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Thread: OFFICIAL: ANTI-D'Antoni Thread

  1. #196
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    That is a tongue and cheek comment you obtuse moron..

    The team is in early stages of developing. Why do you continue to over look that?? We start two rookies. What the hell do you want?

    Come next season you watch he'll have us around 13- 17 in the league in defensive points per 100 possessions. Any higher would be icing.

    And we've made progress which has helped us to be winning team this year. But you can't acknowledge that.. I just have accept that you can't acknowledge things that are outside your line of thinking.
    Of course it's tongue in cheek! This is like the other time MDA owned some of ko's pavlovian (rabied) dogs, where he made a clearly facetious remark about Moz going 20-15 and that he thought he might just have to play him sometime again.

    MDA is a funny dude, and quick with his quotes. Humor -- and picking up on it -- being one of the most clear, plain to decipher metrics for gauging the intelligence of someone, or lack thereof, and...well...(pause)...

    Is it any surprise that most people who believe premier, award-winning NBA coach Mike D'antoni (a defensive pro baller in his own right) doesn't like defense, know how to play defense, or teach defense....Also had to watch Gallo go to the line 15x/game for month before hesitantly declaring and letting everyone know that he might have more than one skill....

    Or that this crowd's mascot believes Herb Williams would save us and have us at .600



    These jibronies openly admit to not even watching videos proving their assertions wrong. Smh, loll...

    Videos....Lord have mercy if plain King's English text is written and asked to be read and comprehended.

    This is basically Rocky V.

    Clyde'sPearlNecklace is the mullet-haired meathead. The scummy charlatan promoter with the poorly styled fur coats (who actually thinks he's styling) and who pumps his ego up, then ditches him to get caned by Balboa in the end is Ginger..err, Red.

    As we know, the mullet haired punk got some smoke blown up his ass, thought he had the backing of a legitimate powerbroker, and greedily (ignorantly) kept stepping to Balboa. Despite no good reason, and the fata compli of a WWF smackdown.

  2. #197
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    Originally Posted by WrongIslander
    As for Stat's comments if he believed it why would he go back to MDA? Memory loss? Or maybe he went back a better player, a better man and a leader who could own up to his own faults and better himself by learning from them?
    You think 100 mill guaranteed had anything to do with STATS decision to reunite with MDA?

  3. #198
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StatVP
    I referenced pace which takes into account everything that you're talking about, offensively & defensively. The way we play offense dictates more possessions for our opponents as a natural byproduct, & defensive rating stat takes this into account as well. I understand what you're trying to argue here but my point is that the stat you are referencing already accounts for pace so the fact that MDA likes to play an uptempo has no bearing on this discussion.

    Look I'm not arguing that MDA doesn't know how to coach the game of basketball don't misunderstand my arguments here, I happen to think he's an excellent coach. What I'd like to see is this team getting into the habit of showing more of an emphasis on playing defense because we won't be able to play the same style of basketball we play in the regular season once the postseason rolls around for 48 minutes. The game changes & the pace slows exponentially in crunchtime of playoff games. This team needs to get into the habit of playing defense on every single possession until it becomes second nature. The onus lies on every single player on the roster ALONG with the head coach to practice what they preach. They can't keep talking about stepping up their effort defensively, talk is cheap. Like my sig says dude, Git 'Er Dun!
    This statement makes perfect sense when applied to our team drating:

    "That fact the stat adjusts for pace is the exact reason its relevant to our team due to how we play"

    If you think about the way we play, our offense does force teams to play our style. They have to play at our pace. Which means we'll have inflated points against numbers thruout a given season. But the fact d-rating eliminates pace as a factor for the teams we play against makes our d rating all the more relevant and more significant than other stats. It's saying here's what your doing on average against other teams defensively having adjusted for the fact you play a fast pace. It's a more accurate representation of how well we play defense, which is why it applies so well.

    So you're wrong. The fact we play a faster pace makes our D-rating more relevant.
    Last edited by ronoranina; Feb 20, 2011 at 22:51.

  4. #199
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    You think 100 mill guaranteed had anything to do with STATS decision to reunite with MDA?
    Doesn't strike me as a mercenary to be honest. Sure he wouldn't have signed without the money but I honestly believe (and didn't at the time so that speaks volumes) that he wanted to be the leader of a team and that he saw the Knicks as the place to do that and get paid. I have no problem with that as he's proven in word and deed he's the real deal as a leader.

    Do you think he's not happy? Do you think he's not excelling? Do you think he's hopefully waiting for MDA to get the boot?

  5. #200
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    That is a tongue and cheek comment you obtuse moron..

    The team is in early stages of developing. Why do you continue to over look that?? We start two rookies. What the hell do you want?

    Come next season you watch he'll have us around 13- 17 in the league in defensive points per 100 possessions. Any higher would be icing.

    And we've made progress which has helped us to be winning team this year. But you can't acknowledge that.. I just have accept that you can't acknowledge things that are outside your line of thinking.
    Tongue and cheek? You've reached a new low. Your spinning aint winning here bro.

    So the team is in its early stages of development. If this is so true how do you explain the overall offensive prowess of this team. I mean they're rated #2 in offense in the NBA. Please explain to us all why they're so good offensively, but struggle on defense if they're still developing so much.

    I doubt we'll improve this much, but 13th-17th wont be good enough for a chip. I think it was this thread where I pointed out all the teams but two that have won chips since 1973 or 1974 were rated top ten in defense.

    Ron if JVG had this same exact team would they play better defensively? Yes or No...

  6. #201
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    Originally Posted by WrongIslander
    Doesn't strike me as a mercenary to be honest. Sure he wouldn't have signed without the money but I honestly believe (and didn't at the time so that speaks volumes) that he wanted to be the leader of a team and that he saw the Knicks as the place to do that and get paid. I have no problem with that as he's proven in word and deed he's the real deal as a leader.

    Do you think he's not happy? Do you think he's not excelling? Do you think he's hopefully waiting for MDA to get the boot?
    I'm sure he's happy. You do know that if Phoenix had guaranteed the 100 mill STAT would be happy there also. He would have never made it here...

  7. #202
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    This statement makes perfect sense when applied to our team drating:

    "That fact the stat adjusts for pace is the exact reason its relevant to our team due to how we play"

    If you think about the way we play, our offense does force teams to play our style. They have to play at our pace. Which means we'll have inflated points against numbers thruout a given season. But the fact d-rating eliminates pace as a factor for the teams we play against makes our d rating all the more relevant and more relevant than other stats. It's saying here's what your doing on average against other teams defensively having adjusted for the fact you play a fast pace. It's a more accurate representation of how well we play defense, which is why it applies so well.
    Once again, I understand what the stat represents & realize that it is pre-adjusted for the pace at which a team plays at, but the fact is that D'Antoni's teams have never ranked any higher than middle of the pack when it comes to D Rating, which means his teams have never been ranked at the top defensively even with a couple elite defensive players playing on it & even with pace being factored into the equation. That's why I question this SSOL system he likes to run, it reminds me a lot of Rick Pitino's Knicks when I watch this team play, they like to get up & down the floor & get off quick shots in transition before the other team's defense has a chance to set up. Offensively it nets you a ton of points & makes for some exciting & entertaining basketball, but once you come up against a top defensive team that knows how to slow down the pace & take away your bread & butter, which for D'Antoni's offense is the PnR & perimeter shooting, then you're in trouble. I don't get the sense that this team is capable of overcoming teams once they take away our bread & butter, I haven't seen it all year. In my humble opinion, a good offense won't disguise most of your defensive deficiencies, but a good defense can overcome a lot of your offensive shortcomings.

  8. #203
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clyde & The Pearl
    Tongue and cheek? You've reached a new low. Your spinning aint winning here bro.

    So the team is in its early stages of development. If this is so true how do you explain the overall offensive prowess of this team. I mean they're rated #2 in offense in the NBA. Please explain to us all why they're so good offensively, but struggle on defense if they're still developing so much.

    I doubt we'll improve this much, but 13th-17th wont be good enough for a chip. I think it was this thread where I pointed out all the teams but two that have won chips since 1973 or 1974 were rated top ten in defense.

    Ron if JVG had this same exact team would they play better defensively? Yes or No...
    I'm not spinning dude. Anybody w the slightest modicum of intelligence can tell he was toying w the media there.

    Honestly C&TP. I can't argue w you anymore tnite. I've said where I stand clearly, posted evidence and debunked most of what you've been selling. Frankly I'm a bit tired & frustrated w you. Now I know how Kblack feels..

    But I will say this..

    Mike D made it to the conference finals twice and the the conf semifinals in three consecutive yrs w the Suns, w out a ten man rotation and a worse overall roster than we're likely to have if we get Melo and Paul along w Donnie making other shrewd acquisitions.

    If he gets enough talent to utilize a 10th man rotation, continues to grow in the area of D-rating, and our FO acquires Melo and Paul/ D-Will I think we can get alittle closer than those Suns teams. I believe maybe we can even win a chip. This is where I stand.

    And w the current roster I'm not sure we'd be that much better defensively w JVG, but we sure wouldn't score like we do. That much I can tell you.

    Well, yea we'd definitely be a little better. I can't front..
    Last edited by ronoranina; Feb 20, 2011 at 23:23.

  9. #204
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    on JVG: I think we'd be better defensively but not nearly as fluid on offense. We wouldn't be a .500 team. and honestly, without D'antoni, i'm not sure we get Amar'e to play here.

    I always liked JVG as a coach and thought he was great for the knicks. Tho many people called for his head early and often. NY is the most unforgiving city on it's head coaches. I think this is just par for the course really. Every knicks fan thinks he could do a better job as head coach.

  10. #205
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    Currently our team, using the Points Per Possession rating, is 21st in the league defensively (bottom third). They have a win differential is .4 a game (which I believe is a lot more telling). The differential tells me you are going to be right around the .500 mark if the law of averages hold. It also means, that games could go one way or another; aka, we could have just as easily lost more games than we won. Essentially, when we step on the court, it is a coin toss whether we win or not.

    That's not a good thing.

    So, we've played Amar'e 40 minutes a game, run him down, run down the rest of the team, for a record just barely over .500. The costs are not worth the mark, in my opinion, which is my problem with MDA's system.

    It will get only worse as the season runs along.

    MDA's system may be better in a 41 game season, but 82 games and play-offs... just don't think it happens.

    You look at teams like the Bulls, who have some better defensive players, but also boasts Carlos Boozer (who is playing MUCH better defense) because of the Coach. The Spurs are playing great defense, despite having a bunch of players that are average and below average defenders.

    Coaching makes a huge difference. D'Antoni has been credited as saying he is always going to try and outscore his opponents and worry about defensive later down the line, if at all. It's not a sustainable system for one or multiple championships.

  11. #206
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MusketeerX
    Currently our team, using the Points Per Possession rating, is 21st in the league defensively (bottom third). They have a win differential is .4 a game (which I believe is a lot more telling). The differential tells me you are going to be right around the .500 mark if the law of averages hold. It also means, that games could go one way or another; aka, we could have just as easily lost more games than we won. Essentially, when we step on the court, it is a coin toss whether we win or not.

    That's not a good thing.

    So, we've played Amar'e 40 minutes a game, run him down, run down the rest of the team, for a record just barely over .500. The costs are not worth the mark, in my opinion, which is my problem with MDA's system.

    It will get only worse as the season runs along.

    MDA's system may be better in a 41 game season, but 82 games and play-offs... just don't think it happens.

    You look at teams like the Bulls, who have some better defensive players, but also boasts Carlos Boozer (who is playing MUCH better defense) because of the Coach. The Spurs are playing great defense, despite having a bunch of players that are average and below average defenders.

    Coaching makes a huge difference. D'Antoni has been credited as saying he is always going to try and outscore his opponents and worry about defensive later down the line, if at all. It's not a sustainable system for one or multiple championships.
    Which is the reason implementing a 10 man rotation is so important if we're going to utilize this system.

  12. #207
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    Originally Posted by p0nder
    on JVG: I think we'd be better defensively but not nearly as fluid on offense. We wouldn't be a .500 team. and honestly, without D'antoni, i'm not sure we get Amar'e to play here.
    I disagree. IMHO I think we'd be at least five games better playing better defense with the current players. First of all every player that gets PT has proven to be more than capable offensively.

    Defense can facilitate offense. Offense cant facilitate defense.

  13. #208
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Which is the reason implementing a 10 man rotation is so important if we're going to utilize this system.
    I agree with you on this point, 1 of the reasons I have grown frustrated over MDA's coaching style is that he utilizes a short rotation and doesn't play guys that I think could help alleviate some of our rebounding needs. When I see MDA insist on playing Shawne Williams at the C position in certain rotations it frustrates the hell outta me. These guys are going to be worn out by the end of the season at this rate. Amare's walking around with ice packs on both his knees during the course of a game, it's ridiculous. We need to preserve these guys for the stretch run & give them a little bit of relief. MDA needs to do a better job of trusting some of the guys on our bench to play a little bit of a bigger role.

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    Trade Icon Melo will mean NOTHING without defense!!

    Anyway, two big stars can be quite enough, thank you. Oklahoma City is doing just fine with two, Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. The Utah Jazz did just fine for about a dozen years with two. Hell, Chicago has just one, Derrick Rose, and a terrific ensemble cast tearing up the league right now. The number of stars on hand ain't the Knicks' issue.

    But I know two things that are:

    The Knicks are lousy defensively and coach Mike D'Antoni is allergic to his own bench. These things aren't debatable. They're facts already entered into evidence.

    In fact, bad defense and a lack of depth are both things associated with D'Antoni teams, as in all of them. Talk to guys who played for the Suns during the terrific playoff runs Phoenix made to reach the Western Conference finals, and they'll tell you under oath that the Suns paid less attention to defense than any other good team in the league. The Suns and now the Knicks are going to try to outscore you, which is even more difficult in the Eastern Conference than it is in the West, and neither Stoudemire nor Anthony is overly concerned with defense. That's going to hurt, beginning in the short term, as in the stretch run and the playoffs this spring. Different as the top three teams in the Eastern Conference are, the one thing the Celtics, Heat and Bulls all have in common is they can shut you down. The Knicks ... not so much. Some of the pressure, then, is going to be on D'Antoni, who is going to have to find some reserves he can trust among the players already on hand. Take the aforementioned Mason, for instance. Yes, he fell off dramatically last year but was still good enough to play in 161 of 164 games the past two seasons for Gregg Popovich. It's unlikely he completely forgot how to play or shoot. Yet, under D'Antoni, Mason doesn't play at all. Ever. Eighty-two games two seasons ago, 10 games this season. D'Antoni is going to have to trust his bench and develop a player or two who are still unproven, perhaps Corey Brewer, perhaps Andy Rautins. In the meantime, he's going to have to rely on Shawne Williams (who, to be fair, has produced with a great shooting season), Shelden Williams, Toney Douglas and the like off the bench. Personally, I'll take the Knicks' reserves over what Miami has right now.
    I think we just traded all of Mike D'Antni's excuses. No wonder he was against this trade.

    Tic-Tock.....

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    I fully expect D'Antoni to be fired by the end of next year. We will not win a championship with this roster. Not even close. The coach will take the fall. Another coach will come in and we will not win a championship. That coach will be fired. And by then Melo and Amare's contracts are up.

    It's the endless cycle that is New York sports.

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