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Thread: Is Randolph a bust or more of Marbury/Nate/Hughes

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    Default Is Randolph a bust or more of Marbury/Nate/Hughes

    IMO, there are two things that are very certain about Anthony Randolph.

    1. He's extremely raw and needs playing time to improve his decision making

    2. He would be a highly productive rebounder and shot blocker for the Knicks if he was given minutes because he has already proven that at GS and in limited minutes here. He's been getting 11 rebounds and 2.4 blocks per 36 minutes throughout his career (even this year).

    The real question is what is driving his banishment to the bench and how much his fault and how much is D'Antoni's?

    We all know that when coach D'Antoni doesn't like your personality, work ethic, or something else about you he is willing to banish you the bench EVEN IF it hurts the team. He did that with Marbury and Nate and to a lesser extent with Hughes too. There were games and match ups where those players would obviously have helped the Knicks, but because they were out of the short rotation and in the doghouse he refused to play them. IMO that was was self destructive stubborn behavior.

    With Randolph, he clearly got off to a bad start and then turned his ankle. That didn't help. But this kid has talent and we need rebounding and an inside presence badly at times.

    You can tell his energy and enthusiasm are both low these days when he's on the bench and when he gets minutes in garbage time, but to me it seems as though he's depressed about his fall from grace.

    We have to keep in mind that this is not some rookie that is just happy to be on a team (like Rautins). This is a player that was starting a lot of games for Golden at age 19 and age 20 (before he got hurt). He was also one of the hottest prospects in the league. Now he's a garbage time player.

    I think in his mind he views himself as more than a raw rookie. He thinks of himself as a player that has a lot to learn, but that has also been around for awhile now and has shown he can play and be productive in this league.

    I think his reaction is somewhat understandable. Even Mason has been grumbling a little about not getting a fair shake. All non rookies do.

    In any event, IMHO we have a great prospect that is not developing, not contributing, not keeping his game sharp, losing his motivation and losing trade value every day.

    What are we to do about this and whose fault is it?

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    In the few minutes he has gotten, he has not looked good (unlike the other 3 people you mention).

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    In the few minutes he has gotten, he has not looked good (unlike the other 3 people you mention).
    That is definitely true from a scoring/shooting perspective, but he is actually rebounding and blocking shots extremely well per minute for the Knicks in his limited time.

    Look at per his 36 minute stats for his career and this year at this link.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    You see, he HAS been productive on the boards and as a shot blocker. People just don't realize it because because he's not on the court long enough to make an impression. They just notice the missed shots.

    The thing about his scoring is that he used to score fine for GS when he was used in the open court, slashing, and getting offensive rebounds etc... Now he's out on the perimeter like one of D'Antoni's wings. That's a huge problem because he doesn't have a good outside shot yet. So naturally he looks bad because he's missing shots he should not be taking. It's also not helping that he can't get steady minutes.

    So like I said, is this a AR issue or is this D'Antoni trying to fit a square peg into a round whole, the peg not fitting, the coach yanking him, and the peg sulking because he's knows he's a good player not being used to his strengths and now he's just so frustrated and without confidence we have destroyed his trade value too.

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    we could sure use the "future allstar" to come up right now with gallo out... we are pretty weak in the front court.... he needs to come out right now and get it done or furgettaboutit... trade him

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    He's also been having a lot of turn overs, if you watched the game against the suns, he just threw the ball out of bounds. Also, he chucks up stupid shots, and doesn't hustle back on D. Mike is worried about his job security so he's racking up wins before he does anything with Randolph. I'm sure he's developing in practice and is being worked on. He'll be in the line up or traded by the end of the season.

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    he just needs to stop tryin to hit a homerun on everyplay

    he needs to relize that we dont need you to fully impress.... just play within the system...he tries to get to flashy.. espn highlights.. ya know

    if he just focuses on rebound, playin d, shot blocking and pull up on those short jumpers versus tryin to dunk on the whole roster.. he be fine

    kinda like fields.. he not the most flashy player...like turiaf.. neither is he..

    but you know what ... they contribute..

    fan favorites are not mostly all stars...just hustle players


    he's feels he is so far behind.. he's tryin to crack the rotation in one play

    not gonna happen...

    more fustration on his part then lack of IQ or determination..

    just relax AR... take a deep breath and relax...

    and make those small hustle plays...or throw ya boz up like T moz

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    I think it's way too early to call him a complete bust. He needs time to learn and a lot of coaching.

    I do wonder how much coaching goes on though. I mean, how hard is it to tell him to just rebound, block shots and go after putbacks? Never shoot the ball from beyond 15 ft, and never dribble the ball down the court on a fast break?

    Tell him to focus on those things and the rest will come. We'll work on the shooting/ball-handling later.

    I don't blame D'Antoni too much. I think it is obvious he plays the players that he can trust, play well in practice, listen, and perform in games. Landry Fields and Shawne Williams are perfect examples. If Randolph performed in practice I'm sure he would get minutes. D'Antoni sure knows how to destroy a young player's confidence though.

    Randolph has shown he can put up amazing numbers if given minutes and we are near the bottom of the league in rebounds, so I hope he can put it together soon.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    I think it's way too early to call him a complete bust. He needs time to learn and a lot of coaching.

    I do wonder how much coaching goes on though. I mean, how hard is it to tell him to just rebound, block shots and go after putbacks? Never shoot the ball from beyond 15 ft, and never dribble the ball down the court on a fast break?

    Tell him to focus on those things and the rest will come. We'll work on the shooting/ball-handling later.

    I don't blame D'Antoni too much. I think it is obvious he plays the players that he can trust, play well in practice, listen, and perform in games. Landry Fields and Shawne Williams are perfect examples. If Randolph performed in practice I'm sure he would get minutes. D'Antoni sure knows how to destroy a young player's confidence though.

    Randolph has shown he can put up amazing numbers if given minutes and we are near the bottom of the league in rebounds, so I hope he can put it together soon.
    It's one thing to tell him to do (or not to do) those things, it's another to have him actually do (not do) them.

    Williams and Fields (and even Mozgov, for a time) are proof positive that D'Antoni is willing to give castoffs a try if he feels they can help the team. Next time the Knicks are on, watch Randolph's body language in the huddle and when he gets up for a timeout. Compare that body language to Timofey Mozgov's. Randolph is apathetic and seemingly unhappy on the bench, Mozgov is the first guy off it and is involved in the huddle. It doesn't look like Randolph cares sometimes and if he has similar body language at practice it's no wonder why he wouldn't get any burn.

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    Its way to early to yell out bust, just because he hasn't gotten enough play. Unless your at the team practices, nobody here really knows anything. I say winning right now is more important than developing trade bait. When the Knicks have safely secured a playoff spot, then I can understand criticizing D'Antoni for not giving him some burn in a couple of meaningless games.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    I do wonder how much coaching goes on though. I mean, how hard is it to tell him to just rebound, block shots and go after putbacks? Never shoot the ball from beyond 15 ft, and never dribble the ball down the court on a fast break?
    That's what I keep asking myself.

    That might be the core of the problem. Coach doesn't want a player like that. He wants someone that knocks down 3s. So he puts Randolph on the perimeter and gives him the green light... to miss everything.

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Next time the Knicks are on, watch Randolph's body language in the huddle and when he gets up for a timeout. Compare that body language to Timofey Mozgov's. Randolph is apathetic and seemingly unhappy on the bench, Mozgov is the first guy off it and is involved in the huddle. It doesn't look like Randolph cares sometimes and if he has similar body language at practice it's no wonder why he wouldn't get any burn.
    I agree.

    The thing is, guys like Mozgov, Williams, and Rautins are just happy to be in the league at this point (Williams because he was on his way out due to off the court issues). Randolph was a starter and a hot commodity while at GS. So it has to be brutal for him now that he's just garbage time player. I think he has more or less thrown in the towel and wants out. His mind is working more like a veteran than a rookie even though he's younger than those guys because he's been in the league longer.

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    It's one thing to tell him to do (or not to do) those things, it's another to have him actually do (not do) them.

    Williams and Fields (and even Mozgov, for a time) are proof positive that D'Antoni is willing to give castoffs a try if he feels they can help the team. Next time the Knicks are on, watch Randolph's body language in the huddle and when he gets up for a timeout. Compare that body language to Timofey Mozgov's. Randolph is apathetic and seemingly unhappy on the bench, Mozgov is the first guy off it and is involved in the huddle. It doesn't look like Randolph cares sometimes and if he has similar body language at practice it's no wonder why he wouldn't get any burn.
    Agreed. He may not be listening to the coaching.

    And I have noticed the same thing in timeouts. Sulking the way he does makes me believe he has a bad attitude. But I can't say for certain though. Some guys are just not the jumping up and down type (e.g. Chandler).

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    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Agreed. He may not be listening to the coaching.

    And I have noticed the same thing in timeouts. Sulking the way he does makes me believe he has a bad attitude. But I can't say for certain though. Some guys are just not the jumping up and down type (e.g. Chandler).
    Could be the case. He seemed pretty excited in the game against Boston when Amar'e made that three that didn't count from the picture I saw.

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    He has looked like hot garbage in every minute of basketball he has logged this season. This; and the fact that no one from Golden State misses him makes me want to scream everytime some posts a "Why is Dantoni benching AR?" thread.

    He doesn't deserve any minutes so I say send him to the D League.

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    Originally Posted by Italian Stallion
    IMO, there are two things that are very certain about Anthony Randolph.

    1. He's extremely raw and needs playing time to improve his decision making

    2. He would be a highly productive rebounder and shot blocker for the Knicks if he was given minutes because he has already proven that at GS and in limited minutes here. He's been getting 11 rebounds and 2.4 blocks per 36 minutes throughout his career (even this year).

    The real question is what is driving his banishment to the bench and how much his fault and how much is D'Antoni's?

    We all know that when coach D'Antoni doesn't like your personality, work ethic, or something else about you he is willing to banish you the bench EVEN IF it hurts the team. He did that with Marbury and Nate and to a lesser extent with Hughes too. There were games and match ups where those players would obviously have helped the Knicks, but because they were out of the short rotation and in the doghouse he refused to play them. IMO that was was self destructive stubborn behavior.

    With Randolph, he clearly got off to a bad start and then turned his ankle. That didn't help. But this kid has talent and we need rebounding and an inside presence badly at times.

    You can tell his energy and enthusiasm are both low these days when he's on the bench and when he gets minutes in garbage time, but to me it seems as though he's depressed about his fall from grace.

    We have to keep in mind that this is not some rookie that is just happy to be on a team (like Rautins). This is a player that was starting a lot of games for Golden at age 19 and age 20 (before he got hurt). He was also one of the hottest prospects in the league. Now he's a garbage time player.

    I think in his mind he views himself as more than a raw rookie. He thinks of himself as a player that has a lot to learn, but that has also been around for awhile now and has shown he can play and be productive in this league.

    I think his reaction is somewhat understandable. Even Mason has been grumbling a little about not getting a fair shake. All non rookies do.

    In any event, IMHO we have a great prospect that is not developing, not contributing, not keeping his game sharp, losing his motivation and losing trade value every day.

    What are we to do about this and whose fault is it?
    I think if this idiot Mike D went to AR and told him "look I'm going to give you 20-25 mins a night, and I want you to concentrate on this, this and this he'd help this team in a big way. He'd relax, he'd focus and he'd play well. I mean the guy was a top 10 pick for a reason. But hey thats just MHO...

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