Options for next year

DrB

Benchwarmer
If you look at the league in general from MWP, Love, Amare, Jdue, Gallinari, Rose, Granger, K Mart, Wade, Nash, Noah, and on and on..THE SEASON IS TOO LONG especially with amount of physical play allowed. Look at the 1973 Knicks...TWIGS compared to todays team. So yes younger players will stay healthy but THEY WON'T WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS was the mind set going into this year. Older players on the cheap because of the AMARE< MELO< TSON...55,000,000 salary combo.
 

metrocard

Legend
Agreed, nobody on this board is such a scouting talent.

I'm better I'm just not showing my best cards.

Talent means your good at something.
The point of scouting is finding good players who will play a role in the NBA.

fine just researches undrafted free agents; guys who skill arent developed and don't really have a real strength to stand out in an extremely competitive league.
 

metrocard

Legend
I know they'd never do it like this but humor me for a minute.

Guaranteed contracts for next yr (8):

Amar'e
Melo
Chandler
Novak
Felton

Shumpert
Kidd
Camby

Needs:
? 2 PGs (preferably quick/athletic, capable of penetration & transition play)
? A bigger scoring 2 assuming JR Smith bolts
? More skilled size/depth up front
? More overall youth & athleticism
? Try to convince both Kidd & Camby to retire (buyouts coupled with offering front office positions maybe?)*

--------------------------------------------------------------
Step 1:

Maximize the draft. Think about trading down and grabbing 2 capable players for our 1st rounder.

? Trade our 2013 #1 (25 range) & cash to Cleveland for picks 32 & 33 and select:
- PG Pierre Jackson 5'10" 180 (Baylor)
- PF Cory Jefferson 6'9" 230 (Baylor) or Adreian Payne 6'10" 230 (Michigan State)

? Our 1st rounder (and cash if necessary) to Philly for picks 36 & 41

? Our #1 (and cash if necessary) to Portland for SG Will Barton and picks 39 & 46

? Our #1 to Phoenix for picks 34 & 52

** if we can't outright trade the pick, make the selection for whichever team at 25 and have them do the same. Same thing.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Step 2:

Resign JR Smith (seems unlikely now all of a sudden) and Chris Copeland.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Step 3:

Consider signing any of the following to league minimum deals:

Bigs:
Marcus Cousin 6'11.5" 255 (currently playing in Japan)
Jordan Williams 6'10" 260
JaJuan Johnson 6'10" 225
Brandon Davies 6'9" 235 (BYU) - summer league/training camp invite

Wings:
Jermaine Taylor 6'5" 210 (currently ripping up the D-League)
Jamelle Horne 6'7" 220 (former Arizona Wildcat, currently playing in Puerto Rico)
Scotty Hopson 6'7" 220 (former Tennessee Vol, currently playing in Israel)
Chris Douglas-Roberts 6'7" 210
Gary Flowers 6'8" 215
Austin Freeman 6'4" 230
Derrick Byars 6'7" 220
Sylven Landesberg 6'6" 210

PG:
Michael Loyd Jr. 6'1" 190 (former BYU Cougar/Midwestern State Mustang) - summer league/training camp invite
Curtis Jerrells 6'1" 195 (former Baylor Bear, Europe)

--------------------------------------------------------------

A roster I'd LOVE to see next year:

5 - Chandler
4 - Amar'e
3 - Melo
2 - Shumpert
1 - Felton
-----------------
Marcus Cousin
Cory Jefferson (or Adreian Payne)
Novak
Jermaine Taylor
Pierre Jackson
-----------------
Jordan Williams
Brandon Davies
Chris Copeland (or Jamelle Horne if Cope gets another deal we decide not to/can't match)
Scotty Hopson
Michael Loyd Jr.
-----------------
*Kidd
*Camby

Again, I know for a fact that they'd never come up with a blueprint exactly like this but I just wanted to point out that there are PLENTY of good viable options out there to get younger and more athletic while also increasing the team's overall skill level despite being over the cap. I was convinced before but never moreso than now since K-Mart came up with knee soreness that NBA basketball is a young man's game. I want a younger/more athletic/more talented roster next year to help us compete better with teams like Chicago, Indiana, Memphis, Oklahoma City, etc. To me the above roster has everything we'll need -- fulfills my younger/quicker/more athletic mandate; 2 PGs behind Felton that can continue to penetrate and play uptempo when Felton sits; 2 talented scoring wings in Jermaine Taylor and Scotty Hopson that can help replace JR Smith if he signs elsewhere; and plenty of youthful size, length and skill up front with Marcus Cousin, Cory Jefferson (or Adreian Payne), Jordan Williams and Brandon Davies to help us sustain a grueling 82-game schedule AND compete against the younger/bigger frontcourts of the NBA.

Marcus Cousin, Cory Jefferson, Jordan Williams, Jermaine Taylor, Scott Hopson and Brandon Daives are all 15th men in the NBA.

Some of these guys are young, and some are athletic.

but you're missing the most important aspect.

Their skill level and what level they can play and excel this team at. They're not good and never proven they can be good at an NBA level. They don't even dominate the leagues they play in.

I'd give you Jordan Williams. He's huge at 6"10 and over 260lbs. He has double double potential, but he's a horrible defender and he's very lazy and his work ethic has been question. Jordan would skip college classes, he didn't want to finish his college career(left after his sophomore year) , jumped early in the NBA Draft even though he was never projected to be a first round pick...Jordan doesn't want to go to Europe and develop his game which needs a lot of work. You got to look more into players than just their height, weight and age. Basketball goes beyond that.

Do you know of these guys work ethic?

If not, then you'll fall in love with the Josh Selbys of the world. Players who are young, athletic, but really got no game to contribute to the elite league that is the NBA.
 

Wargames

Starter
Reggie bullock is a sf who has a smooth shot and has played D against the best parameter players in the NCAa. He is also used to being a role player so he would fit in greatly. I see him being the Knicks thabo sefolosha/battier minus the long wingspan but with the ability to run over screens and shoot ala a rip Hamilton or ray Allen (not to say he can shoot anywhere near that level)

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Reggie-Bullock-5212/
 

finestrg

Rotation player
Reggie bullock is a sf who has a smooth shot and has played D against the best parameter players in the NCAa. He is also used to being a role player so he would fit in greatly. I see him being the Knicks thabo sefolosha/battier minus the long wingspan but with the ability to run over screens and shoot ala a rip Hamilton or ray Allen (not to say he can shoot anywhere near that level)

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Reggie-Bullock-5212/

I like him too. Great shooter with a quick trigger and a flawless-looking, effortless stroke from deep. The 3 ball's his bread and butter but he's far from a one-trick pony -- this kid can put it on the floor and get to the rim, he helps out on the glass and he's active defensively. Excellent call. :thumbsup:
 

nixon7

Benchwarmer
I would think about keeping JR Smith (we have the early Bird rights). I would keep our #1 draft pick. My draft board is Myck Kabongo, Gorgui Dieng, Steven Adams, Shane Larkin (in that order). One of these should be available in the mid-20s, as a backup PG or backup center. I really love Patric Young, but he is staying in school, and Dieng or Adams probably have more offensive upside. I would consider a trade to get another draft pick this year, in addition. Ideally, you fill both the backup PG and backup center positions with draft picks, if possible from the first round. I would definitely like to add Patric Young in the 2014 draft (I see him as a defensive PF in the Anthony Mason mold). I would also try to re-sign Copeland, I really like him. Re-signing Kenyon Martin would also be good, assuming he is not offered a large contract by someone else.
 

metrocard

Legend
I would think about keeping JR Smith (we have the early Bird rights). I would keep our #1 draft pick. My draft board is Myck Kabongo, Gorgui Dieng, Steven Adams, Shane Larkin (in that order). One of these should be available in the mid-20s, as a backup PG or backup center. I really love Patric Young, but he is staying in school, and Dieng or Adams probably have more offensive upside. I would consider a trade to get another draft pick this year, in addition. Ideally, you fill both the backup PG and backup center positions with draft picks, if possible from the first round. I would definitely like to add Patric Young in the 2014 draft (I see him as a defensive PF in the Anthony Mason mold). I would also try to re-sign Copeland, I really like him. Re-signing Kenyon Martin would also be good, assuming he is not offered a large contract by someone else.

If we get Dieng, we would be very lucky. He's only been playing basketball for 4 years.

Consider he already averages double digit points and is a great defensive player and rebounder; he would be a steal for us and a great successor for Chandler. He's 6"11 I believe.
 

nixon7

Benchwarmer
If we get Dieng, we would be very lucky. He's only been playing basketball for 4 years.

Consider he already averages double digit points and is a great defensive player and rebounder; he would be a steal for us and a great successor for Chandler. He's 6"11 I believe.

A bit of luck would be required to score Dieng, but he is ranked 24 on the ESPN big board so it is at least possible.

Steven Adams is more probable, not the shot blocker or offensive player that Dieng is. Jeff Withey is also possible, good offensively and blocks shots, rebounding is not great but improved every year. Lucas Nogueira is also possible, although he would be better to acquire as a 2nd round pick.

Dieng is clearly the best option among the bigs for the Knicks because he has upside on the offensive end but is still a monster on the defensive end. We could also end up quite happy with Withey or Adams.

I really like Kabongo at the PG because of his low turnovers and high IQ/vision/leadership. I like him more (for the Knicks) than some PGs with better stats because of this. Unfortunately, Kabongo may stay in school, although the Knicks should keep him in mind for the 2014 draft, along with Patric Young.
 

metrocard

Legend
A bit of luck would be required to score Dieng, but he is ranked 24 on the ESPN big board so it is at least possible.

Steven Adams is more probable, not the shot blocker or offensive player that Dieng is. Jeff Withey is also possible, good offensively and blocks shots, rebounding is not great but improved every year. Lucas Nogueira is also possible, although he would be better to acquire as a 2nd round pick.

Dieng is clearly the best option among the bigs for the Knicks because he has upside on the offensive end but is still a monster on the defensive end. We could also end up quite happy with Withey or Adams.

I really like Kabongo at the PG because of his low turnovers and high IQ/vision/leadership. I like him more (for the Knicks) than some PGs with better stats because of this. Unfortunately, Kabongo may stay in school, although the Knicks should keep him in mind for the 2014 draft, along with Patric Young.

Could we trade Felton for a first round pick?

I would go with Kabongo and Deng and let them develop under Prigioni/Kidd/Martin/Wallace
 

Wargames

Starter
Of all these bigs how agile/mobile are they meaning how good would they be if they had to come out on the perimeter to guard someone defensively and do they have any form of outside shot. The system the knicks runs requires a guy like Tyson or K-Mart to be able to go to the high post to set up the offensive horns play. To elaborate the knicks system as it is currently set up would be better served by a pau gasol type player (minus the softness of course) than a Dwight type player (once again minus the softness. Also I wonder will they bring up Sims who has averaged 14/9 in the D League.
 

metrocard

Legend
Of all these bigs how agile/mobile are they meaning how good would they be if they had to come out on the perimeter to guard someone defensively and do they have any form of outside shot. The system the knicks runs requires a guy like Tyson or K-Mart to be able to go to the high post to set up the offensive horns play. To elaborate the knicks system as it is currently set up would be better served by a pau gasol type player (minus the softness of course) than a Dwight type player (once again minus the softness. Also I wonder will they bring up Sims who has averaged 14/9 in the D League.

14/9 in the D-League is pretty low production.
 

nixon7

Benchwarmer
As far as the bigs, what I am looking for is toughness, as in Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, and Kenyon Martin. The Knicks do not need more of the same role players they already have. They need toughness, shot blocking, and rebounding. All the bigs I mentioned fit that bill, first and foremost.
 

Wargames

Starter
14/9 in the D-League is pretty low production.

Your right but he's had some really good games so I expect him to get another summer league look

As far as the bigs, what I am looking for is toughness, as in Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, and Kenyon Martin. The Knicks do not need more of the same role players they already have. They need toughness, shot blocking, and rebounding. All the bigs I mentioned fit that bill, first and foremost.

They might but a lot of teams need that I don't think any of the decent centers fall all the way down to 24. This is going to be a center heavy draft but there is only about 8 good center with potential that look like they can contribute anytime soon.
 

nixon7

Benchwarmer
They might but a lot of teams need that I don't think any of the decent centers fall all the way down to 24. This is going to be a center heavy draft but there is only about 8 good center with potential that look like they can contribute anytime soon.

I am going by the ESPN draft big board. According to that, Withey, Dieng, and Adams are 6, 7, and 8 on the center rankings and 23, 24, and 28 on the overall rankings. The Knicks would currently pick 24th (25th if they pass the Clippers) so I think that there is a good chance to at least score Adams, if Withey and Dieng are gone. In any case, I would fill the PG with Kabongo if he is available first. It is possible that he will go back to school and that all three of my target centers are also gone, in which case I probably go with Shane Larkin, or the best player available at any position otherwise.

I suppose that a trade up or trade to score an additional pick is also possible, but not clearly needed at this point. I would hesitate to trade anyone currently signed for next year for a draft pick unless it were a lottery pick. Getting another pick below #20 for a current proven player is not a clear win, although I can see the argument for Camby or Kidd for a pick in the #14 to #25 range, but this is more compelling to me only if it meant a clear upgrade in both the backup PG and backup center positions.

Trading their pick and either Camby or Kidd for a lottery pick I can also see. I would not trade Felton or any of the other guaranteed contracts for less than a top ten pick. Even in the top five there have been plenty of draft busts, and below five there have been some jewels (Paul Pierce, etc.) but it really starts to get hit or miss.

If the Knicks fail to make it to at least game 6 of the second round playoffs this year, then I might reconsider this position.
 

tiger0330

Legend
I am going by the ESPN draft big board. According to that, Withey, Dieng, and Adams are 6, 7, and 8 on the center rankings and 23, 24, and 28 on the overall rankings. The Knicks would currently pick 24th (25th if they pass the Clippers) so I think that there is a good chance to at least score Adams, if Withey and Dieng are gone. In any case, I would fill the PG with Kabongo if he is available first. It is possible that he will go back to school and that all three of my target centers are also gone, in which case I probably go with Shane Larkin, or the best player available at any position otherwise.

I suppose that a trade up or trade to score an additional pick is also possible, but not clearly needed at this point. I would hesitate to trade anyone currently signed for next year for a draft pick unless it were a lottery pick. Getting another pick below #20 for a current proven player is not a clear win, although I can see the argument for Camby or Kidd for a pick in the #14 to #25 range, but this is more compelling to me only if it meant a clear upgrade in both the backup PG and backup center positions.

Trading their pick and either Camby or Kidd for a lottery pick I can also see. I would not trade Felton or any of the other guaranteed contracts for less than a top ten pick. Even in the top five there have been plenty of draft busts, and below five there have been some jewels (Paul Pierce, etc.) but it really starts to get hit or miss.

If the Knicks fail to make it to at least game 6 of the second round playoffs this year, then I might reconsider this position.
Great post. Love the knowledge and expertise you bring to KOL.
 
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