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Thread: So if Donnie can obtain a couple #1's why hasnt he done it already?

  1. #1
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Default So if Donnie can obtain a couple #1's why hasnt he done it already?

    I think Donnie Walsh is one of the more reliable GM's in that he makes what he believes can happen actually come to fruition. Case in point he said he was confident he could trade contracts like Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford, and Jared Jefferies for expiring contracts and he was able to do that.

    He also said he was confident that he could land a Prized FA this summer and that too came to pass

    So when Donnie says he is confident he can land two #1 picks, his track record suggest that he is not pulling an Isiah and could make what he is saying happnen.

    But.........why wait if you feel this deal could go down?

    I suspect that the deals are Randolph to whoever for a #1 and the other one I think would be Tariaf to Orlando for a trade exception and a pick.

    The latter just being my opinion which comes with no insight beyond that of an average fan.

    But assuming these are the deals, why wait on getting them done? Even if we don't use them to acquire Melo, these are the types of chips you want a month before the trade deadline.

    two first rounders, 14.6 million in expiring contracts, plus players like Gallo, Wilson,Douglas and Feilds to dangle is a nice package to have to offer clubs...now of course not all in one package.


    Melo aside...lets look at how we can freak it.

    Lets take Orlando's later pick, plus Azzy's contract and Douglas, that lands a player Like Mayo.

    Curry's contract plus the early of the two picks lands Andre Iggy (not that Im all that sold) or Kaman.

    But if it is Melo we are after.....Both picks Curry's contract Gallo and Feilds gets that done....side note: I am totally against this trade and Carmelo trade talks all together, just trying show how we gain leverage by obtaining picks early.


    Point is....lets get the ball moving on getting these picks, because we know how much the can help us in improving our team...heck.....we could even use them for ourselves!

  2. #2
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    I think what he's thinking is this: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Recent news is that Donnie Walsh can trade/will trade Anthony Randolph for a first round pick. Interesting to note though that trading Randolph for one pick can be equivalent to trading him for two, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. Here’s how:

    The Knicks cannot currently trade this year’s pick because Houston has the rights to their 2012 pick and according to the current collective bargaining agreement teams cannot trade future first round picks in consecutive years. Thus the Knicks cannot trade their 2011 pick or their 2013 pick.

    But if Donnie Walsh can get a 2012 pick in a trade for Randolph then that pick replaces the pick the Knicks owe to Houston and the Knicks can trade this year’s pick and their 2013 pick.

    Those picks could be useful in a trade for a star player…

    [Special thanks to [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] who sought clarification on this point from the esteemed Larry Coon.]

    ----------------------

    It's all a game of chicken right now. WALSH has many options; Randolph will be dealt. By no reason to act now b/c Carmelo is his #1 target.

    1) This is a weak draft class. No reason to fret if we lose a pick, which wouldn't be a top 10 anyway.

    2) I think we can all safely agree that Carmelo Anthony is better than Danillo Gallinari.

    3) If the only thing preventing having Felton-Melo-Chandler-Amare in your starting 5 is Landry Fields, then you have to trade the kid.

    The 4 players are almost like the perfect 4 for MD's SSOL system. All that's left is finding a SG and a C, along with a bench. Sure, that's not easy... But in the NBA today you cannot win with just 1 superstar.

    Fields and Gallo will never be superstars. Good players.. YES. But you can find role players a helluva lot easier than you can find game-changing superstars.

    Think of it this way, imagine what AMAR'E does for Chandler, Gallo, Fields. His presence alone make life easier for those 3 on the court. NOW, add Carmelo to the mix and imagine what that does for role players?

    Shawne Williams is not Gallo or Fields, but he's proving he could be a nice role player.... Giving you a 3-point threat and some points off the bench. Turiaf is a solid rotation big man.

    The big 4 plus these 2 is nice. We have Douglas for now. We'll find a backup PG after the season. Mozgov might take years to come around (if ever). BUT, we will find a big this summer, especially if we have Melo-Amare.

    All we need now is a starting SG. Get that and we can compete for a title. Seriously.

    I like Gallo and Fields. But NOBODY, not even diehard NYK fans, will believe this team has any hope to win a title next year with those 2.

    Sure, get me Mayo, Marc Gasol, Luke Ridnour and suddenly we are pretty good as well. Maybe even better than if we trade for Carmelo.

    BUT, remember that MD loves offense. The Knicks are built to win with offense. We have maybe the best scoring PF in the game. Why not bring in the best scoring SF, maybe even the best scorer in the NBA, to pair with STAT?

    If it happens... GREAT. If it doesn't... we move on and make those deals (such as ones you mention). BUt no reason to act until the time is right.

  3. #3
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by New New York
    I think Donnie Walsh is one of the more reliable GM's in that he makes what he believes can happen actually come to fruition. Case in point he said he was confident he could trade contracts like Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford, and Jared Jefferies for expiring contracts and he was able to do that.

    He also said he was confident that he could land a Prized FA this summer and that too came to pass

    So when Donnie says he is confident he can land two #1 picks, his track record suggest that he is not pulling an Isiah and could make what he is saying happnen.

    But.........why wait if you feel this deal could go down?

    I suspect that the deals are Randolph to whoever for a #1 and the other one I think would be Tariaf to Orlando for a trade exception and a pick.

    The latter just being my opinion which comes with no insight beyond that of an average fan.

    But assuming these are the deals, why wait on getting them done? Even if we don't use them to acquire Melo, these are the types of chips you want a month before the trade deadline.

    two first rounders, 14.6 million in expiring contracts, plus players like Gallo, Wilson,Douglas and Feilds to dangle is a nice package to have to offer clubs...now of course not all in one package.


    Melo aside...lets look at how we can freak it.

    Lets take Orlando's later pick, plus Azzy's contract and Douglas, that lands a player Like Mayo.

    Curry's contract plus the early of the two picks lands Andre Iggy (not that Im all that sold) or Kaman.

    But if it is Melo we are after.....Both picks Curry's contract Gallo and Feilds gets that done....side note: I am totally against this trade and Carmelo trade talks all together, just trying show how we gain leverage by obtaining picks early.


    Point is....lets get the ball moving on getting these picks, because we know how much the can help us in improving our team...heck.....we could even use them for ourselves!
    I think a glaring quality that Walsh has and Isiah doesn't is his poker face. Walsh is cool under pressure while Isiah just caved. Isiah just gave the other team what they wanted no matter how it affect this organization and for how long; it was so dangerous to have blank checks at this man's disposal!
    Walsh has not shown his had yet because he doesn't have to. He is 100% aware of what is going on and where the Knicks are in the process. I think he will pull the trigger when he's ready and for the player(s) he wants. I remember listening to an interview with him during the off season about LaBron and right from the start he made it clear the LaBron was the goal but also he seemed to hint that he didn't think he was coming and that was OK with him because he had a game plan that allowed for audibles. Listening to him made me feel comfortable and assured. When Isiah would hint on a trade I remember my stomach turning and feeling like I had to go to the bathroom!! lol 100% true!! Can you imagine the moves Isiah would have made given the same situation? I shutter the thought!!
    I also think this is why they play Randolph sparingly; to keep him healthy and his value high.

  4. #4
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    Default I'm sure we aren't the only ones watching & waiting.

    Melo wants to come home. I'm sure Walsh had a reason why he said he can get 1 if not 2 1st round picks.(for Melo to hear & wait). But why talk and not act? The yankees played this game and lost a trade for Lee now look how that turned out. Everyone was sure he would sign as a free agent.
    Walsh should grab The pick or picks ASAP so Melo see's we want him. Talk is talk. He will keep stalling if he knows we have actually moved closer by getting picks Denver wants.
    I've heard he wants Billups to come with. Why is Felton seem untouchable? Denver is asking a lot but if we give 1 or 2 picks, Fields, Gallo & if needed Felton for Melo & Billups it should get done. But Walsh has to start by bringing in atleast 1 pick NOW. Melo, Stat, Chandler will be a force for years. Billups has something left.(what is left on his contract), people forget we were only renting Felton for 2 years. Yes he's looked good but 2 of the best PG's are available in 2012.
    We have looked good but it was only a matter of time before we hit a wall. Guys who were becoming attractive are starting to slip(Felton), before he slips to far add him if it gets The deal done. Nothing can be done unless Melo see's Walsh is working on something first. Everyone agrees we need another superstar.. if we lose this chance tell me who else is available and when? Go get the picks, get Melo before Stat gets burnt out.

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    so.. what happens if we get the picks and melo is not traded to us????

    we would look foolish..

    im sure walsh believe he can get more for "these" players than just a first round pick.. or walsh may think these guys have a future within the organization if we dont get melo..

    we cant trade turiaf now... we have no center and O'antoni will only playe STAT, Felton , etc extra minutes and shorten his rotation..

    not good..

    so he will keep these trade in his back pocket...

    A Orlando 1st round pick is gonna be like a 28th pick... 2 second rounder have more value than that..

    im not sure that Denver wants 1st rounders from elite teams..

    I repeat... melo is not signing with the NETS

  6. #6
    Superstar welcometonycity's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    I think what he's thinking is this: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Recent news is that Donnie Walsh can trade/will trade Anthony Randolph for a first round pick. Interesting to note though that trading Randolph for one pick can be equivalent to trading him for two, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. Here’s how:

    The Knicks cannot currently trade this year’s pick because Houston has the rights to their 2012 pick and according to the current collective bargaining agreement teams cannot trade future first round picks in consecutive years. Thus the Knicks cannot trade their 2011 pick or their 2013 pick.

    But if Donnie Walsh can get a 2012 pick in a trade for Randolph then that pick replaces the pick the Knicks owe to Houston and the Knicks can trade this year’s pick and their 2013 pick.

    Those picks could be useful in a trade for a star player…



    [Special thanks to [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] who sought clarification on this point from the esteemed Larry Coon.]

    ----------------------

    It's all a game of chicken right now. WALSH has many options; Randolph will be dealt. By no reason to act now b/c Carmelo is his #1 target.

    1) This is a weak draft class. No reason to fret if we lose a pick, which wouldn't be a top 10 anyway.

    2) I think we can all safely agree that Carmelo Anthony is better than Danillo Gallinari.

    3) If the only thing preventing having Felton-Melo-Chandler-Amare in your starting 5 is Landry Fields, then you have to trade the kid.

    The 4 players are almost like the perfect 4 for MD's SSOL system. All that's left is finding a SG and a C, along with a bench. Sure, that's not easy... But in the NBA today you cannot win with just 1 superstar.

    Fields and Gallo will never be superstars. Good players.. YES. But you can find role players a helluva lot easier than you can find game-changing superstars.

    Think of it this way, imagine what AMAR'E does for Chandler, Gallo, Fields. His presence alone make life easier for those 3 on the court. NOW, add Carmelo to the mix and imagine what that does for role players?

    Shawne Williams is not Gallo or Fields, but he's proving he could be a nice role player.... Giving you a 3-point threat and some points off the bench. Turiaf is a solid rotation big man.

    The big 4 plus these 2 is nice. We have Douglas for now. We'll find a backup PG after the season. Mozgov might take years to come around (if ever). BUT, we will find a big this summer, especially if we have Melo-Amare.

    All we need now is a starting SG. Get that and we can compete for a title. Seriously.

    I like Gallo and Fields. But NOBODY, not even diehard NYK fans, will believe this team has any hope to win a title next year with those 2.

    Sure, get me Mayo, Marc Gasol, Luke Ridnour and suddenly we are pretty good as well. Maybe even better than if we trade for Carmelo.

    BUT, remember that MD loves offense. The Knicks are built to win with offense. We have maybe the best scoring PF in the game. Why not bring in the best scoring SF, maybe even the best scorer in the NBA, to pair with STAT?

    If it happens... GREAT. If it doesn't... we move on and make those deals (such as ones you mention). BUt no reason to act until the time is right.
    Exactly. The only thing u didn't do was give Bill Walker some credit. He's coming around we can throw him in at the 2 if we land carmelo. Nd I'm telling you if we get those 2 picks we are getting carmelo. Make moves now for a player that said he wants to play here. Not dream about gasol or luke,or anyone else. I havnt heard them say **** about NY. Get the superstar that wants to play here NOW and let's f*ckin compete.

    1.Felton
    2.Walker/Williams
    3.Melo
    4.Chandler
    5.Stat
    Turiaf,Douglas,Walker/Williams..... Then all we need to do is upgrade the bench but that looks like 8 players right there too me and that's enough for D'ant. 2 superstars =elite . Idc how you guys analyze it.
    Last edited by welcometonycity; Jan 18, 2011 at 15:00. Reason: spelling

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by welcometonycity
    Exactly. The only thing u didn't do was give Bill Walker some credit. He's coming around we can throw him in at the 2 if we land carmelo. Nd I'm telling you if we get those 2 picks we are getting carmelo. Make moves now for a player that said he wants to play here. Not dream about gasol or luke,or anyone else. I havnt heard them say **** about NY. Get the superstar that wants to play here NOW and let's f*ckin compete.

    1.Felton
    2.Walker/Williams
    3.Melo
    4.Chandler
    5.Stat
    Turiaf,Douglas,Walker/Williams..... Then all we need to do is upgrade the bench but that looks like 8 players right there too me and that's enough for D'ant. 2 superstars =elite . Idc how you guys analyze it.
    Until we play LA, Orlando, The Heat, or any other team with legit big men. We get KILLED on the boards so Chandler at the 4 is not the answer; we need length along with the aestheticism... Walsh knows this as well a D'Antoni. That's why they are also looking at DeAndre Jordan from LA as well as Gasol from Memphis (although he's not my choice for this team).

  8. #8
    Superstar welcometonycity's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    Until we play LA, Orlando, The Heat, or any other team with legit big men. We get KILLED on the boards so Chandler at the 4 is not the answer; we need length along with the aestheticism... Walsh knows this as well a D'Antoni. That's why they are also looking at DeAndre Jordan from LA as well as Gasol from Memphis (although he's not my choice for this team).
    I totally agree. But wouldnt u wana get the superstar first??? I mean no matter what, talent will come with Melo. Point is people are going to want to come to New York after we get Melo. Like Dampier,Miller, Stackhouse etc in miami. Big will come eventually, but get Melo first! Also Harrington plays good D on bigs too if hes included. 2 superstars bro think about it. Thats 2 of the 10 best players in the Nba on 1 team. People are going to be open ALL DAY.
    Last edited by welcometonycity; Jan 18, 2011 at 17:27.

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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    AND... another reason why I'm not afraid to let Fields go... I want me soem Deshawn Stevenson. He plays solid defense and is shooting 45% from downtown. He's a free agent, and DAL wont have cap space to sign him. Maybe we can fit him in. He would be perfect SG to start with Felton-Chandler-Melo-STAT.

    If Azubuike cannot get back to form that is.

    Azu or Stevenson are perfect SG to replace Fields.

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    Originally Posted by mafra
    AND... another reason why I'm not afraid to let Fields go... I want me soem Deshawn Stevenson. He plays solid defense and is shooting 45% from downtown. He's a free agent, and DAL wont have cap space to sign him. Maybe we can fit him in. He would be perfect SG to start with Felton-Chandler-Melo-STAT.

    If Azubuike cannot get back to form that is.

    Azu or Stevenson are perfect SG to replace Fields.
    Any news on Azu?

  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Crazy8s
    Any news on Azu?
    A few weeks ago, HAHN (Newsday) reported that Azubuike is practicing and running in srimmages, but that he lacks the lift, lateral movement & quickness necessary to compete in the NBA. Coach D'antono also said he's not physically ready yet.

    I highly doubt he's ever ready to go this season. Even if he can get there physically, mentally he'll still lack any confidence in his knee.

    Heck, his career might be over.... He may never get back to where he was. BUT, if he can get there, he should be fine by September. Up to MD & Walsh to determine that.... OTHERWISE.... move on.

    If I don't get Carmelo... I trade Randolph to MIN and demand a 1st and Ridnour. Maybe toss in something else (Walker or Williams). THEN, use that pick in asign and trade with MEM to get Gasol. Then sign Stevenson to full MLE.

    Felton
    Stevenson
    Gallo
    Amar'e
    Gasol

    Chandler, Ridnour, Turiaf = main 8. Walker or Williams, Mozgov, Douglas round out the rotation. That's a solid, well-balanced team.


    BY THE WAY... Remember when Lebron tweeted about karma? well, karma is what has happened to LJ since that tweet (MIA 0-4). Here's something else from the post:
    Sports Illustrated reported that before Chris Paul 's infamous toast at Anthony's wedding, LeBron James made a crack to Anthony: "If you want any chance against us in Miami, you'd better team up with Stoud in New York."

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    AND, yahoo has an article up with a quote on Melo trade stuff from Wade. Apparently, he's gettind tired of all the news and says move on already. LOL. Sounds like he's pushing MELO to NJ, for he knows MIA is safe if MELO goes there. If Melo comes to the KNICKS... Heat know they are in trouble.

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