I still want Dantoni Fired, after 5 straight wins

Kiyaman

Legend
It may seem strange on how a long time Knick-fan enjoyed the Knicks
5 game winning streak beating 4 of the teams while on the road would
want the Knicks headcoach Dantoni FIRED, after such repeated winning
performances to make us a .500 record team (8-8).
Why? Why? Why?

Poor substitutions, poor player development, players playingtime, no design
system on offense/defense, no set duties for the center, and the defense
is set on individual player performance without a defensive system to fall
back on for stops (we have been losing to many big leads in games).
Why?
There are 14 teams with above .500 records we have not faced yet, we
only beat one .500 team this season. I dont see Dantoni so-call coaching
style having any luck at beating 25% of teams above the .500 record.

We need a headcoach that will get the best out of each player, while
playing each player to his best potential. This way we would know all
our "keepers" before the February trading deadline. I already see Dantoni's
plan of shortening the 10 man rotation to 7 players after 4 weeks into the
regular season. We are a young team of "role-players" who will benefit from
a 9+man rotation.

u can add or debate before December 30th Orlando Magic game
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
While D'Antoni has made me angry many times, and still has a lot to prove, we haven't been just on a nice streak, but he DID change the style of offense that's better suited for this team, a style he should have been doing since he got here.
 

MSGhobo247

Rotation player
You said it yourself... we haven't faced them yet... Lets play them first then see what happens.

... also... we aren't cutting the rotation to anything less then 9 players... 7 players?!?!... even if they are all elite all-stars in top shape... They couldn't play 48 min for a couple weeks let alone a season and still be productive... This game is a marathon.
 
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Paul1355

All Star
It may seem strange on how a long time Knick-fan enjoyed the Knicks
5 game winning streak beating 4 of the teams while on the road would
want the Knicks headcoach Dantoni FIRED, after such repeated winning
performances to make us a .500 record team (8-8).
Why? Why? Why?

Poor substitutions, poor player development, players playingtime, no design
system on offense/defense, no set duties for the center, and the defense
is set on individual player performance without a defensive system to fall
back on for stops (we have been losing to many big leads in games).
Why?
There are 14 teams with above .500 records we have not faced yet, we
only beat one .500 team this season. I dont see Dantoni so-call coaching
style having any luck at beating 25% of teams above the .500 record.

We need a headcoach that will get the best out of each player, while
playing each player to his best potential. This way we would know all
our "keepers" before the February trading deadline. I already see Dantoni's
plan of shortening the 10 man rotation to 7 players after 4 weeks into the
regular season. We are a young team of "role-players" who will benefit from
a 9+man rotation.

u can add or debate before December 30th Orlando Magic game
i hope i had it wrong with this guy and this team finally knows how to win consistently with higher percentage shots, hustle and smart defense but we are exactly like the old Suns teams.

We are top 5 in offense and bottom 5 on defense, we are only good at shotblocking as far as i know

If we had Mozgov and Turiaf getting more rebounds then we will be even better. second chance points kill our team so we have to avoid that.

I still want Mike D fired because we are still not a defensive minded team, we just either give up an easy shot or stuff it. Really all about the desire to put all your energy on both ends of the floor. We can't win a championship with no defense!

These players want to win, and u can see them just doing anything to win games now.

I hope Mike D realizes that the team needs better shot selection, start the game driving and drawing fouls, try the open three to see if it gets knocked down, if we are bricking outside shots, dont look for it anymore, simple.
 

KBlack25

Starter
It may seem strange on how a long time Knick-fan enjoyed the Knicks
5 game winning streak beating 4 of the teams while on the road would
want the Knicks headcoach Dantoni FIRED, after such repeated winning
performances to make us a .500 record team (8-8).
Why? Why? Why?

Poor substitutions, poor player development, players playingtime, no design
system on offense/defense, no set duties for the center, and the defense
is set on individual player performance without a defensive system to fall
back on for stops (we have been losing to many big leads in games).
Why?
There are 14 teams with above .500 records we have not faced yet, we
only beat one .500 team this season. I dont see Dantoni so-call coaching
style having any luck at beating 25% of teams above the .500 record.

We need a headcoach that will get the best out of each player, while
playing each player to his best potential. This way we would know all
our "keepers" before the February trading deadline. I already see Dantoni's
plan of shortening the 10 man rotation to 7 players after 4 weeks into the
regular season. We are a young team of "role-players" who will benefit from
a 9+man rotation.

u can add or debate before December 30th Orlando Magic game

If you are going to make a thread and post this statement, at least be specific.

Which poor player development?

Who's playing time did you have an issue with?

Which poor substitutions?

It will be easier for everyone involved to understand your arguments, which even you must admit are at times long-winded muddled diatribes, if you make statements with more specificity.
 

Blumatic

Rotation player
i hope i had it wrong with this guy and this team finally knows how to win consistently with higher percentage shots, hustle and smart defense but we are exactly like the old Suns teams.

We are top 5 in offense and bottom 5 on defense, we are only good at shotblocking as far as i know

If we had Mozgov and Turiaf getting more rebounds then we will be even better. second chance points kill our team so we have to avoid that.

I still want Mike D fired because we are still not a defensive minded team, we just either give up an easy shot or stuff it. Really all about the desire to put all your energy on both ends of the floor. We can't win a championship with no defense!

These players want to win, and u can see them just doing anything to win games now.

I hope Mike D realizes that the team needs better shot selection, start the game driving and drawing fouls, try the open three to see if it gets knocked down, if we are bricking outside shots, dont look for it anymore, simple.

Our shot selection is much better. I'm not mad that D'antoni's scheme relies on threes more than other coaches but he knows that they cant live and die by it. And the Knicks have found a great balance. We go to the line a lot. So we drive a lot.

Our defense is really predicated on our efficiency on offense. Every game for three quarters we play well, but in the 4th where our oppenents play that dangerous desparation basketball and our offense turns ugly, we cough up the ball or miss a shot then the other team starts running.

We need a closer more than anything. In game 7 of the NBA Finals we all know defense wasnt an issue for both teams. Celtics had a double digit lead in the 4th because they could not execute on offense. But the Lakers were able to at the end of the game. And Kobe really couldnt do anything. It was all Artest.

This was losing to bad teams earlier. Now we are showing that we are better than those kind of teams. When we face better teams we will be exposed but I think we will cure those ills. D'antoni has passed phase 1. Phase 2 is to close out games. Phase 3 will be oue defense. Defense comes first but we have to establish our strength which is our offense.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
It may seem strange on how a long time Knick-fan enjoyed the Knicks
5 game winning streak beating 4 of the teams while on the road would
want the Knicks headcoach Dantoni FIRED, after such repeated winning
performances to make us a .500 record team (8-8).
Why? Why? Why?

Poor substitutions, poor player development, players playingtime, no design
system on offense/defense, no set duties for the center, and the defense
is set on individual player performance without a defensive system to fall
back on for stops (we have been losing to many big leads in games).
Why?
There are 14 teams with above .500 records we have not faced yet, we
only beat one .500 team this season. I dont see Dantoni so-call coaching
style having any luck at beating 25% of teams above the .500 record.

We need a headcoach that will get the best out of each player, while
playing each player to his best potential. This way we would know all
our "keepers" before the February trading deadline. I already see Dantoni's
plan of shortening the 10 man rotation to 7 players after 4 weeks into the
regular season. We are a young team of "role-players" who will benefit from
a 9+man rotation.

u can add or debate before December 30th Orlando Magic game

Great post. I completely agree.

The Knicks are 8-8 against sub .500 teams.

If the Knicks can only manage a .500 record against low performing teams, imagine how bad it's going to be, once the Knicks play good teams?

And the Knicks would be below .500, had they played the game against the Magic that got cancelled.

I'm happy about the 5 game winning streak, but I also remember that the Knicks were 8-8 two years ago, and they finished the season 29-53.

One winning streak isn't going to convince me.

The Knicks are going to have to play like this for another 3 weeks, before I'm convinced.

With that being said, I hope the Knicks do make the playoffs, because I'm tired of the Knicks losing, but D'Antoni sucks as a coach, so I doubt this will happen.

The Knicks have the talent to win, but not with a crappy coach like D'Antoni.
 

StreetDreams21

I got Soul
Great post. I completely agree.

The Knicks are 8-8 against sub .500 teams.

If the Knicks can only manage a .500 record against low performing teams, imagine how bad it's going to be, once the Knicks play good teams?

And the Knicks would be below .500, had they played the game against the Magic that got cancelled.

I'm happy about the 5 game winning streak, but I also remember that the Knicks were 8-8 two years ago, and they finished the season 29-53.

One winning streak isn't going to convince me.

The Knicks are going to have to play like this for another 3 weeks, before I'm convinced.

With that being said, I hope the Knicks do make the playoffs, because I'm tired of the Knicks losing, but D'Antoni sucks as a coach, so I doubt this will happen.

The Knicks have the talent to win, but not with a crappy coach like D'Antoni.

Because Portland, Boston, and Chicago are sub-500 teams. You act like every single team we play is bad. As well as Milwaukee and Golden State who may not have the best record but are still great teams in themselves. Since we changed our offensive scheme fro SSOL to the Triangle, we've been 6-1 with that sole loss coming by 2 points in Denver. I know our schedule hasn't been the toughest but going 4-1 on a 5-game road stretch is solid and a positive for any team. You may be right in saying we may have to wait a little more to see how this team gels, but don't rush to assumptions so quickly. Our coach may not be the greatest in the world but he changed our offense and so far it's been working.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Because Portland, Boston, and Chicago are sub-500 teams. You act like every single team we play is bad. As well as Milwaukee and Golden State who may not have the best record but are still great teams in themselves. Since we changed our offensive scheme fro SSOL to the Triangle, we've been 6-1 with that sole loss coming by 2 points in Denver. I know our schedule hasn't been the toughest but going 4-1 on a 5-game road stretch is solid and a positive for any team. You may be right in saying we may have to wait a little more to see how this team gels, but don't rush to assumptions so quickly. Our coach may not be the greatest in the world but he changed our offense and so far it's been working.

The Knicks Lost to 2 of those 3 teams you mentioned. The win over the Bulls was without Carlos Boozer(the second best player and most experienced player on the Bulls).

The Knicks beat the Clippers without Baron Davis and Chris Kaman.
The Knicks beat the Warriors without David Lee.
The Knicks beat a sub .500 Bobcats team twice.
The Knicks beat a sub .500 Kings team.
The Knicks beat a sub .500 Raptors team.
The Knicks beat a sub .500 Wizards team.

Enuff said.

Kiyaman knows what he's talking about.

He knows more about the Knicks than anyone on here. He's been watching the Knicks since the 70s.

He knows his stuff.

I've been watching the Knicks since the late 90s. I know my stuff.

This team is beating crappy teams. The only team they beat that's over .500 is a Bulls team that was missing their All Star power forward(Carlos Boozer).

People in here need to stop getting their head gassed over a winning streak.

All 30 NBA teams have winning streaks. The NBA has the best players in the world. You can't judge a team on one winning streak.

You judge them on what they have produced over the years, and D'Antoni has produced nothing for the Knicks.

An 8-8 record is not going to get the Knicks to the playoffs, because a season is 82 games, not 16.

P.S.-The Knicks were 8-8 two years ago, and they finished the season 29-53.
 
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BleedOrange&Blue

Benchwarmer
The Knicks Lost to 2 of those 3 teams you mentioned. The win over the Bulls was without Carlos Boozer(the second best player and most experienced player on the Bulls).

The Knicks beat the Clippers without Baron Davis and Chris Kaman.
The Knicks beat the Warriors without David Lee.
The Knicks beat a sub .500 Bobcats team twice.
The Knicks beat a sub .500 Kings team.
The Knicks beat a sub .500 Raptors team.
The Knicks beat a sub .500 Wizards team.

Enuff said.

Kiyaman knows what he's talking about.

He knows more about the Knicks than anyone on here. He's been watching the Knicks since the 70s.

He knows his stuff.

I've been watching the Knicks since the late 90s. I know my stuff.

This team is beating crappy teams. The only team they beat that's over .500 is a Bulls team that was missing their All Star power forward(Carlos Boozer).

People in here need to stop getting their head gassed over a winning streak.

All 30 NBA teams have winning streaks. The NBA has the best players in the world. You can't judge a team on one winning streak.

You judge them on what they have produced over the years, and D'Antoni has produced nothing for the Knicks.

An 8-8 record is not going to get the Knicks to the playoffs, because a season is 82 games, not 16.

P.S.-The Knicks were 8-8 two years ago, and they finished the season 29-53.

I agree with your analysis and that of Kiya's, We are winning which is good and all but the way we are winning does not bode well for the future. Too many people on this forum are results oriented. While I hate "moral victories" they exist in some capacity. There is also such a thing as a "poor win." And thats what Kiya and ABCD are describing.

We are beating scrubby teams. We are giving up double digit leads in the fourth. We are improving in some defensive stats but overall we are giving up a ton of points and relying way to much on our offense. We cannot realistically hope to score 115-120 points a night.

I disagree however that D'Anonti should be fired, simply because this is a D'Antoni team and its only been 16 games. Our best player Amare is most comfortable playing in his uptempo and free flowing system and doesn't have the tools (such as post moves) to play a traditional eastern conference slow paced game.

D'Antoni has 10 new players to coach, and needs to tweak his rotations and offensive strategies, this all takes time. We are basically like the Miami heat. We got a ton of talent that we have to figure out how to properly utilize. The are also mediocre 8-7 an have had the same unproven coach for the last couple of years. Nobody is panicking there and there should be no reason to panic here.

I am not a D'Antoni supporter by any means and when we had the choice between Avery Johnson and him I was Avery all the way. But it is what is, and theres not a whole lot that can change that. If the Knicks do not make the playoffs, then I am all for finding a new coach at the end of the season and crossing my fingers that D'Antoni goes back to Europe.

Otherwise if we are impressive in the playoffs despite probably losing in the first round to Miami or Orlando, and we Sign Melo then we might as well bite the bullet and ride out the last year of D'Antoni's contract, and finish what we started which was building the Phoenix Suns East and see where it takes us. Even if it means having to deal with this Euro-trash uptempo import for another 1 and 1/2 seasons.

And what defensive minded head coach would want to inherit a team completely built for D'Antoni's style? The last time we brought in a defensive coach (Larry Brown) with crappy defensive players we had the worst season ever.
 
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Ale11

Rookie
5 losing game streak -> fire d'antoni.
5 winning game streak -> fire d'antoni.

Something wrong.

The title of this forum is "New York Knicks Fan Forums"...

My question is: what are you doing here?
 

Kiyaman

Legend
a distraction response

5 losing game streak -> fire d'antoni.
5 winning game streak -> fire d'antoni.

Something wrong.

The title of this forum is "New York Knicks Fan Forums"...

My question is: what are you doing here?


Hush hush hush, us adults are discussing a nonstrategic headcoach
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
The Knicks Lost to 2 of those 3 teams you mentioned. The win over the Bulls was without Carlos Boozer(the second best player and most experienced player on the Bulls).

The Knicks beat the Clippers without Baron Davis and Chris Kaman.
The Knicks beat the Warriors without David Lee.
The Knicks beat a sub .500 Bobcats team twice.
The Knicks beat a sub .500 Kings team.
The Knicks beat a sub .500 Raptors team.
The Knicks beat a sub .500 Wizards team.

Enuff said.

Kiyaman knows what he's talking about.

He knows more about the Knicks than anyone on here. He's been watching the Knicks since the 70s.

He knows his stuff.

I've been watching the Knicks since the late 90s. I know my stuff.

This team is beating crappy teams. The only team they beat that's over .500 is a Bulls team that was missing their All Star power forward(Carlos Boozer).

People in here need to stop getting their head gassed over a winning streak.

All 30 NBA teams have winning streaks. The NBA has the best players in the world. You can't judge a team on one winning streak.

You judge them on what they have produced over the years, and D'Antoni has produced nothing for the Knicks.

An 8-8 record is not going to get the Knicks to the playoffs, because a season is 82 games, not 16.

P.S.-The Knicks were 8-8 two years ago, and they finished the season 29-53.

Yes, obviously. The point was you claimed we earned a .500 record playing scrub teams when you were clearly wrong. Our record is a result of playing some fairly good teams as well.

P.S. The length you watch a team has no bearing on your basketball knowledge. I have been watching since the 80's, does that automatically make me more knowledgeable then you and anyone else who started in 90'? SImply put, Kiya for the most part doesn't know what he is talking about. He admits he is dominated by pessimism since 1999 and it clouds his judgment and objectivity. Reference his longing for Darko, Z. Randolph and Earl Barron for proof.

P.P.S. BTW, your predictions and negativity were wrong. The Knicks took both games against the Bobcats. At what point do you start becoming positive about the team you say you are fan of? 10 game winning streak? 20?
 

KBlack25

Starter
P.S.-The Knicks were 8-8 two years ago, and they finished the season 29-53.

They also traded their two best players that season in the middle of the year, which won't happen this year. So can't really make a fair comparison.
 

moneyg

Starter
what is FAN short for.....

5 losing game streak -> fire d'antoni.
5 winning game streak -> fire d'antoni.

Something wrong.

The title of this forum is "New York Knicks Fan Forums"...

My question is: what are you doing here?

a fan is also responsible for expressing their views. dislikes about the team.. ways we think can improve our team.. our opinion..


i dont know a fan for any team that doesnt critize something about them.

i personally dont really like O'antoni's style of coaching.

but i am positive about our direction.

we have to beat the teams we are suppose to beat because the league is bad.. besides the top teams

if we were to beat all good teams too we would be a top team...not a 6-8 seed which is probably were we will end up....and i would be ok with.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Yes, obviously. The point was you claimed we earned a .500 record playing scrub teams when you were clearly wrong. Our record is a result of playing some fairly good teams as well.

P.S. The length you watch a team has no bearing on your basketball knowledge. I have been watching since the 80's, does that automatically make me more knowledgeable then you and anyone else who started in 90'? SImply put, Kiya for the most part doesn't know what he is talking about. He admits he is dominated by pessimism since 1999 and it clouds his judgment and objectivity. Reference his longing for Darko, Z. Randolph and Earl Barron for proof.

P.P.S. BTW, your predictions and negativity were wrong. The Knicks took both games against the Bobcats. At what point do you start becoming positive about the team you say you are fan of? 10 game winning streak? 20?

The Knicks lost to the Houston Rockets without Yao Ming and Aaron Brooks, the Knicks lost to the Timberwolves without Johnny Flynn and Martel Webster, the Knicks lost to a sub .500 Warriors team at home, the Knicks lost to the Philadelphia 76ers without Andre Iguodala.

In fact, 14 of the first 16 games the Knicks have played has come against injured and/or lottery bound teams.

So where's all these competitive games you're talking about?

As for what it's going to take for me to believe in the Knicks, I already mentioned this in my previous post.

If the Knicks can play like how they are doing now for the next 3 weeks, then I'll believe in this team.

My predictions and negativity were wrong?

I predicted D'Antoni wasn't going to do anything for the Knicks, the minute he got hired.

What has he done for the Knicks, thus far? Where are all these playoff appearances?

Has he even matched or beat Isiah Thomas' 33 win season with Eddy Curry as the star of the team, back in '07?

Oh, wait. He hasn't.

P.S.- Kiyaman has been watching this team since the 70s, and most of his posts are true.
The Knicks are giving up an average of 108 points, in this winning streak, despite playing lottery teams in all of their five wins.

Just because you have a crush on D'Antoni doesn't make it untrue.
 
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abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
They also traded their two best players that season in the middle of the year, which won't happen this year. So can't really make a fair comparison.

Weren't you the one who supported those trades?

If you support D'Antoni, Walsh, and all those trades, then you can't really say anything.

P.S.-The Knicks were 8-8, after Crawford and Randolph were already traded.
 

KBlack25

Starter
Weren't you the one who supported those trades?

If you support D'Antoni, Walsh, and all those trades, then you can't really say anything.

P.S.-The Knicks were 8-8, after Crawford and Randolph were already traded.

Actually, I did not support both trades. I thought we got fleeced in the Randolph deal for a guy who put up 20/10 nightly.

Why can't I say anything even if I DID support the trades? All I'm saying is we were on a roll with Crawford and Randolph and moved them to try and get under the cap. I am merely pointing out it's difficult to make a fair analogy to two years ago when guys were playing to be traded, as opposed to playing to win. We aren't now going to look to trade Stoudemire, Gallinari, Chandler or Felton for cap space, as we did with ZBo and Craw.

Also: can we stop with the "He's been watching the Knicks since the '70s, he knows what he is talking about" line of logic? The two clauses do not follow. Trill has been watching since the 80s, does that mean he knows more than you? I bet you would say "No". I have been watching since the early '90s, and you since the late 90s, does that mean I know more than you? I bet you would say "No". The logic is completely and utterly flawed. I don't care if Kiya has been watching since the 1920s, that in and of itself does not make him more knowledgeable.

I asked him to dilineate which instances SPECIFICALLY he had issue with, so I can better understand his argument. He hasn't done so. Knowing that he thinks the substitutions are bad does not help, WHICH substitutions, and WHEN, and WHY would be helpful in understanding exactly what the issue is. He says there is "poor player development" - WHICH players are being developed poorly, specifically, and what exactly would his remedy be?

For example: I think benching Randolph right now is a stupid move, I disagree with it. That's my personal opinion. The kid is young, raw and needs time to develop. If THAT is what Kiya is upset about, then yes I agree. But these glossy, overarching arguments with no specificity are too broad to really have any positive value.
 
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