Keeping Chandler?

Damn son I'm starting to think this Hometheaterguy is Igouldala's Agent or part of his entourage. Igoulda = overpaid player. Chandler>>>> Iggy and to make it worse Chandler is much younger. Iggy ain't carrying nothing the last year they made it to the playoffs Andre Miller and Sammy Dalembert carried Iggy. Also that was a 1st round knock out.

If Chandler was on Phil he would get doubled too because he would be by far their best player next to Jrue Baby Face Holiday. C'mon SOn stop hating on WIll he's too ILL
 
If Will keeps this up, I would strongly reconsider the need for Melo, but we would still need to add another threat. Mayo, Caspi, and a big. The better Will plays, the less inclined Donnie will be to overpay for Melo.
 

KingCharles34

All Star
First of all, I write in this forum for fun so when I put together a trade idea; it's just for fun. Everyone, including myself, was caught up in the Melo drama so I came up with an alternative trade I thought would better suit the Knicks. I also based my trade on rumors I red that Dwight was unhappy and wanted a change. It's funny, but only a few weeks after I made that trade suggestion, Orlando blew up the roster in order to make sure Howard stays..... So my trade wasn't completely unfathomable.

I went a long time with out really posting a lot in this forum due to work. Home Theater is a hobby but I have been a systems/network engineer for 15 years, managing IT departments 10 of those years so I was extremely busy. So, I didn't post in anyone's threads... Also, there was a time I was just tired of arguing about Marbury and bowed out.

I don't know what "bodied" means or applies so I don't know if it is a negative condenation or not...

lol bodied means killed but its all good :lol:

Its all good with that Howard trade to, it did seem like you were serious but sometimes you have to be very clear on here, I can see how someone would think that i was saying Chandler is as good as marion was but please believe me, i never at any point have thought that. Chandler has improved alot, hes still only 23 but hes not the Matrix. Hes a poor mans marion that still has upside.

And i must have missed when you said hes sub par defender last night, the way i see it hes at least average. What you said about him lettin the offensive player blow by him is true at times, he does need to be more consistent with keeping the offensive player in front of him at all times and always gettin a hand in there face but most players in the league are scorers, not defenders so I'd say his defense is at least average and hes got alotta potential just like any player in the league when it comes to defense. So much of it is just effort and determination, but unfortunately its scoring that gets basketball players more money then defense. And i would take Chandler over Iggy
 

moneyg

Starter
If Will keeps this up, I would strongly reconsider the need for Melo, but we would still need to add another threat. Mayo, Caspi, and a big. The better Will plays, the less inclined Donnie will be to overpay for Melo.

i think thats the key...chandler makes us hesitate on melo.. gallo doenst
 

Oldtimer

Rotation player
Chandler & Melo some Problems

It is hard tp predict "cap" problems going forward without the benefit of a Collective Bargaining Agreement. For purposes of initial consideration, let us assume that the new one will be essentially identical to what is currently in existence.

Although I get different numbers from different sites, it appears that the Knicks salaries for 2011-12 are about $44M and change. It is unclear that Fields has a guaranteed salary but he is certainly a keeper at $788,000. Although some of the posters have suggested that Mozgov's 2011-12 salary is not guaranteed, I believe it is and every salary site I have looked at suggests that it is. He had a very big buy-out and thus at least two years of his contract is guaranteed. His 2011-12 amount is about $2.566M on one site, $3.2M on a second site and $3.343M on a third site. Chandler will be a restricted free agent. His qualifying offer numbers range from $2.53M on one site to $3.099M on two other sites. Turiaf has a player option number at $4.1M on one site and $4.36 on the other two. Randolph is in at a consistent $2.9M. Douglas is in at a consistent $1.145M. Gallinari is at $3.49M on one site and $4.19M on the two other sites. I tend to trust the sites with the higher numbers. For present purposes, however, the differences do not matter.

Amare's salary next year will be $18.2M. Felton's salary will be $7.5M. Chandler's qualifying offer will count at $3.099M. Douglas is in at $1.145M. Fields is in at $788K. Walker's $916M salary may not be guaranteed. It is unclear from the sites whether there are team options for Gallo's $4.19M and AR's $2.91M, but if we do not keep them, we will certainly use them in trades. Their contracts will not be "renounced."

No matter how we slice it, as matters now stand we are looking at about $44M in salaries for 2011-12. The current cap number is $58.044M.

if we trade for Melo, it will be because Melo wants/demands the max contract that Denver has offered. He can only get this with a sign and trade. As I understand the contract offer, it would call for $17.686M next year, and something in the Amar'e range of $19+M in 2012-13; $21+M in 2013-14; and $23+M in 2014-15.

If we were to trade for Melo, then his contract, plus Amar'e's contract, and Felton's contract would put us over $43M. We will have Chandler's Bird rights, so we will be able to sign him, but as a restricted free agent he will certainly have offers North of $10M a year. If we were to add just $10M to $43M we will be over $53M for those 4 players. We will have some serious cap problems for several years.

If we are lucky enough to sign Melo as a free agent, even if we count Chandler only at his qualifying offer number and then work things out with him with our Bird rights after we sign Melo, we are going to have to eliminate some of our contracts without taking equivalent contract amounts back in order to pay him whatever the allowable max will be. No matter what, we will have serious cap problems going forward and unless we get lucky somewhere we will remain in need of a big man.

In any event, if Walsh means what he says -- that he will sign Chandler (and keep him) -- either we do not get Melo, or Gallo and AR are certainly someplace else. Even if we do not get Melo, Gallo and AR are likely assets in a trade for a promising -- or proven-- big man.

I do not believe we need Melo, but i think Walsh would hate to see him go to the Nets.

On another note, perhaps related, I really like Gallo, but there is currently no question that Chandler is the more versatile and productive player. Given a choice, i do not believe there would be a single GM who would not choose Chandler over Gallo. But this observation should not diminish Gallo's overall value. He is not Amar'e either.

Gallo suffers from a lack of athleticism, but he compensates pretty well. i expect him to be a very solid player for many years. Because of his lack of athleticism, it will take him some time to adjust the talents he does have and to mold an effective game compromised by his lack of quickness. He will find a way. He appears to be a very good team player and a very good team mate. Despite the MSG marketing that has always featured him too prominently, he did not ask for it. His shot is going to come. He will get stronger. He will eliminate his body control awkwardness
by learniing his limits. Some day he might well prove to be more valuable than Chandler, but I am not prepared to bet on that today.
 

moneyg

Starter
can anyone .. ANYONE show me one game that Gallo has put up big numbers against a good team.. JUST ONE GAME.. the only thing i remember him doing was drawing that flop of a foul on Melo.. that was his feel good moment of the season..

and denver aint even that good..

just one game guys...
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
can anyone .. ANYONE show me one game that Gallo has put up big numbers against a good team.. JUST ONE GAME.. the only thing i remember him doing was drawing that flop of a foul on Melo.. that was his feel good moment of the season..

and denver aint even that good..

just one game guys...

Boston - 20 pts (0 in first half, frustrating, but those are big numbers)
Miami - 25 pts
Bulls - 24 pts

I thought you weren't a hater?
 

moneyg

Starter
Boston - 20 pts (0 in first half, frustrating, but those are big numbers)
Miami - 25 pts
Bulls - 24 pts

I thought you weren't a hater?


...and we went 1-2..

im not...just showing his valuse.. its called facts..

i thought u werent a cock luva
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
...and we went 1-2..

im not...just showing his valuse.. its called facts..

i thought u werent a cock luva

So, what's your point?

You asked a question, I answered. Why are you pointing out that we lost to the 2 best teams in the East, if not the entire NBA? Are you implying they were Gallo's fault? Is this your reasoning for saying Gallo doesn't have any value for this team? I dont get it. A so-called Gallo fan wouldn't point these out, only a hater.

I'm not a Gallo lover. Just a Knick fan standing up for a Knick player receiving illegitimate scrutiny. I would do the same for Chandler.
 

moneyg

Starter
So, what's your point?

You asked a question, I answered. Why are you pointing out that we lost to the 2 best teams in the East, if not the entire NBA? Are you implying they were Gallo's fault? Is this your reasoning for saying Gallo doesn't have any value for this team? I dont get it. A so-called Gallo fan wouldn't point these out, only a hater.

I'm not a Gallo lover. Just a Knick fan standing up for a Knick player receiving illegitimate scrutiny. I would do the same for Chandler.


the name of the thread is keeping chandler.... and to do so.. gallo has to go.. chandler has more value..

just pointing out why

u dont think i knew what games you were gonna come back with before i asked the question.. i just goes to show u that...

GALLO has played above average.. slightly ....in one win against a good team.. and that has little value


oh and we won more than 1 game against good teams... and gallo had lil to do with it
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
the name of the thread is keeping chandler.... and to do so.. gallo has to go.. chandler has more value..

just pointing out why

u dont think i knew what games you were gonna come back with before i asked the question.. i just goes to show u that...

GALLO has played above average.. slightly ....in one win against a good team.. and that has little value

Why does Gallo HAVE to go? Why do we HAVE to only keep 1? I personally want to keep both. Why does it have to be one or the other?

We're winning with both. And just because Gallo only put up "big" numbers against and lost to the two best teams in the East doesn't show he doesn't have value. Chandler scored 17 and 18 points in the two losses and only 10 in the win. What does that say?

Gallo has been instrumental in many of our wins this year. And what does having big numbers have to do with the way this TEAM is winning games? There have been many wins this year where we had 6-7 players in double figures, with only Amare over 20 pts. I personally like those games. TEAM wins. I like the way this TEAM plays.

I suppose if we get Melo and keep Chandler, then yes, Gallo becomes redundant, we don't need him. But at this point I would say having them both compliment each other, Amare and Felton running the pick-and-roll, and the entire team. Gallo has value to this team.

I'm still curious as to your motivations. It doesn't have to do with this thread because you posted it 3 times in 3 threads. It comes off as fishing for excuses to dislike Gallo.

If I'm wrong I apologize. The deeper I dig with all this anti-Gallo crap, the more I find the true motivations for the hate. And, for the most part, it doesn't seem to be objective or fair.
 

moneyg

Starter
Why does Gallo HAVE to go? Why do we HAVE to only keep 1? I personally want to keep both. Why does it have to be one or the other?

We're winning with both. And just because Gallo only put up "big" numbers against and lost to the two best teams in the East doesn't show he doesn't have value. Chandler scored 17 and 18 points in the two losses and only 10 in the win. What does that say?

Gallo has been instrumental in many of our wins this year. And what does having big numbers have to do with the way this TEAM is winning games? There have been many wins this year where we had 6-7 players in double figures, with only Amare over 20 pts. I personally like those games. TEAM wins. I like the way this TEAM plays.

I suppose if we get Melo and keep Chandler, then yes, Gallo becomes redundant, we don't need him. But at this point I would say having them both compliment each other, Amare and Felton running the pick-and-roll, and the entire team. Gallo has value to this team.

I'm still curious as to your motivations. It doesn't have to do with this thread because you posted it 3 times in 3 threads. It comes off as fishing for excuses to dislike Gallo.

If I'm wrong I apologize. The deeper I dig with all this anti-Gallo crap, the more I find the true motivations for the hate. And, for the most part, it doesn't seem to be objective or fair.


melo mele melo ...keep chandler.. remove gallo for pieces we need...thanks for clarifying my point...
 

elcol

Rotation player
melo mele melo ...keep chandler.. remove gallo for pieces we need...thanks for clarifying my point...

thats the whole point, melo is not a piece we need, we have gallo and chandler, there is no need to give one up right now. think about it..it really doesn't fit our system to have to 2 guys that are both well used to having the offense run through them. besides, we lead the league in scoring or we are WELL close to leading the league in scoring, therefore if you used your logic we wouldn't need another scorer. im not saying either is that great of a defender, but gallo is better than melo.
stop dickriding bro support our players or we're no better than the heat.
 

moneyg

Starter
thats the whole point, melo is not a piece we need, we have gallo and chandler, there is no need to give one up right now. think about it..it really doesn't fit our system to have to 2 guys that are both well used to having the offense run through them. besides, we lead the league in scoring or we are WELL close to leading the league in scoring, therefore if you used your logic we wouldn't need another scorer. im not saying either is that great of a defender, but gallo is better than melo.
stop dickriding bro support our players or we're no better than the heat.

gallo is not better than melo

that as about as a dumb statement as it gets....

no one can agree with that.. if so.,..id luv to trade gallo to the nets for all those picks...

goodbye
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
melo mele melo ...keep chandler.. remove gallo for pieces we need...thanks for clarifying my point...

Oh, well this is where we disagree...again. I don't think we need Melo. I've debated that point in other threads and don't want to hash that one out again. Lol.

And I believe elcol was referring to defense, Gallo being the better defender that is, not the better overall player.
 
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hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
@ MoneyG - lol I know what bodied meant, I was just playing around, playing the pseudo adult... I hate to be the guy that has negative things to say about Chandler, like I said I love him on the team and want the Knicks to keep him. My argument all along was with dismantling this team in a trade for Melo. It's funny, I have become the hater when really it's my love for Chandler and Fields that makes me look at the alternative pieces to bring in. The whole reason why we got into the Iggy vs Chandler is everyone saying we don't need Iggy because we have Chandler and starting to lump them together. I am saying they play 2 different position and Iggy on this current team would really help lock them down with out changing them at all! He would fall right into place with the style of this team. His game fits this team .... Like a glove!!
Also, yes Chandler's defense was better last night (from what I saw, I fell asleep before the half).
I wish I was his agent... I wish I was an agent period!!!
For those who think we will get Melo for Gallo and a few picks are just delusional; Denver doesn't want what we have now and that included Chandler! From what I understand, the only player that they have any interest in at all is Landry Fields and it seems the Knicks are trying to hold onto him but in the end the will send Fields to get Melo. And that brings me back full circle... Melo will NOT test out free agency while there is no new CBA!! He will eventually either resing with Denver or approve a trade to another team and resign with them. That's why I suggested the Knicks go after Iggy, Varejo and even OJ Mayo because they could get all of them while keeping this core intact. I trully bellieve we can get Iggy and Varejo for salary relief and picks.... I think we could get Iggy for a trade that includes Gallo and Curry's contract..... Just imagine the rotation and the 3/2 with Chandler, Fields and Iggy!!!! The 5/4 Rotation with STAT, Turiaf and Varejo! Or even go after Michael Beasley, I think he is the same player as Melo @ a fraction of the cost. On the right team, Beasley could develop into a star!
 
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moneyg

Starter
@ MoneyG - lol I know what bodied meant, I was just playing around, playing the pseudo adult... I hate to be the guy that has negative things to say about Chandler, like I said I love him on the team and want the Knicks to keep him. My argument all along was with dismantling this team in a trade for Melo. It's funny, I have become the hater when really it's my love for Chandler and Fields that makes me look at the alternative pieces to bring in. The whole reason why we got into the Iggy vs Chandler is everyone saying we don't need Iggy because we have Chandler and starting to lump them together. I am saying they play 2 different position and Iggy on this current team would really help lock them down with out changing them at all! He would fall right into place with the style of this team. His game fits this team .... Like a glove!!
Also, yes Chandler's defense was better last night (from what I saw, I fell asleep before the half).
I wish I was his agent... I wish I was an agent period!!!
For those who think we will get Melo for Gallo and a few picks are just delusional; Denver doesn't want what we have now and that included Chandler! From what I understand, the only player that they have any interest in at all is Landry Fields and it seems the Knicks are trying to hold onto him but in the end the will send Fields to get Melo. And that brings me back full circle... Melo will NOT test out free agency while there is no new CBA!! He will eventually either resing with Denver or approve a trade to another team and resign with them. That's why I suggested the Knicks go after Iggy, Varejo and even OJ Mayo because they could get all of them while keeping this core intact. I trully bellieve we can get Iggy and Varejo for salary relief and picks.... I think we could get Iggy for a trade that includes Gallo and Curry's contract..... Just imagine the rotation and the 3/2 with Chandler, Fields and Iggy!!!! The 5/4 Rotation with STAT, Turiaf and Varejo! Or even go after Michael Beasley, I think he is the same player as Melo @ a fraction of the cost. On the right team, Beasley could develop into a star!


im confused.. i said nothing about being bodied or what bodied meant.. wrong guy...

is iggy a good additon.. yes.. is it more necessary than the 5 or back up PG.. no

why... because we already got chandler

ok now.. my real question is.. why does philly want to get rid of Iggy.. for one .. they have been playing well without him.. so why do they want to give him up in your opinion???

the new CBA will probably force rollbacks on salaryies so it wont matter if meloe signs that extension..

u have to understand.. you can not restructure salary cap and such without adjustin what already exist...becuse teams that have large contracts under the old will have to have an option to cut those back... similar to the Allan houston rule...so melo will get paid regardless

if melo signs an extension...it would mean that after this season he would have 4 years left onhis contract 4 years...

if he sign with the Knicks in the summer he can sign a 5 year deal

and can possibly do an sign antrade with Denver for that sixth year... so i dont see the pressing need to sign an extension

even if the new cba cuts back contracts by one year.. which will probably be the middle ground

Melo can still get a 4 year contract from us.. which is all he would have by signing this extension...

also melo will enjoy more endorsements in NY and his wife will make more money as well... when your married .....its a group effort.. totaly househoold income....in this case.. melo's household will not miss a beat
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
im confused.. i said nothing about being bodied or what bodied meant.. wrong guy...

is iggy a good additon.. yes.. is it more necessary than the 5 or back up PG.. no

why... because we already got chandler

ok now.. my real question is.. why does philly want to get rid of Iggy.. for one .. they have been playing well without him.. so why do they want to give him up in your opinion???

the new CBA will probably force rollbacks on salaryies so it wont matter if meloe signs that extension..

u have to understand.. you can not restructure salary cap and such without adjustin what already exist...becuse teams that have large contracts under the old will have to have an option to cut those back... similar to the Allan houston rule...so melo will get paid regardless

if melo signs an extension...it would mean that after this season he would have 4 years left onhis contract 4 years...

if he sign with the Knicks in the summer he can sign a 5 year deal

and can possibly do an sign antrade with Denver for that sixth year... so i dont see the pressing need to sign an extension

even if the new cba cuts back contracts by one year.. which will probably be the middle ground

Melo can still get a 4 year contract from us.. which is all he would have by signing this extension...

also melo will enjoy more endorsements in NY and his wife will make more money as well... when your married .....its a group effort.. totaly househoold income....in this case.. melo's household will not miss a beat

Actually it was KingStarbury3 that the bodied up response was for....
A few points that you brought up:
1) Philly is ready to go into an entire rebuilding process so getting rid of Iggy's and Brand's contracts are their #1 priority. They know at this point that Brand's contract is impossible to move but Iggy's contract will be a little easier to move since it is not a max contract and Iggy is still a very valuable player... for the right team.
2) Still what is unknown with the new CBA is the cap and what the luxury tax threshold is going to be. Cap is a huge issue because that can determine allot for a team on what players they can sign and how many. A few million could be the difference of whether a team can sign a max or not,,,
3) I can only comment on what I read and hear but from all accounts, Melo will not go past the trade deadline with out a resolution.... This notion that players will take less money to come to NY and earn more in endorsements have NEVER panned out with anyone! Name a player in any sport has taken less money to come to NY under the premise that he/she can make more in endorsements?? Melo's people will never let him go past the trade dead line with a unknown new CBA looming with out a solid deal on the table!
 

moneyg

Starter
@HT guy. So in one breath u say iggy is young and his contract is not that bad. In the next you say philly wants to get rid of him becuz of his contract. I can understand gettin rid of brand but iggy is a player you build around.

From what ur saying he is a key piece and is paid accordingly

As for the cba. He can get more guaranteed money with a 5 year form us or 6 year sign and trade versus the 4 years of guaranteed money he will get with an extension. The cba will only be able to eliminate one year. The player won't go for two. That's a fact and stern knows it

So even if he get a 5 years sign and trade. He will still get more years guaranteed

Stat get a heck of a lot more for endoresments and finacial opps for being in ny. While he didn't take less. He has gained by doin so. And melo knows that.

Ur thoughts
 
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KingCharles34

All Star
I sorta like hometheaterguys idea of givin up Curry and Gallo for Iggy. And then going out and gettin Varajao in a side deal. Then our starting 5 would look like this

Felton/Douglas
Iggy/Fields
Chandler/Fields
Amare/Varajeo
Turiaf/Varajeo

That would be a small 8 man rotation, which Dantoni would love. While AI doesnt give us much 3 point shooting, we would still have that with Felton, Fields, Chandler, and Douglas off the bench. Varejao would give us some much needed height. Even though hes only listed as being an inch taller then Turiaf and Amare, he plays like a center. He would be valuable against the Celtics as he has already proven he can defend KG, Iggy would be the player that we need to slow down paul pierce too.
 
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