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Thread: What has Damntoni Done?

  1. #91
    Veteran Knicksfansince92's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    No I don't agree. I actually think it is on the players to control a large portion of what goes on on the floor. I actually think the players making an effort to like each other, and spend time with each other and learn each other's games. Wade-Bosh-James played together in USA Hoops and were best boys when they showed up in Miami. Boston had 3 players come together, a leader, and guys who had predefined roles that all meshed well and simply had the talent to mask early growing pains, and landed a solid PG steal in the draft.

    And yes you did change the question...this is how it went down, literally:

    You: We have better talent than Atlanta, we should be better than them.

    Me: Atlanta has been together for three years.

    You: Well how long did it take the Big Three to mesh?

    Me: The Big Threes both have more talent.

    You: That's no excuse (icons like a 2004 MySpace Page).
    I said we have equal talent to Atlanta,Also Atlanta didn't have Jamal Crawford when they only won 37 games as soon as he came they boosted up to 50+ under Mike Woodson. 37-50+ in one season that's at least 13+ wins. So if we have a talent similar to theirs we should be on our way to at least 42 wins. Under Mike D we might not get that.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    If you could read you would not be saying this. I have composed more logic, brought more fact and made more irrefutable points in this thread alone then your short tenure on this site. First you list a whole bunch of things as fact and now you are in essence stating "I know you are but what am I"
    AGain, thanks for the Ad Hominem attack instead of actually addressing my point. Thanks for refuting yourself for me.

  3. #93
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    Unless I'm reading this wrong, we give up 11ppg more than Atlanta.

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    That's a pretty huge margin of difference.
    That's not what I said (read what I wrote).

    There's a difference between PPG and points per 100 possessions. If you force more possessions there is more scoring (e.g. if you run the floor and score quick buckets there are simply more chances for each team to score). I personally believe points per 100 possessions is a better indicator, it shows how well, per possession you play ball. Per 100 possession we give up 3 points more than Atlanta.

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    Kblack...don't even except the premise. Atlanta has a better and deeper roster than the Knicks evidenced by their ability to actually play the players at their natural position. Add in their experience together, playoff runs and deep roster full of veterans(we are the 2nd youngest team) and it's not a mystery to most why Atlanta is ahead of us.

    People would have us believe this is all coaching and not that our roster and rebuild is incomplete, not that our two best defenders (Azbuikie and Turiaf) have been injured and not that we are a young squad, newly formed with only one star.

  5. #95
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Knicksfansince92
    I said we have equal talent to Atlanta,Also Atlanta didn't have Jamal Crawford when they only won 37 games as soon as he came they boosted up to 50+ under Mike Woodson. 37-50+ in one season that's at least 13+ wins. So if we have a talent similar to theirs we should be on our way to at least 42 wins. Under Mike D we might not get that.
    We are 1 game over .500, so we are on pace for that #.

  6. #96
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    No I don't agree. I actually think it is on the players to control a large portion of what goes on on the floor (revolutionary idea on this board). I think that the players, not D'Antoni, take bad shots, miss layups, don't even step in front of their man on the drive (see: Felton, Raymond). I actually think the players making an effort to like each other, and spend time with each other and learn each other's games affects our chemistry more than a coach forcing guys to play together. Wade-Bosh-James played together in USA Hoops and were best boys when they showed up in Miami. Boston had 3 players come together, all some level of a leader, and guys who had predefined roles that all meshed well and simply had the talent to mask early growing pains, and landed a solid PG steal in the draft.

    And yes you did change the question...this is how it went down, literally:

    You: We have better talent than Atlanta, we should be better than them.

    Me: Atlanta has been together for three years.

    You: Well how long did it take the Big Three to mesh?

    Me: The Big Threes both have more talent.

    You: That's no excuse (icons like a 2004 MySpace Page).
    Then whats the excuse for Portland having a better record than us?What's the excuse for Phoenix almost having the same record than us?Why?Because they play DEFENSE.

  7. #97
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Kblack...don't even except the premise. Atlanta has a better and deeper roster than the Knicks evidenced by their ability to actually play the players at their natural position. Add in their experience together, playoff runs and deep roster full of veterans(we are the 2nd youngest team) and it's not a mystery to most why Atlanta is ahead of us.

    People would have us believe this is all coaching and not that our roster and rebuild is incomplete, not that our two best defenders (Azbuikie and Turiaf) have been injured and not that we are a young squad, newly formed with only one star.
    No I agree.

    Atlanta, even with similar talent (I think Atlanta is more talented, personally, but even if we roll with that idea), they have had 3 years to put it together. Then the guy says we should be on pace for 42 wins (which is what we are on pace for right now) but with MDA we might not get there...well an anvil might fall on my head when I walk outside, I don't play in MIGHTS. I see over halfway through the season, this team, based on talent level right where they should be. Apparently so does Mike D'Antoni's detractor (knicksfansince92).

    No coach would have us in the top 4, we simply aren't as deep as even Orlando or Chicago, nevermind Miami and Boston. If you want to say we might compete with Atlanta, I disagree (I think their front court is absolutely LETHAL), but that still doesn't have us much further up than where we should be.

  8. #98
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    Originally Posted by AmareForPresident
    Then whats the excuse for Portland having a better record than us?What's the excuse for Phoenix almost having the same record than us?Why?Because they play DEFENSE.
    Phoenix gives up more points per 100 possessions than we do, and we give up less than 2.5 more points per 100 possessions than Portland. It's not a huge difference.

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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    AGain, thanks for the Ad Hominem attack instead of actually addressing my point. Thanks for refuting yourself for me.
    Thats funny because I have about 5 page long posts in this thread that you have yet to even start to address. If it offends you that I pointed out that you responded with a list of assertions masquerading as fact and accused me(falsely) of doing what I pointed out you doing then change your behavior.

    All your "facts" have been directly addressed before you even made them. That tells me you rather ignore my points and restate your own assertions then quote me and have an actual debate...hence my initial post in your direction.

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    I think the most telling factor is point differential. However, Atlanta is a more consistent team than the Knicks on the defensive end, and it is why they are where they are now. Experience, you're right, does play a factor, but they have better individual and team defenders. There is a reason why they are 7 games ahead of us and that goes to defense.

    If the Knicks played defense that they are capable of, we would be right around where Atlanta is.

  11. #101
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Thats funny because I have about 5 page long posts in this thread that you have yet to even start to address. If it offends you that I pointed out that you responded with a list of assertions masquerading as fact and accused me(falsely) of doing what I pointed out you doing then change your behavior.

    All your "facts" have been directly addressed before you even made them. That tells me you rather ignore my points and restate your own assertions then quote me and have an actual debate...hence my initial post in your direction.
    I have seen your points and successfully addressed and successfully refuted them in this thread and others. I asked you once question, which you have refused to answer...

    With the way D'Antoni "preaches" defense, could you really see us winning a championship?

  12. #102
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    I think the most telling factor is point differential. However, Atlanta is a more consistent team than the Knicks on the defensive end, and it is why they are where they are now. Experience, you're right, does play a factor, but they have better individual and team defenders. There is a reason why they are 7 games ahead of us and that goes to defense.

    If the Knicks played defense that they are capable of, we would be right around where Atlanta is.
    We DO play similar defense to Atlanta on the whole. Are we better? No. But we aren't being blown away on the # of points per possession we give up, it's relatively close between a large chunk of teams in the middle...there are 7 teams sort of bunched at the top, a bunch of teams in the middle, and a number of teams bunched at the bottom. We are in the middle with ATL. It's 3 points per 100 possessions, we play similar defense per possession to ATL. The real problem is rebounding, we aren't even doing the BASICS when it comes to rebounding, which I see as a problem in personnel.

  13. #103
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    LOL, mind-boggling **** he is perpetrating? Like what? Not playing a Russian rookie project when he was not ready? Not play AR who has yet to crack an NBA rotation? Come on now!



    Totally different subject to what you quoted. That said, Moz was given the starting center job and LOST IT DUE TO EARLY STUPID FOULS AND MOVING BEFORE HE HAD CONTROL OF THE BALL. One can be confident that a player has skill and will eventually be a good player while not thinking they are CURRENTLY ready to get major minutes on a team fighting to stay above .500. So yes, it took injuries in order to give Moz a second chance and so far he has played well. Lets remember that he played well for a long stretch during the pre-season before looking absolutely lost on the court. I say the jury is still out on whether he is ready to grind at center for major minutes nightly.

    It is an absolutely terrible idea to gamble winnable games for the sake of experience and growth. We are competing for our first playoff birth in years and need every win this INCOMPLETE roster can muster. You act as if a player cannot gain valuable skill or growth from practices and scrimmages against other NBA teammates.



    TD plays the passing lane quite well which would highlight the ultimate truth that it is the player and not coach MOSTLY responsible. As my quote from JJ states, you cannot expect players who are weak at defense to be great defenders through coaching anymore than you can make someone who is not offensively gifted into a top tier scorer. (paraphrasing)

    We let bigs get superior position because Amare and Chandler for the majority of the season have played out of position. Amare has never been a good defender and certainly can't contain elite scorers while playing out of position. Neither can Chandler, so again, more to do with roster than coaching. If you disagree please tell me why you think a defensive coach can outweigh poor defensive players playing out of position. Again, Larry Brown, a HOF coach known for his defense had the Knicks 27th in the league in defense. Larry Brown...27th in the league!



    You are seeing the results, we are the 6th seed. 6th seed and winning record in a league dominated by teams with multiple stars. 6th seed with max money wasted on Curry. 6th seed with our best potential defender (Azbuikie) yet to play a game. 6th seed with our second best defender (Turiaf) injured for most of the season.

    Again, are you asserting we should be 5th, 4th or even 3rd seed? I see us right where we are supposed to be and ahead of where many predicted at the start.



    I missed the game but wasn't Amare injured?



    And Pat Riley and JVG never won titles with the Knicks yet I'm confident you would have either back as coach. The Suns ran up against a superior team in the Spurs and the one year they were up 2-1 (i believe) Amare and Barbosa each got suspended for leaving the bench. The Spurs ended winning the series and sweeping the Cavs.

    I will stay talking about the roster since it the most important facet of defense...period. Again, we have players playing out of position, 1.5 stars in a league dominated by teams with 2+, poor defensive players and max money sitting on the sideline.
    I love how you always find a way to defend MDA.The bulls have only a little bit more talent than we do (and don't even say they have Noah because he was injured since early december).Why do they have better record than us?because when they don't just rely on offense they have defense so when there shots are knocking down they can still win.Please stop defending MDA and his flawed system.

  14. #104
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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    I think the most telling factor is point differential. However, Atlanta is a more consistent team than the Knicks on the defensive end, and it is why they are where they are now. Experience, you're right, does play a factor, but they have better individual and team defenders. There is a reason why they are 7 games ahead of us and that goes to defense.

    If the Knicks played defense that they are capable of, we would be right around where Atlanta is.

    How are the two bolded statements consistent? On one hand you acknowledge that they have better defenders and then default back to "if only coach could squeeze defensive blood from a stone we would be right with Atlanta". (paraphrasing)

  15. #105
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    Originally Posted by AmareForPresident
    I love how you always find a way to defend MDA.The bulls have only a little bit more talent than we do (and don't even say they have Noah because he was injured since early december).Why do they have better record than us?because when they don't just rely on offense they have defense so when there shots are knocking down they can still win.Please stop defending MDA and his flawed system.
    I disagree. I think top to bottom the Bulls are one of the best, most complementary rosters in the league.

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