View Poll Results: Which out of these star studded lineups, is the best?

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  • Magic Johnson, kareem abdul Jabbar, James Worthy, Kurt Rambis

    7 46.67%
  • Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Bill Walton

    1 6.67%
  • Michael Jordon, Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, John Paxon

    7 46.67%
  • Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Robert Horry

    0 0%
  • Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Derek Fisher

    0 0%
  • Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Rajo Rondo

    0 0%
  • LeBron James, James Wade, Chris Bosh

    0 0%
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Thread: Is the Knicks plan the right plan for the future?

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  1. #1
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Default Is the Knicks plan the right plan for the future?

    As the season has progressed and I have had a chance to really watch STAT, Felton and the rest of the team get to know each other and start to play their game, I'm not sure the "plan" is the really going to be as successful as we think or hope.
    It has become sheik to have multiple "stars" on a team to edge out your opponents but just putting stars together doesn't necessarily mean you will have a recipe for success!
    Let's look at why Boston, L.A. and Miami look so strong with their star studded teams and why N.Y. will fail if they follow suit with their current targeted players.
    Miami:
    Miami was able to put together 3 players that compliment each other because not only are they stars at their position they are not 1 dimensional players. Out of these 3 they have an anchor in James.
    King James - James, in my book is a clone of Magic Johnson. I know people like to compare him to Jordan but James is far more diverse than Jordan ever was. Like Johnson, James has phenomenal court vision and precision passing to compliment his dominance at his position. James, like Magic, is able to play multiple positions and dominate at them. In my time, Magic Johnson was the greatest player I have ever seen step foot on the court... And yes, better than Jordan all though Jordan was the most dominate position player I have ever seen. James is inching his way into the Magic Johnson stratosphere. While Wade, like Jordan, is a dominate position player. Wade is not at Jordan's level but if Jordan was an A++ player, Wade is a strong A. Like Jordan, Wade is an incredible finisher and can find his shot anywhere on the court. especially in crunch time. For the record, Jordon was a better passer than Wade but Wade has drastically improved his passing over the years. And finally Bosh... Bosh is not at the level of the other 2 but he is a solid shooting, versatile big man. While he is not the dominate player at his position, he is in the top 5; but more importantly is a perfect compliment to the other 2 on the court. He can distribute the ball like Wade and James and most of all, he is a TEAM player. That is the key to the success of the big three for Miami; they compliment each other, understand their roles and can work within a team concept.
    Same can be said for L.A. and Boston... All these teams have players that, while dominate at their position(s), they can play along side other stars and blend their games together to form an alliance and create a massive force.

    So, the Knicks feel in order to win they have to have 2-3 stars on the team. OK, maybe so but will they be able to blend together to create a single dominant entity?
    STAT, Melo and C3PO.... I say a resounding NO! The problem with this threesome is that they are exactly the same identical player in different bodies; nothing in their games that compliments or enhances the other guy. I can understand the lure of the three but when you really think about it, does their games blend together? Is the court big enough for them? All 3 players are at their best when they have the ball in their hands, creating their own shot and only distributing the ball when they feel like their is no other option, even though they will still try to get their shot when they are double and triple teamed.
    STAT is a dominate position player, Melo and Paul is as well but they are also dominate scorers that shoot first, second, third then maybe looks to pass... The exception is Paul, he will shoot first and second then pass.... Maybe the Tandem of STAT and Paul might be a fit but I just don't see these 3 guys blending together and forming the cohesion that James, Wade and Bosh Or Kobe and Gasol or Pierce, Garnett and Allen has...
    Do you?
    Last edited by hometheaterguy; Jan 23, 2011 at 08:15.

  2. #2
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    Nothing about Cp3, Amare, Melo compliments each other? Same player in different bodies? Wade and Lebron as perfect compliments to one another?

    I'm stunned. Maybe I'm just tired from being up since 7 w my puppy, but...W.T.F.

    Cp3 is the ultimate passing facilitator w vision, as well as potent outside shooting and efficiency and defence. Makes everyone better and orchestrates to bring out the best of everyone.

    Amare is the ultimate inside force you can feed to, commanding 2x teams, ice games from the inside, but still w a good enough mid range shot to punish, especially if there is a second scorer who can penetrate and wreck some havoc himself.

    Melo is the ultimate versatile scorer, who can create a shot at will and ice games from the outside. Command 2x teams.

    Jesus, lol. We likely won't get all three but itd be by far the best trio, n best team in the leauge.

    If we get one of the two we'll likely be bigtime contenders next year w a couple shrewd moves.

    Unreal thread!

  3. #3
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by iSaYughh


    Nothing about Cp3, Amare, Melo compliments each other? Same player in different bodies? Wade and Lebron as perfect compliments to one another?

    I'm stunned. Maybe I'm just tired from being up since 7 w my puppy, but...W.T.F.

    Cp3 is the ultimate passing facilitator w vision, as well as potent outside shooting and efficiency and defence. Makes everyone better and orchestrates to bring out the best of everyone.

    Amare is the ultimate inside force you can feed to, commanding 2x teams, ice games from the inside, but still w a good enough mid range shot to punish, especially if there is a second scorer who can penetrate and wreck some havoc himself.

    Melo is the ultimate versatile scorer, who can create a shot at will and ice games from the outside. Command 2x teams.

    Jesus, lol. We likely won't get all three but itd be by far the best trio, n best team in the leauge.

    If we get one of the two we'll likely be bigtime contenders next year w a couple shrewd moves.

    Unreal thread!
    STAT is a dominate big man that can make his own shot. Now, this stage in his career he is starting to pass the ball more but he still forces shots. STAT isn't a great defender but his athletic ability affords him the ability too make up for that deficiency in blocked shots and rebounding.
    I have been watching Melo and Paul on my NBA subscription and Melo is a selfish player! He holds onto the ball way too much but it's ok since he is a dominate scorer. He doesn't play any defense but but can rip down some boards. Paul, again is a dominate scorer at his position. Out of the 3 he is the best floor general. He does have superior passing skills but they usually take a back seat to his scoring prowess. Have you watched these guys play regularly?
    Like I said, STAT and Paul might be the best option with some very good position players surrounding them. But STAT and MELO have the same exact game... They have the same inclinations and instincts.
    Miami's 3 are all versatile players that are equally in their comfort zone scoring, defending and passing.
    That's the other key as well... Boston, Miami, LA all play DEFENSE!!!! Their guys are capable of defending their positions.... We try to out score our opponents; hence Chandler's and Felton's numbers are bloated...
    Listen, it would be exciting to see these 3 guys on the team but in the end, I don't think they would be able to beat Miami, Boston or LA. Also as of today... Boston is aging and they are at the crest....

  4. #4
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Question Mark

    First you say Magic was better than Jordan which I
    had to shake my head at.. Magic was more versatile, but he wasn't better. Jordan ultimately was the more complete player even as a scorer because he was the better defender, athelete and he was the greatest, most creative dominant scorer in history. Jordan could also facilitate extremely well. He's better than everybody my dude..

    Then you have the audacity to say CP3 wouldn't compliment Melo and Amare. Bro CP3 as a great true PG is the ultimate complimentary player. If we got him to go along w the other two, he would be the fuel that would keep the thing running on all cylinders. It would be unbelievable to have CP3 to go along w Melo and Amare and we absolutely would be on par, if not better than the elite teams.

    The reason why great players can often make it work on the same team, is because they have a way of taking heat off of one another that helps them to form a bond/ trust relationship because they know the can count on each other. It's not like playing w roleplayer in this regard. Jordan had it w Pippen. Magic had it w Worthy and Kareem. Stockton w Malone, etc..The big three and Miami are developing this bond.

    When judging how the dynamic will work between players of a high caliber this is the factor often overlooked. Great players find ways to compliment other great players easiest because there's more flexibility due to the fact they can do more and because they can do what they do better than most players. Our big three, should it come to pass, would own in unreal fashion for this reason alone.

    The biggest reason Melo would compliment Amare well is because he would "take heat" off as teams couldn't double him nearly as often. This would free Amare up, which we know he would luv because he's unguardable 1:1. He would feast. Melo would have the same luxury. Both players would be liberated to dominate at their positions. Then you throw CP3 in the mix and things get scary to teams as you can't shut the lane down cause almost all of the defenders have to stay at home. Add in p & r dominance 'tween Amare and Paul and it would just be insane. We're talking dynasty here bro. We'd be on that level.

    HTG you might have gone to far w this one. There are some real probs in the original post.. Teams have been lumping stars together only since forever.. Our Championship Knicks team had Clyde, Monroe, Reed.. Common dude.

    I can't get over what you said about CP3.. One dimensional whoa.

    For my last point, I'll just beg the question:

    It you can't put stars together, who can you put together?
    Last edited by ronoranina; Jan 23, 2011 at 17:08.

  5. #5
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Disgustingly, I voted Bulls.

    6 chips to the Lakers 5. Rodman deserves a mention as an alternate option. Big part of 72-10 season.

    Aside from this, I agree with very little on this thread, but each to their own.

  6. #6
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    First you say Magic was better than Jordan which I
    had to shake my head at.. Magic was more versatile, but he wasn't better. Jordan ultimately was the more complete player even as a scorer because he was the better defender, athelete and he was the greatest, most creative dominant scorer in history. Jordan could also facilitate extremely well. He's better than everybody my dude..

    Then you have the audacity to say CP3 wouldn't compliment Melo and Amare. Bro CP3 as a great true PG is the ultimate complimentary player. If we got him to go along w the other two, he would be the fuel that would keep the thing running on all cylinders. It would be unbelievable to have CP3 to go along w Melo and Amare and we absolutely would be on par, if not better than the elite teams.

    The reason why great players can often make it work on the same team, is because they have a way of taking heat off of one another that helps them to form a bond/ trust relationship because they know the can count on one another. It's not like pilaying w roleplayer in this regard. Jordan had it w Pippen. Magic had it w Worthy and Kareem. Stockton w Malone, etc..The big three and Miami are developing this bond.

    When judging how the dynamic will work between players of a high caliber this is the factor often overlooked. Great players find ways to compliment other great players easiest because there's more flexibility due to the fact they can do more and because they can do what they do better than most players. Our big three, should it come to pass, would own in unreal fashion for this reason alone.

    The biggest reason Melo would compliment Amare well is because he would "take heat" off as teams couldn't double him nearly as often. This would free Amare up to go one on one, which we know he would luv because he's unguardable 1:1. He would feast. Melo would have the same luxury. Both players would be liberated to dominate at their positions. Then you throw CP3 in the mix and things get scary to teams because then you can't shut the lane down cause almost everybody has to stay at home. Add in p & r dominance 'tween Amare and Paul and it would just be insane. We're talking dynasty here bro. We'd be on that level.

    HTG you might have gone to far w this one. There are some real probs in the original post.. Teams have been lumping stars together only since forever.. Our Championship Knicks team had Clyde, Monroe, Reed.. Common dude.

    I can't get over what you said about CP3.. One dimensional whoa.

    For my last point, I'll just beg the question:

    It you can't put stars together, who can you put together?


    OK, a couple of things..
    1) Magic Johnson was the greatest player I have seen with my own eyes walk onto the court... PERIOD! I watched this 6' 9" player dominate at the 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5!!! Magic Johnson could do everything and everything he did was phenomenal. Did you watch him play? Imagine if he didn't get sick!! He still had many years left in him and HIV cut his career short... God knows what his stats would have been or how many more championships he would of helped the Lakers win.
    2) Yes, Jordan was a game changer. He changed the guard position and like Johnson forced teams to change their defense solely based on their games. I'm not going to go tit for tat with you on this since it is like splitting hairs then trying to split them again but for my money... Magic was #1 and Jordan 1a... What I see with James, if he stays on course, he will be 1aa.. I mean these will be the upper layer of the upper stratosphere of elite players.
    Now my Dad would say that Wilt Chamberlain was the greatest player he ever saw with Magic and Jordan tied for second...

    OK, now for your other comments:
    Paul and STAT is the best tandem you can put together... I said that Paul was a superior distributor but the games I watch with him, he is the dominate scorer..
    Look at John Paxon for example or even Nash... Paxon was fundamentally sound, was a great pure shooter and next to Magic Johnson, had the best court vision I have ever seen at the 1. He was a quarterback! He understood the game he played in, he knew the team format and he understood the floor. He made Malone the legend he became.

    Look, I know how good Melo is and how good Paul is, I'm just saying that their games are too similar to blend well, night in and out. I would rather the Knicks go after Paul, match him up with STAT and try to find very good position players to round out the roster...
    I know you are going to blast me on this but I would love the Knicks to put Odom next to STAT.. He is the type of player that would compliment STAT. He can defend, he can distribute and score.... He would not demand the ball from STAT, but help to facilitate STAT. I think we need a consistent 3 point/long range shooter flanking for the kick out... We also need solid guys... Like Fields that is just a solid, smart, well rounded player!
    What will help to "bleed off" the pressure from STAT is consistent outside shooting! Yes, a team needs other players too step up when someone is having an off game. But Boston and Miami are successful because their players PERFECTLY compliment each other.. Remember when they tried to bring in Wallace? He did not blend well at all because he is a selfish egotistical player. He was great with the Piston because he WAS the man! He had great position players surrounding him and the Pistons showed you just how far a well rounded, well coached team can go!

  7. #7
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    OK, a couple of things..
    1) Magic Johnson was the greatest player I have seen with my own eyes walk onto the court... PERIOD! I watched this 6' 9" player dominate at the 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5!!! Magic Johnson could do everything and everything he did was phenomenal. Did you watch him play? Imagine if he didn't get sick!! He still had many years left in him and HIV cut his career short... God knows what his stats would have been or how many more championships he would of helped the Lakers win.

    2) Yes, Jordan was a game changer. He changed the guard position and like Johnson forced teams to change their defense solely based on their games. I'm not going to go tit for tat with you on this since it is like splitting hairs then trying to split them again but for my money... Magic was #1 and Jordan 1a... What I see with James, if he stays on course, he will be 1aa.. I mean these will be the upper layer of the upper stratosphere of elite players.
    Now my Dad would say that Wilt Chamberlain was the greatest player he ever saw with Magic and Jordan tied for second...

    @ 1& 2

    My dude, Magic had Kareem, arguably the best if not top 3 centers ever, and Worthy. Jordan had Pippen, Horace grant is not on their level. If Jordan had Kareem, Worthy, Perkins he might have had like 9 titles. Magic, in the 80's, had better teams them Michael could ever dream of having. MJ won more w less. That's one reason why I consider him to be the better player. Other than Pippen, Michael had an aging Bill Cartwright, a very good spot up shooter John Paxon and the aforementioned Grant. This formula was repeated over the course of Michael's career and he ultimately won more titles (6 to 5)than Magic.

    Couple the above w Michael's astounding numbers and you can really see why many consider him the best of all time; a 30 ppg scoring average over the course of his career while shooting around 50% (unbelievable, freakish efficiency), averaging 5 reb and 5 assists while keeping to's low. His body of work is just perfection personified. He is above Magic. That is the consensus in most intelligent circles and the numbers along w how much he won are evidence of his legitimacy as the greatest. I can't believe I'm having to argue this on a NY forum. We're supposed to smart B-ball fans, lol...


    OK, now for your other comments:
    Paul and STAT is the best tandem you can put together... I said that Paul was a superior distributor but the games I watch with him, he is the dominate scorer..
    Look at John Paxon for example or even Nash... Paxon was fundamentally sound, was a great pure shooter and next to Magic Johnson, had the best court vision I have ever seen at the 1.Who are you talking about here?? Do you mean somebody else?? He was a quarterback! He understood the game he played in, he knew the team format and he understood the floor. He made Malone the legend he became. Oh you're talking about Stockton. NM

    Look, I know how good Melo is and how good Paul is, I'm just saying that their games are too similar to blend well, night in and out. This is just flat out wrong. Paul's game as a true, great pass-first PG shares nothing w Melo. Paul is a great scorer as well as a having all of the traits you want in a great PG ala Isiah Thomas. But make no mistake he's more concerned w setting up teammates than scoring. Melo is a scorer so you're not making sense. It's actually Melo and Amare that play similarly. I would rather the Knicks go after Paul, match him up with STAT and try to find very good position players to round out the roster...

    That's fair. Infact this is what I was advocating for in the summer. But, now having thought about this more, I've come to the conclusion that greatness is indispensable. Greatness also finds a way to complement greatness. If two or three great players are put together they act as a pressure release valves for each other. They free each other up. The cumulative effect of the damage they can do thus is increased because their effectiveness is increased due to teams not being able to focus too much one player.

    I know you are going to blast me on this but I would love the Knicks to put Odom next to STAT.. He is the type of player that would compliment STAT. He can defend, he can distribute and score.... He would not demand the ball from STAT, but help to facilitate STAT. I think we need a consistent 3 point/long range shooter flanking for the kick out... We also need solid guys... Like Fields that is just a solid, smart, well rounded player!
    What will help to "bleed off" the pressure from STAT is consistent outside shooting! Yes, a team needs other players too step up when someone is having an off game. But Boston and Miami are successful because their players PERFECTLY compliment each other.. Remember when they tried to bring in Wallace? He did not blend well at all because he is a selfish egotistical player. He was great with the Piston because he WAS the man! He had great position players surrounding him and the Pistons showed you just how far a well rounded, well coached team can go!
    Listen, having players that don't demand the ball like Odom and Fields is fine. But you need players that want the ball went it matters. Yes both Amare and Melo need the ball in their hands. The question is can they sacrifice having the ball whenever they want for the greater good, ie winning, like the Celtics big three and similar to what we see happening in Miami. All indications are that both Amare and Melo are serious about winning in NY so I'm not worried about them playing nice and sharing if they were to be situated together. They're also good friends so (Paul included) I suspect we have even less reason to worry about w regards to how they'd play together. I think it's safe to say they'd be good teammates to one another.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Jan 23, 2011 at 20:51.

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    If they are concern with the future

    1. They would not develop and start D-League players.

    2. They would find a way to keep their best talents instead of selling them off in favor for less skilled players.

    3. They will rest their players accordingly, so they will have energy when the game is on the line.

    4. They would put together a coaching staff that stresses both Offense and Defense.

    5. They would never allow the coaching staff to sign their kids to the team...especially when said kids ruin the teams chemistry.

  9. #9
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    Angry

    Originally Posted by Real NY Baller
    If they are concern with the future

    1. They would not develop and start D-League players.

    2. They would find a way to keep their best talents instead of selling them off in favor for less skilled players.

    3. They will rest their players accordingly, so they will have energy when the game is on the line.

    4. They would put together a coaching staff that stresses both Offense and Defense.

    5. They would never allow the coaching staff to sign their kids to the team...especially when said kids ruin the teams chemistry.

    Well, we all know u are mentioning Celebrity Coach Mike Damnphony

  10. #10
    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Real NY Baller
    If they are concern with the future

    1. They would not develop and start D-League players.

    2. They would find a way to keep their best talents instead of selling them off in favor for less skilled players.

    3. They will rest their players accordingly, so they will have energy when the game is on the line.

    4. They would put together a coaching staff that stresses both Offense and Defense.

    5. They would never allow the coaching staff to sign their kids to the team...especially when said kids ruin the teams chemistry.

    1) ???
    2) ???
    3) Most coaches in the NBA have a short bench; this is not solely done by D'Antoni and this is a practice though out history.
    4) This is a complete myth that D'Antoni doesn't stress defense; he has a different defensive philosophy than you probably think you want. I see that a lot in this forum that we associate good defense with a slow half court game but D'Antoni's defensive scheme is not too body up the players because that will slow down the tempo, he wants to allow them too shoot but try to disrupt their rhythm using rebounding and shot blocking. He believes that if you out rebound the other team and you have the edge in the scoring percentage, that will add up to a win. It's logical when you think about it, don't give up the offensive rebounds and score 1 more point than the opponent...
    5) Gallo is not his son but the son of a friend that he played hoops with in Europe. Gallo is though of highly within the NBA ranks, not in this forum though.. Every team needs someone like a Gallo, Turgolu or Peja... Have a big man with long range abilities is a very valuable asset. Now, if you want to argue that he shouldn't start and maybe his role is better suited as a 6th man I might agree with you.

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    Angry Try a better detergent

    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    1) ???
    2) ???
    3) Most coaches in the NBA have a short bench; this is not solely done by D'Antoni and this is a practice though out history.
    4) This is a complete myth that D'Antoni doesn't stress defense; he has a different defensive philosophy than you probably think you want. I see that a lot in this forum that we associate good defense with a slow half court game but D'Antoni's defensive scheme is not too body up the players because that will slow down the tempo, he wants to allow them too shoot but try to disrupt their rhythm using rebounding and shot blocking. He believes that if you out rebound the other team and you have the edge in the scoring percentage, that will add up to a win. It's logical when you think about it, don't give up the offensive rebounds and score 1 more point than the opponent...
    5) Gallo is not his son but the son of a friend that he played hoops with in Europe. Gallo is though of highly within the NBA ranks, not in this forum though.. Every team needs someone like a Gallo, Turgolu or Peja... Have a big man with long range abilities is a very valuable asset. Now, if you want to argue that he shouldn't start and maybe his role is better suited as a 6th man I might agree with you.

    3) losing coaches have a short rotation in the regular season.
    Short rotation are mainly used in a postseason series (7+ players).
    4) Its obvious as a ducks quack that Dantoni knows nothing about
    team-defense on the right side or left side of the court for players
    to switch teammates quickly. Dantoni dont teach that kind of coaching
    or else u wouldve seen it when he was coaching Big-Shaq, or within
    his 3rd season with the Knicks.
    5) Gallo never did anything off the bench to earned 33 minutes per game
    or the right to be a starter on the Knicks. It makes the Knicks franchise
    look bad b/c more than half of the players did not agree with Gallo playingtime
    & being a starter, so half of the roster was DNP throughout the season.
    The Knicks had to give Amare $100M guranteed contract b/c no superstar or
    star players wanted to be apart of such foolishness under Damnphony...

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