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Thread: Do NOT Blow Up This Team for Melo

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Default Do NOT Blow Up This Team for Melo

    I know some of you are going to lose your **** over this but hear me out.

    If we give up Fields, Gallo, Chandler and Randolph for Melo, unless we get something else back, this team will be worse off than before. If we do that we are looking at either Williams or Douglas starting and playing a ton of minutes.

    The goal is not to get two superstars, ultimately. The goal is to win the title.

    Does anyone really think that Felton-Douglas-Melo-STAT-Mozgov (or Felton-Melo-Williams-STAT-Mozgov) with Turiaf, Williams (Douglas) and Roger Mason Jr. playing significant minutes competes for a title? I know we might be able to get people in free agency, but signing Melo to the max gives us no room or flexibility for the future, we have no 1st rounder in 2012 and no real ability to add anybody above the mid-level exception.

    We need DEPTH. The Pistons showed how to beat a team with a front-line of stacked superstars in that finals v. the Payton-Bryant-Malone-Shaq Lakers. They had a ton of different centers rotate in on Shaq, they were just the much fresher team overall and that team won the title with DEPTH. Felton-Melo-STAT is NOT Wade-LeBron-Bosh, that Miami team will still run us out of the building.

    Melo's defense also wouldn't really help us, he isn't that good defensively.

    I think we as fans clamor for stars, but the fact is getting two superstars just to have them isn't really all that great if the team can't compete. We wouldn't really be able to get D12 or CP3 in free agency because our flexibility would be killed, and we wouldn't trade for them because we would have just moved all expendable assets outside of Felton for Carmelo.

    Moving Fields-Gallo-Chandler-Randolph for Melo only might seem like a proper deal, but it really kills this teams depth and really hamstrings us for the future. IF in that deal we can get back someone like Ty Lawson (provides us with the backup, fast-paced PG we need) and Chris The Birdman Andersen (who will help solve our rebounding issues) then I might be able to be sold on the deal. But those four for Carmelo is going to hurt, and we won't be any closer to really competing for a title. I don't even think that lineup is good enough to crack the top 4 in the east (i.e. better than Chicago or Orlando).

    Our biggest asset right now is our depth. Gallo looks like he is becoming a very high-end 3rd option on a good team, and Fields does what we need him to on the boards, we get enough scoring elsewhere. Add Melo to play alongside those two, we have a true competitor. But blowing everything up for Melo, I guarantee, will not result in this team winning a title.

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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    I know some of you are going to lose your **** over this but hear me out.

    If we give up Fields, Gallo, Chandler and Randolph for Melo, unless we get something else back, this team will be worse off than before. If we do that we are looking at either Williams or Douglas starting and playing a ton of minutes.

    The goal is not to get two superstars, ultimately. The goal is to win the title.

    Does anyone really think that Felton-Douglas-Melo-STAT-Mozgov (or Felton-Melo-Williams-STAT-Mozgov) with Turiaf, Williams (Douglas) and Roger Mason Jr. playing significant minutes competes for a title? I know we might be able to get people in free agency, but signing Melo to the max gives us no room or flexibility for the future, we have no 1st rounder in 2012 and no real ability to add anybody above the mid-level exception.

    We need DEPTH. The Pistons showed how to beat a team with a front-line of stacked superstars in that finals v. the Payton-Bryant-Malone-Shaq Lakers. They had a ton of different centers rotate in on Shaq, they were just the much fresher team overall and that team won the title with DEPTH. Felton-Melo-STAT is NOT Wade-LeBron-Bosh, that Miami team will still run us out of the building.

    Melo's defense also wouldn't really help us, he isn't that good defensively.

    I think we as fans clamor for stars, but the fact is getting two superstars just to have them isn't really all that great if the team can't compete. We wouldn't really be able to get D12 or CP3 in free agency because our flexibility would be killed, and we wouldn't trade for them because we would have just moved all expendable assets outside of Felton for Carmelo.

    Moving Fields-Gallo-Chandler-Randolph for Melo only might seem like a proper deal, but it really kills this teams depth and really hamstrings us for the future. IF in that deal we can get back someone like Ty Lawson (provides us with the backup, fast-paced PG we need) and Chris The Birdman Andersen (who will help solve our rebounding issues) then I might be able to be sold on the deal. But those four for Carmelo is going to hurt, and we won't be any closer to really competing for a title. I don't even think that lineup is good enough to crack the top 4 in the east (i.e. better than Chicago or Orlando).

    Our biggest asset right now is our depth. Gallo looks like he is becoming a very high-end 3rd option on a good team, and Fields does what we need him to on the boards, we get enough scoring elsewhere. Add Melo to play alongside those two, we have a true competitor. But blowing everything up for Melo, I guarantee, will not result in this team winning a title.
    lets take chandler out of the equation because he would cost us about 8+ in FAgency...

    gallo is good but he plays the same postion as melo.. melo should not be playing the 4......

    if gallo stay our coach will play a small lineup which will kill STAT...

    we would be able to sign a few players for the remainder of the season..maybe make a small trade..

    other role players will play better because a combination of STAT and Melo will cause way more matchup problems then our current roster...

    we can score alot....we know that....

    we can lose a little scoring puch and put good defenders with not much offensive games around them....

    most likely we wont get out of the first round anyway this year.. so this year is done..

    if you make that trade.. we are still a playoff team this yeah...

    we need to look towards next year...and beyond....

    sometimes you got to take a small step back to make a giant leap forward..

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    Veteran Sprewell-Houston's Avatar
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    Nobody is talking about a title or even Conference Final run this season!

    It takes more than just Melo to turn us into a contender. We all know that.

    Donnie Walsh knows it. That's why the plan has always been to get 3 stars for this franchise. It seems to be the only way to win trophys these times.

    Boston (07-08): Garnett, Pierce, Allen, great role players (Perckins etc.)

    LA (08-09, 09-10): Kobe, Gasol, Odom, great role players (Ariza, Fisher, Bynum, Artest)

    Miami (10-11) ??? : Wade, Lebitch, Bosh.

    You can't touch gold unless you got 3 legit stars or 2 legit stars and a ton of All stars to support them.

    Our dream and plan is to get STAT, Melo and Chris Paul. Then pick up a few trophy hungry role players and we're in the mix to get a ring.

    Fields is good, but nothing more than a role player. Very useful on a championship caliber team, but you need to get the star players first. If he is the key to get Melo we must let him go.

    Chandler is a very strange guy. Sometimes he plays like an MIP or 6th man oty contender, sometimes he plays like he shouldn't even be in this league. Plus his lack of emotion is very irritating. Useful player, but you can get someone like him every summer via draft or free agency.

    Randolph is just a huge bust imo. You can teach defense, shooting, rebounding etc - when a player has the right mindset. Randolph is either a very dumb fella or his mindset is soft as hell, either way he doesn't belong in this league.

    Gallo has improved lately, but his shooting and shot selection are still terrible most of the time. His driving to the basket has been sensational as of late, but he'll demand a huge contract in two years time and I'm not ready to give him one, when we could spend the mega bucks on CP3, D_Will or Superman instead.

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    Superstar welcometonycity's Avatar
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    This team WILL NOT be worse then before. 2 top scorers in the Nba. Idc what anybody says. Were a .500 team now i guarentee we will be better then .500 with Melo. I know some of u guys have little gay feelings towards these guys but its time to make moves b. Agreed with sprewellhouston

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    Nobody is talking about a title or even Conference Final run this season!

    It takes more than just Melo to turn us into a contender. We all know that.

    Donnie Walsh knows it. That's why the plan has always been to get 3 stars for this franchise. It seems to be the only way to win trophys these times.

    Boston (07-08): Garnett, Pierce, Allen, great role players (Perckins etc.)

    LA (08-09, 09-10): Kobe, Gasol, Odom, great role players (Ariza, Fisher, Bynum, Artest)

    Miami (10-11) ??? : Wade, Lebitch, Bosh.

    You can't touch gold unless you got 3 legit stars or 2 legit stars and a ton of All stars to support them.

    Our dream and plan is to get STAT, Melo and Chris Paul. Then pick up a few trophy hungry role players and we're in the mix to get a ring.

    Fields is good, but nothing more than a role player. Very useful on a championship caliber team, but you need to get the star players first. If he is the key to get Melo we must let him go.

    Chandler is a very strange guy. Sometimes he plays like an MIP or 6th man oty contender, sometimes he plays like he shouldn't even be in this league. Plus his lack of emotion is very irritating. Useful player, but you can get someone like him every summer via draft or free agency.

    Randolph is just a huge bust imo. You can teach defense, shooting, rebounding etc - when a player has the right mindset. Randolph is either a very dumb fella or his mindset is soft as hell, either way he doesn't belong in this league.

    Gallo has improved lately, but his shooting and shot selection are still terrible most of the time. His driving to the basket has been sensational as of late, but he'll demand a huge contract in two years time and I'm not ready to give him one, when we could spend the mega bucks on CP3, D_Will or Superman instead.

    That's my point. All these teams had stud role players.

    If we make this move for Melo we will have below average role players and no room to add any more.

    You wouldn't give Gallo $ b/c you want to spend it on CP3, DWill or D12...if we make the move for Melo we will not HAVE the $ to spend on those guys anyway, all our $ will be tied up in Melo and STAT basically, we might have $7 million from Felton's contract running.

    Our dream plan is to get Melo, CP3 and STAT, I agree. But trading all of our assets now for Melo makes that dream impossible. We will have no cap room and no assets in the upcoming year outside of basically just Raymond Feltons 7 mil expiring.

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by moneyg
    lets take chandler out of the equation because he would cost us about 8+ in FAgency...

    gallo is good but he plays the same postion as melo.. melo should not be playing the 4......

    if gallo stay our coach will play a small lineup which will kill STAT...

    we would be able to sign a few players for the remainder of the season..maybe make a small trade..

    other role players will play better because a combination of STAT and Melo will cause way more matchup problems then our current roster...

    we can score alot....we know that....

    we can lose a little scoring puch and put good defenders with not much offensive games around them....

    most likely we wont get out of the first round anyway this year.. so this year is done..

    if you make that trade.. we are still a playoff team this yeah...

    we need to look towards next year...and beyond....

    sometimes you got to take a small step back to make a giant leap forward..
    That's my point. We do have to look towards next year. And moving a ton of pieces for just Carmelo impossibly hamstrings us in the future. We will have no cap room AND no tradeable assets besides Felton's expiring deal. Making the move for Carmelo for Gallo-Fields-Chandler AND Randolph puts us in a position to really add no other significant pieces. That includes D12 and CP3.

    IF we can land Lawson and Birdman in the deal (a deal that works on the trade machine by the way), I am all for the move. Lawson gives us a solid backup PG that we need, Andersen helps solve rebounding woes. THESE are the types of solid role players we need...Turiaf and Andersen pulling down rebounds, Felton able to rest while the offense is competently run, and two superstars. But going 4-for-1 basically will destroy any depth, and we will not have those solid role players...

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by welcometonycity
    This team WILL NOT be worse then before. 2 top scorers in the Nba. Idc what anybody says. Were a .500 team now i guarentee we will be better then .500 with Melo. I know some of u guys have little gay feelings towards these guys but its time to make moves b. Agreed with sprewellhouston
    2 of the top scorers in the NBA yes. But without Carmelo we are pouring in 100 every night basically. So what do we need another top scorer so bad? Offensively we are just fine. Carmelo hurts the D, and moving 4 guys including our top 3 tradeable assets besides Felton gives us no depth, no tradeable assets and hamstrings us for the future while worsening our defense and severely shortening our rotation.
    Last edited by KBlack25; Feb 12, 2011 at 11:24.

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    What a brilliant OP.

    I've been preaching the same thing under the same terms.

    The now defunct rumour of the trade involving Minnesota, in which we only lost Chandler, AR and Curry's expiring, was the only time I've ever been an advocate of trading for Melo. The likelihood of that is/was a mirage.

    Does anyone really think that Felton-Douglas-Melo-STAT-Mozgov (or Felton-Melo-Williams-STAT-Mozgov) with Turiaf, Williams (Douglas) and Roger Mason Jr. playing significant minutes competes for a title?
    Jesus Christ, no!

    Dolan may well f*ck it royally for us with his über brat need of instant gratification.

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy8s

    What a brilliant OP.

    I've been preaching the same thing under the same terms.

    The now defunct rumour of the trade involving Minnesota, in which we only lost Chandler, AR and Curry's expiring, was the only time I've ever been an advocate of trading for Melo. The likelihood of that is/was a mirage.



    Jesus Christ, no!

    Dolan may well f*ck it royally for us with his über brat need of instant gratification.
    This is my point...

    If we want to make a run at D12 and CP3, we can't blow our load on Melo, period. Giving up everything for Carmelo Anthony leaves us with shortened depth in the rotation and ZERO ability to attain CP3 in the next year unless we convince the Hornets that Felton and Walker or something is a fair trade...

    Now, if we were to get some decent role players back in the deal as well, I could get down, the rotation stays deep, we can plug some holes in the offensive and defensive sets. But all 4 for Carmelo will prevent us from making a serious run at any free agent or superstar over the next 3 years.

  10. #10
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Unless we can get Melo for the current deal we have on the table, or maybe just by adding Fields to it, I would wait to get Melo in FA. I honestly think he would come here as a FA if he has to and he prolly understands this is the wisest thing for him to do-- winning being the primary focus and all.

    Also couldn't we say to Amare and Melo, "listen guys we want to restructure your deals slightly so we can add Paul and keep Gallo"? We could also say to Gallo, "hey if you wanna play for a winner we need to keep you at a certain salary". Or we could go over the cap. I think Dolan would be happy to pay the luxury tax if he had a legitimately awesome team that had a good chance to win it all for a few years.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Feb 12, 2011 at 11:44.

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    Default Melo and Cap Space

    I do not expect anything to happen on the Melo front until the last minute. Denver will likely reduce its demands; the Knicks will likely increase their offer. If there is a trade which gives Melo his current CBA contract money, we will probably also lose Gallo or Fields.

    My own view is to let Melo pay for the opportunity to play in New York. Sure, he will likely take a hit under the new CBA, but it will not really affect his life style.

    The problem is that if we give up assets, including Fields and/or Gallo, we will run into cap difficulties without assets to reduce those dificulties.

    If we get Melo in a trade as opposed to free agency, with him, Amar'e and Felton we will use up about $45M of cap space -- for just three players. How are we going to get a third superstar?

    If Melo comes in as a free agent, we sitll have Chandler, Gallo and Fields. We cannot have both Chandler and Melo given the cap hold on Chandler, but as with Lee we probably could get something in a sign and trade before we would sign Melo. We would have our other assets, Fields, Gallo etc., for later deals. We would have Randolph or whatever we would get for Randolph at the trade deadline. We simply have tons more flexibility going forward. With a trade, we are not just giving up Gallo or Fields, we are giving up future flexibility. I simply would not up our current offer. I think we get Melo anyway. He and LaLa want New York.

    And lets not feel sorry for Denver, we gave up Camby and the ability to draft Nene -- or Amar'e and others -- for an injured McDyess.

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    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    Nobody is talking about a title or even Conference Final run this season!

    It takes more than just Melo to turn us into a contender. We all know that.


    Boston (07-08): Garnett, Pierce, Allen, great role players (Perckins etc.)

    LA (08-09, 09-10): Kobe, Gasol, Odom, great role players (Ariza, Fisher, Bynum, Artest)

    Miami (10-11) ??? : Wade, Lebitch, Bosh.

    You can't touch gold unless you got 3 legit stars or 2 legit stars and a ton of All stars to support them.
    To add if you look at the other three teams that are leading their division; they all have 2+ legit stars.

    OKC- Durant, Westbrook
    Bulls- Rose,Boozier
    Spurs-Duncan, Manu, Parker

    We only have one. Getting the second one is harder than getting the role players. There's no guarnteethat another will sign here while STAT is in his prime.

    After seeing how we are losing leverage with Denver Donnie needs to be more aggressive and give to get. We may need to stop low balling to get Melo. To quote Kobe "He's a bad boy". Should the Knicks get him? "you figure that out".

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    Having 2 dominant scorers makes teams prepare for and play defense against both of them. Instead of the way they do us now by doubling STAT and letting us miss our 3's. Make them work harder playing defense and they will be more inclined to breakdown offensively. It works im telling you. Just watch what happens to the Knicks when teams slow the game down then double the crap out of STAT.

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JazRedGT
    Having 2 dominant scorers makes teams prepare for and play defense against both of them. Instead of the way they do us now by doubling STAT and letting us miss our 3's. Make them work harder playing defense and they will be more inclined to breakdown offensively. It works im telling you. Just watch what happens to the Knicks when teams slow the game down then double the crap out of STAT.
    I understand. But even with the double teams we are pouring in 100+ on a nightly basis.

    The goal is to win a title, moving every tradeable asset we have for just Carmelo makes it impossible for us to make any significant moves in the future.

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NY_Swagger
    To add if you look at the other three teams that are leading their division; they all have 2+ legit stars.

    OKC- Durant, Westbrook
    Bulls- Rose,Boozier
    Spurs-Duncan, Manu, Parker

    We only have one. Getting the second one is harder than getting the role players. There's no guarnteethat another will sign here while STAT is in his prime.

    After seeing how we are losing leverage with Denver Donnie needs to be more aggressive and give to get. We may need to stop low balling to get Melo. To quote Kobe "He's a bad boy". Should the Knicks get him? "you figure that out".
    The aggressive thing for Donnie to do would be to sit tight. If he has a good feeling Melo will come to him later anyways, why add anything to the deal? Doing nothing right now is the right play. Throw in Fields at the last sec if you have to, but thas it.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Feb 12, 2011 at 11:50.

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