Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 54

Thread: Do NOT Blow Up This Team for Melo

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,668
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Do NOT Blow Up This Team for Melo

    I know some of you are going to lose your **** over this but hear me out.

    If we give up Fields, Gallo, Chandler and Randolph for Melo, unless we get something else back, this team will be worse off than before. If we do that we are looking at either Williams or Douglas starting and playing a ton of minutes.

    The goal is not to get two superstars, ultimately. The goal is to win the title.

    Does anyone really think that Felton-Douglas-Melo-STAT-Mozgov (or Felton-Melo-Williams-STAT-Mozgov) with Turiaf, Williams (Douglas) and Roger Mason Jr. playing significant minutes competes for a title? I know we might be able to get people in free agency, but signing Melo to the max gives us no room or flexibility for the future, we have no 1st rounder in 2012 and no real ability to add anybody above the mid-level exception.

    We need DEPTH. The Pistons showed how to beat a team with a front-line of stacked superstars in that finals v. the Payton-Bryant-Malone-Shaq Lakers. They had a ton of different centers rotate in on Shaq, they were just the much fresher team overall and that team won the title with DEPTH. Felton-Melo-STAT is NOT Wade-LeBron-Bosh, that Miami team will still run us out of the building.

    Melo's defense also wouldn't really help us, he isn't that good defensively.

    I think we as fans clamor for stars, but the fact is getting two superstars just to have them isn't really all that great if the team can't compete. We wouldn't really be able to get D12 or CP3 in free agency because our flexibility would be killed, and we wouldn't trade for them because we would have just moved all expendable assets outside of Felton for Carmelo.

    Moving Fields-Gallo-Chandler-Randolph for Melo only might seem like a proper deal, but it really kills this teams depth and really hamstrings us for the future. IF in that deal we can get back someone like Ty Lawson (provides us with the backup, fast-paced PG we need) and Chris The Birdman Andersen (who will help solve our rebounding issues) then I might be able to be sold on the deal. But those four for Carmelo is going to hurt, and we won't be any closer to really competing for a title. I don't even think that lineup is good enough to crack the top 4 in the east (i.e. better than Chicago or Orlando).

    Our biggest asset right now is our depth. Gallo looks like he is becoming a very high-end 3rd option on a good team, and Fields does what we need him to on the boards, we get enough scoring elsewhere. Add Melo to play alongside those two, we have a true competitor. But blowing everything up for Melo, I guarantee, will not result in this team winning a title.

  2. #2
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    county of the kings
    Posts
    1,120
    Rep Power
    9

    Nyk Logo

    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    I know some of you are going to lose your **** over this but hear me out.

    If we give up Fields, Gallo, Chandler and Randolph for Melo, unless we get something else back, this team will be worse off than before. If we do that we are looking at either Williams or Douglas starting and playing a ton of minutes.

    The goal is not to get two superstars, ultimately. The goal is to win the title.

    Does anyone really think that Felton-Douglas-Melo-STAT-Mozgov (or Felton-Melo-Williams-STAT-Mozgov) with Turiaf, Williams (Douglas) and Roger Mason Jr. playing significant minutes competes for a title? I know we might be able to get people in free agency, but signing Melo to the max gives us no room or flexibility for the future, we have no 1st rounder in 2012 and no real ability to add anybody above the mid-level exception.

    We need DEPTH. The Pistons showed how to beat a team with a front-line of stacked superstars in that finals v. the Payton-Bryant-Malone-Shaq Lakers. They had a ton of different centers rotate in on Shaq, they were just the much fresher team overall and that team won the title with DEPTH. Felton-Melo-STAT is NOT Wade-LeBron-Bosh, that Miami team will still run us out of the building.

    Melo's defense also wouldn't really help us, he isn't that good defensively.

    I think we as fans clamor for stars, but the fact is getting two superstars just to have them isn't really all that great if the team can't compete. We wouldn't really be able to get D12 or CP3 in free agency because our flexibility would be killed, and we wouldn't trade for them because we would have just moved all expendable assets outside of Felton for Carmelo.

    Moving Fields-Gallo-Chandler-Randolph for Melo only might seem like a proper deal, but it really kills this teams depth and really hamstrings us for the future. IF in that deal we can get back someone like Ty Lawson (provides us with the backup, fast-paced PG we need) and Chris The Birdman Andersen (who will help solve our rebounding issues) then I might be able to be sold on the deal. But those four for Carmelo is going to hurt, and we won't be any closer to really competing for a title. I don't even think that lineup is good enough to crack the top 4 in the east (i.e. better than Chicago or Orlando).

    Our biggest asset right now is our depth. Gallo looks like he is becoming a very high-end 3rd option on a good team, and Fields does what we need him to on the boards, we get enough scoring elsewhere. Add Melo to play alongside those two, we have a true competitor. But blowing everything up for Melo, I guarantee, will not result in this team winning a title.
    lets take chandler out of the equation because he would cost us about 8+ in FAgency...

    gallo is good but he plays the same postion as melo.. melo should not be playing the 4......

    if gallo stay our coach will play a small lineup which will kill STAT...

    we would be able to sign a few players for the remainder of the season..maybe make a small trade..

    other role players will play better because a combination of STAT and Melo will cause way more matchup problems then our current roster...

    we can score alot....we know that....

    we can lose a little scoring puch and put good defenders with not much offensive games around them....

    most likely we wont get out of the first round anyway this year.. so this year is done..

    if you make that trade.. we are still a playoff team this yeah...

    we need to look towards next year...and beyond....

    sometimes you got to take a small step back to make a giant leap forward..

  3. #3
    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Germany/Mount Vernon NY
    Posts
    1,357
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Nobody is talking about a title or even Conference Final run this season!

    It takes more than just Melo to turn us into a contender. We all know that.

    Donnie Walsh knows it. That's why the plan has always been to get 3 stars for this franchise. It seems to be the only way to win trophys these times.

    Boston (07-08): Garnett, Pierce, Allen, great role players (Perckins etc.)

    LA (08-09, 09-10): Kobe, Gasol, Odom, great role players (Ariza, Fisher, Bynum, Artest)

    Miami (10-11) ??? : Wade, Lebitch, Bosh.

    You can't touch gold unless you got 3 legit stars or 2 legit stars and a ton of All stars to support them.

    Our dream and plan is to get STAT, Melo and Chris Paul. Then pick up a few trophy hungry role players and we're in the mix to get a ring.

    Fields is good, but nothing more than a role player. Very useful on a championship caliber team, but you need to get the star players first. If he is the key to get Melo we must let him go.

    Chandler is a very strange guy. Sometimes he plays like an MIP or 6th man oty contender, sometimes he plays like he shouldn't even be in this league. Plus his lack of emotion is very irritating. Useful player, but you can get someone like him every summer via draft or free agency.

    Randolph is just a huge bust imo. You can teach defense, shooting, rebounding etc - when a player has the right mindset. Randolph is either a very dumb fella or his mindset is soft as hell, either way he doesn't belong in this league.

    Gallo has improved lately, but his shooting and shot selection are still terrible most of the time. His driving to the basket has been sensational as of late, but he'll demand a huge contract in two years time and I'm not ready to give him one, when we could spend the mega bucks on CP3, D_Will or Superman instead.

  4. #4
    Superstar welcometonycity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    879
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    This team WILL NOT be worse then before. 2 top scorers in the Nba. Idc what anybody says. Were a .500 team now i guarentee we will be better then .500 with Melo. I know some of u guys have little gay feelings towards these guys but its time to make moves b. Agreed with sprewellhouston

  5. #5
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,668
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Originally Posted by welcometonycity
    This team WILL NOT be worse then before. 2 top scorers in the Nba. Idc what anybody says. Were a .500 team now i guarentee we will be better then .500 with Melo. I know some of u guys have little gay feelings towards these guys but its time to make moves b. Agreed with sprewellhouston
    2 of the top scorers in the NBA yes. But without Carmelo we are pouring in 100 every night basically. So what do we need another top scorer so bad? Offensively we are just fine. Carmelo hurts the D, and moving 4 guys including our top 3 tradeable assets besides Felton gives us no depth, no tradeable assets and hamstrings us for the future while worsening our defense and severely shortening our rotation.
    Last edited by KBlack25; Feb 12, 2011 at 12:24.

  6. #6
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,758
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    Unless we can get Melo for the current deal we have on the table, or maybe just by adding Fields to it, I would wait to get Melo in FA. I honestly think he would come here as a FA if he has to and he prolly understands this is the wisest thing for him to do-- winning being the primary focus and all.

    Also couldn't we say to Amare and Melo, "listen guys we want to restructure your deals slightly so we can add Paul and keep Gallo"? We could also say to Gallo, "hey if you wanna play for a winner we need to keep you at a certain salary". Or we could go over the cap. I think Dolan would be happy to pay the luxury tax if he had a legitimately awesome team that had a good chance to win it all for a few years.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Feb 12, 2011 at 12:44.

  7. #7
    Member JazRedGT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    267
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Having 2 dominant scorers makes teams prepare for and play defense against both of them. Instead of the way they do us now by doubling STAT and letting us miss our 3's. Make them work harder playing defense and they will be more inclined to breakdown offensively. It works im telling you. Just watch what happens to the Knicks when teams slow the game down then double the crap out of STAT.

  8. #8
    Superstar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    683
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Melo and Cap Space

    I do not expect anything to happen on the Melo front until the last minute. Denver will likely reduce its demands; the Knicks will likely increase their offer. If there is a trade which gives Melo his current CBA contract money, we will probably also lose Gallo or Fields.

    My own view is to let Melo pay for the opportunity to play in New York. Sure, he will likely take a hit under the new CBA, but it will not really affect his life style.

    The problem is that if we give up assets, including Fields and/or Gallo, we will run into cap difficulties without assets to reduce those dificulties.

    If we get Melo in a trade as opposed to free agency, with him, Amar'e and Felton we will use up about $45M of cap space -- for just three players. How are we going to get a third superstar?

    If Melo comes in as a free agent, we sitll have Chandler, Gallo and Fields. We cannot have both Chandler and Melo given the cap hold on Chandler, but as with Lee we probably could get something in a sign and trade before we would sign Melo. We would have our other assets, Fields, Gallo etc., for later deals. We would have Randolph or whatever we would get for Randolph at the trade deadline. We simply have tons more flexibility going forward. With a trade, we are not just giving up Gallo or Fields, we are giving up future flexibility. I simply would not up our current offer. I think we get Melo anyway. He and LaLa want New York.

    And lets not feel sorry for Denver, we gave up Camby and the ability to draft Nene -- or Amar'e and others -- for an injured McDyess.

  9. #9
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally Posted by welcometonycity
    This team WILL NOT be worse then before. 2 top scorers in the Nba. Idc what anybody says. Were a .500 team now i guarentee we will be better then .500 with Melo. I know some of u guys have little gay feelings towards these guys but its time to make moves b. Agreed with sprewellhouston
    lmaaoo yo ***** where u been

  10. #10
    Member knicksman20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    155
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Originally Posted by JazRedGT
    Having 2 dominant scorers makes teams prepare for and play defense against both of them. Instead of the way they do us now by doubling STAT and letting us miss our 3's. Make them work harder playing defense and they will be more inclined to breakdown offensively. It works im telling you. Just watch what happens to the Knicks when teams slow the game down then double the crap out of STAT.
    Originally Posted by Hayato
    no. you do pretty much whatever it takes to get melo. as long as you dont give up more than 4 or 5 people and as long as you dont get rid of stoudemire. its obvious teams need at least 2 superstars to win titles..you get the superstars AND THEN you get the role players to encompass them. not the other way around! you dont get the role players first and then throw a start into the mix. if the knicks arent trying viciously to get this deal done, their judgement is MORTALLY impaired.

    and theres no excuse to not get him. this is totally different than lebron. melo has made it 100% crystal clear that he wants to play in his HOMELAND in the basketball mecca. lebron always maliciously beat around the bush when he would praise ny so he could get ny excited. melo, however, is making it SPARKLING CLEAR. and we have no excuse to not get him.
    Great points! Melo & Amare on the team gives whatever role players we have left way more opportunities for easy buckets. To emphasize what was already said, role players like Gallo & Chandler are easier to sign than legitimate super stars. When you have great chance of landing one you go after him. With two stars on the team, we'll be able to attract the necessary role players we need. As in the case of Miami, players/vet role players will sign for less knowing their chances of going deep in the playoffs is higher; not to mention the big market & exposure NY is.

  11. #11
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,668
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    Nobody is talking about a title or even Conference Final run this season!

    It takes more than just Melo to turn us into a contender. We all know that.

    Donnie Walsh knows it. That's why the plan has always been to get 3 stars for this franchise. It seems to be the only way to win trophys these times.

    Boston (07-08): Garnett, Pierce, Allen, great role players (Perckins etc.)

    LA (08-09, 09-10): Kobe, Gasol, Odom, great role players (Ariza, Fisher, Bynum, Artest)

    Miami (10-11) ??? : Wade, Lebitch, Bosh.

    You can't touch gold unless you got 3 legit stars or 2 legit stars and a ton of All stars to support them.

    Our dream and plan is to get STAT, Melo and Chris Paul. Then pick up a few trophy hungry role players and we're in the mix to get a ring.

    Fields is good, but nothing more than a role player. Very useful on a championship caliber team, but you need to get the star players first. If he is the key to get Melo we must let him go.

    Chandler is a very strange guy. Sometimes he plays like an MIP or 6th man oty contender, sometimes he plays like he shouldn't even be in this league. Plus his lack of emotion is very irritating. Useful player, but you can get someone like him every summer via draft or free agency.

    Randolph is just a huge bust imo. You can teach defense, shooting, rebounding etc - when a player has the right mindset. Randolph is either a very dumb fella or his mindset is soft as hell, either way he doesn't belong in this league.

    Gallo has improved lately, but his shooting and shot selection are still terrible most of the time. His driving to the basket has been sensational as of late, but he'll demand a huge contract in two years time and I'm not ready to give him one, when we could spend the mega bucks on CP3, D_Will or Superman instead.

    That's my point. All these teams had stud role players.

    If we make this move for Melo we will have below average role players and no room to add any more.

    You wouldn't give Gallo $ b/c you want to spend it on CP3, DWill or D12...if we make the move for Melo we will not HAVE the $ to spend on those guys anyway, all our $ will be tied up in Melo and STAT basically, we might have $7 million from Felton's contract running.

    Our dream plan is to get Melo, CP3 and STAT, I agree. But trading all of our assets now for Melo makes that dream impossible. We will have no cap room and no assets in the upcoming year outside of basically just Raymond Feltons 7 mil expiring.

  12. #12
    Member NY_Swagger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Harlem
    Posts
    120
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    Nobody is talking about a title or even Conference Final run this season!

    It takes more than just Melo to turn us into a contender. We all know that.


    Boston (07-08): Garnett, Pierce, Allen, great role players (Perckins etc.)

    LA (08-09, 09-10): Kobe, Gasol, Odom, great role players (Ariza, Fisher, Bynum, Artest)

    Miami (10-11) ??? : Wade, Lebitch, Bosh.

    You can't touch gold unless you got 3 legit stars or 2 legit stars and a ton of All stars to support them.
    To add if you look at the other three teams that are leading their division; they all have 2+ legit stars.

    OKC- Durant, Westbrook
    Bulls- Rose,Boozier
    Spurs-Duncan, Manu, Parker

    We only have one. Getting the second one is harder than getting the role players. There's no guarnteethat another will sign here while STAT is in his prime.

    After seeing how we are losing leverage with Denver Donnie needs to be more aggressive and give to get. We may need to stop low balling to get Melo. To quote Kobe "He's a bad boy". Should the Knicks get him? "you figure that out".

  13. #13
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,758
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    Originally Posted by NY_Swagger
    To add if you look at the other three teams that are leading their division; they all have 2+ legit stars.

    OKC- Durant, Westbrook
    Bulls- Rose,Boozier
    Spurs-Duncan, Manu, Parker

    We only have one. Getting the second one is harder than getting the role players. There's no guarnteethat another will sign here while STAT is in his prime.

    After seeing how we are losing leverage with Denver Donnie needs to be more aggressive and give to get. We may need to stop low balling to get Melo. To quote Kobe "He's a bad boy". Should the Knicks get him? "you figure that out".
    The aggressive thing for Donnie to do would be to sit tight. If he has a good feeling Melo will come to him later anyways, why add anything to the deal? Doing nothing right now is the right play. Throw in Fields at the last sec if you have to, but thas it.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Feb 12, 2011 at 12:50.

  14. #14
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,668
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    This trade works...I would be more for this because we would next year have a $13 million trade chip in Billups next season, helping us retain cap flexibility and gives us the ability to make one more move next year.

    However, I fear Billups literally collapsing on the floor b/c of the up-and-down pace of D'Antoni.

  15. #15
    Veteran Wargames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,202
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    Nobody is talking about a title or even Conference Final run this season!

    It takes more than just Melo to turn us into a contender. We all know that.

    Donnie Walsh knows it. That's why the plan has always been to get 3 stars for this franchise. It seems to be the only way to win trophys these times.

    Boston (07-08): Garnett, Pierce, Allen, great role players (Perckins etc.)

    LA (08-09, 09-10): Kobe, Gasol, Odom, great role players (Ariza, Fisher, Bynum, Artest)

    Miami (10-11) ??? : Wade, Lebitch, Bosh.

    You can't touch gold unless you got 3 legit stars or 2 legit stars and a ton of All stars to support them.

    Our dream and plan is to get STAT, Melo and Chris Paul. Then pick up a few trophy hungry role players and we're in the mix to get a ring.

    Fields is good, but nothing more than a role player. Very useful on a championship caliber team, but you need to get the star players first. If he is the key to get Melo we must let him go.

    Chandler is a very strange guy. Sometimes he plays like an MIP or 6th man oty contender, sometimes he plays like he shouldn't even be in this league. Plus his lack of emotion is very irritating. Useful player, but you can get someone like him every summer via draft or free agency.

    Randolph is just a huge bust imo. You can teach defense, shooting, rebounding etc - when a player has the right mindset. Randolph is either a very dumb fella or his mindset is soft as hell, either way he doesn't belong in this league.

    Gallo has improved lately, but his shooting and shot selection are still terrible most of the time. His driving to the basket has been sensational as of late, but he'll demand a huge contract in two years time and I'm not ready to give him one, when we could spend the mega bucks on CP3, D_Will or Superman instead.
    Actually the plan was the get two stars. This whole "we need three stars" is because Miami copied the Celtics by getting three stars however unlike the Celtics Miami's stars are in their prime...... Anyway the goal originally was to get Lebron and have Bosh or Amare be the number 2 scorer in the post. We even drafted guys like Fields and Rautins because we figured Fields would do the glue work since Lebron would score and Rautins could develop into a spot on scorer point guard since Lebron could do most of the Point Guard distribution himself. Now since Lebron is in Miami and CP3 gave a toast (that in hindsight I feel set up this whole we don't want to work with the Knicks strategy of Nuggets) we as Fans have been hoping for a chance to have our own Big three.

    But we really need to be honest here setting up a big three in their primes is hard to do capwise. Until this playoff season is over we won't even be able to judge if a team of three elites and some role players/Garbage work players can compete for a chip. Also if the league create a franchise tag or alters the MLE (be removing it or making it available only once every two years) the Heat and teams like them are screwed. Now don't get me wrong I realize you got to make that deal to get Melo because if we get him that opens up more moves for us. But you can't give them all away their is no guarantee that the Knicks will be able to replace them with workable pieces, and the way the new contracts are going to be built there is not guarantee that we could even if we wanted make a big three.

Similar Threads

  1. Fire D'antoni!!!
    By johnstarky in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 124
    Last Post: Mar 12, 2012, 16:42
  2. disgusting!
    By NYKChevy in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: Jan 25, 2010, 12:33
  3. Replies: 8
    Last Post: Apr 08, 2008, 11:35
  4. At What Point Will You Say The Knicks Are Better Without Steph?
    By Eddy Currys House Special in forum NY Knicks
    Replies: 130
    Last Post: Jan 21, 2008, 17:25
  5. Dream Team
    By KnickFan2080 in forum NBA
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Dec 08, 2003, 12:05

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •