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  1. #1
    Veteran LeFlume's Avatar
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    Default Egypt

    Mr Prince

    What's going on in your beloved Egypt? It look scary dude..The governmnet can't fold they have to stand tall and many people will die because of that. Reminds me of Tiananmen Square massacre when the Chinese ran over students with Tanks.

    Internet and the mobile network have been shut down in the entire country. Scary

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    Yea, they buggin. Sad. Sign of the times though.

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    Enlightened OGKnickfan's Avatar
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    As some of you know I am a history teacher. I also studied Islamist movements (Radical Islam), while doing my master's in history.

    In Egypt, it's a very precarious situation, because, although Mubarak is essentially a dictator, the Islamists (i.e., Islamic fundamentalists), who want to institute theocracies, in most countries where they exist, would be a worse democratic replacement.

    An Islamic government in Egypt could result in the country becoming even more of a fertile ground for terrorists. In fact, the government itself could start to institute some of the policies, e.g., charging Jizya (a religious tax) to non-Muslims, currently pursued by terrorist groups like Jamaat Islamiya, Islamic Jihad (who assassinated the previous president), Takfir al-Hijra and the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Obama, along with his cabinet, has to be very careful not to trade support for the devil we know, when the devil we don't know could be al-qaeda's buddies.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    As some of you know I am a history teacher. I also studied Islamist movements (Radical Islam), while doing my master's in history.

    In Egypt, it's a very precarious situation, because, although Mubarak is essentially a dictator, the Islamists (i.e., Islamic fundamentalists), who want to institute theocracies, in most countries where they exist, would be a worse democratic replacement.

    An Islamic government in Egypt could result in the country becoming even more of a fertile ground for terrorists. In fact, the government itself could start to institute some of the policies, e.g., charging Jizya (a religious tax) to non-Muslims, currently pursued by terrorist groups like Jamaat Islamiya, Islamic Jihad (who assassinated the previous president), Takfir al-Hijra and the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Obama, along with his cabinet, has to be very careful not to trade support for the devil we know, when the devil we don't know could be al-qaeda's buddies.
    There is nothing anyone can do.

  5. #5
    Enlightened OGKnickfan's Avatar
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    You have to look at this from a historical, not a prophectic, perspective. Egypt is the countriy of origin for many political Islamist groups and movements. Sayidd Qutb, the Egyptian Islamist thinker, can be said to be the father of modern Islamic radical movements.

    Since the advent of his works, you have a variety of Islamist groups [in the country] that appeal primarily to impoverished young men, who have not, in spite of having completed multiple university degrees (in some case doctorates), found financial or personal success (i.e., marriage, which is requisite in many Islamic countries, including Egypt, in order for a man to have a female companion).

    If you watch video of the protests, you will see an almost exclusively young, male demographic. This sort of demographic was largely involved in the overthrow of the Shah in Iran and the establishment of an Islamic state [in that country].

    In fact, contrary to JW prophecy, regarding the downfall of support of religion, by world governments, that is supposed to precede Armageddon, the downfall of Mubarak will not bring an end to religion in Egypt. Rather, it will likely transform Egypt into an Islamic theocracy, like that of Saudi Arabia or Iran.

    This is why Obama needs to support Mubarak. Otherwise, Egyptians will suffer under a regime that will make the country a hostile environment for moderate Muslims.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    You have to look at this from a historical, not a prophectic, perspective. Egypt is the countriy of origin for many political Islamist groups and movements. Sayidd Qutb, the Egyptian Islamist thinker, can be said to be the father of modern Islamic radical movements.

    Since the advent of his works, you have a variety of Islamist groups [in the country] that appeal primarily to impoverished young men, who have not, in spite of having completed multiple university degrees (in some case doctorates), found financial or personal success (i.e., marriage, which is requisite in many Islamic countries, including Egypt, in order for a man to have a female companion).

    If you watch video of the protests, you will see an almost exclusively young, male demographic. This sort of demographic was largely involved in the overthrow of the Shah in Iran and the establishment of an Islamic state [in that country].

    In fact, contrary to JW prophecy, regarding the downfall of support of religion, by world governments, that is supposed to precede Armageddon, the downfall of Mubarak will not bring an end to religion in Egypt. Rather, it will likely transform Egypt into an Islamic theocracy, like that of Saudi Arabia or Iran.

    This is why Obama needs to support Mubarak. Otherwise, Egyptians will suffer under a regime that will make the country a hostile environment for moderate Muslims.
    But if the religious regime is ushered in, it will just be deemed another safe haven for radicals, as fast as the world is concerned. They already fear it.

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    It really inspiring to see people work together and help each other like that. Someone once told: "It's always in the worse situation that our best side manifest." This whole video reminded me of that. I got nothing but love for Egyptians and what they're doing for their country.

    God bless everyone in the world today...not just Egypt.

    Once people can realize that presidents do not make change in the world, and that nationalities don't matter...being a citizen is just a fail in itself, and its hidden code in being a slave to a flag.

    We're CIVILIANS of the earth...I'm saying that simply because its a complex thing to understand for those people conformed into their countries flag.

  8. #8
    The Knicks are Back DaTPRiNCE's Avatar
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    i love what i have been seeing for the past 13 days, aside from the 2 that were bought up with violence; but generally speaking it was amazing to watch seeing pictures of Coptic christians shielding the muslims as the prayed and vice-versa. we've shown unity and the will required to show a country that together in one loud voice all said "enough". its a dawn of a new day in egpyt the best is yet to come for the country.

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    I hope the Muslim Brotherhood gets a prominent part in the next government. The lads deserve it after all the injustices done to them. Mubarak is done and not even Obama could save his cheating arse. Heck not even their best allies the Israelis can now. The brotherhood is the next obvious step.

  10. #10
    Enlightened OGKnickfan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by th3realicon
    I hope the Muslim Brotherhood gets a prominent part in the next government. The lads deserve it after all the injustices done to them. Mubarak is done and not even Obama could save his cheating arse. Heck not even their best allies the Israelis can now. The brotherhood is the next obvious step.
    I studied political Islam extensively, as part of my master's degree in history. I know that the media has portrayed the MB, and other factions involved in this movement, as being harmless, so I understand why you say you would like the MB to obtain power. However, history proves this group to be a dangerous terrorist organization.

    Granted, the MB have some moderates, amongst their ranks, along with the bulk of extremists involved in running this organization. However, moderate and extremist elements in the MB all have one thing in common: rather than allowing people to practice religion within the context of community, they want to inject religion into all areas of life, through the obtaining of political power, thus the term "political Islam."

    Most of the Islamist groups in Sunni Islam sprang out of the MB and figures like Sayyd Qutb. These include Takfir, Jammat Islammya, etc. Their activities: persecuting religious minorities and Muslims they consider heretical, harassing people for breaking the various laws of Islam, killing tourists, politicians, like Egyptian President, Anwar Sadat (in 1980), etc., have gotten them arrested. Rightfully so, I am sure you would agree.

    In fact, it is important to note that the MB has often gotten leniency from the state (when compared how others are treated for similar crimes), since they have many members in high positions of power. They, and their actions, also have the support of many of the Muslim clerics that work at Al-Azhar, the prestigious, connected and powerful Egyptian Islamic university.

    So, rather than supporting terrorists, the West needs to encourage and support the secular and moderate elements of this movement, in my opinion.

  11. #11
    The Knicks are Back DaTPRiNCE's Avatar
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    sweet freedom step one is done now to complete the transition to democracy; we the best. the country is surreal right now. speaking to family in egypt their telling me they partied all last night loll.

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DaTPRiNCE
    i love what i have been seeing for the past 13 days, aside from the 2 that were bought up with violence; but generally speaking it was amazing to watch seeing pictures of Coptic christians shielding the muslims as the prayed and vice-versa. we've shown unity and the will required to show a country that together in one loud voice all said "enough". its a dawn of a new day in egpyt the best is yet to come for the country.
    They just have to pick a new leader very cautiously, bring back democracy in Egypt. You just don't want another crook to take over who is better than the last crook.

    its tough, who do you think should take over?

  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    They just have to pick a new leader very cautiously, bring back democracy in Egypt. You just don't want another crook to take over who is better than the last crook.

    its tough, who do you think should take over?
    yea their saying Mubarak has between 40-70 billion net-worth thats ridiculous loll.

    I dont know who should take over at the moment, some would say Souliman the newly appointed VP but he doesnt have any experience outside of military i would say Amr Moussa is the best option for the country if Mubarak was ousted before Sept. However i think thats very unlikely so i would say Mubarak stays till his term ends in september and he continues to work towards implementing a democracy till then as he's taken steps towards already. That allows possible candidates to show what they can offer the country and let the best option of the people win. But for an immediate switch from Mubarak if he's to be overthrown( highly unlikely ) is either ElBaradaei or Moussa; my choice being the latter

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    Funny you mentioned Qutb and failed to mention the fact that he was also murdered. I guess whoever dies from the hands of the people in charge is simply law and whoever dies from what we perceive as a terrorist is all of a sudden murdered.

    You also failed to mention that the MB openly embraced El Baradei who has no ties to the brotherhood.

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