

And since Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only true religion, that implies they feel all other religions are false and inferior.

And since Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only people who can be saved by God, that implies you believe the other religions are with Satan.

If this wasn't the case, the Witnesses would not state that they are the only true religion.

3. And the fact that you titled this thread "What does the Bible REALLY teach" implies that you feel all other Christians are taught the Bible INCORRECTLY and all other religious groups are also taught faux information.

And the information you posted came from a book published by the Watchtower Society.

It's on sale at Amazon.com.

315%2B49zxCzL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/WHAT-DOES-BIBLE-REALLY-TEACH/dp/B000JRQ3LO

The book received 3 1/2 stars out of 5.

So children who are 8, 10, and 13 years old have to "man up" and "blame themselves" for why they are baptized too early.
Link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/55955/1/Were-you-baptized-too-young

Just like a teenage ex-Witness has to "man up" and "blame herself" for being raped, just like the Jehovah's Witness elders instructed her to do before she was disfellowshipped. And as a parting gift, they instructed her not to pray, because "Jehovah wouldn't answer her prayers."
link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZS86DFZBg8&feature=player_embedded

This is what Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to believe by men in suits aka the governing body in Brooklyn, New York.

You've shown the true colors of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Their love is conditional, because their idea of God believes everyone is with Satan except a select 7.2 million followers.

So when anyone questions the Watchtower, or if God forbid, they join another denomination or no longer believe in the Watchtower, they are disfellowshipped and seen as "spiritually dead."

According to Jehovah's Witnesses, hating people is great.
"The obligation to hate lawlessness also applies to all activity by apostates. Our attitude toward apostates should be that of David, who declared: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies. --"
The Watchtower, July 15, 1992, page 12.

"Like gangrene, apostate reasoning is nothing but quick-spreading spiritual death."
The Watchtower, March 15, 1986, page 15.

"Therefore, resolve in your heart that you will never even touch the poison that apostates want you to sip." --The Watchtower, March 15, 1986, page 20.

Proof that the Watchtower Society believes anyone who uses the Bible alone (Including Jehovah's Witnesses who use the New World Translation alone) is with satan:
"From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude. ... They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home." --The Watchtower, August 15, 1981, page 28-29

It is a fact that most people in your situation ignore anything anyone tells them, because they are trained by the governing body aka men to believe everyone is part of Satan's "system of things."

But this is the hate being taught from your very own magazine.

Top 10 Contradictions of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
10. Jehovah's Witnesses are against abortion, but they support denying babies life saving blood transfusions.
"With you is the source of life.Psalm 36:9(New World Translation)Life, then, is a gift from God."
http://www.watchtower.org/e/200906/article_01.htm
"Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, 20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood."
Acts 15:19-20(New World Translation)
http://www.watchtower.org/e/200608/article_03.htm

9. Jehovah's Witnesses are against blood transfusions, but as of 2000 support receiving and donating "fractional blood." Where's the quote where Jehovah says blood is bad, unless it's fractional? I do not know.
http://jehovah.net.au/blood.html
According to the JW's history, they willingly accepted and donated blood until 1945.
blood_table.JPG


8. Charles Taze Russell, the Watchtower Society, and many members of the Jehovah's Witnesses have made a combined 10 false end of the world predictions: 1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, and 1994, but they claim the "governing body" is the mouthpiece for Jehovah God.

7. The Jehovah's Witnesses(Est. 1881) claim to be "God's channel" yet 90% of their beliefs are the same as the Seventh-Day Adventist's beliefs(Est. 1844).
Ex: SDA's(Est. 1844) believe salvation is through works and faith; JW's(1881) believe the exact same thing. SDA's(Est. 1844) believe Jesus is the archangel Michael; JW's(Est. 1881) believe the exact same thing. SDA's believe holidays are of pagan origin; JW's believe the exact same thing. SDA's believe Hell is not real; JW's believe the same thing. SDA's believe they are the only true Christians; JW's believe the same thing.

6. Jehovah's Witnesses believe everyone outside of their religion is "worldly" and "under the power of Satan" yet they work in Government jobs, attend public school, and eat at fast food restaurants.

5. Jehovah's Witnesses are against Catholicism, yet from 1960 to 1983, the Jehovah's Witnesses Governing Body used a Catholic Spirit Medium(Johannes Greber's) interpretation of the Bible to support their New World Translation.
http://www.seanet.com/~raines/wtgreber.html

4. Jehovah's Witnesses claim they do not support judging others:
"Jesus said that we should not be judging one another."
http://www.watchtower.org/e/jt/article_08.htm
Yet in their April 15, 2008 study edition of their Watchtower Magazine, it says the following: "Another example of valueless words is found among the leaders of Christendom. Those claim to speak in God's name, but most of their utterances are not based on the Scriptures, and what they are saying is basically worthless. In other words, the governing body believes what the other denominations (Catholics, SDA's, Mormons, Baptists, Pentecostals) have to say is worthless.
The April 15, 2008 study edition of the Watchtower Magazine goes on to say: "Apostates too speak valuless words."

3. Jehovah's Witnesses claim you can come and leave the Jehovah's Witnesses as you please, but the governing body disfellowships people from their entire family, friends, spouses, and children if they choose to no longer believe or join another Christian denomination.

2. Most Jehovah's Witnesses will claim they are not brainwashed.
However, the Watchtower Society supports brainwashing.
"A musician who had lived the unreal life on drugs began studying the Bible With Jehovah's Witnesses. His associates ridiculed him, taunting "You are being brainwashed." He aptly[appropriately] replied: The shape our brains are in, they need a good washing."
Watchtower, March 15, 1973 Page 186-187 Paragraph 27

1. The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the "only true Christians" and
"the only right religion." They even believe all other non-witnesses and religions are under the power of Satan. Yet, at the same time, when you point out their failed predictions & their child molestation incidents, they claim to not be perfect.


Most Witnesses are unaware of this, however, the first President of the Jehovah's Witnesses was "William Henry Conley."

Q: Why do Jehovah's Witnesses deny William Henry Conley was their first president?

A: William Henry Conley stopped believing in Russell's teachings, after his failed prophecies in 1874, 1878, and 1881. AND Conley donated money to non-Witness denominations.

That's right, folks. The very first President of the Jehovah's Witnesses chose to no longer believe in the Jehovah's Witness religion, after he had discovered Charles Taze Russell scammed him out of 1,000s of dollars in "donations" that he gave after being told Armageddon would come in 1881. In 1882, Conley stopped handing Russell donations, and his name was mysteriously no longer listed as the first president of the Watchtower.
Yet they are "the only true Christians."

In addition, Conley donated money to Christian denominations that Jehovah's Witnesses of today claim are "false and part of "Christendom."

The Jehovah's Witnesses claim the governing body is "God's Channel." So why does "God's channel" make so many false predictions? 1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, 1994?

Is God lying to the governing body on purpose?

Let me guess, the governing body are imperfect men?

You're guilty of contradiction #1.



Study your religion's history, and you will see that Charles Taze Russell modeled all of his beliefs after the Seventh-Day Adventists.

But the Watchtower Society forbids its members from researching, because the internet is controlled by "Satan." So I doubt you'll do such a thing.

And why is it that Jehovah's Witnesses always mention in their Watchtower publications that they are the only true Christians?

If you're God's chosen people, why do you have to prove that to anyone?

Is it because your organization doubts itself after making 10 failed Armageddon predictions? Possibly.



That's why a woman was asked by the Jehovah's Witnesses if there was something in the Watchtower that contradicted the Bible, would she choose the Magazine or the Bible. She said she'd choose the Bible and got disfellowshipped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp80B...eature=related



You're guilty of contradiction #4.





That's why Witnesses refer to the words of others as "valueless" and "worthless." And they call all non-Witness denominations "apostate Christianity."

Contradiction #4.

P.S.-If Apostates are trying to create their own religions like the JWs claim, what are the names of these new religions?

Why hasn't anyone heard of them?

Did God lie to the governing body and tell him to teach that to his members?

Jehovah's Witnesses are discouraged from reading the Bible for themselves, without the help of a man-made magazine that supposedly comes from Jehovah God, through the governing body.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have a "Theocratic Warfare policy."
Each member of the Jehovah's Witnesses learns the policy at their "Theocratic Ministry School."

The members are trained to lie and withhold information from "outsiders" and people who supposedly aren't "entitled" to the truth.

In other words, every member of the Jehovah's Witnesses
(including Knicks4lyfe) has a right to lie to people, when they knock on people's doors to "preach the good news."

According to the Watchtower, lying "does not harm anyone."

'So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good. Today God's servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God's servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God's Kingdom.' Watchtower May 1, 1957 Page 285 - 286.
http://thejehovahswitnesses.org/theocratic-warfare-quotes.php

'We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive. ... As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies.' Watchtower June 1, 1960, pages 351-352."
http://thejehovahswitnesses.org/theocratic-warfare-quotes.php

'While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. ... Evidently the course of Abraham, Isaac, Rahab, and Elisha in misdirecting or in withholding full facts from nonworshipers of Jehovah must be viewed in the same light.
"Insight On The Scriptures", Volume 2, 1988 pages 244-245.
http://thejehovahswitnesses.org/theocratic-warfare-quotes.php

http://www.amazon.com/Insight-Scriptures-Vol-Jehovah-Zuzim-Index/dp/B000AXW7IA

You are clearly brainwashed.

And this is not an insult by any means.

An insult is something that isn't true.

But the fact that you support the Jehovah's Witnesses practice of disowning family members, deaths from not getting blood tranfusions, and "being evasive" when it comes to telling the truth as you stated proves it.

You're defending the Watchtower's support on lying and twisting the truth to others, in order to forward their religion?

"Of course, being truthful does not mean that we are obligated to divulge all information to anyone who asks it of us."
Awake 2000, page 21
http://www.silentlambs.org/Warfarequotes.htm

As for the "peace" in the Jehovah's Witness organization, how do you explain the 1,000s of members who died and continue to die from the Watchtower's no blood policy?

And how do you explain the Governing body admitting to being wrong about their blood policy, when they began allowing its members to receive "fractional blood" as of the year 2000?

Let me guess, "new light?" More propaganda from the Watchtower Society.

Let me guess, you have a bible quote that says "Jehovah does not forgive blood transfusions UNLESS it comes from fractional blood." There's no such quote.

You're guilty of Theocratic Warfare AND contradiction #9.
9. Jehovah's Witnesses are against blood transfusions, but as of 2000 support receiving and donating "fractional blood." Where's the quote where Jehovah says blood is bad, unless it's fractional? I do not know.
http://jehovah.net.au/blood.html
According to the JW's history, they willingly accepted and donated blood until 1945
blood_table.JPG


You believe in a religion that got 99% of its original beliefs from
Ellen G. White's Seventh-Day Adventists and William Miller's Millerite movement and yet claims to be the only true religion.

That in itself is a contradiction, but the governing body teaches its members that anything me, LJ, OG, or any other non-Witness says is "worthless."
"Another example of valueless words is found among the leaders of Christendom. Those claim to speak in God's name, but most of their utterances are not based on the Scriptures, and what they are saying is basically worthless.
The April 15, 2008 study edition of the Watchtower Magazine goes on to say: "Apostates too speak valuless words."

I hope the Watchtower Society improves its treatment of its members, but I doubt that would ever happen.

People in the Jehovah's Witnesses will continue to die from the no blood transfusion policy, continue to put propaganda that shows Catholic priests with Bibles in one hand and guns on the other in their Awake Magazines, and members will continue to have to cover up whatever the Watchtower Society does to prevent "reproach."

P.S.-More peace from the Jehovah's Witnesses.
1. The Watchtower Society covering up hundreds of child molestation cases
AND EVEN DISFELLOWSHIPPING/EX-COMMUNICATING members for reporting their molestations to the police.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XJQvpduyYA

2. According to the Watchtower and Awake Magazines, a woman who is raped but does not "scream" or "resist enough" is a sinner and has committed fornication or adultery.
Watchtower 1964 January 15 pp.63-4 Questions from Readers
"Such Scriptural precedents are applicable to Christians, who are under command, "Flee from fornication." (1 Cor. 6:18) Thus if a Christian woman does not cry out and does not put forth every effort to flee, she would be viewed as consenting to the violation."

"Even in the sad case where a woman is overpowered and raped, her struggle and screaming for help is not in vain. On the contrary, it establishes that she did all she possibly could to resist her attacker..."
Watchtower 2003 February 1

So, if you get raped, you had better scream or strongly resist. Because if you for whatever reason happen to be drugged by the rapist or have a gun or knife to your head, you will be viewed as a sinner AND you will end up like the woman in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZS86DFZBg8

What will the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses say about this? We're imperfect men.
Yet when another religious group does something wrong, the Watchtower Society is the first to post propaganda in their Watchtower and Awake Magazines. IE, the picture of the Catholic priest with a gun in his hand on the January 2011 Awake magazine. But I'm sure priests normally do walk around with guns in their hands, so I guess that isn't propaganda after all.

But contradiction #1 explains this perfectly.
1. The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the "only true Christians" and "the only right religion." They even believe all other non-witnesses and religions are under the power of Satan. Yet, at the same time, when you point out their failed predictions & their child molestation incidents, they claim to not be perfect.

3. A Russian court has fined a woman for rejecting doctors’ advice to allow her five-year-old son to have a blood transfusion. Her decision resulted in the boy’s death in hospital. The verdict is the first such precedent in the country.
http://rt.com/news/court-jehovahs-witness-son/
A JEHOVAH’S Witness who refused a blood transfusion in hospital had a 98pc chance of surviving the bleed that killed herif she had been given the procedure, an inquest was told yesterday.
http://www.independent.ie/national-...t-jehovahrsquos-witness-her-life-1980879.html

"Someone in my sister's congregation (perhaps an elder) found a doctor 3-1/2 hours away who would perform bloodless surgery. Time was crucial and she was in a weakened state already. She went through the surgery with minimal loss of blood, however the following day she had cardiogenic shock and lapsed into a coma and died shortly thereafter.
I don't think I'll ever get over what TURMOIL the J.W. BELIEFS HAVE CAUSED MY FAMILY...AND ESPECIALLY THE ISOLATION MY SISTER HAD FROM US. We didn't isolate her...her beliefs kept her from a relationship with her family for many, many years.
At her memorial service in the congregation where she attended...there was not one J.W. to speak PERSONALLY to any non-witness family member."
http://www.letusreason.org/Testim2.htm

"You cannot allow them to give your child blood![Jehovah's Witness Elders]."

Without further discussion, I asked them to leave, stating that we could not allow our child to die in this way. "If this is the God I serve, I am through with Him[father]." The elders left the hospital upset with me that I would not submit to them. "I hope," one elder even said, "she gets hepatitis from that blood, just to prove that it's bad!"
http://www.exmormon.org/exjw4.htm

My next post is going to show the members of Knicksonline the history of the Millerite movement. I will also compare and contrast the five major denominations that came from the movement . No insults, just facts supported by links as usual.

After that post, I will make another post and then that's it. Everyone will be aware of the facts.
 
Uh, let's see.

#1-You dodged all of the facts I presented, and you ignored the Biblical facts OGKnicksfan presented.

Nonsense. I expounded on your facts by representing the proper viewpoint from the bible and organization. You blame the organization for adhering to the bibles viewpoint. If the bible did not say to abstain from eating blood, it would not be an issue. JW follow the bible. So the real problem you have is the fact that someone chooses to listen to God, and it's a problem for you, because you simply do not wish to listen to God. That's why I have told you to man up and admit what this is about. YOU NOT WANTING TO DO GOD'S WILL! That is what this is about. Not Facts. Not Millerites. ABCD NOT WANTING TO DO GOD'S WILL, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE. Point blank. JW do not live by anything other than the bible. For everything the Organization says is acceptable, or not, can be cited scripturally. That is not brainwashing, that is showing just cause, why one serving God should either do, or not, to please him. No Elder, or member of the Governing body make their own rules. We all rely on God's word.

And no one dodged any biblical facts of OG. Because he does not have any. He views the bible from a mystical standpoint, whatever that is. That is his right, if that is what he chooses to do. However, JW read the bible from it's viewpoint, which is why Jehovah has granted us true understanding of his word. We are humble enough to listen to what he is saying, rather than our own spin. I mean seriously, how much of a spin job must one do on themselves to not clearly see that the Kingdom of God is an actual Kingdom, according to the bible? You really think all of the apostles were just making up the thought of actually leaving earth, and ruling as Kings with Jesus? No! They were made to understand that God's Kingdom is a real government, that will really rule over the earth. Not something that is mystically within a person. That's simply wrong! And not cuz I said it, but because it does not align with the consistent thought of those who mention it. They seem to think It's real, OG does not. JW side with them, because it appears to make way more sense.

#2-Everything I posted was a fact. If it's not a fact, why can't you disprove it?
Why do you dodge all of the questions?

The answer is that Jehovah's Witnesses are instructed to use
Theocratic Warfare(lying) in order to prevent "reproach" in their religion.

You seem to think I have something personal against Jehovah's Witnesses, but yet you cannot present one insult that I said towards Witnesses.

All of the facts I presented are about the Watchtower Society's treatment of its members and the mind control techniques used upon its members by the Governing body.

But since you're taught to believe the Watchtower Society has exclusive access to the "truth", you feel threatened by the actual truth:

"Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." Watchtower, December 1, 1981 p.27

" But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God?s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us. Watchtower September 15,1989 p. 23


The purpose of my posts is to inform people of the poor treatment the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses receive at the hands of the
Watchtower Bible & Tract Society/Governing Body.

You seem to exclude a lot of the things your religion teaches and does to its members which is unfair to the public.

Good day.

Again, they are facts. Cannot disprove Facts. However, your perception, and thoughts of these are skewed. You blame the organization, when really you shouldn't. There is biblical reasoning for every way JW choose to live. No blood, disfellowshipping, evasive actions, everything you've brought up. So really, you have a problem with God. Question him then. Ask him why he does not want those who love him to associate with his enemies, family or not. Ask him why to not eat blood. Ask him why it's ok to be evasive. But to be angry with the one organization that chooses to actually listen to God, is just silly.

You would be better served trying to find something that has no biblical basis in our beliefs, if you are trying to tear us down. But since you only like to deal with facts, that won't happen. Because no such instance exists. But as usual, I'll wait!!!!!
 
The problem I have encountered with many Jehovah's Witnesses' method of thinking is that they conflate God with "the organization." The organization is not, according to scripture, God: Jesus says that he is the way. Additionally, if "Christendom" is apostate, I do not know why the organization uses scripture selected for the bible by the Catholic Church.

According to scripture, Jesus is not God either. And what you, and many others that have a problem with the organization fail to realize, is that Jehovah has ALWAYS had structure for his people. The made structure for the Israelites, and the early Christians had a governing body. What do the Israelites, early Christians and modern day Christians have in common? We all took the lead from God's word ultimately, and it was passed down to the masses through the structure within the organization. So when JW's mention the 'organization', it's always because iot is a theocratic arrangement. So it in effect is God's organization, just like the Israelites of old were.

As far as Christendom and biblical quotes, every bible in the world is God's written word. Some bibles are translated with a certain tilt toward a viewpoint, whether it be trinitarian, olde english style, more legible for today's readers, what have you. But in the end, no matter what, if read with the theme of the bible in mind, any bible is God's word. The problem comes in when the theme is ignored.

Surely, you should have God personally deliver a correct book to your people, if all other spirituality is false.
All of the books are correct, however, jws will be biased towards the NWT. But it has been called the most accurate rendition on earth.

And, insofar as rules, you never answered my citations of scripture. They clearly state that the letter, ink, rules, etc., come from man and are not the way to communion with the divine, in Christianity.
Who gave Moses the mosaic law? Was he talking to himself in third person, or was God instructing him? God right? So then tell me how these rules are man made? That alone is enough to dispell your veiwpoint. Clearly then, you either have missed what the writer was really saying, or just put your own spin on it.

Also, the bible says here: 1 cor 6:9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God?s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men,

This verse says that if one thinks they can do these things, and see God's kingdom, they are being mislead. So one can take it as a rule, that if you practice adultery, God will leave you out, correct? All the first century Christians lived to avoid these things to please God. Clearly these are in place a rules. Things to avoid. One cannot be unrighteous if there were no rules, or things that God says are bad. Therefore, one MUST follow the rules of righteousness in order to gain God's approval. There is no way around it, God has rules we must follow. Period. No mystical, philosophical viewpoint changes what's evident. You will die, if you do not live according to righteousness. That means following rules.


Like ABCD, my hope is that all religious people, JW's and otherwise, find real spirituality, not these controlling, fear-based gatherings, seen across the world.
What is real spirituality, apart from the spirituality giver? Jehovah is spirituality. Therefore if you have found him, and serve him, there is no better place to be. Sounds to me this new age spirituality is freedom to be spiritual without having to listen to God. Because God has rules. God calls his people to gather. So again, your problem should be with God, not the ones trying to serve him. Be warned, you cannot win that argument though.

Religion must serve God and spiritual people [of all faiths], not organizations or man's desire to control other men. Jesus called organizations to serve men, not the other way around:
That is what JW do. Serve God and people. No one controls JW. We choose to serve God. That means living within his boundaries for humans. The elders live within them also. So does the governing body. So they do not control us. They are not in control. Jehovah is.



EDIT: As for ABCD, he is trying, it is clear to me, to help you and other witnesses view others in a positive light, rather than as being in league with the devil. He also wants you to be healthy, physically and mentally. He has no other reason for posting what he has.

What you guys don't get is that we don't look at people as in league with the devil. Not like we say "Og" is a devil worshipor. No. Being under influence, knowingly, or unknowingly is a dif deal altogether though. The bible says he runs the world. That means everything in it, he has control over it, other than God's organization. I mean, you read the bible, could Satan really offer Jesus all of the world's kingdoms if it was not his to give? And if he has that much power, has that changed? Would it be illogical to believe that he does not influence the world governments, which then means he is influencing people, knowingly, or unknowingly? If he can give the whole world to Jesus, would that also have meant the influence of those persons in those kingdoms? Obviously, right? So while I get people hate to hear that the devil has this influence, it is quite honestly the way it is.

No, JW do not leave a persons door thinking "they are the devil" But when faced with opposition, we do realize how strong satan's world has a hold on people. Philosophy is a persons singular vp on a matter. The problem with it, is if it steers one away from God's vp, it's dangerous. That is what satan did. He came up with his own philosophy, which caused him to want to try God on for size. This is why JW cling to God's word and his sayings, because they are always true. Not so much for philosophy.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Notice how angry Knicks4lyfe gets when he's confronted with the truth.

This is how the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to behave by the Governing body and the International Bible Students Association.

Notice how my previous posts made no reference to God, yet Knicks4lyfe keeps saying that I do not want "to do God's Will" and that I "have a problem with God."

The reason why Knicks4lyfe keeps accusing me and OGKnickfan of not wanting to do God's will and having a problem with God is because the Watchtower Society teaches the Jehovah's Witnesses to believe that the Governing body(men in suits) have direct access to God.

They are taught to believe the governing body is God's channel and that what is written in the Watchtower is God's word, even if it isn't in the Bible. For ex: The Watchtower allows its members to receive fractional blood but forbids whole blood or entire individual components that make up blood. Nowhere in the Bible does it say fractional blood is good but whole blood is bad.

It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose.”
(1939 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses, p. 85)

“It is through the columns of The Watchtower that Jehovah provides direction and constant Scriptural counsel to his people.”
(The Watchtower, May 1,1964)

" But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men[governing body] taking the lead among us."
Watchtower September 15,1989 p. 23

"God's Appointed Channel: Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an appointed channel of communication, "the faithful and discreet slave." That "slave" has the responsibility to determine what information is made available to the household of faith, as well as "the proper time" for it to be dispensed. This spiritual food is available only through the theocratic organization. We should always look to God's appointed channel for reliable information, not to a network of Internet users."
Our Kingdom Ministry September 2002.

According to the Jehovah's Witnesses, these people in the picture below have access to God and receive information directly from God to put in the Watchtower Magazines.

Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
GB1.jpg.w560h290.jpg
 
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Come on, you clownin now guy.

No one is angry. But your arguments have already been refuted. Everything we follow is based on Jehovah's ways.

No the bible does not say we can accept blood fractions. But we do know that Jehovah makes it do that fractions of blood are transferred from mother to child in the womb. So if he does that for every child born, why would that same process not be allowed for us if needed? So in the end JW are still trying to do things according to God. This decision was made with Jehovah in mind.

And you're wrong, the bible teaches that God has always had structure. Jehovah always placed leaders over the flock. Jesus told his disciples to make more and he would be with them.

Matthew 28:18,19,1,20
18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: ?All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,

20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.?

Was Jesus unorganized when he sent out his followers? No. Why would God's people not be organized? Those disciples Jesus spoke to, are of the governing body, or those who make up those who will rule with him. Therefore they are part of the structure he set up. God's channel. Whether u like it or not.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
[B said:
Knicks4lyfe;[/b]156095]Come on, you clownin now guy.

No one is angry. But your arguments have already been refuted. Everything we follow is based on Jehovah's ways.
You use sarcasm but you are not angry. I'm sure everyone believes you're not angry when you use exclamation points and claim OGKnickfan has no knowledge about the Bible, even though he has direct quotes from the Bible.

[B said:
Knicks4lyfe[/b];156095] No the bible does not say we can accept blood fractions. But we do know that Jehovah makes it do that fractions of blood are transferred from mother to child in the womb. So if he does that for every child born, why would that same process not be allowed for us if needed? So in the end JW are still trying to do things according to God. This decision was made with Jehovah in mind.
More theocratic warfare propaganda.


[B said:
Knicks4lyfe;[/b]156095] And you're wrong, the bible teaches that God has always had structure. Jehovah always placed leaders over the flock. Jesus told his disciples to make more and he would be with them.
And you're wrong, the Bible doesn't say the Governing body of the Jehovah's Witnesses have access to God.

Matthew 28:18,19,1,20
18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.
Thank you for admitting the truth. The Bible says Jesus had the authority in the heaven and on the Earth.

It did not say a governing body had the authority.

Nice try, though. Theocratic warfare doesn't work on me.

Was Jesus unorganized when he sent out his followers? No. Why would God's people not be organized?

Thanks for admitting you believe men in suits have direct access to God via channel.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
"He said: ?Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ?I am he,? and, ?The due time has approached.?
Do NOT GO After Them."
Luke 21:8 (New World Translation)

Watchtower Society and Charles Taze Russell's Predictions:
1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, 1994
http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
Jesus says the following about your attack on my knowledge of him...
Matthew 5
  • "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
Knicks4lyfe, you and all JW's I know say that you follow "the whole bible," implying others, who simply do not follow as you do, do not follow the bible correctly and are apostates.

If that's the case, why do you use a bible which the Catholics assembled, by choosing the different scriptures contained in it? Why not follow the Greek Orthodox Bible, which contains many other books, not chosen for inclusion in the Catholic bible?

Furthermore, by saying you follow "the whole bible," you are breaking the new covenant, in which Paul states a new covenant exists because the old one was wrong. The scriptures I posted, which you refuse to explain, prove this is the case. I also do not see Jehovah Witnesses observing sabbath, which is required by the old testament scriptures.

As for mysticism, if you research it, Christianity is mystical in nature. The early Christians, which Jehovah Witnesses claim to be descended from, were mystics. If you really care about worshiping God and not merely obeying the Jehovah's Witnesses, you would take the time to either verify or disprove both the scripture posted, which says you are not to follow "the whole bible" and the meaning of mysticism (which involves direct experience, in the present, of divinity).

And you continue to say that what you are commanded to do by elders makes sense, while I don't [when I have not commanded you to do anything]. I am not asking you to follow me. I am asking you to follow Christ and his apostle's message to love and be merciful. And this means following what makes sense to Christ, not to yourself or other men.

So... why won't you answer these scriptures in the context of rules, mysticism (i.e., direct experience of God) and a true Christian being commanded by men, i.e., the governing body?
  • 1 Thessalonians Chapter 1:4 For we know, brothers and sisters[b] loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. 6 You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.
  • Colossians 2: 20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 ?Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!?? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.
  • Hebrews 8: 13 By calling this covenant ?new,? he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
  • Hebrews 8: 7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
  • 2 Corinthians Chapter 3:You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant?not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
These scriptures tell us that one is not to follow the whole bible, that the old covenant was wrong, that this new covenant is mystical, i.e., something "not of the letter," i.e., not contained in any books, scrolls, tablets, or magazines, but written on "tablets of human hearts."

The holy spirit, via the apostle, goes as far as telling us that the letter (i.e., written language) kills, while the spirit "gives life," or brings us true spirituality. Because your books, just like those of any other legalistic religion, cannot embody this mystical union, you are deprived of a true connection with God.


 
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You use sarcasm but you are not angry. I'm sure everyone believes you're not angry when you use exclamation points and claim OGKnickfan has no knowledge about the Bible, even though he has direct quotes from the Bible.
So exclamation points mean anger? What if I was laughing my butt off? And just because you cut and paste scriptures, does not mean you have real biblical knowledge, much less accurate knowledge. And he does not apply biblical verses correctly, evidenced by the fact he thinks God's Kingdom is within people, when clearly Jesus, the apostles and the whole book of revelation say otherwise.





And you're wrong, the Bible doesn't say the Governing body of the Jehovah's Witnesses have access to God.
It does not directly say that if Adam would not have eaten from the tree, he would have continued to live, either. But that is where common sense comes in. Point is, it does not have to directly say that. But Jesus did say that those making disciples, teaching others to observe all of his commandments, would have his blessing. Only JW's are doing that in the world today. Therefore, Jesus is with them. Therefore, they are in effect, God's chosen people.

Matthew 28:18,19,1,20
18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: ?All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.
Thank you for admitting the truth. The Bible says Jesus had the authority in the heaven and on the Earth.

It did not say a governing body had the authority.

Nice try, though. Theocratic warfare doesn't work on me.



Thanks for admitting you believe men in suits have direct access to God via channel.

The governing body does not claim to have authority. They give all praise to Jehovah and his son. They are merely acting as the structure here on earth that Jehovah and his Son have chosen to work through.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Are the Jehovah's Witnesses a Unique organization?

Millerite Movement
Q: What is the Millerite Movement?
A: The Millerite Movement was a group of people who under William Miller's guidance believed Armageddon would come in 1844.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment

When the end did not come, William Miller admitted he was wrong and went about his way.

But would this be the end of false prediction? No.

Q: What Christian denominations came from the Millerite Movement?
A: Seventh-Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Church of God(Seventh Day). Several other small denominations came out of the Millerite Movement, too.
http://www.adventist.org/
http://www.watchtower.org/
http://cog7.org/

Q: When were these denominations formed?
A: Seventh-Day Adventists(1844), Church of God: Seventh Day(1858), Jehovah's Witnesses(1881)

In 1844 William Miller stepped down from making predictions, but Ellen G. White did not want to end all hope.

So she recruited thousands of members and created a “Shut Door Policy.”

The Shut Door Policy is identical to the Jehovah's Witnesses belief that at Armageddon only the Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved.

In Ellen G. White's policy, she stated that only Adventists would be saved and that anyone who did not join would perish forever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shut-door_theology

White predicted Jesus would “visibly” return in 1844, just like Charles Taze Russell(founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses) predicted Jesus would visibly return in 1874.

But when her prediction did not come true, she changed her prediction and stated that Jesus had started his “investigative judgement” “invisibly” in 1844, which is very similar to the Jehovah's Witnesses prediction that Jesus “invisibly” took his throne in 1914 AFTER Russell was wrong about Jesus “visibly” returning in 1874. It is also identical to the "investigative judgement" that Jehovah's Witnesses claim occured from 1914-1919.

"Anointed Christians who survived the testing period of 1914-19 were freed from the dominating influence of the world and from many Babylonish religious practices. The remnant went forward as a cleansed and refined people, willingly offering sacrifices of praise to God and having the assurance that they as a people were acceptable to him." ”Watchtower 1998 May 15 p.17

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigative_judgment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Coming_of_Christ

Ellen G. White created a large amount of beliefs, and Charles Taze Russell would “borrow” heavily from her teachings.

1. Ellen G. White believed the other non-adventist churches were under the power of Satan. To this day Adventists secretly believe the Catholic church is “the whore of Babylon.”
"Here we find the mark of the beast. The very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, on the part of the Catholic church, without any authority from the Bible."-Ellen G. White
This is identical the the Watchtower's teachings that the non-Witness churches are under the power of Satan.

"Is it presumptuous of Jehovah's Witnesses to point out that they alone have God's backing? Actually, no more so than when the Israelites in Egypt claimed to have God's backing in spite of the Egyptians' belief, or when the first-century Christians claimed to have God's backing to the exclusion of Jewish religionists." Watchtower 2001 June 1 p.16

Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep. 1 p.19


But wait, Ellen G. White began the Adventist movement in 1844, and Charles Taze Russell didn't start the Zion's Watchtower until 1881. Something is fishy here.

Let's do a comparison of the Seventh-Day Adventist(EST 1844) original beliefs and the Jehovah's Witnesses(EST 1881) original beliefs:

Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) accept and donate blood?
Yes(the JW would go back and forth and back and forth and back and forth with their blood policy, but they currently do not allow blood transfusions).
Watchtower quotes

Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) believe in the Trinity?
No. (in 1980 , the SDA church officially accepted the trinity, although they still believe Jesus is the archangel Michael, just like the JW religion).

Did the original SDA(Est. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) believe that Jesus was the archangel Michael?
Yes(both still believe this to be true).

Did the original SDA(Est. 1844) and JW(Est. 1881) believe that salvation comes from works and faith, with works being a major requirement?
Yes, both still hold this belief.

Did the original SDA(Est. 1844) and JW(Est. 1881) disfellowship and shun family members and friends for questioning one or more of their beliefs or not attending meetings regularly?
Yes(The Seventh-Day Adventists are no longer told to shun family members, but they still practice disfellowshipping. The Jehovah's Witnesses still practice both).

'You have seen the benefit of godly love, but do you know how to hate? These very strong words are an expression of godly hate, and you too must have this quality to be pleasing to God. Hate causes a feeling of disgust to well up inside you. You loathe, abhor, despise the object of your hatred Godly hatred never has as its object our Christian brothers, no matter how imperfect.' The Watchtower, July 15, 1974, page 442

"Love your enemies. ... Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned."
Luke 6: 26 - 37

Did the original SDA(EST 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) believe that the members of their religion's bodies are asleep until Armageddon?
Yes, both still hold this belief.

Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(Est. 1881) preach door to door?
Yes, both groups still preach door to door. SDA's and JW's preach on Saturday morning.
They both will have magazines and Bibles, when they go to your door, although Jehovah's Witnesses are more prone to using Theocratic Warfare since it's included in their doctrine.

Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) believe in eternal hell?
No. (SDAs and Jws believe non-members are put to death by God at Armageddon).

Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW (EST. 1881) believe in celebrating holidays?
Yes.

Contrary to popular beliefs, Jehovah's Witnesses frequently celebrated holidays that they refer to today as pagan. While SDAs still consider holidays pagan, they usually have celebrations during some holidays without acknowledging any significance for the day.

"What caused the Bible Students to stop celebrating Christmas? Richard H. Barber gave this answer: "I was asked to give an hour talk over a [radio] hookup on the subject of Christmas. It was given December 12, 1928, and published in The Golden Age #241 and again a year later in #268. That talk pointed out the pagan origin of Christmas. After that, the brothers at Bethel never celebrated Christmas again."
Yearbook 1975 p.147

In fact, Charles Taze Russell has a pagan symbol AND A CHRISTMAS WREATH on his grave site.
zoomtomberussel.jpg


prez-xmas.psd.jpg


Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) badmouth Catholics and other denominations?
Yes. Both the SDA books and JW Watchtower Magazines frequently talk negatively of other denominations to this day, especially the Catholic Church.
"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep. 1 p.19

Did the original SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) believe Christ would visibly return?
Yes. Ellen G. White predicted it would happen in 1844 and then backpedaled and claimed it was the start of Jesus' invisible investigative judgment. Charles Taze Russell changed his 1874 visible return of Christ into Jesus' invisible return of Christ in 1874 and then when his Armageddon prediction was wrong in 1914 changed his prediction to Jesus' invisible rule over the heavens.

Do the SDA(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) refer to themselves as being “remnant?”
Yes. Both groups claim to be the “chosen ones.
"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep. 1 p.19

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remnant_(Seventh-day_Adventist_belief)

Do SDAs(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) promote healthy eating and instruct their members on how to dress and groom themselves?
Yes. SDAs created many vegetarian cereals and canned products from Kellogs and Loma Linda, and many of their members exclude some or all meat and seafood from their diets. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that in paradise, the animals and humans will live in peace and will therefore be vegetarian.
SDAs and JW both have dress codes and encourage the members to shave.

Do SDAs(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) have magazines and other types of literature that they use along with the bible?
Yes, although SDAs use the King James Bible and do not believe their magazines have exclusive truth. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Watchtower & Awake magazines are a prerequisite to salvation and using the New World Translation alone is a sin.

"From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude. ...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home." --The Watchtower, August 15, 1981, page 28-29



Do SDAs(EST. 1844) and JW(EST. 1881) have baptism through full immersion?
Yes.

It's almost like Charles Taze Russell copied the vast majority of his beliefs from Ellen G. White.

Watchtower Society claims everyone except them will die in 1975. We are now in the year 2011.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DPe1iznoXI

The Link between the Millerite Movement and the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society:
William Miller used arithmetic to come up with his 1843 and 1844 end of the world prediction.
What did the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society use? Arithmetic.

"But it requires 457 full years before Christ, and 1843 full years after Christ [457+ 1843]
to make the 2300. Now the decree of Artaxerxes did not go into effect at the beginning of the year 457 B.C., but in the autumn of that year[+ 9 months]; it follows that the 2300 days would not terminate in 1843, but would extend to the autumn of 1844."
http://www.sdabol.org/BOL%20Research/2300day.htm

New World Translation Bible:
"Chronology: A. 1914(CE) ends Gentile Times: 1. Line of Kingdom rulers interrupted in 607 B.C.E.
"Seven Times" to pass until rule restored. Seven=2 X 3 1/2, or 2 X 1,260 days. A day for a year[makes 2,520 years] to run until kingdom's establishment."

These are the Bible quotes the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society uses to manipulate the truth and pretend their arithmetic has anything to do with the Bible.

But notice how none of the Bible quotes say 1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, or 1994.

But Luke 21:8 of the New World Translation does say this, "Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name saying, "I am he" and, "The due time has approached." DO NOT GO AFTER THEM."
 
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abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
It does not directly say that if Adam would not have eaten from the tree, he would have continued to live, either. But that is where common sense comes in. Point is, it does not have to directly say that. But Jesus did say that those making disciples, teaching others to observe all of his commandments, would have his blessing. Only JW's are doing that in the world today. Therefore, Jesus is with them. Therefore, they are in effect, God's chosen people.

It does directly say this:
"He said: ?Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ?I am he,? and, ?The due time has approached.?
Do not go after them."
Luke 21:8(New World Translation)

Jehovah's Witness end of the world predictions:
1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, 1994
http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm

I presented the facts with sources to back them up. Knicks4lyfe claimed OGKnickfan had no biblical knowledge and that I learned zero.

But surprisingly, the both of us have many quotes and sources to back up what we are saying.

And yet Knicks4lyfe seems to keep quoting from the same Watchtower literature.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Notice how angry Knicks4lyfe gets when he's confronted with the truth.

This is how the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to behave by the Governing body and the International Bible Students Association.

Notice how my previous posts made no reference to God, yet Knicks4lyfe keeps saying that I do not want "to do God's Will" and that I "have a problem with God."

The reason why Knicks4lyfe keeps accusing me and OGKnickfan of not wanting to do God's will and having a problem with God is because the Watchtower Society teaches the Jehovah's Witnesses to believe that the Governing body(men in suits) have direct access to God.

They are taught to believe the governing body is God's channel and that what is written in the Watchtower is God's word, even if it isn't in the Bible. For ex: The Watchtower allows its members to receive fractional blood but forbids whole blood or entire individual components that make up blood. Nowhere in the Bible does it say fractional blood is good but whole blood is bad.

?It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose.?
(1939 Yearbook of Jehovah?s Witnesses, p. 85)

?It is through the columns of The Watchtower that Jehovah provides direction and constant Scriptural counsel to his people.?
(The Watchtower, May 1,1964)

" But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God?s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men[governing body] taking the lead among us."
Watchtower September 15,1989 p. 23

"God's Appointed Channel: Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an appointed channel of communication, "the faithful and discreet slave." That "slave" has the responsibility to determine what information is made available to the household of faith, as well as "the proper time" for it to be dispensed. This spiritual food is available only through the theocratic organization. We should always look to God's appointed channel for reliable information, not to a network of Internet users."
Our Kingdom Ministry September 2002.

According to the Jehovah's Witnesses, these people in the picture below have access to God and receive information directly from God to put in the Watchtower Magazines.

Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
GB1.jpg.w560h290.jpg

The facts were presented.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Top ten contradictions of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
10. Jehovah's Witnesses are against abortion, but they support denying babies life saving blood transfusions.
"With you is the source of life.Psalm 36:9(New World Translation)Life, then, is a gift from God."
http://www.watchtower.org/e/200906/article_01.htm
"Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, 20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood."
Acts 15:19-20(New World Translation)
http://www.watchtower.org/e/200608/article_03.htm

9. Jehovah's Witnesses are against blood transfusions, but as of 2000 support receiving and donating "fractional blood." Where's the quote where Jehovah says blood is bad, unless it's fractional? I do not know.
http://jehovah.net.au/blood.html
According to the JW's history, they willingly accepted and donated blood until 1945.
blood_table.JPG


8. Charles Taze Russell, the Watchtower Society, and many members of the Jehovah's Witnesses have made a combined 10 false end of the world predictions: 1874, 1878, 1881, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975, and 1994, but they claim the "governing body" is the mouthpiece for Jehovah God.

7. The Jehovah's Witnesses(Est. 1881) claim to be "God's channel" yet 90% of their beliefs are the same as the Seventh-Day Adventist's beliefs(Est. 1844).
Ex: SDA's(Est. 1844) believe salvation is through works and faith; JW's(1881) believe the exact same thing. SDA's(Est. 1844) believe Jesus is the archangel Michael; JW's(Est. 1881) believe the exact same thing. SDA's believe holidays are of pagan origin; JW's believe the exact same thing. SDA's believe Hell is not real; JW's believe the same thing. SDA's believe they are the only true Christians; JW's believe the same thing.

6. Jehovah's Witnesses believe everyone outside of their religion is "worldly" and "under the power of Satan" yet they work in Government jobs, attend public school, and eat at fast food restaurants.

5. Jehovah's Witnesses are against Catholicism, yet from 1960 to 1983, the Jehovah's Witnesses Governing Body used a Catholic Spirit Medium(Johannes Greber's) interpretation of the Bible to support their New World Translation.
http://www.seanet.com/~raines/wtgreber.html

4. Jehovah's Witnesses claim they do not support judging others:
"Jesus said that we should not be judging one another."
http://www.watchtower.org/e/jt/article_08.htm
Yet in their April 15, 2008 study edition of their Watchtower Magazine, it says the following: "Another example of valueless words is found among the leaders of Christendom. Those claim to speak in God's name, but most of their utterances are not based on the Scriptures, and what they are saying is basically worthless. In other words, the governing body believes what the other denominations (Catholics, SDA's, Mormons, Baptists, Pentecostals) have to say is worthless.
The April 15, 2008 study edition of the Watchtower Magazine goes on to say: "Apostates too speak valuless words."

3. Jehovah's Witnesses claim you can come and leave the Jehovah's Witnesses as you please, but the governing body disfellowships people from their entire family, friends, spouses, and children if they choose to no longer believe or join another Christian denomination.

2. Most Jehovah's Witnesses will claim they are not brainwashed.
However, the Watchtower Society supports brainwashing.
"A musician who had lived the unreal life on drugs began studying the Bible With Jehovah's Witnesses. His associates ridiculed him, taunting "You are being brainwashed." He aptly[appropriately] replied: The shape our brains are in, they need a good washing."
Watchtower, March 15, 1973 Page 186-187 Paragraph 27

1. The Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the "only true Christians" and
"the only right religion." They even believe all other non-witnesses and religions are under the power of Satan. Yet, at the same time, when you point out their failed predictions & their child molestation incidents, they claim to not be perfect.


Most Witnesses are unaware of this, however, the first President of the Jehovah's Witnesses was "William Henry Conley."

Q: Why do Jehovah's Witnesses deny William Henry Conley was their first president?

A: William Henry Conley stopped believing in Russell's teachings, after his failed prophecies in 1874, 1878, and 1881. AND Conley donated money to non-Witness denominations.

That's right, folks. The very first President of the Jehovah's Witnesses chose to no longer believe in the Jehovah's Witness religion, after he had discovered Charles Taze Russell scammed him out of 1,000s of dollars in "donations" that he gave after being told Armageddon would come in 1881. In 1882, Conley stopped handing Russell donations, and his name was mysteriously no longer listed as the first president of the Watchtower.
Yet they are "the only true Christians."

In addition, Conley donated money to Christian denominations that Jehovah's Witnesses of today claim are "false and part of "Christendom."

The top 10 contradictions
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
No the bible does not say we can accept blood fractions. But we do know that Jehovah makes it do that fractions of blood are transferred from mother to child in the womb. So if he does that for every child born, why would that same process not be allowed for us if needed?

Consolation 12/25/1940, page 19: Blood transfusions spoken of as favorable.

Watchtower 7/1/1945, page 201: Blood officially banned in 1945.

Awake! 01/08/1954, page 24 : Disallowed the use of blood fractions.

Watchtower 9/15/1958, page 575: Changed policy allows use of blood fractions.

Watchtower 10/15/1959, page 640: No storage of blood before an operation.

Watchtower 9/15/1961, pages 558-599: Disallowed blood fractions.

Watchtower 11/15/1964, pages 680-683: Now allows blood fractions.

Watchtower 1967 No longer Permits Organ Transplants.


Awake 2/22/1975, page 30: Hemophilia treatment condemned

Watchtower 06/15/1978, pages 29-31: Hemophilia treatments allowed now.

Watchtower 6/15/1985, page 30: Factor VIII not allowed (from plasma pooled from as many as 2 500 blood donors)


Watchtower 3/1/1989, pages 30 & 31: Blood outside body permitted using dialysis.

Watchtower 6/15/2000, pages 29-31: Blood fractions from blood components allowed

The Governing body continues to flip flop, yet they claim to be
"God's appointed channel."

Our Kingdom Ministry September 2002 (For Britain) p. 8
5 God's Appointed Channel:Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an appointed channel of communication, "the faithful and discreet slave." That "slave" has the responsibility to determine what information is made available to the household of faith, as well as "the proper time" for it to be dispensed. This spiritual food is available only through the theocratic organization. We should always look to God's appointed channel for reliable information, not to a network of Internet users.




P.S.-The Watchtower Society claimed the United Nations was "the wild beast," but they joined the United Nations in 1992. Hypocrisy exposed.
The wild beast represents the United Nations organization... Thus the modern-day Assyrian (nations associated with the UN) will deal Christendom a mighty blow and will crush her out of her existence.”—Isaiah's Prophecy - Light for All Mankind vol. 1, 2000, p. 153
"Recently the NGO Section has been receiving numerous inquires regarding the association of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York with the Department of Public Information (DPI). This organization applied for association with DPI in 1991 and was granted association in 1992.
This news was shocking to individual Jehovah’s Witnesses who discovered the Society’s involvement with what they viewed as the “image of the wild beast.” They immediately began to question the Watchtower Society’s intentions concerning the United Nations. In response, the Watchtower Society quickly disassociated itself from the UN in October of 2001."
http://4jehovah.org/jehovahs-witness-united-nations.php
 
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Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
the Watchtower Society teaches the Jehovah's Witnesses to believe that the Governing body(men in suits) have direct access to God.

They are taught to believe the governing body is God's channel and that what is written in the Watchtower is God's word, even if it isn't in the Bible. For ex: The Watchtower allows its members to receive fractional blood but forbids whole blood or entire individual components that make up blood. Nowhere in the Bible does it say fractional blood is good but whole blood is bad.

I've read about this. Absolutely amazing/twisted and frightening. The Lord truly is a shepherd.
 
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