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Thread: What has Damntoni Done?

  1. #76
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    What has the coach done? Nothing if you really look at the current state of the team, I'm really not impressed.... giving all the hype about his coaching prowess. But, he has successfully create chaos and false hope amongst some of the fans. Oh, And he's manage to get himself a TV show, and his son and brother a job in the NBA.

  2. #77
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Damn I though I was the only one to notice that.

    I dare anyone to go back (if you can find it) and look at old JVG post game interviews when he speaks on defense. You can clearly see he is more passionate about it, thus it comes across as genuine. Dantoni seems like he's just mentioning it to satisfy the masses.

    Count me in as well.

    This is exactly what I, and another poster (forgot the S/N) was saying about the MDA and Mozgov situation. MDA was talking about having confidence in the player, in the media, but was sitting him on the bench when we were sorely in need of some rebounding. Then when 2 players in our short rotation are out....magically Mozgov was "primed and ready?" Really?

    Is that similar to how a female who IS NOT a gold digger only comes around when she needs money from you or for you to buy something for her? But she's not a gold digger...you know...because she told you she's not.

    MDA says whatever he needs to say in the moment. You can see it all over his face when he starts searching for the "right" answer and then starts mumbling.

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    Originally Posted by nuckles2k2
    Count me in as well.

    This is exactly what I, and another poster (forgot the S/N) was saying about the MDA and Mozgov situation. MDA was talking about having confidence in the player, in the media, but was sitting him on the bench when we were sorely in need of some rebounding. Then when 2 players in our short rotation are out....magically Mozgov was "primed and ready?" Really?

    Is that similar to how a female who IS NOT a gold digger only comes around when she needs money from you or for you to buy something for her? But she's not a gold digger...you know...because she told you she's not.

    MDA says whatever he needs to say in the moment. You can see it all over his face when he starts searching for the "right" answer and then starts mumbling.
    You, Red and NYK are squandering this amazing supernatural gift of mind reading you all evidently have. Might I suggest putting it towards predicting the lotto numbers or going on a game show? Why waste it "exposing" the true intentions of our coach?

  4. #79
    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    You, Red and NYK are squandering this amazing supernatural gift of mind reading you all evidently have. Might I suggest putting it towards predicting the lotto numbers or going on a game show? Why waste it "exposing" the true intentions of our coach?
    All I do is look at what's placed in front of me and base my opinions on that. I don't care about MDA's intentions but I kinda care about the product that I dropped 7 grand+ on for season tickets.

    If we're getting out rebounded in virtually every game we play...and you have confidence in the abilities of our 7' center...play him. Let him make mistakes, learn from them, and grow...that is the absolute worst case scenario for playing a young, 20 year old, foreign center...mistakes, learning experiences on the court, growth.

    And if you're really stressing defense, then there should be some tangible results along with intangible things that you would only know about from watching the game. We don't play the passing lanes well, we switch too much, we double too much, we let bigs get superior position down low, we don't give enough effort for 4 quarters on that side of the ball. Effort can most definitely be altered thru coaching. We may never have an all defensive team out there, but anyone can play good team defense if coached up. You can say MDA and his staff does it...but unless our players are retarded...I don't see it.

    I don't want to hear what MDA has to say in front of a mic/camera, I want to see the results on the court. Don't confuse that with wins and losses, but the results of the "coaching" that the players are receiving.

    I guess you can kinda call me a big picture type of person. While I'm happy that we're in the playoff hunt, I'm not happy that we beat the Nets by really less than 10 points if you take out the free throws to stop the clock, with 16 of 34 three pointers...what the **** is that? When I was sitting in the Garden during the Clippers game, why did I look up at the scoreboard and see us shooting 8% from 3 not even half way thru the second Q? That's 1/12 in less than 20 mins.

    MDA's intentions? No. MDA's carefully worded rhetoric when asked questions about some of the mind boggling **** he's perpetrating? No. MDA's results...or lack thereof? Yes.

    And don't talk to me about the roster, because back in the day he had a 2-time MVP Steve Nash and Amar'e and he also had other players around them that "fit" his "system" (really Euroball with more 3's...but ok...I guess he's a "creative genius") and all that led to was getting handled in the playoffs. Not one-off games during the regular season, but a 7 game series where the other organization is focused on you and only you....the system didn't hold up.

  5. #80
    Veteran Knicksfansince92's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Do we have as much talent as (either) Big Three?
    What was Miami's so called "problem"? I'll tell you, getting talent to mesh together. Now if Boston has done it and Miami has done it so far, Why can't we? and they have bigger stars and Egos than we do.
    I'm just saying if we were competing night in night out on a high level with real defensive and offensive schemes we wouldn't be 26-26. **** we have lost to all of the bottom feeders at least once.
    You guys are happy because we are 6th seed in a weak EC,Mike D has caught various breaks with other teams Stars being out and a easy schedule. NOW it's starting to catch up on him and he is Scapegoating his way out. MELO is affecting us, the Trade Rumors. I didn't hear him bitching while he coached two seasons of less than 35 wins.

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    Originally Posted by Knicksfansince92
    What was Miami's so called "problem"? I'll tell you, getting talent to mesh together. Now if Boston has done it and Miami has done it so far, Why can't we? and they have bigger stars and Egos than we do.
    I'm just saying if we were competing night in night out on a high level with real defensive and offensive schemes we wouldn't be 26-26. **** we have lost to all of the bottom feeders at least once.
    You guys are happy because we are 6th seed in a weak EC,Mike D has caught various breaks with other teams Stars being out and a easy schedule. NOW it's starting to catch up on him and he is Scapegoating his way out. MELO is affecting us, the Trade Rumors. I didn't hear him bitching while he coached two seasons of less than 35 wins.
    Your icons and bolding and changing the font are immature ploys used just to hide the point that you got caught...

    We have a roster comparable to Atlanta, but they have more experience playing together, about 6 times as much.

    Both Big 3s have rosters with an assload more talent than we have. Plus, Miami's Big 3 are all friends who agreed some years ago (if you believe the conspiracy, and I do) to play together.

    If we had Miami's Big 3 and were at 27-26 I would agree with you. But you can't say that "Oh we have as much talent as Atlanta" and when met with the response that Atlanta has been together 3 years, change the question to "Oh well Miami was able to mesh."

    I bring you answers, you change the question, a sure sign that you know your argument isn't holding much water (and I personally see it as weak and horribly put together).

    Miami and Boston have more talent...do you not agree? That is why it is easier to mesh together, there is simply more talent there.

    Atlanta has a comparable amount of talent, and they have been together three years to be as good as they are.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Stating something as true and proving your case are two different things. You are guilty of the first and have yet to try the second...
    Seriously? I actually point to evidence and facts to support my point of view... you do neither, and just lay back on pure speculation and your love of MDA, and I'm not proving my case...

    Wow. Just wow.

    Thanks, btw, for actually addressing my points. Again, just because you think you're right doesn't actually make you right. Try point to relevant facts to support your opinion.

    I would like one simple question answered. Do you think D'Antoni can actually bring NY a championship w/o defense?

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Your icons and bolding and changing the font are immature ploys used just to hide the point that you got caught...

    We have a roster comparable to Atlanta, but they have more experience playing together, about 6 times as much.

    Both Big 3s have rosters with an assload more talent than we have. Plus, Miami's Big 3 are all friends who agreed some years ago (if you believe the conspiracy, and I do) to play together.

    If we had Miami's Big 3 and were at 27-26 I would agree with you. But you can't say that "Oh we have as much talent as Atlanta" and when met with the response that Atlanta has been together 3 years, change the question to "Oh well Miami was able to mesh."

    I bring you answers, you change the question, a sure sign that you know your argument isn't holding much water (and I personally see it as weak and horribly put together).

    Miami and Boston have more talent...do you not agree? That is why it is easier to mesh together, there is simply more talent there.

    Atlanta has a comparable amount of talent, and they have been together three years to be as good as they are.
    And, Atlanta actually plays defense.

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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    Seriously? I actually point to evidence and facts to support my point of view... you do neither, and just lay back on pure speculation and your love of MDA, and I'm not proving my case...

    Wow. Just wow.

    Thanks, btw, for actually addressing my points. Again, just because you think you're right doesn't actually make you right. Try point to relevant facts to support your opinion.

    I would like one simple question answered. Do you think D'Antoni can actually bring NY a championship w/o defense?
    And the top three teams in the East and West are all great defensive teams. Hmmm.

  10. #85
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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    And, Atlanta actually plays defense.
    I mean they have one guy who I personally think is a top 3 rebounder in the league (Al Horford)...and in terms of points allowed per 100 possessions (which I personally think is a better stat to measure defense) we give up only 3 points more than Atlanta.

  11. #86
    Veteran Knicksfansince92's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Your icons and bolding and changing the font are immature ploys used just to hide the point that you got caught...

    We have a roster comparable to Atlanta, but they have more experience playing together, about 6 times as much.

    Both Big 3s have rosters with an assload more talent than we have. Plus, Miami's Big 3 are all friends who agreed some years ago (if you believe the conspiracy, and I do) to play together.

    If we had Miami's Big 3 and were at 27-26 I would agree with you. But you can't say that "Oh we have as much talent as Atlanta" and when met with the response that Atlanta has been together 3 years, change the question to "Oh well Miami was able to mesh."

    I bring you answers, you change the question, a sure sign that you know your argument isn't holding much water (and I personally see it as weak and horribly put together).

    Miami and Boston have more talent...do you not agree? That is why it is easier to mesh together, there is simply more talent there.

    Atlanta has a comparable amount of talent, and they have been together three years to be as good as they are.
    I didn't change the question but I was comparing other teams to show how talent can mess together quickly.
    How can more talented players mesh together faster?By being assigned roles from the COACH. They learn their roles on the team and now what they are capable of and should be doing.
    If our coach was doing this we wouldn't have bad 3 point shooters firing away, legit 7 foot big men shooting 20footers or being benched when we need boards, Our Pg taking more shots than passing and only assisting over 40% to Amare. These are things the COACH is responsible for, this way "TALENT" is able to mesh. Do you agree?

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    Originally Posted by Knicksfansince92
    I didn't change the question but I was comparing other teams to show how talent can mess together quickly.
    How can more talented players mesh together faster?By being assigned roles from the COACH. They learn their roles on the team and now what they are capable of and should be doing.
    If our coach was doing this we wouldn't have bad 3 point shooters firing away, legit 7 foot big men shooting 20footers or being benched when we need boards, Our Pg taking more shots than passing and only assisting over 40% to Amare. These are things the COACH is responsible for, this way "TALENT" is able to mesh. Do you agree?
    No I don't agree. I actually think it is on the players to control a large portion of what goes on on the floor (revolutionary idea on this board). I think that the players, not D'Antoni, take bad shots, miss layups, don't even step in front of their man on the drive (see: Felton, Raymond). I actually think the players making an effort to like each other, and spend time with each other and learn each other's games affects our chemistry more than a coach forcing guys to play together. Wade-Bosh-James played together in USA Hoops and were best boys when they showed up in Miami. Boston had 3 players come together, all some level of a leader, and guys who had predefined roles that all meshed well and simply had the talent to mask early growing pains, and landed a solid PG steal in the draft.

    And yes you did change the question...this is how it went down, literally:

    You: We have better talent than Atlanta, we should be better than them.

    Me: Atlanta has been together for three years.

    You: Well how long did it take the Big Three to mesh?

    Me: The Big Threes both have more talent.

    You: That's no excuse (icons like a 2004 MySpace Page).

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    MDA's intentions? No. MDA's carefully worded rhetoric when asked questions about some of the mind boggling **** he's perpetrating? No. MDA's results...or lack thereof? Yes.
    LOL, mind-boggling **** he is perpetrating? Like what? Not playing a Russian rookie project when he was not ready? Not play AR who has yet to crack an NBA rotation? Come on now!

    If we're getting out rebounded in virtually every game we play...and you have confidence in the abilities of our 7' center...play him. Let him make mistakes, learn from them, and grow...that is the absolute worst case scenario for playing a young, 20 year old, foreign center...mistakes, learning experiences on the court, growth.
    Totally different subject to what you quoted. That said, Moz was given the starting center job and LOST IT DUE TO EARLY STUPID FOULS AND MOVING BEFORE HE HAD CONTROL OF THE BALL. One can be confident that a player has skill and will eventually be a good player while not thinking they are CURRENTLY ready to get major minutes on a team fighting to stay above .500. So yes, it took injuries in order to give Moz a second chance and so far he has played well. Lets remember that he played well for a long stretch during the pre-season before looking absolutely lost on the court. I say the jury is still out on whether he is ready to grind at center for major minutes nightly.

    It is an absolutely terrible idea to gamble winnable games for the sake of experience and growth. We are competing for our first playoff birth in years and need every win this INCOMPLETE roster can muster. You act as if a player cannot gain valuable skill or growth from practices and scrimmages against other NBA teammates.

    And if you're really stressing defense, then there should be some tangible results along with intangible things that you would only know about from watching the game. We don't play the passing lanes well, we switch too much, we double too much, we let bigs get superior position down low, we don't give enough effort for 4 quarters on that side of the ball. Effort can most definitely be altered thru coaching. We may never have an all defensive team out there, but anyone can play good team defense if coached up. You can say MDA and his staff does it...but unless our players are retarded...I don't see it.
    TD plays the passing lane quite well which would highlight the ultimate truth that it is the player and not coach MOSTLY responsible. As my quote from JJ states, you cannot expect players who are weak at defense to be great defenders through coaching anymore than you can make someone who is not offensively gifted into a top tier scorer. (paraphrasing)

    We let bigs get superior position because Amare and Chandler for the majority of the season have played out of position. Amare has never been a good defender and certainly can't contain elite scorers while playing out of position. Neither can Chandler, so again, more to do with roster than coaching. If you disagree please tell me why you think a defensive coach can outweigh poor defensive players playing out of position. Again, Larry Brown, a HOF coach known for his defense had the Knicks 27th in the league in defense. Larry Brown...27th in the league!

    I don't want to hear what MDA has to say in front of a mic/camera, I want to see the results on the court. Don't confuse that with wins and losses, but the results of the "coaching" that the players are receiving.
    You are seeing the results, we are the 6th seed. 6th seed and winning record in a league dominated by teams with multiple stars. 6th seed with max money wasted on Curry. 6th seed with our best potential defender (Azbuikie) yet to play a game. 6th seed with our second best defender (Turiaf) injured for most of the season.

    Again, are you asserting we should be 5th, 4th or even 3rd seed? I see us right where we are supposed to be and ahead of where many predicted at the start.

    I guess you can kinda call me a big picture type of person. While I'm happy that we're in the playoff hunt, I'm not happy that we beat the Nets by really less than 10 points if you take out the free throws to stop the clock, with 16 of 34 three pointers...what the **** is that? When I was sitting in the Garden during the Clippers game, why did I look up at the scoreboard and see us shooting 8% from 3 not even half way thru the second Q? That's 1/12 in less than 20 mins.
    I missed the game but wasn't Amare injured?

    And don't talk to me about the roster, because back in the day he had a 2-time MVP Steve Nash and Amar'e and he also had other players around them that "fit" his "system" (really Euroball with more 3's...but ok...I guess he's a "creative genius") and all that led to was getting handled in the playoffs. Not one-off games during the regular season, but a 7 game series where the other organization is focused on you and only you....the system didn't hold up.
    And Pat Riley and JVG never won titles with the Knicks yet I'm confident you would have either back as coach. The Suns ran up against a superior team in the Spurs and the one year they were up 2-1 (i believe) Amare and Barbosa each got suspended for leaving the bench. The Spurs ended winning the series and sweeping the Cavs.

    I will stay talking about the roster since it the most important facet of defense...period. Again, we have players playing out of position, 1.5 stars in a league dominated by teams with 2+, poor defensive players and max money sitting on the sideline.

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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    Seriously? I actually point to evidence and facts to support my point of view... you do neither, and just lay back on pure speculation and your love of MDA, and I'm not proving my case...

    Wow. Just wow.

    Thanks, btw, for actually addressing my points. Again, just because you think you're right doesn't actually make you right. Try point to relevant facts to support your opinion.

    I would like one simple question answered. Do you think D'Antoni can actually bring NY a championship w/o defense?

    If you could read you would not be saying this. I have composed more logic, brought more fact and made more irrefutable points in this thread alone then your short tenure on this site. First you list a whole bunch of things as fact and now you are in essence stating "I know you are but what am I"

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    I mean they have one guy who I personally think is a top 3 rebounder in the league (Al Horford)...and in terms of points allowed per 100 possessions (which I personally think is a better stat to measure defense) we give up only 3 points more than Atlanta.
    Unless I'm reading this wrong, we give up 11ppg more than Atlanta.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    That's a pretty huge margin of difference.

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