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Thread: Turiaf scored 2 pts.. Did he help us beat Indy???

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    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    Default Turiaf scored 2 pts.. Did he help us beat Indy???

    YES!!! This is all I'm trying to point out to some of you Mike D fans. Players can effect a game other than offensively. Players dont have to score in order to make huge contributions to a win. The game Turiaf had today is proof positive of this.

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Love Turiaf. Brings the defense and is a great teammate and a great guy.

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    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    I like his game also. Hopefully he can stay healthy and get 20-25 mins a game from here on out...

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    I want to see him start with Amar`e moved back to the 4, which is his favoured position.

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    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    This is even more of a reason why I wanna see AR and Moz get some burn. Everything doesn't revolve around offense...we have two athletic, young, 7 footers on the bench.....TWO!!!

    Some teams in the NBA wish they had one 7 footer as athletic as either Moz or AR. Why are they wasting away on a team that desperately needs some rebounding help? Does that make any sense under any sort of logic? "My team is getting killed on the boards...I have two athletic 7'0'' kids, who will only get better with reps, sitting on the bench...but instead of playing them to grab a ****ing rebound or two...I'm gonna let them ride the pine because I'd rather get Wilson's 10 points in 38 mins as a starter as opposed to 25-30 mins coming off the bench."

    Like Moneyg said in another thread....Love the record, hate the path.

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Listen, Mike D's teams played defense but the players he had, like STAT, didn't defend their man very well. Also, his teams in Phoenix were always undersized (and now NY). When they are able to run and force teams to play a very fast, scattered type game; they were successful. But when teams forced them into a slow methodical half court game (especially San Antonio) that small sized worked against them. We are seeing affects of that; teams grossly out rebounding us.
    That is why I am miffed at everyone here wanting to bring in more players that do not play defense, 1 dimensional selfish scorers. Turiaf and Fields has shown us the benefits and value of a strong minded defensive players on the court.
    Also, we are not seeing AR and Moz playing because they are extreme liabilities on the court right now. Moz gets a foul just walking onto the court and AR is out of control when he gets playing time. Mozs inability to adapt to the NBA causes him to disrupt the Knicks game; kills momentum and sends the other team to the foul line. AR is just bouncing off the walls when he gets on the court! I know Mike D concentrates on him in practice but AR is struggling. If the Knicks want to burn this season as well, they could just tlet AR and Moz play and try to see if they can work out their issues on the court.... Do we want that?
    A player can have all sorts of talent but if they can not fit into a system or a a city stresses them out.... What good are they to us? They have more trade value than playing value for us... I'm sure Mike D would love a 7 ft player with his athleticism and talent; but if that can't be realized with the Knicks than he needs to be moved.

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    YES!!! This is all I'm trying to point out to some of you Mike D fans. Players can effect a game other than offensively. Players dont have to score in order to make huge contributions to a win. The game Turiaf had today is proof positive of this.
    Your argument is flawed.

    The difference between Turiaf and AR/Moz is turnovers and fouls. Period.

    Nothing gets you glued to the bench faster than inane turnovers and unnecessary fouls. Learn the game Clydeandthepearl.. Your off to bad start on the forum.

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    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Your argument is flawed.

    The difference between Turiaf and AR/Moz is turnovers and fouls. Period.

    Nothing gets you glued to the bench faster than inane turnovers and unnecessary fouls. Learn the game Clydeandthepearl.. Your off to bad start on the forum.

    Not trying to get into a dick swinging contest with you ronoranina, but I've forgotten more about BBall than you'll ever know.

    Based on your philosphy when STAT was averaging 7 T O's a game (he's still over 4) he should have been benched. Nah I dont think so. Does Moz get into foul trouble a bit too much? Possibly? But. IMHO he's being targeted by the refs. Many of his foull calls are of the ticky tack variety. I've seen this kid develop. In preseason he had a problem with moving screens. Got coached up now you rarely see that called on him (when he actually plays). The only solution for this is to let him play and let the refs see he's game more, and coach him up.

    As far as AR I thought it was shot selection? Funny that a coach that wants shots to go up in 7 secs or less has a problem with a players shot selection. The problem is AR doesnt have a midrange jumper of note. If he did he'd be playing. It doesnt matter that defensively he could lock down a bunch of small forwards in this league. It doesnt matter that if you get him closer to the rim his shooting % goes up DRASTICALLY. If he cant run the offense to COACHES liking he's benched.

    Whats funny Gallo (although I admit he's improving) couldnt defend my 12 year old neice. But because he's the BEST SHOOTER our coach has ever seen he gets 35 mins a night. You wanna look at flaws? Lets look at Gallos. He's weak. Cant take it to the rim consistently. No handle. Cant defend. Cant shoot off the dribble. Has no left hand. Inside game is NON-EXISTENT. Yet coach extols his limited game. But offensively he fits what Mike D wants to do. Like I said in another post defense is 50% of basketball.

    In the future when you come at me make sure its real. Nitpicking at a players flaws doesnt make that player totally useless to that team.

    Basically we need a new coach...
    Last edited by Clyde & The Pearl; Jan 03, 2011 at 14:28.

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    Not only does he bring tuffness, energy and Defense...he is great for comedy relief. This guy just cracks me the **** up... and he seems to be a great teammate too.

    A much needed player to assist us in our most lacking areas.

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    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    Not trying to get into a dick swinging contest with you ronoranina, but I've forgotten more about BBall than you'll ever know.

    Based on your philosphy when STAT was averaging 7 T O's a game (he's still over 4) he should have been benched. Nah I dont think so. Does Moz get into foul trouble a bit too much? Possibly? But. IMHO he's being targeted by the refs. Many of his foull calls are of the ticky tack variety. I've seen this kid develop. In preseason he had a problem with moving screens. Got coached up now you rarely see that called on him (when he actually plays). The only solution for this is to let him play and let the refs see he's game more, and coach him up.

    As far as AR I thought it was shot selection? Funny that a coach that wants shots to go up in 7 secs or less has a problem with a players shot selection. The problem is AR doesnt have a midrange jumper of note. If he did he'd be playing. It doesnt matter that defensively he could lock down a bunch of small forwards in this league. It doesnt matter that if you get him closer to the rim his shooting % goes up DRASTICALLY. If he cant run the offense to COACHES liking he's benched.

    Whats funny Gallo (although I admit he's improving) couldnt defend my 12 year old neice. But because he's the BEST SHOOTER our coach has ever seen he gets 35 mins a night. You wanna look at flaws? Lets look at Gallos. He's weak. Cant take it to the rim consistently. No handle. Cant defend. Cant shoot off the dribble. Has no left hand. Inside game is NON-EXISTENT. Yet coach extols his limited game. But offensively he fits what Mike D wants to do. Like I said in another post defense is 50% of basketball.

    In the future when you come at me make sure its real. Nitpicking at a players flaws doesnt make that player totally useless to that team.

    Basically we need a new coach...
    Wow.

    +1 rep.

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    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Wow.

    +1 rep.

    Thank you sir...

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    Not trying to get into a dick swinging contest with you ronoranina, but I've forgotten more about BBall than you'll ever know.

    Based on your philosphy when STAT was averaging 7 T O's a game (he's still over 4) he should have been benched. Nah I dont think so. Does Moz get into foul trouble a bit too much? Possibly? But. IMHO he's being targeted by the refs. Many of his foull calls are of the ticky tack variety. I've seen this kid develop. In preseason he had a problem with moving screens. Got coached up now you rarely see that called on him (when he actually plays). The only solution for this is to let him play and let the refs see he's game more, and coach him up.

    As far as AR I thought it was shot selection? Funny that a coach that wants shots to go up in 7 secs or less has a problem with a players shot selection. The problem is AR doesnt have a midrange jumper of note. If he did he'd be playing. It doesnt matter that defensively he could lock down a bunch of small forwards in this league. It doesnt matter that if you get him closer to the rim his shooting % goes up DRASTICALLY. If he cant run the offense to COACHES liking he's benched.

    Whats funny Gallo (although I admit he's improving) couldnt defend my 12 year old neice. But because he's the BEST SHOOTER our coach has ever seen he gets 35 mins a night. You wanna look at flaws? Lets look at Gallos. He's weak. Cant take it to the rim consistently. No handle. Cant defend. Cant shoot off the dribble. Has no left hand. Inside game is NON-EXISTENT. Yet coach extols his limited game. But offensively he fits what Mike D wants to do. Like I said in another post defense is 50% of basketball.

    In the future when you come at me make sure its real. Nitpicking at a players flaws doesnt make that player totally useless to that team.

    Basically we need a new coach...
    I don't think anyone would bench STAT for his turnovers but then again STAT is not AR!! To use STAT is just a poor example since his dominance over shadows his turnovers... All though he does turn it over at crucial times in the 4th but never enough to warrant a benching!
    To say Gallo doesn't take it to the rim consistently makes me question how much you actually watch the team... His defense is mediocre but he seems to defend all the heavy weights. As far as his inside game, he is supposed to be a perimeter player not a slasher or force in the paint. He supposed to draw the defense out to defend the longer range shot and that supposed to free up STAT and Chandler...
    AR was benched for many reasons... Whether you or I agree with those reason is irrelevant. The obvious is he is a liability on both sides but he has always used his athleticism to compensate. The Knicks are trying to win this year, not develop project players or evaluate talent..... Same with Moz, if this was Sacramento then he would play more but not with a team trying to move to the next level.

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    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    I don't think anyone would bench STAT for his turnovers but then again STAT is not AR!! To use STAT is just a poor example since his dominance over shadows his turnovers... All though he does turn it over at crucial times in the 4th but never enough to warrant a benching!
    To say Gallo doesn't take it to the rim consistently makes me question how much you actually watch the team... His defense is mediocre but he seems to defend all the heavy weights. As far as his inside game, he is supposed to be a perimeter player not a slasher or force in the paint. He supposed to draw the defense out to defend the longer range shot and that supposed to free up STAT and Chandler...
    AR was benched for many reasons... Whether you or I agree with those reason is irrelevant. The obvious is he is a liability on both sides but he has always used his athleticism to compensate. The Knicks are trying to win this year, not develop project players or evaluate talent..... Same with Moz, if this was Sacramento then he would play more but not with a team trying to move to the next level.

    7 TO's a game is alot, but I agree you dont bench STAT. You think Gallo goes to the rim? Just lately I've seen an effort from him to get there. When he does 90% of the time one bump and he's falling on the floor flailing his arms all over the place. Unless he is untouched he aint finishing.

    AR benched because he cant consistently hit the jumper. Thats it. You're telling me that AR who got you 8 pts, 6 boards, 1.2 blocks and almost 1 steal in 18 mins a game as a rookie cant help this team win? Dont believe it. I asked this in my other thread. When are we going to stop making excuses when it comes to Mike D and his handling of bigs? He's been proven wrong twice already. I'd bet my house that he's wrong about Moz and AR.

    Think Knicks are trying to win, granted I understand. But, when we go up against the Celts, Heat, Hawks, and other teams in the playoffs, with bigs length is mandatory. I think we need to get these guys as much PT as possible without hurting our win total.

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    7 TO's a game is alot, but I agree you dont bench STAT. You think Gallo goes to the rim? Just lately I've seen an effort from him to get there. When he does 90% of the time one bump and he's falling on the floor flailing his arms all over the place. Unless he is untouched he aint finishing.
    I think that's more the European style. Look at Manu (the biggest flopper of all) and it happens all the time in soccer. European basketball is about getting to the free throw line (and getting basically free points). I hate the flopping but it's the nature of the European game, nothing we can do about it really.

    But if Gallo is drawing fouls on key interior defenders, that is helpful to the team as a whole.

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    7 TO's a game is alot, but I agree you dont bench STAT. You think Gallo goes to the rim? Just lately I've seen an effort from him to get there. When he does 90% of the time one bump and he's falling on the floor flailing his arms all over the place. Unless he is untouched he aint finishing.
    I don't care if he is grabbing his knee and crying like a little girl, as long as he ends up on the charity line.... Which he is! By the way, he does throw it up and from time to time, it goes in so he get's a chance at 3!

    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    I asked this in my other thread. When are we going to stop making excuses when it comes to Mike D and his handling of bigs? He's been proven wrong twice already. I'd bet my house that he's wrong about Moz and AR.
    He is? Hmmm, I'm sorry, I thought the Knicks were wining... Also, I swear that on my television I watched Mozgov get 2 fouls within the first 2 minutes of stepping onto the court....Every game. I also remember with AR, he will block a shot but then blow the defense when transitioning down court, never mind bricking up most of his shots. AR is a long term project! One that may produce huge returns but nothing that he has done has shown that he deserves being in the rotation. It doesn't matter what he did 3 years ago, this year he hasn't earned a spot.

    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    Think Knicks are trying to win, granted I understand. But, when we go up against the Celts, Heat, Hawks, and other teams in the playoffs, with bigs length is mandatory. I think we need to get these guys as much PT as possible without hurting our win total.
    Yes, I agree that Boston's bigs can cause us issues but 2 7 footers that can't get out of their own way is not the answer either! Being 7' tall isn't the only criteria needed to earn a spot!
    Last edited by hometheaterguy; Jan 03, 2011 at 17:48.

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