Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 28 of 28

Thread: True Shooting % for our Top Scorers

  1. #16
    Veteran petescud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,815
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    What happened to feed the hot gun.....you'd think we'd had learned this after Starks cost us a championship back in the 90's

  2. #17
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,668
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Originally Posted by iSaYughh
    Rono pointed out how there will be outliers (still quality, good players); but isnt the rest of the list pretty much filled w good, really good, or great players? I honestly don't recall off top of head, but similar stats have been broken down like that. Usually some outliers for unique circumstance, but then filled with a who's who of who you'd like on your team.

    There's a stat based on ts% that takes into account turnovers, too, which Gallo rates even higher on.

    Not a be all end all, but again shows Gallo's worth and possibilities.

    Summarily dismissing this stat, isn't much different than dismissing fg%; it's actually more accurate tho w less "outliers" who sneak onto top player lists, and more encompassing.

    Let's face it, statistics almost always suck and r so circumstantial and variable and dependent; even up a players' teammates.

    Stuff like ts% helps cut thru a lotta of that, and give a more accurate answer to the question: how good of an all around shot maker is he.

    Breaking down ts% lists by *position* is best, IMO.
    I didn't say to dismiss it as useless. I said it should be taken as a grain of salt.

    If we determine who should be the lead scorer by this stat only, Nene would be the #1 option on evry team in the league for the last 3 years. I have been a steadfast supporter of gallo, I think he gets a ton of unnecessary and unwarranted hate on this board. But we shouldn't take true% as the whole story so to speak because it is so subject to outliers.

    Just to make my point, other studs who have finished as league leaders in True Shooting %:

    Damon Jones
    Brian Cardinal
    Eddy Curry (!)
    Dikembe Mutombo (!!)
    Last edited by KBlack25; Jan 26, 2011 at 07:49.

  3. #18
    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    3,529
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    TS% is not for the fans. This and other variable statistics are for the purpose of deciding a players' worth in relation to a contract.

    We can clearly see by watching games who are good at what they do.

  4. #19
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,845
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    I didn't say to dismiss it as useless. I said it should be taken as a grain of salt.

    If we determine who should be the lead scorer by this stat only, Nene would be the #1 option on evry team in the league for the last 3 years. I have been a steadfast supporter of gallo, I think he gets a ton of unnecessary and unwarranted hate on this board. But we shouldn't take true% as the whole story so to speak because it is so subject to outliers.

    Just to make my point, other studs who have finished as league leaders in True Shooting %:

    Damon Jones
    Brian Cardinal
    Eddy Curry (!)
    Dikembe Mutombo (!!)
    I agree. My remark about dismissing it wasn't actully meant to be directed at you; tho it may have came off that way since it was an offshoot of me having quoted you (which I just did to mainly respond to the pt of "outliers").

    The guys you've mentioned, by n large, are bigs -- and really straight up 5s even. So sure you can't simply say a guy has a good ts and play it off as a gold standard indivituve of how good n refined a shooter/scorer they are.

    #1 ~= that it's better than #2.

    But remove bigs, or just centers even, and the list includes a bulk of highly skilled/excellent players/scorers.

    It's a general indicator encompassing value, n potential. Not a traditional absolute; eg 52% fg unequivocally better in the stat's metric than all below.

    Not that that is that complete since it doesn't reflect number of shots, types of shots, 3balls, etc.

  5. #20
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    county of the kings
    Posts
    1,120
    Rep Power
    8

    Nyk Logo

    Originally Posted by Knicksfansince92
    TS% True Shooting Percentage calculates what a player’s shooting percentage would be if we accounted for free throws and 3-pointers. True Shooting Percentage = (Total points x 50) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44)]

    Amare Stoudemire: 56.2 TS%
    Raymond Felton: 52.9 TS%
    Wilson Chandler: 55.9 TS%
    Danilo Gallinari: 60.3 TS%


    This is the most accurate way to judge a players efficiency as a scorer, much more accurate than fg% b/c it calculates free throws and 3 pointers into the equation.


    Maybe our 2Nd option should be Gallo instead of Felton or Wilson
    this is a joke....

    maybe gallo should be our first option..

    this is yet another "lets praise gallo" thread...im not hatin on him.. but he is not nearly as good as some people think....

    he should come up with a new dance.. The EuroFlop

  6. #21
    12th man
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Far far away from the orgy that consist of clyde, 8's, rady, smokes and rono
    Posts
    11,260
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally Posted by la2ny
    So let me get this str8, someone came up with another useless formula to tell us if someone can be a great and efficient scorer??

    I h8 these formulas in sports. It really leads to alot of battles over who had better stats, when the player might not have been better than over who you were arguing.
    Why is it useless?
    Why do you hate facts and truth?
    Why do you love to be ignorant?


    Anyway, this is a good thread.

    Gallo needs more shots and has to stop spotting up. He has an excellent ability in getting to the free throw line and we should utilize it. Gallo needs to develop a mid range and post game in the off season to get to Dirk level. Lets hope for it. Right now, Gallo is that 15 ppg long range shooter. Thats all we'll ever see.

  7. #22
    Superstar elcol's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    620
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Originally Posted by Knicksfansince92

    Maybe our 2Nd option should be Gallo instead of Felton or Wilson
    gallo's TS is high because he drives to the basket every time and draws fouls, it doesn't reflect anything else. is TS is bumped up because he is a good free throw shooter, you can't expect wilson or felton to have a higher TS because they don't get as many free throw attempts. you dont even account for the times that he EXPECTS to get fouled and then ends up throwing up an airball = turnover. the only guy on the team thats a legitimate option is amare, everyone else is not an option. we run plays and move the ball not isolation every time.

  8. #23
    Veteran la2ny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Compton,Ca
    Posts
    1,777
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Why is it useless?
    Why do you hate facts and truth?
    Why do you love to be ignorant?
    Dude plz stop. What im stating is, why is that every couple of years some stats junkie comes up with another formula out of thin air to prove a point to someone? Just like Hollinger came up w/ some formula to determine who's big 3 was better, Jordan-Pippen-Grant, Bryant-Gasol-Odom, James-Wade-Bosh, etc. Numbers do not tell the whole story is what im saying.

    I do not hate facts and truths. Kareem scored more points than Michael Jordan(FACT), but he's not a better scorer than Michael was(TRUTH).

    Im ignorant why??? Because I don't like a bogus statistic. lol. My dude I'm entitled 2 my own opinion.

    "opinions are like yesterdays, everybody has one"

  9. #24
    Veteran Knicksfansince92's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,012
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Originally Posted by elcol
    gallo's TS is high because he drives to the basket every time and draws fouls, it doesn't reflect anything else. is TS is bumped up because he is a good free throw shooter,.
    And can you tell me how this negatively affects our team or Gallo??? If anything this benefits us,our best freethrow shooter getting to the line at 6 times a game and hitting them at a high clip.Think about it if Gallo gets 5 touches on the basketball and he gets to the line 3 times and converts 1 three pointer he would have 9 points on 1FGA while putting the other team 2 fouls away from the bonus. Now let's say Felton takes 5 touches on the basketball and converts 3-3 on three pointer and misses the other two shots he will have 9 points on 3-5FGA and that's it. So why shouldn't Gallo have a higher TS than Felton?

    Originally Posted by elcol
    you can't expect wilson or felton to have a higher TS because they don't get as many free throw attempts.
    I don't expect them to, nor should they be our 2nd and 3rd option when it is obvious that Gallo is performing more efficiently.You are making it seem as if Gallo's penetrating and getting to the freethrow line is actually hurting the team when it is helping because besides Amare no one else draws fouls.

    Originally Posted by elcol
    you dont even account for the times that he EXPECTS to get fouled and then ends up throwing up an airball = turnover.
    Now you are trying to single little things out to find a fault because Gallo barely shoots air balls. However I do agree there are times he braces himself for contact doesn't get the call and misses the layup, but these are accounted for and count as a missed FG. Also even with these lapses in his game Gallo still perfomes at a higher clip than Wilson and Felton.

    Originally Posted by elcol
    the only guy on the team thats a legitimate option is amare, everyone else is not an option. we run plays and move the ball not isolation every time.
    This post confused me a bit, What are you trying to say is Amare a legit option because we iso him or is it because we run no plays for anyone else??
    However if you just take a simple look at the Game logs you will see besides Amare Gallo is out performing everyone else on the team in terms of scoring.

  10. #25
    12th man
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Far far away from the orgy that consist of clyde, 8's, rady, smokes and rono
    Posts
    11,260
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally Posted by la2ny
    Dude plz stop. What im stating is, why is that every couple of years some stats junkie comes up with another formula out of thin air to prove a point to someone? Just like Hollinger came up w/ some formula to determine who's big 3 was better, Jordan-Pippen-Grant, Bryant-Gasol-Odom, James-Wade-Bosh, etc. Numbers do not tell the whole story is what im saying.

    I do not hate facts and truths. Kareem scored more points than Michael Jordan(FACT), but he's not a better scorer than Michael was(TRUTH).

    Im ignorant why??? Because I don't like a bogus statistic. lol. My dude I'm entitled 2 my own opinion.

    "opinions are like yesterdays, everybody has one"
    Shut up.
    Your stating nothing.
    Stat junkies have more validity than you. You're not a professional. So stop trying to say whats right, especially since you're lacking the resources and info.

    I don't care what Hollinger does, but I'm sure he's more reliable than you.

    Statistics are VERY IMPORTANT and your opinion ISN',. Stats are not not only for sports; but also running a business and assessing and projecting trends that may harm or benefit your business. Formulas make life better, whether you want to deny or accept, it doesn't matter. Life moves on with you, and especially a bum like you. Go stuff your opinion in your mother's *****.

  11. #26
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2,792
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Statistics aren't the end-all-be-all of basketball but they give us an idea of how good a player is.

    A player who shoots at 48% and gets to the free throw line 5 times a game converting 80% of his FTA is far more effective than a player who shoots at 51% and gets to the free throw line only once a game converting 80% of his FTA.

    It's the same reason Allen Iverson was a good player in spite of his low shooting percentages. Getting to the free throw line is a hallmark of a good player, notice how the best players in recent years have gotten to the charity stripe at an insane rate (LeBitch, Wade, Carmelo, Kobe, Durant, Amar'e, etc.) Felton not being able to get to the free throw line definitely does make him a less effective player on offense than Gallinari if Felton doesn't convert enough of his shot attempts.

  12. #27
    Veteran Knicksfansince92's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,012
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    You can try to argue all you want but Gallo is becoming the 2nd most efficient player on our team besides STAT. He has had multiple games with 20+ points with lower than 12FGA while Wilson and Felton need at least 10FGA for 15-17pts.

    What else will you argue that FG% doesn't mean anything?

  13. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    90
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally Posted by la2ny

    Im ignorant why??? Because I don't like a bogus statistic. lol. My dude I'm entitled 2 my own opinion.
    Ignorant

    1. Lacking education or knowledge.
    2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
    3. Unaware or uninformed.

    1, 2 & 3 all apply to you. That is why he called you ignorant.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 25
    Last Post: May 28, 2009, 16:53
  2. Bing Shooting
    By TunerAddict in forum Hangout
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Apr 03, 2009, 14:14
  3. Christianity in 30 Seconds
    By KnicksFan4Realz in forum Hangout
    Replies: 425
    Last Post: Sep 19, 2008, 16:15
  4. Shooting motion
    By Starks_boy in forum NBA
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Jan 03, 2007, 14:48

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •