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  1. #1
    Veteran LeFlume's Avatar
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    Default Egypt

    Mr Prince

    What's going on in your beloved Egypt? It look scary dude..The governmnet can't fold they have to stand tall and many people will die because of that. Reminds me of Tiananmen Square massacre when the Chinese ran over students with Tanks.

    Internet and the mobile network have been shut down in the entire country. Scary

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    Yea, they buggin. Sad. Sign of the times though.

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    Enlightened OGKnickfan's Avatar
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    As some of you know I am a history teacher. I also studied Islamist movements (Radical Islam), while doing my master's in history.

    In Egypt, it's a very precarious situation, because, although Mubarak is essentially a dictator, the Islamists (i.e., Islamic fundamentalists), who want to institute theocracies, in most countries where they exist, would be a worse democratic replacement.

    An Islamic government in Egypt could result in the country becoming even more of a fertile ground for terrorists. In fact, the government itself could start to institute some of the policies, e.g., charging Jizya (a religious tax) to non-Muslims, currently pursued by terrorist groups like Jamaat Islamiya, Islamic Jihad (who assassinated the previous president), Takfir al-Hijra and the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Obama, along with his cabinet, has to be very careful not to trade support for the devil we know, when the devil we don't know could be al-qaeda's buddies.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    As some of you know I am a history teacher. I also studied Islamist movements (Radical Islam), while doing my master's in history.

    In Egypt, it's a very precarious situation, because, although Mubarak is essentially a dictator, the Islamists (i.e., Islamic fundamentalists), who want to institute theocracies, in most countries where they exist, would be a worse democratic replacement.

    An Islamic government in Egypt could result in the country becoming even more of a fertile ground for terrorists. In fact, the government itself could start to institute some of the policies, e.g., charging Jizya (a religious tax) to non-Muslims, currently pursued by terrorist groups like Jamaat Islamiya, Islamic Jihad (who assassinated the previous president), Takfir al-Hijra and the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Obama, along with his cabinet, has to be very careful not to trade support for the devil we know, when the devil we don't know could be al-qaeda's buddies.
    There is nothing anyone can do.

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    You have to look at this from a historical, not a prophectic, perspective. Egypt is the countriy of origin for many political Islamist groups and movements. Sayidd Qutb, the Egyptian Islamist thinker, can be said to be the father of modern Islamic radical movements.

    Since the advent of his works, you have a variety of Islamist groups [in the country] that appeal primarily to impoverished young men, who have not, in spite of having completed multiple university degrees (in some case doctorates), found financial or personal success (i.e., marriage, which is requisite in many Islamic countries, including Egypt, in order for a man to have a female companion).

    If you watch video of the protests, you will see an almost exclusively young, male demographic. This sort of demographic was largely involved in the overthrow of the Shah in Iran and the establishment of an Islamic state [in that country].

    In fact, contrary to JW prophecy, regarding the downfall of support of religion, by world governments, that is supposed to precede Armageddon, the downfall of Mubarak will not bring an end to religion in Egypt. Rather, it will likely transform Egypt into an Islamic theocracy, like that of Saudi Arabia or Iran.

    This is why Obama needs to support Mubarak. Otherwise, Egyptians will suffer under a regime that will make the country a hostile environment for moderate Muslims.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    You have to look at this from a historical, not a prophectic, perspective. Egypt is the countriy of origin for many political Islamist groups and movements. Sayidd Qutb, the Egyptian Islamist thinker, can be said to be the father of modern Islamic radical movements.

    Since the advent of his works, you have a variety of Islamist groups [in the country] that appeal primarily to impoverished young men, who have not, in spite of having completed multiple university degrees (in some case doctorates), found financial or personal success (i.e., marriage, which is requisite in many Islamic countries, including Egypt, in order for a man to have a female companion).

    If you watch video of the protests, you will see an almost exclusively young, male demographic. This sort of demographic was largely involved in the overthrow of the Shah in Iran and the establishment of an Islamic state [in that country].

    In fact, contrary to JW prophecy, regarding the downfall of support of religion, by world governments, that is supposed to precede Armageddon, the downfall of Mubarak will not bring an end to religion in Egypt. Rather, it will likely transform Egypt into an Islamic theocracy, like that of Saudi Arabia or Iran.

    This is why Obama needs to support Mubarak. Otherwise, Egyptians will suffer under a regime that will make the country a hostile environment for moderate Muslims.
    But if the religious regime is ushered in, it will just be deemed another safe haven for radicals, as fast as the world is concerned. They already fear it.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    But if the religious regime is ushered in, it will just be deemed another safe haven for radicals, as fast as the world is concerned. They already fear it.
    BTW, I am not refuting your beliefs in my posts. I realized it may have come off that way. However, I am just trying to make clear that, in this instance, this movement would lead to the opposite of what I have heard JW's say they believe precedes Armageddon: this movement could lead to the Islamic religion (albeit a more radical strain) gaining a more firm hold on the country and its people.

    Typically, radicals appeal to religious pride, imagery of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the rightly-guided caliphs (the early leaders of the umma, the Islamic community), in order to gain power of movements that start off for more practical reasons (economic issues). They will tell these young men that an Islamic theocracy will provide peace and justice (economic and social).

    There is a high likelihood they will coopt the unrest visible in this movement, because they are so well organized and have infiltrated numerous sectors of Egyptian society.

    If you want to see how plugged-in Islamists are, read a bit about President Anwar Sadat's assassination. This man was the president of Egypt 30 years ago, prior to Mubarak's regime, and was assassinated by members of his own security detail, who were also affiliated with Egyptian Islamic Jihad (an Islamist group).

    These groups have a lot of power in the country, which is why they have received slaps on the wrist for actions like assassinating foreign tourists, harrassing (for the Koranic religious minority tax), kidnapping (particularly Christian girls for forced marriage) and killing Egyptian Christians, etc.

    An interesting story is JW's have been historically banned by Egypt (their buildings demolished and literature confiscated). This was started in the mid 60's, by the government, under advisement from Al-Azhar, the school for Muslim clergy and top religious authority, in the country. JWs aggressive spreading of its beliefs is likely why, since most Muslim countries do not allow conversion of Muslims and, in order to protect its members from conversion to Islam, the Coptic Church also prohibits the conversion of its members to Islam or any other faith.

    This should illustrate how much political sway the Islamic religion has in most Muslim countries (several are moderate on application of Islam). Any time there is a revolution, you should suspect a strong, organized, "connected," Islamist political component.

    The implications for the JW prediction that all religions, other than JWs' faith will fall, before the end, are huge, when one considers the power of political Islam.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    BTW, I am not refuting your beliefs in my posts. I realized it may have come off that way. However, I am just trying to make clear that, in this instance, this movement would lead to the opposite of what I have heard JW's say they believe precedes Armageddon: this movement could lead to the Islamic religion (albeit a more radical strain) gaining a more firm hold on the country and its people.

    Typically, radicals appeal to religious pride, imagery of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the rightly-guided caliphs (the early leaders of the umma, the Islamic community), in order to gain power of movements that start off for more practical reasons (economic issues). They will tell these young men that an Islamic theocracy will provide peace and justice (economic and social).

    There is a high likelihood they will coopt the unrest visible in this movement, because they are so well organized and have infiltrated numerous sectors of Egyptian society.

    If you want to see how plugged-in Islamists are, read a bit about President Anwar Sadat's assassination. This man was the president of Egypt 30 years ago, prior to Mubarak's regime, and was assassinated by members of his own security detail, who were also affiliated with Egyptian Islamic Jihad (an Islamist group).

    These groups have a lot of power in the country, which is why they have received slaps on the wrist for actions like assassinating foreign tourists, harrassing (for the Koranic religious minority tax), kidnapping (particularly Christian girls for forced marriage) and killing Egyptian Christians, etc.

    An interesting story is JW's have been historically banned by Egypt (their buildings demolished and literature confiscated). This was started in the mid 60's, by the government, under advisement from Al-Azhar, the school for Muslim clergy and top religious authority, in the country. JWs aggressive spreading of its beliefs is likely why, since most Muslim countries do not allow conversion of Muslims and, in order to protect its members from conversion to Islam, the Coptic Church also prohibits the conversion of its members to Islam or any other faith.

    This should illustrate how much political sway the Islamic religion has in most Muslim countries (several are moderate on application of Islam). Any time there is a revolution, you should suspect a strong, organized, "connected," Islamist political component.

    The implications for the JW prediction that all religions, other than JWs' faith will fall, before the end, are huge, when one considers the power of political Islam.
    Honestly, I don't feel this is per say abt my specific beliefs. As we engage more, i'm starting to see it's abt information, at least 70 % of the time with you, so I can respect that.

    We believe the UN is the image of the Beast, and the beast spoken of in revelations is the Anglo- American duel world power. The UN acts as it's unofficial mouth piece. And not only them, the other world powers.

    The image rev makes is that the governments will grow wiery of religion, which they have, to the point where they decide the world is best off without it. The more radical religion becomes, the more we draw closer to that point. Make no mistake, they are becoming increasingly aggitated by it. And events like these in Egyp just make it more so.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Honestly, I don't feel this is per say abt my specific beliefs. As we engage more, i'm starting to see it's abt information, at least 70 % of the time with you, so I can respect that.

    We believe the UN is the image of the Beast, and the beast spoken of in revelations is the Anglo- American duel world power. The UN acts as it's unofficial mouth piece. And not only them, the other world powers.

    The image rev makes is that the governments will grow wiery of religion, which they have, to the point where they decide the world is best off without it. The more radical religion becomes, the more we draw closer to that point. Make no mistake, they are becoming increasingly aggitated by it. And events like these in Egyp just make it more so.
    Definitely, I am a supporter of JW's and their right to practice their faith.

    I hope radical Islam, for Muslims' sake, fades away, as you believe it will, so that people can practice Islam as they see fit and not under the threat of the law. It is difficult to imagine, however. I guess we will have to wait and see.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Definitely, I am a supporter of JW's and their right to practice their faith.

    I hope radical Islam, for Muslims' sake, fades away, as you believe it will, so that people can practice Islam as they see fit and not under the threat of the law. It is difficult to imagine, however. I guess we will have to wait and see.
    As much as I believe in the bible, it is still tough to imagine a world without religion. The ramifications of the idea alone are mind boggling. As u said, we are all wait and see mode. Still sad to see whats happening in one of civilizations cornerstone's.

  11. #11
    The Knicks are Back DaTPRiNCE's Avatar
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    i hate how were still taking to the streets even after the Mubarak announced he's leaving in Sept. its already a win for us. we got what we wanted nows he's just bridging the transition. He's going to be working on fixing parliament and changing the constitution so that way a president cant hold power for 30 years at a time. Change is coming and anyone pushing for is ouster right now is stupid.

    Just so you guys know i've spoken to family over there and they tell me the country isnt like its made out to be, once Mubarak announced he's not running for reelection most of the country is back to work and all. its only small amounts around the country scattered here and there. Mainly Tahrir Square that has all the demonstrations but then again those are the unemployed people and those with nothing to do. but i do agree this needs to stop we need normalcy to kick in again.

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    It really inspiring to see people work together and help each other like that. Someone once told: "It's always in the worse situation that our best side manifest." This whole video reminded me of that. I got nothing but love for Egyptians and what they're doing for their country.

    God bless everyone in the world today...not just Egypt.

    Once people can realize that presidents do not make change in the world, and that nationalities don't matter...being a citizen is just a fail in itself, and its hidden code in being a slave to a flag.

    We're CIVILIANS of the earth...I'm saying that simply because its a complex thing to understand for those people conformed into their countries flag.

  13. #13
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    i love what i have been seeing for the past 13 days, aside from the 2 that were bought up with violence; but generally speaking it was amazing to watch seeing pictures of Coptic christians shielding the muslims as the prayed and vice-versa. we've shown unity and the will required to show a country that together in one loud voice all said "enough". its a dawn of a new day in egpyt the best is yet to come for the country.

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    I hope the Muslim Brotherhood gets a prominent part in the next government. The lads deserve it after all the injustices done to them. Mubarak is done and not even Obama could save his cheating arse. Heck not even their best allies the Israelis can now. The brotherhood is the next obvious step.

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    Originally Posted by DaTPRiNCE
    i love what i have been seeing for the past 13 days, aside from the 2 that were bought up with violence; but generally speaking it was amazing to watch seeing pictures of Coptic christians shielding the muslims as the prayed and vice-versa. we've shown unity and the will required to show a country that together in one loud voice all said "enough". its a dawn of a new day in egpyt the best is yet to come for the country.
    They just have to pick a new leader very cautiously, bring back democracy in Egypt. You just don't want another crook to take over who is better than the last crook.

    its tough, who do you think should take over?

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