OFFICIAL: ANTI-D'Antoni Thread

Doesn't strike me as a mercenary to be honest. Sure he wouldn't have signed without the money but I honestly believe (and didn't at the time so that speaks volumes) that he wanted to be the leader of a team and that he saw the Knicks as the place to do that and get paid. I have no problem with that as he's proven in word and deed he's the real deal as a leader.

Do you think he's not happy? Do you think he's not excelling? Do you think he's hopefully waiting for MDA to get the boot?

I'm sure he's happy. You do know that if Phoenix had guaranteed the 100 mill STAT would be happy there also. He would have never made it here...
 

STAT1

Starter
This statement makes perfect sense when applied to our team drating:

"That fact the stat adjusts for pace is the exact reason its relevant to our team due to how we play"

If you think about the way we play, our offense does force teams to play our style. They have to play at our pace. Which means we'll have inflated points against numbers thruout a given season. But the fact d-rating eliminates pace as a factor for the teams we play against makes our d rating all the more relevant and more relevant than other stats. It's saying here's what your doing on average against other teams defensively having adjusted for the fact you play a fast pace. It's a more accurate representation of how well we play defense, which is why it applies so well.

Once again, I understand what the stat represents & realize that it is pre-adjusted for the pace at which a team plays at, but the fact is that D'Antoni's teams have never ranked any higher than middle of the pack when it comes to D Rating, which means his teams have never been ranked at the top defensively even with a couple elite defensive players playing on it & even with pace being factored into the equation. That's why I question this SSOL system he likes to run, it reminds me a lot of Rick Pitino's Knicks when I watch this team play, they like to get up & down the floor & get off quick shots in transition before the other team's defense has a chance to set up. Offensively it nets you a ton of points & makes for some exciting & entertaining basketball, but once you come up against a top defensive team that knows how to slow down the pace & take away your bread & butter, which for D'Antoni's offense is the PnR & perimeter shooting, then you're in trouble. I don't get the sense that this team is capable of overcoming teams once they take away our bread & butter, I haven't seen it all year. In my humble opinion, a good offense won't disguise most of your defensive deficiencies, but a good defense can overcome a lot of your offensive shortcomings.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Tongue and cheek? You've reached a new low. Your spinning aint winning here bro.

So the team is in its early stages of development. If this is so true how do you explain the overall offensive prowess of this team. I mean they're rated #2 in offense in the NBA. Please explain to us all why they're so good offensively, but struggle on defense if they're still developing so much.

I doubt we'll improve this much, but 13th-17th wont be good enough for a chip. I think it was this thread where I pointed out all the teams but two that have won chips since 1973 or 1974 were rated top ten in defense.

Ron if JVG had this same exact team would they play better defensively? Yes or No...

I'm not spinning dude. Anybody w the slightest modicum of intelligence can tell he was toying w the media there.

Honestly C&TP. I can't argue w you anymore tnite. I've said where I stand clearly, posted evidence and debunked most of what you've been selling. Frankly I'm a bit tired & frustrated w you. Now I know how Kblack feels..

But I will say this..

Mike D made it to the conference finals twice and the the conf semifinals in three consecutive yrs w the Suns, w out a ten man rotation and a worse overall roster than we're likely to have if we get Melo and Paul along w Donnie making other shrewd acquisitions.

If he gets enough talent to utilize a 10th man rotation, continues to grow in the area of D-rating, and our FO acquires Melo and Paul/ D-Will I think we can get alittle closer than those Suns teams. I believe maybe we can even win a chip. This is where I stand.

And w the current roster I'm not sure we'd be that much better defensively w JVG, but we sure wouldn't score like we do. That much I can tell you.

Well, yea we'd definitely be a little better. I can't front..
 
Last edited:

p0nder

Starter
on JVG: I think we'd be better defensively but not nearly as fluid on offense. We wouldn't be a .500 team. and honestly, without D'antoni, i'm not sure we get Amar'e to play here.

I always liked JVG as a coach and thought he was great for the knicks. Tho many people called for his head early and often. NY is the most unforgiving city on it's head coaches. I think this is just par for the course really. Every knicks fan thinks he could do a better job as head coach.
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
Currently our team, using the Points Per Possession rating, is 21st in the league defensively (bottom third). They have a win differential is .4 a game (which I believe is a lot more telling). The differential tells me you are going to be right around the .500 mark if the law of averages hold. It also means, that games could go one way or another; aka, we could have just as easily lost more games than we won. Essentially, when we step on the court, it is a coin toss whether we win or not.

That's not a good thing.

So, we've played Amar'e 40 minutes a game, run him down, run down the rest of the team, for a record just barely over .500. The costs are not worth the mark, in my opinion, which is my problem with MDA's system.

It will get only worse as the season runs along.

MDA's system may be better in a 41 game season, but 82 games and play-offs... just don't think it happens.

You look at teams like the Bulls, who have some better defensive players, but also boasts Carlos Boozer (who is playing MUCH better defense) because of the Coach. The Spurs are playing great defense, despite having a bunch of players that are average and below average defenders.

Coaching makes a huge difference. D'Antoni has been credited as saying he is always going to try and outscore his opponents and worry about defensive later down the line, if at all. It's not a sustainable system for one or multiple championships.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Currently our team, using the Points Per Possession rating, is 21st in the league defensively (bottom third). They have a win differential is .4 a game (which I believe is a lot more telling). The differential tells me you are going to be right around the .500 mark if the law of averages hold. It also means, that games could go one way or another; aka, we could have just as easily lost more games than we won. Essentially, when we step on the court, it is a coin toss whether we win or not.

That's not a good thing.

So, we've played Amar'e 40 minutes a game, run him down, run down the rest of the team, for a record just barely over .500. The costs are not worth the mark, in my opinion, which is my problem with MDA's system.

It will get only worse as the season runs along.

MDA's system may be better in a 41 game season, but 82 games and play-offs... just don't think it happens.

You look at teams like the Bulls, who have some better defensive players, but also boasts Carlos Boozer (who is playing MUCH better defense) because of the Coach. The Spurs are playing great defense, despite having a bunch of players that are average and below average defenders.

Coaching makes a huge difference. D'Antoni has been credited as saying he is always going to try and outscore his opponents and worry about defensive later down the line, if at all. It's not a sustainable system for one or multiple championships.

Which is the reason implementing a 10 man rotation is so important if we're going to utilize this system.
 
on JVG: I think we'd be better defensively but not nearly as fluid on offense. We wouldn't be a .500 team. and honestly, without D'antoni, i'm not sure we get Amar'e to play here.

I disagree. IMHO I think we'd be at least five games better playing better defense with the current players. First of all every player that gets PT has proven to be more than capable offensively.

Defense can facilitate offense. Offense cant facilitate defense.
 

STAT1

Starter
Which is the reason implementing a 10 man rotation is so important if we're going to utilize this system.

I agree with you on this point, 1 of the reasons I have grown frustrated over MDA's coaching style is that he utilizes a short rotation and doesn't play guys that I think could help alleviate some of our rebounding needs. When I see MDA insist on playing Shawne Williams at the C position in certain rotations it frustrates the hell outta me. These guys are going to be worn out by the end of the season at this rate. Amare's walking around with ice packs on both his knees during the course of a game, it's ridiculous. We need to preserve these guys for the stretch run & give them a little bit of relief. MDA needs to do a better job of trusting some of the guys on our bench to play a little bit of a bigger role.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Melo will mean NOTHING without defense!!

Anyway, two big stars can be quite enough, thank you. Oklahoma City is doing just fine with two, Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. The Utah Jazz did just fine for about a dozen years with two. Hell, Chicago has just one, Derrick Rose, and a terrific ensemble cast tearing up the league right now. The number of stars on hand ain't the Knicks' issue.

But I know two things that are:

The Knicks are lousy defensively and coach Mike D'Antoni is allergic to his own bench. These things aren't debatable. They're facts already entered into evidence.

In fact, bad defense and a lack of depth are both things associated with D'Antoni teams, as in all of them. Talk to guys who played for the Suns during the terrific playoff runs Phoenix made to reach the Western Conference finals, and they'll tell you under oath that the Suns paid less attention to defense than any other good team in the league. The Suns and now the Knicks are going to try to outscore you, which is even more difficult in the Eastern Conference than it is in the West, and neither Stoudemire nor Anthony is overly concerned with defense. That's going to hurt, beginning in the short term, as in the stretch run and the playoffs this spring. Different as the top three teams in the Eastern Conference are, the one thing the Celtics, Heat and Bulls all have in common is they can shut you down. The Knicks ... not so much. Some of the pressure, then, is going to be on D'Antoni, who is going to have to find some reserves he can trust among the players already on hand. Take the aforementioned Mason, for instance. Yes, he fell off dramatically last year but was still good enough to play in 161 of 164 games the past two seasons for Gregg Popovich. It's unlikely he completely forgot how to play or shoot. Yet, under D'Antoni, Mason doesn't play at all. Ever. Eighty-two games two seasons ago, 10 games this season. D'Antoni is going to have to trust his bench and develop a player or two who are still unproven, perhaps Corey Brewer, perhaps Andy Rautins. In the meantime, he's going to have to rely on Shawne Williams (who, to be fair, has produced with a great shooting season), Shelden Williams, Toney Douglas and the like off the bench. Personally, I'll take the Knicks' reserves over what Miami has right now.

I think we just traded all of Mike D'Antni's excuses. No wonder he was against this trade.

Tic-Tock.....
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
I fully expect D'Antoni to be fired by the end of next year. We will not win a championship with this roster. Not even close. The coach will take the fall. Another coach will come in and we will not win a championship. That coach will be fired. And by then Melo and Amare's contracts are up.

It's the endless cycle that is New York sports.
 

STAT1

Starter
Brewer & Shelden Williams should both provide better defense off the bench, & possibly Balkman if he ever gets any run, so that should help our weakness there, but until we bring in a defensive minded starter calibre C then Turiaf is gonna have to hold down the fort. I like the defense that Billups will bring at the PG position & Fields is solid, so our backcourt D shouldn't be too bad either. We're just vulnerable inside with Melo & STAT, hopefully there's another trade in the works to acquire someone like Dalembert or Camby. If we equip MDA with a legit defensive starting C that can block shots, then really there should be no reason why this team can't play top level defense.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Smfh...

Giving a team the day off has its benefits, although it is interesting that D'Antoni has routinely bemoaned the lack of practice time since the Anthony deal was consummated on Feb. 21. The fact is, the Knicks have had chances to hold plenty of practices and or film sessions but D'Antoni elects not to. For example, over the last six days the Knicks could have held five practices/film sessions and they had just one.

For the past two seasons, D'Antoni has decided not to hold morning shootarounds on game days. The vast majority of teams conduct home and road shootarounds, unless they are playing back-to-back days. A shootaround usually runs from 45 minutes to an hour, although Pat Riley and Phil Jackson are renowned for occasionally going two hours.

The Knicks' only schedule shootarounds on the road, which is one reason why D'Antoni is called a player's coach. But the Knicks' suspect home record the past two years, plus their struggles since adding Anthony and Billups, leave D'Antoni vulnerable to criticism. The Knicks are 19-16 at the Garden this season. They have a rabid fan base but hardly a home-court advantage.

We'll that answers what would Phil do.
Not even a meeting, walk through,

A power point?

Life is good when you get $6 mil to come up with excuses.

I don't do excuses!
 

STAT1

Starter
We'll that answers what would Phil do.
Not even a meeting, walk through,

A power point?

Life is good when you get $6 mil to come up with excuses.

I don't do excuses!

MDA is renown for his short practices, 45 minute sessions are not an anomaly with this head coach. He thinks that saving their legs gives them more energy to run his uptempo system. In some ways you can understand the logic but when your team is looking like crap because they can't get on the same page because of a lack of practice time you would think holding at least a walk through of some sort would be beneficial. Apparently MDA doesn't believe his team needs it.
 

Red

TYPE-A
This Thread Must Be Resurrected Until Mike Goes!

Just rereading some of this stuff makes me wanna say I told you so, but I wont...

Read it and weep.

More to come...
That's how Rajon Rondo made his bones. As a former shot-distributor in the ABA, NBA and Italy, it's unfathomable D'Antoni fails to grasp the intense difficulty to divide shots among Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to their satisfaction.
Finding a substitute for Billups would be impossible. Finding someone who specializes in blocked shots, defense and rebounding (two out of three ain't bad) would be next to impossible. Who can they secure for $8 million carved between two bigs, maybe three -- Samuel Dalembert, Reggie Evans, Kenyon Martin, Nazr Mohammed, Kwame Brown, Jeff Foster?
That's why it pays to stick with Billups. Yes, his salary puts the Knicks over the cap, but it solidifies the second most important position. And by keeping him, it permits the Knicks to use the $5 million mid-level exception (if the new CBA doesn't eliminate it) to split between two of the aforementioned players.

That brings us to D'Antoni's shaky status. Who cares that he took the Suns twice to the Western Conference finals? Alvin Gentry took the same talent there last season. What's important is how well D'Antoni coached the Knicks in the playoffs, with or without all his talent. Pretty lousy, from what I observed.
While we live in world of diminished expectations -- the Mysterious J. can attest to that -- D'Antoni lowered the limbo bar. Save for a couple stretches when I suspect the Celtics dozed rather than the Knicks dazzled, his team came home for two games and did not compete . . . and that simply does not compute.
"Boston today is a better team than we are in every sense of the word."

This quote was brought to you by a guy who's 50-50 to get outcoached by Kurt Rambis, Roy Rubin and Red Klotz. So, we have a franchise which has lost its last ten playoff games led by a (lame-duck?) coach who has lost 10 of his last 11.
D'Antoni doesn't deserve to get more time just because the Knicks tanked his first two seasons. This is his 17th on the sidelines. It's not like he figures to get better at the job if given more years. If he can't react to adverse situations now why prolong his stay just because he's owed $6 million? It's like keeping a player who stinks just because he's making important money.


The best time to evaluate a coach is when things go wrong, not when they're winning. When you're down and out, you've got to do something, think of something that's helpful. What did D'Antoni do of consequence for the Knicks when they were hurting and undermanned?

Melo and Amar'e got swept and look what they did? They were not rendered useless. D'Antoni was rendered useless.
After Sunday's column, I got an e-mail from a prominent former NBA coach. While he agreed D'Antoni "basically had been outcoached by Doc Rivers
, he's probably a little better than u had him in last article.
"Mike is essentially another Nellie (Don Nelson). Wants to coach a wide open game with no big men and then complains he never had a big man."

I don't believe for a silly second Walsh -- or Dolan, should he dictate the decision -- will do the right thing and ditch D'Antoni, especially following endorsements by Stoudemire (effusive) and Anthony (milquetoast).

(FYI: superstars are notorious for expressing one sentiment publicly and going the opposite way privately to management.)
Unlike Billups, D'Antoni would be easy to replace. Mark Jackson should've been hired initially. ABC-ESPN viewers are praying Jeff Van Gundy returns to the office. Mike Brown is unemployed. And Rick Adelman still wants to coach.

Look how the Rockets played the last two years without Yao Ming. I've yet to hear anyone knock his ability or say it wasn't fun playing for him.
Calm yourself; Thomas has no shot to resurrect his coaching or front office career with the Knicks. If he did, if Dolan was truly considering bringing him back, the False Prophet would not be trying to manipulate every influential journalist within the sound of his voice.
 
Top