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Thread: Turiaf scored 2 pts.. Did he help us beat Indy???

  1. #31
    Veteran Clyde & The Pearl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    But those guys don't play good d. They foul guys. I'm sorry but 6 quick team fouls and us in the penalty is not good defense. It seems to me that Mike D doesn't want to start a parade of guys to the line for the sake of "length". This has already been clearly explained to u several times by myself and other posters. You've lost this argument already. You're making no sense.
    OK I get where our disconnect is. You think Moz and AR have to be perennially 1st team all defense in order to play against the bigs in this league. I think they just need to be better than a 6 8 Chandler. Being that they both at least 4 inches taller I think they are.

    Who says were going to get to the penalty early every quarter these guys play? You? The other posters? Its not likely. But even if we did the benefits these cats could offer far outweigh putting other teams starting centers on the line. If you dont know MOST starting centers in the NBA shoot free throws very poorly. The benefits are they'll decrease 2nd chance points and used properly increase ours. Now this "TRADE OFF" I can deal with.

    I'm making sense. Its just that I dont agree with because you think Mike D is doing an excellent coaching job.
    Last edited by Clyde & The Pearl; Jan 03, 2011 at 20:36.

  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    I'm still not sure what your argument is for not only putting them into the rotation but starting Mozgov??? We tried that and it failed, why would we revisit it?? Darko got an extension from a team that wasn't playing for anything based on the last few months of the season... Can you say Jerome James?
    What has Jordan Hill done for Houston? Am I missing something?
    I have to admit that I would like to see AR get some consistent minutes, but since we are always in the thick of it in the 4th, there really isn't any "garbage time" that can afford us some development time for AR, Mozgov and Rautins... Randolph needs to be on a team that will give him no less than 20/25 minutes a game to really hone his game and right some things that are off.
    Never said start Moz. Start Turiaf. But being that Turiaf is only a 20-25 min a night player get Moz 10 min at least. You can go small the other 12-13 mins a night if necessary.

    Jordan Hill is making a contribution to his team. Months after Mike D deemed him useless. Why is this so hard to understand?

  3. #33
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    OK I get where our disconnect is. You think Moz and AR have to be perennially 1st team all defense in order to play against the bigs in this league. I think they just need to be better than a 6 8 Chandler. Being that they both at least 4 inches taller I think they are.

    Who says were going to get to the penalty early every quarter these guys play? You? The other posters? Its not likely. But even if we did the benefits these cats could offer far outweigh putting other teams starting centers on the line. If you dont know MOST starting centers in the NBA shoot free throws very poorly. The benefits are they'll decrease 2nd chance points and used properly increase ours. Now this "TRADE OFF" I can deal with.

    I'm making sense. Its just that I dont agree with because you think Mike D is doing an excellent coaching job.
    No, dummy, I think they have to not be foul machines (which they are at this point) in order to play against bigs in the league.

    **** Williams is what, 6'9 and an average defender. But you don't hear me complaining about him and coach plays em because he doesn't foul guys incessantly. It helps that he can shoot too, but thas besides the point.

    It's as I said the reason Moz and AR don't play is because of fouls and to's.

    And, as others have pointed out more recently, AR is more facked because he can't shoot consistently.

    Let's see if I can get you to understand from a different angle. If AR remained offensively challenged as he is w his bad shot selection and bad shooting, but he kept his to's low, understood the flow of the offense and could play good d & rebound w out fouling. I think Mike D would have no choice but to play him. Making sense??

    AR is not there yet w respect to the above areas. If and when he can be trusted he'll play. Same for Moz..

  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    No, dummy, I think they have to not be foul machines (which they are at this point) in order to play against bigs in the league.

    **** Williams is what, 6'9 and an average defender. But you don't hear me complaining about him and coach plays em because he doesn't foul guys incessantly. It helps that he can shoot too, but thas besides the point.

    It's as I said the reason Moz and AR don't play is because of fouls and to's.

    And, as others have pointed out more recently, AR is more facked because he can't shoot consistently.

    Let's see if I can get you to understand from a different angle. If AR remained offensively challenged as he is w his bad shot selection and bad shooting, but he kept his to's low, understood the flow of the offense and could play good d & rebound w out fouling. I think Mike D would have no choice but to play him. Making sense??

    AR is not there yet w respect to the above areas. If and when he can be trusted he'll play. Same for Moz..
    Dude, you're an idiot. I'm done. But, before I go I'll render this last post as useless as your previous posts. You keep rehashing fouls and T O's as the major reason Mike D doesnt play these guys. Are these the same reasons he didnt play Darko and Hill? Did he favor a small lineup in Phoenix because the bigs there also were T O and foul prone?

    If you cant see that Mike D is just comfortable with guys that can shoot from at least 15ft you are blind my friend. Players have to fit his system in order to get run. He could have Chris Dudley (I doubt you know who he is or what his strengths and weaknesses were on the court) and he'd get absolutely no playing time.

    Your point about Williams is also dumb. If Williams couldnt shoot he wouldnt be playing. I mean you cant be this much of an idiot not to see this. Can you? If you switch Williams and Randolphs skill set right now we'd be talking about Williams not getting any PT. You have to realize this. I think.

    Please know what you're talking about before you approach anyone else with this subject. I mean I hate for a fellow Knick fan to sound so ignorant.

    Like I said before DEFENSE IS 50% of basketball!!!

  5. #35
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    good points guys nice thread........ people going back and fourth making there point and backing it up ........ i agree on starting Turiaf give him 20 dont overwork him and then give Moz like 5-10 see how he does.... then run the court like we do well and go small for like 15-20 n also see how that goes, then maybe we can give Ar 5-10 and see how he plays start slow with him give em a lil development nd a CHANCE.... no one disrespecting eachother cool cool... Clyde +1 rep and Rona u both make good points tho i have to agree with some of both of ur points..... now lets take it to the spurs tomorrow, GO KNICKS. give me 30 tomorrow stat! n stay out of godamn foul trouble, hopefully Turiaf will help him out...

  6. #36
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    Damn great points in this Thread!

    However I'm going to have to disagree that AR and Mozgov can be as effect without scoring and playing D like Turiaf can because of one thing, and that is confidence. Turiaf has major confidence in himself and the team and brings it every day. Just like in the Pacer game he was playing great and Missed a dunk but he didn't let that get him down he even said at half that he knows he can play better and shouldn't miss dunks ever.
    Now how many times have we seen Moz miss the ball or commit a foul and instantly get down on himself or how many times have we seen Ar pout while being on the bench. This is because they lack confidence, whether it goes back to Mike D not playing them or they just don't think their that good i don't know. But trust me until they get confident in themselves they won't produce what we think they can.

  7. #37
    Superstar welcometonycity's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Knicksfansince92
    Damn great points in this Thread!

    However I'm going to have to disagree that AR and Mozgov can be as effect without scoring and playing D like Turiaf can because of one thing, and that is confidence. Turiaf has major confidence in himself and the team and brings it every day. Just like in the Pacer game he was playing great and Missed a dunk but he didn't let that get him down he even said at half that he knows he can play better and shouldn't miss dunks ever.
    Now how many times have we seen Moz miss the ball or commit a foul and instantly get down on himself or how many times have we seen Ar pout while being on the bench. This is because they lack confidence, whether it goes back to Mike D not playing them or they just don't think their that good i don't know. But trust me until they get confident in themselves they won't produce what we think they can.
    agreed, but when Turiaf and Stat on the floor at the same time i like i like...
    and Ar nd Moz need some minutes but slowly and they need to PROVE themselves on the court....

  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by welcometonycity
    agreed, but when Turiaf and Stat on the floor at the same time i like i like...
    and Ar nd Moz need some minutes but slowly and they need to PROVE themselves on the court....
    Yeah I think they should get Billy Walker's minutes and some of Shawne's too because 20 mins a game is to high for him. I think at one point we should see

    TD
    Fields
    Gallo
    Randolph
    Gov

    on the floor for like a 5-7 min stretch to really rest our Capts.

  9. #39
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    Now that Gallo's out the starting rotation should be

    Felton
    Fields
    Chandler
    Amar'e
    Turiaf

    G - Douglas, Walker
    F - Randolph, Williams
    C - Mozgov

    That's not a terrible ten man rotation and the most important thing is that it gives our starters some time to rest. We should make use of a rotation like that in a game against, say, the Spurs, for example, where we probably wouldn't win even at full strength, so we might as well send in our backups to get them some playing time. Same with blowout games.

  10. #40
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    I don't really understand why this is an attack on D'antoni?

    If Turiaf is a dud in the offense but is getting very significant playing time and being used effectively doesn't that mean that D'antoni knows HOW to use the big man? He's got 2 points yet D'antoni lets him play, so clearly it's not ALL about offense for D'ant. He would play him more if the guy wasn't an injury waiting to happen.

    But in the mean time, Chandler has been pretty effective as a starting 4, but again he is playing out of position and against big power house teams like the lakers this small lineup is going to be ineffective.

    Some people here seem to think that playing Mozgov or AR will help. Some would rather we took away minutes form players who are playing well and cohesively and giving us WINS, bringing us to the playoffs, and give them to our youngest, turnover prone low basketball IQ rookies...

    Ok so D'antoni, Walsh, Management, the players themselves, the fan base and the analysts have all stated "Playoffs or BUST" yet some people here want us to give up easy buckets, take poor shots, disrupt the offensive flow, give teams fouls and free baskets.... for what? So AR, a throw in on the D.Lee trade, can get some burn and possibly injure himself to ruin any trade potential? Or so that Mozgov can go out there, foul out while cloging the lane and turning over the ball on offense?

    AR and Moz get what they earn in practice. And when they get those minutes they should turn in a much better performance. Then we can play them more regularly. Until they prove they can be effective there is no reason to give them a lot of burn in a year when we are trying to make the playoffs.

  11. #41
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by p0nder
    I don't really understand why this is an attack on D'antoni?

    If Turiaf is a dud in the offense but is getting very significant playing time and being used effectively doesn't that mean that D'antoni knows HOW to use the big man? He's got 2 points yet D'antoni lets him play, so clearly it's not ALL about offense for D'ant. He would play him more if the guy wasn't an injury waiting to happen.

    But in the mean time, Chandler has been pretty effective as a starting 4, but again he is playing out of position and against big power house teams like the lakers this small lineup is going to be ineffective.

    Some people here seem to think that playing Mozgov or AR will help. Some would rather we took away minutes form players who are playing well and cohesively and giving us WINS, bringing us to the playoffs, and give them to our youngest, turnover prone low basketball IQ rookies...

    Ok so D'antoni, Walsh, Management, the players themselves, the fan base and the analysts have all stated "Playoffs or BUST" yet some people here want us to give up easy buckets, take poor shots, disrupt the offensive flow, give teams fouls and free baskets.... for what? So AR, a throw in on the D.Lee trade, can get some burn and possibly injure himself to ruin any trade potential? Or so that Mozgov can go out there, foul out while cloging the lane and turning over the ball on offense?

    AR and Moz get what they earn in practice. And when they get those minutes they should turn in a much better performance. Then we can play them more regularly. Until they prove they can be effective there is no reason to give them a lot of burn in a year when we are trying to make the playoffs.
    Thank you!

    Ponder, this is what I've been trying to explain to that nitwit clydeandthepearl.. You are a rational man. Respect.

  12. #42
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Thank you!

    Ponder, this is what I've been trying to explain to that nitwit clydeandthepearl.. You are a rational man. Respect.
    Ron,

    You are arguing with someone who started two threads to post his same posts on both threads to make his point. To me someone who goes that far to make his point shows he is pretty well entrenched in it and there is NO use arguing it.

  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by Blas
    Ron,

    You are arguing with someone who started two threads to post his same posts on both threads to make his point. To me someone who goes that far to make his point shows he is pretty well entrenched in it and there is NO use arguing it.
    true that.

  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by p0nder
    I don't really understand why this is an attack on D'antoni?

    If Turiaf is a dud in the offense but is getting very significant playing time and being used effectively doesn't that mean that D'antoni knows HOW to use the big man? He's got 2 points yet D'antoni lets him play, so clearly it's not ALL about offense for D'ant. He would play him more if the guy wasn't an injury waiting to happen.
    The reason I attack Mike D as you say is because he has better options to play the bigs we are going to face. Chandler has been playing great. But unless we defend and rebound better our playoff experience is going to be very short.


    Originally Posted by p0nder
    Some people here seem to think that playing Mozgov or AR will help. Some would rather we took away minutes form players who are playing well and cohesively and giving us WINS, bringing us to the playoffs, and give them to our youngest, turnover prone low basketball IQ rookies...
    Its all good that some players are playing well. But if we can get our bigs to play better it will translate to more wins. It will translate to lasting longer in the playoffs,


    Originally Posted by p0nder
    AR and Moz get what they earn in practice. And when they get those minutes they should turn in a much better performance. Then we can play them more regularly. Until they prove they can be effective there is no reason to give them a lot of burn in a year when we are trying to make the playoffs.
    How can they earn playing time in practice when they dont fit Mike D's offensive scheme? I dont understand why you guys cant see this.

  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by Blas
    Ron,

    You are arguing with someone who started two threads to post his same posts on both threads to make his point. To me someone who goes that far to make his point shows he is pretty well entrenched in it and there is NO use arguing it.
    Yea you're right. I believe what I see. Not what everyone else wants me to believe. I wish most of us did the same...

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