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Thread: These guys better wake the F up!

  1. #1
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Nyk Logo Our guys had better wake the F up!

    We're 22-18.

    We just lost to two sub .500 teams, one at home. Wtf..

    We need to play better.

    Houston is no picnic, then we'll have to meet Duncan and company on Friday and finally the narsty Westbrook/ Durant tandem.

    If we don't pick it up we could easily be looking at 22-21 and alot of yous will be pushing the panic button.

    Listen, we run that's all fine and good, i luv it & you all kno that, but we HAVE to give some kinda focused, consistent effort on D or we're going to lose. We need to be a team that can execute when we need to on defense and for stretches in games to go along w our scoring. If we can't do this, we're going to lose. We're not that good yet..

    We don't have to be the Bad Boys circa 89', but we have to give some kinda effort on the d-end.

    I'm sure that is all Mike D has been preaching since the loss yesterday..

    Oh, and Felton needs to play better dammit.

    Tomorrows game is facking important. And frankly I'M A LITTLE WORRIED.

    Okay... I'm done venting.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Jan 18, 2011 at 20:46. Reason: felt like it

  2. #2
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    As seen is the Suns game, our small line up is getting thwarted on mismatches. As soon as we lose Ronnie to an arthritic day off, we have to deal with salvaging fouls on STAT: hence Williams' fouling out against Phoenix.

    As soon as Amar'e's whistled for his first, we're pushing poop up a hill and there's not an opposing coach that doesn't expose it, either.

    Simple Solution:

    We can't continue to let Moz and AR rot on the bench. Even if each of them plays just 3-4-5-6 minutes for the sake of not only fouling, but slamming bodies on forwards defensively to allow rebounding opportunities for Landry, Wil, Gallo, Ray, Walker whoever's on.

    The offensive minded small line up we've been running at the end of quarters:

    1. Ray
    2. Douglas
    3. Landry/Walker
    4. Wilson and now no doubt Gallo
    5. Williams

    is beyond a liability. It has to be the - if not close to the - worst defensive line up in the league.

    Are we really going to run that defensive line up against SA, OKC even Houston in the next 3 games?

    It's gotta stop.

    That line up stays on the court for roughly 2-3 minutes twice a game. Can we not at least TRY a line up of:

    Ray
    Walker/Wil
    Wil/Gallo
    AR
    Mozgov

    ????. Can an offensive genius not construct a P&R, P&K or isolation offense with that line up twice a game for 3 minutes?

    The Gov and AR are not good players right now. But we're not asking them to be any more than defensive role players in that line up. Mozgov sets screens impeccably well, is extremely physical and blocks a shot here and there. Randolph rebounds at a high rate and can block shots as well. But that's all they need to do! Excluding them offensively isn't a big deal. We don't have to sacrifice any fluidity offensively. We just need to stop the ball and run a perimeter/iso/P&R/penetrate and kick offense for 3-4 minutes, twice a game.

    Is that not reasonable? Are they really that bad that they can't facilitate a simple role of fouls, rebounds, boxing out and setting non receiving picks for 3-4 minutes a game?

    I don't think so. We're wearing down our small rotation and teetering on hitting .500.

    That's my solution to the issue. What else are we gonna do?

  3. #3
    Veteran StEpHoN_mArBuRy's Avatar
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    We'll be back on track soon. Stat has let the team know he isn't happy with the complacency that seems to be settling in. Last time he spoke out we turned our season around. I expect a hard fought game tomorrow, but I also expect a win.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator RunningJumper's Avatar
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    Imagine Wilson Chandler throwing his shoe.

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    Superstar Sage's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy8s
    As seen is the Suns game, our small line up is getting thwarted on mismatches. As soon as we lose Ronnie to an arthritic day off, we have to deal with salvaging fouls on STAT: hence Williams' fouling out against Phoenix.

    As soon as Amar'e's whistled for his first, we're pushing poop up a hill and there's not an opposing coach that doesn't expose it, either.

    Simple Solution:

    We can't continue to let Moz and AR rot on the bench. Even if each of them plays just 3-4-5-6 minutes for the sake of not only fouling, but slamming bodies on forwards defensively to allow rebounding opportunities for Landry, Wil, Gallo, Ray, Walker whoever's on.

    The offensive minded small line up we've been running at the end of quarters:

    1. Ray
    2. Douglas
    3. Landry/Walker
    4. Wilson and now no doubt Gallo
    5. Williams

    is beyond a liability. It has to be the - if not close to the - worst defensive line up in the league.

    Are we really going to run that defensive line up against SA, OKC even Houston in the next 3 games?

    It's gotta stop.

    That line up stays on the court for roughly 2-3 minutes twice a game. Can we not at least TRY a line up of:

    Ray
    Walker/Wil
    Wil/Gallo
    AR
    Mozgov

    ????. Can an offensive genius not construct a P&R, P&K or isolation offense with that line up twice a game for 3 minutes?

    The Gov and AR are not good players right now. But we're not asking them to be any more than defensive role players in that line up. Mozgov sets screens impeccably well, is extremely physical and blocks a shot here and there. Randolph rebounds at a high rate and can block shots as well. But that's all they need to do! Excluding them offensively isn't a big deal. We don't have to sacrifice any fluidity offensively. We just need to stop the ball and run a perimeter/iso/P&R/penetrate and kick offense for 3-4 minutes, twice a game.

    Is that not reasonable? Are they really that bad that they can't facilitate a simple role of fouls, rebounds, boxing out and setting non receiving picks for 3-4 minutes a game?

    I don't think so. We're wearing down our small rotation and teetering on hitting .500.

    That's my solution to the issue. What else are we gonna do?
    Amen. You're right from start to finish. Ever since the Orlando game I have no idea why the Knicks don't give SOME minutes to Mozgov or Randolph, even if it's just to foul/be a presence/alter a shot/get ejected... well, maybe not get ejected. I don't care as long as they put the effort in, taking it strong to the hoop when they have the ball wouldn't hurt either.

    And again spot on about the small rotation, MD has got to find a way to get others in the rotation, worst case scenerio is Amar'e gets burned out or injured, and we're on the hook for 5 years. Gotta protect that investment at least a little.

  6. #6
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    We're 22-18.

    We just lost to two sub .500 teams, one at home. Wtf..

    We need to play better.

    Houston is no picnic, then we'll have to meet Duncan and company on Friday and finally the narsty Westbrook/ Durant tandem.

    If we don't pick it up we could easily be looking at 22-21 and alot of yous will be pushing the panic button.

    Listen, we run that's all fine and good, i luv it & you all kno that, but we HAVE to give some kinda focused, consistent effort on D or we're going to lose. We need to be a team that can execute when we need to on defense and for stretches in games to go along w our scoring. If we can't do this, we're going to lose. We're not that good yet..

    We don't have to be the Bad Boys circa 89', but we have to give some kinda effort on the d-end.

    I'm sure that is all Mike D has been preaching since the loss yesterday..

    Oh, and Felton needs to play better dammit.

    Tomorrows game is facking important. And frankly I'M A LITTLE WORRIED.

    Okay... I'm done venting.
    LMAO...
    Why didn't you attempt to figure out why what's happening happened?

    Hint: you saw the short-term effects of the MDA style & system... now your seeing the long-term effects. Hummmm

  7. #7
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy8s
    As seen is the Suns game, our small line up is getting thwarted on mismatches. As soon as we lose Ronnie to an arthritic day off, we have to deal with salvaging fouls on STAT: hence Williams' fouling out against Phoenix.

    As soon as Amar'e's whistled for his first, we're pushing poop up a hill and there's not an opposing coach that doesn't expose it, either.

    Simple Solution:

    We can't continue to let Moz and AR rot on the bench. Even if each of them plays just 3-4-5-6 minutes for the sake of not only fouling, but slamming bodies on forwards defensively to allow rebounding opportunities for Landry, Wil, Gallo, Ray, Walker whoever's on.

    The offensive minded small line up we've been running at the end of quarters:

    1. Ray
    2. Douglas
    3. Landry/Walker
    4. Wilson and now no doubt Gallo
    5. Williams

    is beyond a liability. It has to be the - if not close to the - worst defensive line up in the league.

    Are we really going to run that defensive line up against SA, OKC even Houston in the next 3 games?

    It's gotta stop.

    That line up stays on the court for roughly 2-3 minutes twice a game. Can we not at least TRY a line up of:

    Ray
    Walker/Wil
    Wil/Gallo
    AR
    Mozgov

    ????. Can an offensive genius not construct a P&R, P&K or isolation offense with that line up twice a game for 3 minutes?

    The Gov and AR are not good players right now. But we're not asking them to be any more than defensive role players in that line up. Mozgov sets screens impeccably well, is extremely physical and blocks a shot here and there. Randolph rebounds at a high rate and can block shots as well. But that's all they need to do! Excluding them offensively isn't a big deal. We don't have to sacrifice any fluidity offensively. We just need to stop the ball and run a perimeter/iso/P&R/penetrate and kick offense for 3-4 minutes, twice a game.

    Is that not reasonable? Are they really that bad that they can't facilitate a simple role of fouls, rebounds, boxing out and setting non receiving picks for 3-4 minutes a game?

    I don't think so. We're wearing down our small rotation and teetering on hitting .500.

    That's my solution to the issue. What else are we gonna do?

    I guess I couldn't blame coach if he played the Gov some. AR, I would rather not see at this point..

    The thing that concerns me is the lack of effort on D. But w the short rotation we're using I can see how we'd get that bi-product. It sux. I wish we had a better bench.

    Unfortunately we have guys llike AR and Moz, Rautins that Mike D doesn't feel comfortable w.

    But, he's gotta shake things up a bit. Play Moz if you have to i guess, smh.


    Originally Posted by Red
    LMAO...
    Why didn't you attempt to figure out why what's happening happened?

    Hint: you saw the short-term effects of the MDA style & system... now your seeing the long-term effects. Hummmm

    Lol, I realize perfectly well why we're starting to slip -- We're not that good.

    Our personnel, especially on the bench is not where we need it to be, which is forcing Coach to play a short rotation. This in turn is fatiguing our players, supposedly (not totally convinced).

    This is having a profound effect on Felton in particular as TD is just not adequate as a back up. We all know this.

    It's simple.

    But, what's Coach gonna do?? Unfortunately he's been sacrificing/ risking our best players for the sake of victories, which isn't the most prudent strategy. I can't blame him for it because it's been working until recently and he has us in the thick of things.

    Idk what the answer is.. Is it to play guys that can't be trusted like AR and Moz? Mason who just sux?? Or play a guy like Rautins who apparently isn't ready?

    Maybe this is the solution. Seems counterintuitive to me but hey...

    Listen, the key thing here is except Felton our guys minutes are normal. STAT has to give alot of effort on offense going against doubles and triples so I worry for him the most, and w Turiaf out he's basically on an island defensively. He needs help if this is what we're faced w.

    Coach needs to play another big other than Williams who can't handle guarding guys in the post, as we've seen w him fouling out mid-way I think through the fourth on Monday. I guess I would have to advocate we give Moz a bit of time. W no Turiaf you have to do something other than play Williams. Not that Moz will be much better, but lets atleast see again where he's at.

    If he's still where he was at the beginning of the season and AR is still inept and useless then we're facked w out Turiaf, basically. That's what it is.

    Also I think it's important to note that Mike D would not be coaching our big men, under most circumstances. I mean we do have Herb for that cause right??

    Question: What the hell is Herb doin w our bigmen, lol- smh???

    Bottom line is, this team is thin on the front line. We need more veteran front court players.

    When Turiaf is out there are no good options.

    One thing that is in our favor is that other than STAT, our team is young. We should be able to handle giving a concerted effort on D nightly even though we play small.

    This gets overlooked, but in the game against the Spurs we played great defense for periods thruout the contest. Guys rotations were sharp, everyone was talking and the team was just focused on keeping everything tight. That's what we need. This type of scrambling defense even w a smaller lineup is effective. Guys just need to commit to it.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Jan 19, 2011 at 10:07.

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    Forget D'Antonio for a second.
    Lets assume Walsh see's all that we see.
    He knows Felton needs a back-up.
    He knows we need a back to Amare.
    He knows we need a veteren defender.


    With that said there is Carmelo Anthony. He does not answer any of the above I know that. Today is January 19th. Walsh has 5 weeks to act. Right now if Walsh hears Anthony will NOT sign with the Nets then he will be aggressive in going to get Anthony. On the flip side as soon as it is confirmed Anthony WILL sign with the Nets I am sure Walsh will jump into action..

    Unlike Isiah Walsh is patient and knows what needs to be done. He is well aware of what our team is lacking but you can not be premature and make moves when there is a strong possibility you may be able to get one of the best NBA players and put him side by side with Carmelo.

    By 2/25 we will either have carmelo or for sure a new back up point guard and big man.

    sit tight....we waited this long whats another 5 weeks.

    Lets just be thankful we are where we are at this point in the season.


    after 2/24 we will have a better team then the one we have today.

    I personally expect Walker, Chandler, Douglas, Randolph, Turiaf , Fields will not be part of this team.

  9. #9
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    I think you guys are over looking the obvious and that is this Melo trade thing is affecting BOTH teams and all the possible players that are involved. We saw this last season when the Knicks were dumping players; once the trade deadline came and went, they started to get their game back. Heck, you have Detroit sitting Hamilton in case he is traded; insanity all over 1 player...

  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by Crazy8s
    As seen is the Suns game, our small line up is getting thwarted on mismatches. As soon as we lose Ronnie to an arthritic day off, we have to deal with salvaging fouls on STAT: hence Williams' fouling out against Phoenix.

    As soon as Amar'e's whistled for his first, we're pushing poop up a hill and there's not an opposing coach that doesn't expose it, either.

    Simple Solution:

    We can't continue to let Moz and AR rot on the bench. Even if each of them plays just 3-4-5-6 minutes for the sake of not only fouling, but slamming bodies on forwards defensively to allow rebounding opportunities for Landry, Wil, Gallo, Ray, Walker whoever's on.

    The offensive minded small line up we've been running at the end of quarters:

    1. Ray
    2. Douglas
    3. Landry/Walker
    4. Wilson and now no doubt Gallo
    5. Williams

    is beyond a liability. It has to be the - if not close to the - worst defensive line up in the league.

    Are we really going to run that defensive line up against SA, OKC even Houston in the next 3 games?

    It's gotta stop.

    That line up stays on the court for roughly 2-3 minutes twice a game. Can we not at least TRY a line up of:

    Ray
    Walker/Wil
    Wil/Gallo
    AR
    Mozgov

    ????. Can an offensive genius not construct a P&R, P&K or isolation offense with that line up twice a game for 3 minutes?

    The Gov and AR are not good players right now. But we're not asking them to be any more than defensive role players in that line up. Mozgov sets screens impeccably well, is extremely physical and blocks a shot here and there. Randolph rebounds at a high rate and can block shots as well. But that's all they need to do! Excluding them offensively isn't a big deal. We don't have to sacrifice any fluidity offensively. We just need to stop the ball and run a perimeter/iso/P&R/penetrate and kick offense for 3-4 minutes, twice a game.

    Is that not reasonable? Are they really that bad that they can't facilitate a simple role of fouls, rebounds, boxing out and setting non receiving picks for 3-4 minutes a game?

    I don't think so. We're wearing down our small rotation and teetering on hitting .500.

    That's my solution to the issue. What else are we gonna do?
    That's a pretty impeccable post. I think we will see Moz get more burn again. Also, I sense this spells doom for Turiaf's Knick career. Either traded for a pick (ORL eg), or we don't pick up his ~5M option, and thus pursue bigs tantamount to him more aggressively in the FA.

    In a perfect world, we can ink Glen Davis and Kirilienko in the off season for like 5M a piece, trade for Melo while relinquishing Chandler; and Moz throws Knick nation some mozel by becoming a steady 15min/game player by next season.

    I couldn't agree more that (situational) mismatches and not having enough expendable and/or quality backup bigs is what most often spells our doom.

    I'd also throw in STAT shouldering a superstar x2 role, where his dominant inside game is having to be combined with being a RuPau...Melo...like game finisher who ices and creates shots from the outside.

  11. #11
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    I guess I had good reason to be worried.

    Last night our perimeter guys couldn't keep them out of the paint consistently, especially Felton. Once our D broke down the rotation was poor. Parker hada field day. The times we did close down the paint, they managed to move the ball and hit shots. Fields played Ginobili okay.. Turiaf got abused by Duncan. Blair just seemed to have his way. On a night when STAT got 15 boards and Turiaf roped in 10, it seemed like the Spurs had most balls bounce their way.

    Whats up w Felton. He used to make timely jumpshots when it mattered. He used to be able to finish in the paint. The system can only carry you so far. He is merely a product of it. He is not making it his own.

    I liked Gallinari's aggression last night. He is so good off the dribble. He's shown his ability to get where he wants to on the court quite a bit this year. There was one play in the first quarter where he crossed-over Jefferson, got by him, then hit the help defender w a little inside-out dribble and got to the rim for a lay in. Idk if you guys know this, but flashes he gives like that are him just playing and not painfully thinking his way thru. He starting to have more moments like that because hes feeling more confident in what he can do overall, what he can get away w at this level. It is also very rare to see a 6'10'' kid be able to make moves like that while managing to keep to's down @ minimum. He has excellent body control when he makes his move. He keeps his off-shoulder and dribble low and uses his deceptive quickness to get around smaller players. He does have some drives tho where the defender does get over to help in time to cut him off, when he tries to flop and ends up losing the ball and going out of bounds or something. I'd like to see read the help off the dribble penetration,get to a spot and pull up for a short jumper, especially when he's got a smaller guy on him. In this situation he could utilize the pumpfake to dupe guys and draw fouls also. This will come in time though.. Were you guys paying attention in the 1st quarter of the Houston game when he broke either Battier, Chuck Hayes (I can't remember who it was) or Scola off w another shamgod dribble? Just out of nowhere! It was his first touch in the game. So exciting! I will continue to have high hopes for Gallo.. He's going to IMO be something special and help us greatly.

    Back to the team.. I think we'll win against Durant and company to stop the skid. We're learning how to adjust our strategy slightly as teams have adjusted to us. We'll get there. We just need to execute and hit our shots. We also need to play better perimeter defense to keep guys out of the paint and our rotations need to be alot better. I think we're okay though. We showed some signs last night even though we took the L.

    I still believe in this team.

  12. #12
    Member BleedOrange&Blue's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    I think you guys are over looking the obvious and that is this Melo trade thing is affecting BOTH teams and all the possible players that are involved. We saw this last season when the Knicks were dumping players; once the trade deadline came and went, they started to get their game back. Heck, you have Detroit sitting Hamilton in case he is traded; insanity all over 1 player...
    exactly. You also have to consider this team is wearing down. Felton is pulling a duhon as he is not used to this system and is breaking down. Gallo and Wilson are slowing down and Landry Fields is just a rook, so everybody needs to stop hitting the panic button, there are real reasons behind the slippage and talent and lineups has nothing to do wit it. Giving guys like Movgov and AR a sot isn't solving $hit.

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