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Thread: Knicks @ Thunder - Sat Jan 22

  1. #121
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    it's just that you believe D'antoni can win in the NBA, and it drives some of us nuts. MD may know how to win in Europe but he'll never win in the NBA.

    Tonight he couldn't even win with offense. We lost b/c coach sat there and watched Felton implode, b/c that's the only offense MD is capable of.

    You think Larry Brown lets that happen?

    Not a knock on you, I'm just tired of MD. We all agreed he got a pass the last 2 years b/c the position Walsh put him in. but he will be judged on this season... and right now... despite having an MVP candidate... The Knicks are 22-21, and will most likely be under .500 after we play DAL (2-04).


    He'll never win in the NBA..??

    I guess your crystal ball told you that too. Anything can happen brah. That's why we watch sports.

    Coach needs pieces.. We all kno this. That said, I share your expectations for the team this year.

    Part of Mike D's philospophy as a coach is not to call a timeout in that situation, so i'm not surprised at all that he didn't. Felton understands what coach wants at the end of games. Coach trusts Felton to take the shot at the end of games. Felt thought he could make it. He failed.

    I think w this team you have to think about tweaking things slightly. Felton ain't Nash. Maybe it's smarter to manage Felt more by calling a TO and directing the offense. Coach is stuck in his ways though and it caught up w him tnite.

    Look, 9 times out of 10 Coach will trust a PG like Felton, a real PG, to make a decision at the end of the game. That's the reality.

    So a lot of the responsibility has to go on Felton shoulders. He has to know he's not going well and trust either Gallo or Amare to take that shot. He was a dumbass tnite.

  2. #122
    Member Arod2k9's Avatar
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    We gave up 57 rebs including 22 off and still no Moz and AR. Still no expanded rotation, MD has to go. Why not dump the ball to one of our bigs and run some shot clock in the fourth qtr? I'm sorry but this system is perfect to blow fourth quarter leads. I swear Raymond Felton is the ugliest basketball player I have ever seen. He makes everything look so unnatural!

  3. #123
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    He'll never win in the NBA..??

    I guess your crystal ball told you that too. Anything can happen brah. That's why we watch sports.

    Coach needs pieces.. We all kno this. That said, I share your expectations for the team this year.

    Part of Mike D's philospophy as a coach is not to call a timeout in that situation, so i'm not surprised at all that he didn't. Felton understands what coach wants at the end of games. Coach trusts Felton to take the shot at the end of games. Felt thought he could make it. He failed.

    I think w this team you have to think about tweaking things slightly. Felton ain't Nash. Maybe it's smarter to manage Felt more by calling a TO and directing the offense. Coach is stuck in his ways though and it caught up w him tnite.

    Look, 9 times out of 10 Coach will trust a PG like Felton, a real PG, to make a decision at the end of the game. That's the reality.

    So a lot of the responsibility has to go on Felton shoulders. He has to know he's not going well and trust either Gallo or Amare to take that shot. He was a dumbass tnite.
    I'm not sure if you watched the game tonight... TWICE in the final 100 seconds Knicks called a timeout. Felton missed a 3 pointer after the first TO, then Felton missed the layup after the next one.

    Look. Players win/lose, and Felton-Amare lost this one tonight.

    But I have follwed Knicks since 1978 and have watched the NBA for over 30 years.... MD system will not win in the NBA today, especially in the playoffs when the game gets physical and morphs into a halfcourt game.

    It's like trying to run the option and win in the NFL. You win in the NBA with SIZE. You win with defense. If you think you'll win by shooting the ball, you're never going to win. Why do you think LAK & BOS are in it every year? THEY HAVE SIZE, they play DEFENSE.

    Even if we get Carmelo, we will not win unless we get SIZE and play DEFENSE. This is why MD was a loser in DEN. He lucked out by getting Nash to run his system... even then he could never beat a team when they had size.

    Size does matter. It's why they drafted Gallo over Gordon.

  4. #124
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    I'm not sure if you watched the game tonight... TWICE in the final 100 seconds Knicks called a timeout. Felton missed a 3 pointer after the first TO, then Felton missed the layup after the next one.

    Look. Players win/lose, and Felton-Amare lost this one tonight.

    But I have follwed Knicks since 1978 and have watched the NBA for over 30 years.... MD system will not win in the NBA today, especially in the playoffs when the game gets physical and morphs into a halfcourt game.

    It's like trying to run the option and win in the NFL. You win in the NBA with SIZE. You win with defense. If you think you'll win by shooting the ball, you're never going to win. Why do you think LAK & BOS are in it every year? THEY HAVE SIZE, they play DEFENSE.

    Even if we get Carmelo, we will not win unless we get SIZE and play DEFENSE. This is why MD was a loser in DEN. He lucked out by getting Nash to run his system... even then he could never beat a team when they had size.

    Size does matter. It's why they drafted Gallo over Gordon.
    No dude. There was only one timeout called by D'ant in the final minute. After Westbrook made one FT all Coach did was call a play from the side-- no timeout. He let Felt bring it up and we kno what happened from there. I was positive, but I backed up the dvr to be sure. You're wrong. Brooks called 2 timeouts in the final min, including the one where he drew up the game winner. Maybe you're confused.

    Did YOU watch the game??

    Anyway, I've been watching the basketball for 20 yrs and I'm not prepared to say you cant win in an unconventional fashion. Maybe you can't have a dynasty w a nontraditional style, but I think winning it all is possible.

    To me if our execution is good enough on offense and we have the players teams won't be able to stop us. Combine that w timely defense and I suspect that can be a formula for victory in the playoffs.

    To judge this team's style while its in a nascent state is unwise. We will get significantly better w future additions/ changes. Stay tuned..

    *edit* You did say the final 100 sec. Got confused and thought you were talking about the final minute. Turiaf did call a twenty at about 1:40.. But the last 100 sec has no relevancy to what I was saying about taking the last shot. None.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Jan 23, 2011 at 01:48.

  5. #125
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    No dude. There was only one timeout called by D'ant in the final minute. After Westbrook made the two FT's all Coach did was call a play from the side-- no timeout. He let Felt bring it up and we kno what happened from there. I was positive, but I backed up the dvr to be sure. You're wrong.

    Did you watch the game??

    Anyway, I've been watching the game for 20 yrs and I'm not prepared to say you cant win in an unconventional fashion. Maybe you can't have a dynasty w a nontraditional style, but I think winning it all is possible.

    To me if our execution is good enough on offense and we have the players teams won't be able to stop us. Combine that w timely defense and I suspect that can be a formula for victory in the playoffs.

    To judge this team's style while its in a nascent state is unwise. We will get significantly better w future additions/ changes. Stay tuned.
    Jump shots are low pct shots compared to points in the paint. Simple as that.

    ANd... by the way.... Knicks called a :20 second TO with 1:40 remaining. Felton missed the 3-pointer coming out of the TO.

    NY then took a full timeout with :39 seconds, then Felton missed a layup.

    Not sure how you don't understand we called 2 timeouts down the stretch. Your math is like MD who thinks a 3 pointer every 3 possessions is better than two 2 point buckets every 3 possessions.

  6. #126
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mafra
    Jump shots are low pct sghots compared to points in the paint. Simple as that.

    ANd... by the way.... Knicks called a :20 second TO with 1:40 remaining. Felton missed the 3-pointer coming out of the TO.

    NY then took a full timeout with :39 seconds, then Felton missed a layup.

    Not sure how you don't understand we called 2 timeouts down the stretch. Your math is like MD who thinks a 3 pointer every 3 possessions is better than two 2 point buckets every 3 possessions.
    Why are u bringing up Felton's missed three and layup when I'm trying to discuss the last shot he took smh?

    I talking about the final min and the stategy utilized at that point in the game by our coach. Mike D called only one timeout in the final minute.

    I don't see why you're bringing up his use of to's down the stretch when what I was talking about is Coach's philospophy in the final seconds. When the game is getting down to the last seconds he doesn't normally call timeout, which is exactly what happened before Felton took our last shot.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Jan 23, 2011 at 10:55. Reason: deleted some of it because repetitively making the same statement is useless if the guy your arguing w wont even argue to your point.

  7. #127
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    Chandler might just need some rest. Gallo would probably look that bad if it weren't for the injury time where he could rest a good amount.

    That's the danger of playing an 8 man rotation...your guys will wear down...it happens. I don't buy the trade rumors impacting Chandler, I bet he's just not used to playing this many minutes. Fields is a rookie so it could be the "rookie wall", but honestly Fields isn't playing too badly in the first place. He went 4-7 with 11 points which is...pretty good, and though his rebounding is down his shooting percentage is higher than it was in December so I'm not complaining.

    Edit: It seems as if Chandler played about this many minutes last year too, but I'm thinking he might be wearing out simply because, well, short rotation, and every player goes through a slump once in a while. Chandler's 3-point shot has been especially off in December but he'll get it back, probably just needs to take a few practices off here and there

  8. #128
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    Thumbs down 6 straight losses

    Like I mention in yesterday Game-Thread vs the Spurs..... Felton started
    the season off on his way to winning "the most improve players award".
    Felton's selfish act of wanting to be a scorer rather than a playmaking
    distributor is reminding me of Duhon first season with Dantoni.

    Both the Knicks & Nets had the ball with a one point lead and over 30
    something seconds left in their games tonight, but their selfish starting
    PG (Felton & Harris) had two offensive possesions to win the game.
    However, both teams loss from having no design play on either of their
    two time-outs. Their oponents PG-Westbrook and Kidd knew who to throw
    the ball to for the win with just one time-out.

    Ibaka & Collison came off the bench to add 20 something rebounds for the
    Thunder. While Dantoni is in his 9th season as a NBA headcoach with a
    career of never having a bench to rely on.
    Do Dantoni know how to coach a 2nd unit of players (10 players) for a
    82 game season?
    Dantoni's NBA coaching career has answered the question with a HELL-NO!

  9. #129
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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    Chandler might just need some rest. Gallo would probably look that bad if it weren't for the injury time where he could rest a good amount.

    That's the danger of playing an 8 man rotation...your guys will wear down...it happens. I don't buy the trade rumors impacting Chandler, I bet he's just not used to playing this many minutes. Fields is a rookie so it could be the "rookie wall", but honestly Fields isn't playing too badly in the first place. He went 4-7 with 11 points which is...pretty good, and though his rebounding is down his shooting percentage is higher than it was in December so I'm not complaining.

    Edit: It seems as if Chandler played about this many minutes last year too, but I'm thinking he might be wearing out simply because, well, short rotation, and every player goes through a slump once in a while. Chandler's 3-point shot has been especially off in December but he'll get it back, probably just needs to take a few practices off here and there
    Since Christmas the majority of teams over .500 has been using a 8+ man
    or 9+ man rotation of players to stay as far away from injuries as possible.

    Rookie Fields has been playing great as our SG, Dantoni's silly expectations
    of Fields averaging 7 rebounds per game while being our best defending guard
    is hillarious. If Dantoni would add Anthony Randolph athletic defense and
    rebounding to the rotation and stop playing this wide open peremeter
    offense with non-defensive players Gallo & S.Williams on every oponent
    without having AR in the middle to show adjustments in our system by having
    a shot-changer and an athletic rebounder (Anthony Randolph).
    Let another player bang-bodies in the paint besides Amare/Chandler/and Turiaf.
    This is the start of midseason...

  10. #130
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    knicks made shots but should have put the Thunder away a long time ago.

    The Knicks need someone to rebound the basketball.

    I feel like they don't know how to rebound except Fields.

    The only reason Anthony Randolph should get playing time would be to rebound the ball, since that's the only thing he is good at consistently.

  11. #131
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    knicks made shots but should have put the Thunder away a long time ago.

    The Knicks need someone to rebound the basketball.

    I feel like they don't know how to rebound except Fields.

    The only reason Anthony Randolph should get playing time would be to rebound the ball, since that's the only thing he is good at consistently.

    The lack of attention to defense gets all the press, but D'antoni's insistence to play small ball is equally as offensive. It just wont work in the NBA. It's like wanting a starting rotation with SPs who throw 88 mph but possess outstanding control. It's like winning in the NFL with a game-manager as your QB.

    In theory you can make an argument, but in practice it never works.

    This is why I have little hope even if we have Carmelo... We wont win playing with a frontcourt of Melo-CHandler-Amar'e. AND, D'antoni can't win in the playoffs, especially in the HEAT vs ORL-BOS-MIA, b/c he cannot coach a halfcourt game. Post season is all about who can execute in the halfcourt, and teams that thrive in the paint ALWAYS beat teams that rely on jump shots.

    SO, if we get Carmelo... We will win 50+ games every year, probably even 60 one year. We'll win in the first round... BUt that's about it. A conference finals or two, but we'll lose to MIA every year. Their defense, and the fact they'll a much better halfcourt team equals more misery for NYK fans. Like the mid 90s all over again.

  12. #132
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    Default Offensive Bored

    22 offensive rebounds for OKC. that is disgusting. that's how we lost the game tonite, not just lameness on Feltip's final 3 possessions. Obaka kept getting key 2nd chances, down to the final minute.

    Feltip started well dishing and diming, and then what? PG ego? PG coach?
    excellent game from Gallo all around, one of his best. SMH how the godfather chose to take his hot hand out in key situations, just another example of Antoni's overall coaching failure as a substitution-meister.

    Bill Walker also kept us in game with clutch shots, but Shawn Williams' presence was barely felt.

    Tony Chill with a decent game, but 3 dimes in 30 minutes? 1 assist per 10 minutes? c'mon!!

    Fields started well, but disappeared behind the rookie wall...

    what's happened to Chandler? as soon as Walsh says he's going to resign him, his game goes south. he fires his agent he's had since college? what a prick! combine that with going back to the bench, and he becomes a total headcase who forgets how to drive and thrive, or set up for 3's. He took some horrendous shots tonite, and did not deserve to play. I actually give props to coach mustachio for playing Walker more and Chandler less, but that's what you get for benching Weedson.

    Another game where the SSOL was not a factor in determining outcome, this game was lost on the boards, and part of basketball is knowing how to box out, that is a defensive concern that needs to be taught en masse by a defensive-savvy or asst coach, and it's not being done. DLEE had the mind to get those bounds, now we've got 4 guys looking at the basket while Westbrook, Obaka, Krstic or Collison fly past them for the O-bound! LAME!

    I'd had it with KO members calling for better players to fit into the Antoni scheme, a real coach knows how to coach what he's got, play who he's got, and not just wait for someone to surprise him with their play, or wait for a trade for that special someone to fill in a gap.

    Really thought we had this game. Props to Durant for amazing shooting in 4Q and game winner.


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