can eddie and zach mix?

metrocard

Legend
lets start.... to start a season generally speaking you give the big money players the opportunity to start and if they dont pull their weight they get benched. i dont know what fantasy world youre living in but the NBA is run by money. unless its someone coming off serious injury like penny, the higher paid stars will play first. sure isiah threw jeffries in there when he could to see how it would work, he was a big free agent signing. we saw he didnt play well and his playing time was cut. how fucking psychic as well as negative are you to be able to predict how curry and zach will mesh? youve never seen them play before in your life, you dont know what curry worked on in the offseason. and noone gives a fuck about crawford really. hes a small small part of our team. david lee will still get his 20-30 minutes a game which is when hes effective anyway. q IF HEALTHY hopefully will get his playing time. Your shit about the IR is stupid, all teams do that. Were not the first and not the last to do shit like that. your point about the garden brawl is the stupidest shit i ever heard. if they really hated isiah would they give a shit if they were getting their ass kicked? Wrong. They were pissed cuz they care about the team and their coach and didnt like getting showed up.

Seriously dude, if you never have anything relevant AND positive to say, just save yourself the trouble, go buy a nice fresh KG jersey and join a celtics forum.

lol.

How do you KNOW Randolph and Curry will mesh? For you to question anyone that as if you know the answer is funny, because thats a question that can go both ways.

What we know is that Randolph is a horrid defender. Thats not a positive since we don't have any interior defense. Thats a fact that is undisputable.

We also know Randolph is a 20 ppg scorer who's an isolation player. That means more one on one ball domination than team ball rotation. This is what seperates us from great teams like Detroit, San Antonio and Phoneix. They move the ball around effectively. Having a 20 ppg scorer at each position doesn't really help when no one is passing.

Lets think of exercising. What Isiah is doing is isolation exercises. Isiah did 5 sets of 12 dumbbell curls on a daily basis. He's only working out one part of the body. What about the legs, back or core, or just a full body work out? We could say the same about our interior defense, ball movement, and turnovers. Isiah isn't working out or improving the Knicks at these things he has ignored his time as a GM; which is the main reason why we have so many holes in our team. He's just working out the same thing over and over. His plan has failed him, but yet he continues to choose the same path of isolation one on one players; expecting success. 20-30 wins isn't success. I don't see Randolph as a guy known for winning, defense and being the vocal point of a great offense; Blazers had one of the worst offenses in the NBA.

Knicks should of been a 40 win team the last season if Isiah didn't have so many blunders as a GM.

Whats good with all the bashing and calling people stupid? It isn't really helping your argument at all; actually its dumbing down your defense.

Why aren't you guys upset at Isiah for ignoring out weaknesses and keeping us from being a good team? You get upset at people who disapprove of Isiah ignoring the weaknesses each season because you believe they're haters; which shows more personal bias than logic.

Props to Kiyaman to not resorting to your immaturity.
 

pyotrveliky

Rotation player
i didnt say that zach and curry are gonna mesh just that we dont know that they wont, im just tired of people bashing especially when we havent even played a game with our new team yet. obviously isiah has made some dumb moves and im not defending them but if youre a knick fan at least have some optimism that something will work before you jump to bashing it. i am upset that isiah isnt improving the team but realistically how many moves can he make. i dont give him a free ride but considering the talented players tha we do have and the fact that we dont have many trading pieces we are willing to part with, theres not much more he can do short of cut players (which im not opposed to). hopefully an artest move will come soon after the 2 month wait on the new guys. i never called him stupid, just his point about the IL. i did call him negative and i stand by that.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
All of the Sports commentators did not believe that Channing Frye would've been offered the chance this offseason to be on the "Select Team", because they all quoted, "at the end of last season Channing Frye was on the IR list". ??????

Another sour note is the position Channing Frye has been playing on the "Select Team" that alot of members in this forum wanted Coach Zeke to play Frye at this season, which is the Center Position as Eddy Curry backup since the two was not doing so well together on the court.
Channing Frye has been playing well as a Defensive Center on the "Select Team" this offseason. Its bad when we Knick-Fans know that Frye playingtime this past season he was BARRED from playing in the paint.

I do not know how well the Curry & Zach Tandem will be together (so I say nothing) however, I have become tired of guessing and being optimistic each offseason with President Isiah Thomas at the Helm of eveything and the end conclusion is another 33 WIN Season.

What I do know (as Pure-Fact) is how well "Curry & Lee" have done together in the past as STARTERS, and I would take my chance with that as the STARTERS of this season, and work Zach into the starting lineup as the season goes along.
We as Knick-Fans should know what to expect from the Curry & Lee Starting lineup by now. And the Marbury & Crawford starting backcourt. What we are hoping for is a Healthy SF-Q.Richardson on the court with the above four players to give some leadership playingtime at the start of each game vs the different NBA teams Starters night after night.

We are clueless of the Curry & Zach starting lineup, plus this offseason we been speaking on theory, on guessing offense, and being optimistic about how well the Curry & Zach offensive lineup will do. It's all good but .....
there is no PURE-FACTS about the Curry & Zach Frontcourt lineup.

Coach Larry Brown rarely put Curry & Frye on the court together in midseason, Frye played the majority of his playingtime alongside C-Jackie Butler, or PF-Taylor, or PF-Lee, untill he got injured (that is why he Bulked-up last offseason). Coach Zeke was guessing last offseason when he put Curry & Frye as STARTERS in the regular season (The two looked lost together on who will get the defensive rebound the entire season). All season long I kept wondering why did'nt Curry & Frye play in any pickup games or scrimmage games together in the offseason to get their stuff together?
 

dr.carpy

Benchwarmer
I read a ton of posts. I can honestly say that I get really tired of hearing how bad Eddy Curry was as a defender. Is there somethng to be desired? Sure. Eddy will bring more intesity cause he knows he has to. Unless you know Isiah injured David Lee and Jamal Crawford and our best overall player in Q Richardson. He used the horses he had. The KNicks would have been better with the three aforementioned players on the floor as opposed to sitting and watching. So for anyone to say the injuries weren't the biggest problem last year, you probably didn't watch a game.

pyotrveliky: You came out guns blazin' dog. I like what you have to say (except the cursing, I know you're frustrated.) Some posters here are really jocking Boston hard. It's embarassing. We've got a better overall team. I wish some folks would go join the Boston forum too. They seem to have more positives things to say about them than us.


In closing, Isiah only oversight is thinking his guards would help play interior defense the way he and Joe Dumars did. The used stay on their mans outside and force guys in towards the bigs. The Knicks guards haven't always held up their end of this. So recognize, Interior defense isn't about ZBo and Eddy. It's the responsibility of the 15 Men that will don the Orange and Blue this year.
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Excellent point, interior D is not all about Curry and Z-Bo...it's about PG, SG, and the SF also. If the perimeter plays consistent D then Curry and Z-Bo will change shots. Curry doesn't block many shots but he changes 3-5 a game. And Z-Bo will have to step up also...otherwise he will feel that NY pressure. Can't wait til the season starts...can't come soon enough.
 

pyotrveliky

Rotation player
i agree that a curry frye lineup would help them compliment each other well. frye is fast and athletic enough to help curry weak side on d and to get the defensive rebounds. i also wouldnt mind him as backup center and think that wasnt a bad role for him. most of the bruisers in the league other than like shaq play pf anyway.
im sorry for cursing but as dr. carpy said i just get tired of the negativity. obviously the past decade has been frustrating but does being pessimistic and negative help make it any better? my glasses arent totally rose-shaded and I am quick to acknowledge the many mistakes management has made, but give them some faith. the thing with lee and z-bo playing time - if isiah was committed to playing lee as a starter he never would have gone after randolph unless he really just wanted to get rid of francis and frye (which is a possibility). however, do you think that for all the money were gonna be paying randolph were not gonna start him and let him become a distratction? lee knows hes not a superstar yet and is humble enough to be able to take the backseat role again and make the most of his playing time.
 

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
You guys really need to post something more interesting than the coach sucks. We get it already, we see it on every post. Can any one deny that this is a better team under Thomas? Think about the question before you answer. Marbury has matured and become an all around better player on both ends. Every interview I've seen and report that I've read all indicate that the players want to play in NY and want to play for Thomas. Even Curry said he would request a trade if Thomas were fired. That aside the topic is can Curry and Randolph mesh. This is totally different then Marbury/Francis being that Zach and Eddie play different positions. It's what's known as a good problem.
 

metrocard

Legend
i didnt say that zach and curry are gonna mesh just that we dont know that they wont, im just tired of people bashing especially when we havent even played a game with our new team yet. obviously isiah has made some dumb moves and im not defending them but if youre a knick fan at least have some optimism that something will work before you jump to bashing it. i am upset that isiah isnt improving the team but realistically how many moves can he make. i dont give him a free ride but considering the talented players tha we do have and the fact that we dont have many trading pieces we are willing to part with, theres not much more he can do short of cut players (which im not opposed to). hopefully an artest move will come soon after the 2 month wait on the new guys. i never called him stupid, just his point about the IL. i did call him negative and i stand by that.

well said.


I read a ton of posts. I can honestly say that I get really tired of hearing how bad Eddy Curry was as a defender. Is there somethng to be desired? Sure. Eddy will bring more intesity cause he knows he has to. Unless you know Isiah injured David Lee and Jamal Crawford and our best overall player in Q Richardson. He used the horses he had. The KNicks would have been better with the three aforementioned players on the floor as opposed to sitting and watching. So for anyone to say the injuries weren't the biggest problem last year, you probably didn't watch a game.

pyotrveliky: You came out guns blazin' dog. I like what you have to say (except the cursing, I know you're frustrated.) Some posters here are really jocking Boston hard. It's embarassing. We've got a better overall team. I wish some folks would go join the Boston forum too. They seem to have more positives things to say about them than us.


In closing, Isiah only oversight is thinking his guards would help play interior defense the way he and Joe Dumars did. The used stay on their mans outside and force guys in towards the bigs. The Knicks guards haven't always held up their end of this. So recognize, Interior defense isn't about ZBo and Eddy. It's the responsibility of the 15 Men that will don the Orange and Blue this year.


You get tired, thats cool but we don't need to hear your crying, take it to the moderator.

Injuries are part of the NBA, get over it. The biggest problem in the team was turnovers and defense. You obviously don't watch the Knicks up there in Canada.

Kevin Garnett is better than our whole roster combined, I see Knicks making the playoffs, but no way the Knicks are a better team than the Celtics. Theres a difference to being positive and being an ignorant homer and being an out right hater(Raptor fans)

Us? You seem more like Isiah's lawyer than anything.

Celtics have more positives now, they added the best shooter and one of the scorers in the NBA in Ray Allen and a MVP player in Kevin Garnett. Randolph is a great all star talent, but isn't near the level of these players. They have 3 all stars who can dominate, we have none. Benches are overrated, all role players need to do is compliment the super stars. The Spurs or Suns don't have a serious bench but still manage to play at an elite level. Celtics are making the right moves now, and it PISSES real Knick fans off that other teams get better each season why we hope to make the 8th seed each other. If you're not annoyed by that, then you need to question your passion for the Knicks. I do not want to favor the CELTICS, but when you lay the facts every NBA fan see, theres no denying they're highly improved. I feel bad when I see NBA forums not put the Knicks in their top 8 in the playoffs. I realize they are alot of Knick haters, but it makes you question everything. Like I said, I see Knicks in the playoffs, not way ahead of the Celtics, Nets or Raptors. Damn, its gonna be hard to see 4 teams in the playoffs from the Atlantic right? Everyone said it was the worst division. Now its pretty solid.

What did you write in your last paragraph? Defense today and defense in the 90's are totally different now. You saying that about Isiah is basically you coming out here and saying Isiah is an idiot coach. Why would he do that, depend on Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford and Richardson to carry the defense on the perimeter? Marbury and Q-Rich are good defenders, no question, but theres going to be times that guards and big men will be in the paint. Randolph and Curry both are liabilities on defense and will defend in the INTERIOR, so its mostly about them. Its a PROBLEM, theres no denying that. I just hope both Curry and Randolph work on their defensive game and stop worrying so much about the touches they get on offense. Its best for the KNICKS. Isiah seems to focus on whats best for the individual player instead of the team. Example, all the isolation plays Isiah sets up for Crawford and Curry. They're just playing one on one mostly, and it hurts our offense that potentially can be a great offense. We should be averaging 102 points per game, but we only avg 97. Not enough ball movement.
 

Roco

Rookie
[/quote]
<O:p></O:p>
How do you KNOW Randolph and Curry will mesh? For you to question anyone that as if you know the answer is funny, because thats a question that can go both ways. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
What we know is that Randolph is a horrid defender. Thats not a positive since we don't have any interior defense. Thats a fact that is undisputable. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
We also know Randolph is a 20 ppg scorer who's an isolation player. That means more one on one ball domination than team ball rotation. This is what seperates us from great teams like Detroit, San Antonio and Phoneix. They move the ball around effectively. Having a 20 ppg scorer at each position doesn't really help when no one is passing. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Lets think of exercising. What Isiah is doing is isolation exercises. Isiah did 5 sets of 12 dumbbell curls on a daily basis. He's only working out one part of the body. What about the legs, back or core, or just a full body work out? We could say the same about our interior defense, ball movement, and turnovers. Isiah isn't working out or improving the Knicks at these things he has ignored his time as a GM; which is the main reason why we have so many holes in our team. He's just working out the same thing over and over. His plan has failed him, but yet he continues to choose the same path of isolation one on one players; expecting success. 20-30 wins isn't success. I don't see Randolph as a guy known for winning, defense and being the vocal point of a great offense; Blazers had one of the worst offenses in the NBA.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Knicks should of been a 40 win team the last season if Isiah didn't have so many blunders as a GM. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Whats good with all the bashing and calling people stupid? It isn't really helping your argument at all; actually its dumbing down your defense. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Why aren't you guys upset at Isiah for ignoring out weaknesses and keeping us from being a good team? You get upset at people who disapprove of Isiah ignoring the weaknesses each season because you believe they're haters; which shows more personal bias than logic.
<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Nobody knows if Curry and Randolph will mesh right now, and since this is New York, it's probable that a good portion of Knicks fans will only give them the first 10 games of the season to do it. I'll be patient, but I'm standing by the idea that if we're healthy, it's playoffs or bust. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I'm not even calling Randolph a good defender, but let's try to approach this differently. Horrid defender? I'd like to think that he's a prideful defender, which means he tries at least. Call him whatever you want, but I find it difficult to question his work ethic. Zach has put so much effort into his improvement over the past few years that I can't imagine him not trying to give an effort on defense. We're talking about a 19th pick who entered the league at 270, managed to bring his weight down, worked hard enough to be recognized as the Most Improved Player in 03-04 and became a 20/10 guy this past season. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Here's an interesting read:<O:p></O:p>
http://aol.nba.com/blazers/news/Zach_Randolph__FOCUSED-197680-1218.html<O:p></O:p>
This was written just before last season, and there are some points that stuck out (this is before a breakout season mind you): <O:p></O:p>

"I didn't know Zach when we started training together, but I can say now, without hesitation, that Randolph is the hardest working basketball player I have ever coached. He has practiced very hard to put himself into this position. And not just the basketball stuff," Bayno noted, "Zach has worked hard on his conditioning, running suicides (non-stop sprints the length of a basketball court and back), lifting weights and working on muscle building and leg strengthing exercises with Bob Medina (Trail Blazer conditioning coach)."
<O:p></O:p>
"Under Loyer's individual tutelage, Randolph also has become a better team defender -- a factor resulting from hours of study of game films. "This is one of the biggest things he's improved on," Loyer said.

Another element of Randolph's game that needs improvement is his passing out of the post when the double teams come. "That's the next stage of his development," McMillan said earlier this month.

Loyer noted the deficiency, too. "I think he can develop into a good passer, but first he must learn to have first and second thoughts when he gets the ball in the post."
<O:p></O:p>
<O:p>"Zach is starting to understand his role," Lucas says, "not only in playing the position, but also in learning how to be a team leader. This team is designed around his leadership and so far he's accepting the challenge. "He's also learned that conditioning is a big part of his success, so he came to us this fall in the best condition of his life,? Lucas added." </O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I don't think that we're going to have a huge problem with sharing the ball next season, but I understand you concern with ball rotation. I think that Marbury is all for what's good for the team now, and I don't think that we'll have a problem with him. Even Steph said that he expects to get around 10 points per game. Brandon Roy was able to score nearly 17 points last season with Randolph at the helm of their offense, and Jarret Jack was able to average 12 ppg. Bring Q into the equation, and I think most of us can agree that he's not going to care much about whether his offensive stats will decrease. When it comes to Eddy, there's not nearly as much pressure for him to score, and the opposing defense can't always worry about just him anymore. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Also, would you consider our team a poor interior defensive team last season?<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I think it's reasonable to say that the Knicks could have won 40 games last season. You have to factor in the timely injuries to David Lee, Quentin Richardson, and Stephon Marbury late, if not, throughout the year though. I'm not calling it an excuse, but you can't ignore that it affected us somewhat. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I don't see Randolph as a guy known for winning, defense and being the vocal point of a great offense; Blazers had one of the worst offenses in the NBA.

Winning? We haven't seen him as a starter on a playoff team, and say what you will, but that didn't stop Denver, Dallas, Seattle, and San Antonio (of all teams) from making offers for Randolph (according to Marc Berman, they were better offers, only the Blazers did not want to keep him in the Western Conference). The Bulls and Nets were also interested.

Now in terms of offense, the Blazers were a very young team last season. Aside from Randolph and Roy, the Blazers had Jarrett Jack, Ime Udoka, and LaMarcus Aldridge. Minutes were so spread out, and with a team in rebuilding mode, you're not going to see an ideal fluid offense. Albeit, Roy and Jack were able to score double figures, but aside from that, not everyone else was accustomed to scoring.

I've been a fan for nearly 10 years, and I have seen our Knicks go from prominence to the abyss during the Scott Layden era. I want to see the team do well also, but I understand that it's a process.

Why would he do that, depend on Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford and Richardson to carry the defense on the perimeter? Marbury and Q-Rich are good defenders, no question, but theres going to be times that guards and big men will be in the paint.

I don't think the question regarding the supect defense of Curry and Randolph pertain to our defense in the paint, it's more of a concern that of perimeter players breaking down the defense and getting into the paint. Curry and Randolph aren't known much for shotblocking, but I do think they're capable of contesting shots.
<O:p></O:p>
<O:p>
They're just playing one on one mostly, and it hurts our offense that potentially can be a great offense. We should be averaging 102 points per game, but we only avg 97. Not enough ball movement.
</O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
<O:p>We had 7 (nearly 8 if you count Frye's 9.5 ppg) players average double figures last season. I'll acknowledge that there's somewhat of a catch because not all of these guys played a full season, but still. Although we do have a lot of capable scorers, I think the roles are starting to become more defined. I don't think Marbury, Crawford, or Richardson will complain about not scoring enough if we're winning. With Randolph, that takes a huge scoring load off of Curry and vice-versa. Also, we have the option of having at least one post presence on the floor for the full 48 minutes. </O:p>
 

dr.carpy

Benchwarmer
well said.





You get tired, thats cool but we don't need to hear your crying, take it to the moderator.

Injuries are part of the NBA, get over it. The biggest problem in the team was turnovers and defense. You obviously don't watch the Knicks up there in Canada.

Kevin Garnett is better than our whole roster combined, I see Knicks making the playoffs, but no way the Knicks are a better team than the Celtics. Theres a difference to being positive and being an ignorant homer and being an out right hater(Raptor fans)

Us? You seem more like Isiah's lawyer than anything.

Celtics have more positives now, they added the best shooter and one of the scorers in the NBA in Ray Allen and a MVP player in Kevin Garnett. Randolph is a great all star talent, but isn't near the level of these players. They have 3 all stars who can dominate, we have none. Benches are overrated, all role players need to do is compliment the super stars. The Spurs or Suns don't have a serious bench but still manage to play at an elite level. Celtics are making the right moves now, and it PISSES real Knick fans off that other teams get better each season why we hope to make the 8th seed each other. If you're not annoyed by that, then you need to question your passion for the Knicks. I do not want to favor the CELTICS, but when you lay the facts every NBA fan see, theres no denying they're highly improved. I feel bad when I see NBA forums not put the Knicks in their top 8 in the playoffs. I realize they are alot of Knick haters, but it makes you question everything. Like I said, I see Knicks in the playoffs, not way ahead of the Celtics, Nets or Raptors. Damn, its gonna be hard to see 4 teams in the playoffs from the Atlantic right? Everyone said it was the worst division. Now its pretty solid.

What did you write in your last paragraph? Defense today and defense in the 90's are totally different now. You saying that about Isiah is basically you coming out here and saying Isiah is an idiot coach. Why would he do that, depend on Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford and Richardson to carry the defense on the perimeter? Marbury and Q-Rich are good defenders, no question, but theres going to be times that guards and big men will be in the paint. Randolph and Curry both are liabilities on defense and will defend in the INTERIOR, so its mostly about them. Its a PROBLEM, theres no denying that. I just hope both Curry and Randolph work on their defensive game and stop worrying so much about the touches they get on offense. Its best for the KNICKS. Isiah seems to focus on whats best for the individual player instead of the team. Example, all the isolation plays Isiah sets up for Crawford and Curry. They're just playing one on one mostly, and it hurts our offense that potentially can be a great offense. We should be averaging 102 points per game, but we only avg 97. Not enough ball movement.



If KG is better than our roster, it would suit you better to join Celtics Nation. Yeah I live in Canada. I have a a satellite with MSG Idiot. I probably watched more Knicks games than you. Injuries are a part of things, don't be stupid. When the Knicks went to the finals in 99, we clearly lost due the fact that our best players weren't playing. So stop acting like a fool. Injuries are dibiltating. I listen to guys, they all say the same thing. Defense is the same as it's always been. I guess Clyde doesn't know what he's talking about then either, he played in a time before Isiah. You evidence with every post you know nothing about basketball or life. You posting name should be Alicia Silvertsone, cause you're CLUELESS. Isiah was a team player when he played. He knew when to differ touches to Aguirre, Vinny Johnson (I loved the microwave!), Laimbeer. So why wounldn't he implement that in his coaching style? Again more proof of your complete lack of knowledge. You usually set up plays that augment your players strengths. Isolation (your new key word, looks like someone went to a basketball workshop) works for those two players. Who cares what the Blazers PPG as a teams was? (I'm Knicks fan) Again you make a point for Randolph. The Blazers were bad cause he didn't play. Randolph missed 15 games. The Blazers point production went down as a result. Aruguing a point against you is like fighting a child, and I'm over 6 Ft. and 255Lbs.(What a waste!). When you say benches are overrated, tell that to Robert Horry and Steve Kerr. They've made fortunes coming off the Bench and making plays. More evidence that you know nothing. Get over Curry and Randolph bashing long enough to realize that this is a team sport. 15 guys need to show up everynight. If you don't believe that, then trluy there is no hope for you. How good will the Raps be? Wait to see how long Chris Bosh is hurt for.
 

Roco

Rookie
The hoopla surrounding the Celtics is complicated. They've basically bought a star-studded team. (Hey, just like us! Only they've done it with "higher" star power) This is when things can get ugly. According to my perception of some Knicks fans, here's how a simulation of how such a fan might react to the moves of the Celtics:

--------------------
(Start of summer)

Damn, we're going nowhere with Paul Pierce. He's only gotten us a max of 45 wins during his whole tenure as a Celtic, and he's only gotten us a total of 57 wins in the past two seasons.

(Ray Allen gets traded to the Celtics)

What?! Noooooooo!!!! We gave up a pick too? There goes our future. I just know that whoever that pick will be is better than having Allen. We could have a nice core, but now we're paying 17 million to a guy with a lot of mileage on him. Crap, Allen's a good shooter and all, but he's freakin 32 years old. And he doesn't play a lick of defense. I don't think he's a winner either. I think he got lucky back when they won 52, because the next season they only won 35 games. He's not a leader, and we're gonna put him next to Pierce? Maybe I should just give up basketball in Beantown.

(KG goes to the Celtics)

There we go. We just traded our young talent for another veteran. He's good, but he's already 31. How much are we paying him? And for how much longer? His leadership has declined too. I mean, I know he won 57 games a couple years ago, but that was then. His team's wins have decreased, and they didn't even make the playoffs last season. He's a good shotblocker and defender and all, but they won just as many games as the Knicks last year! And the Knicks suck!

(Near the end of summer)

Damn. I thought we were going to get better. We just added good players from last year's losing teams. I don't know why people think we're going to be stellar next season. We'll be better probably, but I think people are way overdoing it.
-------------------------------------------------

Now back to reality. Obviously, nearly everyone isn't ruling out the possibility of title contention, but this just goes to reveal the duplicity of some self-proclaimed "universally undisputable basketball knowledge" that a few fans carry.

The whole sports world media doesn't care about possible flaws with the Celtics, they like to look more toward how these guys can possibly help each other. "How does getting Allen and KG take the scoring load off Pierce?" is the question asked as opposed to "They might need three basketballs on the floor at once, how will they fit?". It isn't "The Celtics don't have a mature- enough point guard" or "Kendrick Perkins isn't known for defense". It's "Allen, Pierce, and KG" will do absolutely everything that the team needs to win.

Is it out of the question to have some faith in the Knicks?

Let's hope.

"Zach Randolph will lessen the scoring load and pressure off of Eddy Curry."

"Eddy Curry was the leading scorer on a team that made the playoffs."

"Crawford is a good scorer, but I know he can play better. We've seen him try hard on defense under Larry Brown, so he's more than capable."

"Mardy Collins fits nicely as a backup point guard. His size will make post-entry passes hard to defend"

"The players are loyal to Isiah Thomas and will work hard for him"

"David Lee"

Don't misunderstand me. I don't think this team is perfect. I think we can play a lot better. I think we still have some moves to make and players to pursue. But I feel that we're going in the right direction. I'll still stand by it. If we're healthy, then it's playoffs or bust next season.
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
If KG is better than our roster, it would suit you better to join Celtics Nation. Yeah I live in Canada. I have a a satellite with MSG Idiot. I probably watched more Knicks games than you. Injuries are a part of things, don't be stupid. When the Knicks went to the finals in 99, we clearly lost due the fact that our best players weren't playing. So stop acting like a fool. Injuries are dibiltating. I listen to guys, they all say the same thing. Defense is the same as it's always been. I guess Clyde doesn't know what he's talking about then either, he played in a time before Isiah. You evidence with every post you know nothing about basketball or life. You posting name should be Alicia Silvertsone, cause you're CLUELESS. Isiah was a team player when he played. He knew when to differ touches to Aguirre, Vinny Johnson (I loved the microwave!), Laimbeer. So why wounldn't he implement that in his coaching style? Again more proof of your complete lack of knowledge. You usually set up plays that augment your players strengths. Isolation (your new key word, looks like someone went to a basketball workshop) works for those two players. Who cares what the Blazers PPG as a teams was? (I'm Knicks fan) Again you make a point for Randolph. The Blazers were bad cause he didn't play. Randolph missed 15 games. The Blazers point production went down as a result. Aruguing a point against you is like fighting a child, and I'm over 6 Ft. and 255Lbs.(What a waste!). When you say benches are overrated, tell that to Robert Horry and Steve Kerr. They've made fortunes coming off the Bench and making plays. More evidence that you know nothing. Get over Curry and Randolph bashing long enough to realize that this is a team sport. 15 guys need to show up everynight. If you don't believe that, then trluy there is no hope for you. How good will the Raps be? Wait to see how long Chris Bosh is hurt for.

LOL...don't waste your time fighting with the kid...he doesn't think rational like most people do and he always thinks players like Arroyo and Garcia are good for the team LOL He lost credibility a long time ago...Good post by the way roco...i like peops who speak the truth...keep being rational and this forum will go smooth like the Nile
 

metrocard

Legend
If KG is better than our roster, it would suit you better to join Celtics Nation. Yeah I live in Canada. I have a a satellite with MSG Idiot. I probably watched more Knicks games than you. Injuries are a part of things, don't be stupid.

So stop acting like a fool.

You evidence with every post you know nothing about basketball or life.

You posting name should be Alicia Silvertsone, cause you're CLUELESS.

Aruguing a point against you is like fighting a child, and I'm over 6 Ft. and 255Lbs.(What a waste!).



You should watch that, reading your post really lowers my IQ.


Nah, I'm a Knick fan. You're wrong once again failing to acknowledge KG is one of the all time greats at his position and is still one of the best players in the league; to think that would not impact a team just means proved your limited in basketball discussion. You prove no point telling to join the Celtics nation and disrespected me question my position as a Knick fan. Once again another insult and unprofessional comment from you, very immature....thanks.

"Probably", "idiot", "fool" words of wisdom. Sadly they don't help your agrument or whatever your trying to send here.

I'm not sure what dibiltating means, so you messege once is not understable.

Dude, the Spurs were an unmatched team in 99'. We had a historic run in 99' that will never be forgotten. Injuries are part of the NBA, just accept it and stop being a cry baby.

Defense isn't as physical as it use to be, and there are more fouls called now; especially with flopping and charging. If you can't see that you must be blind.

Blazers team PPG have a lot with Randolph's ability to lead, which isn't alot. Guys like Randolph and Curry can lead your team scoring, but what sucess will it bring? Not much, just lottery visits and 20/30 win seasons. This has happened so I can say that because its a proven fact.

You're wrong once again, cool! This is fun. Randolph didn't infact miss 15 games. If you're going to use stats, make sure they're accurate. Randolph played 68 games. Whats 82-68 ? 14!, Correct. Not only I'm educating you on basketball but simple math too...I'm too cool, right?

Regardless, at the end of the season Blazers were 6-7 without Randolph, so it didn't make much of a difference. They were losing alot of games with Randolph and just are a sub .500 team without him. That point is invalid and doesn't have enough logic or information for me to agree with.

6" and 255? You're pretty fat there. I'm guessing too much Canadian bacon and ice cream. Or the fact you just sit there mocking who ever disagrees with you saying you know everything about life and basketball; when you youself are some 255 lb guy who's really the least athletic and most ignorant person in the forum. Don't even think about fighting this kid, brother, I've been doing boxing in the South Bronx for the summer for PAL while you've been getting fatter. The bigger they come, the harder they fall.

After I said that I could predict your post "COME TO CANADA AND SEE IM THE REAL DEAL, I'M A PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER AND A BLACK BELT IN MUY THAI. I WOULD CRUSH YOU BODY IN HALF, SO DON'T DARE MESS WITH ME. LITTLE BOY, GIVE ME YOUR ADDRESS OR ILL BOMB YOUR PM BOX AGAIN." or something like that.

All you need is a solid 8 man rotation and you're good to go. Theres different chases and scenarios for this, so its debatable.

I rather have 8 guys who can lead my favorite team to victory, than 15 talented guys clogged up together in a roster with no history of winning. Thats just me, I'm a Knick and I happened want my to be successful. It seems like your a closet Raptors fan with all the success you forbid the Knicks to have.




Roco, we meet again brother.

Its not so complicated.

Celtics got 3 all stars. We have zero.

Kendrick Perkins is known for defense, nothing else.

Rando isn' matured, but still good enough to start and the perfect PG for the Celtics. He can get to the paint any time he wants and loves passing the ball , and is excellent defender/rebounder. Perfect situation for the kid.

Roco, I also believe we will make the playoffs. If we get Artest I also believe we could be much better than Boston and accually win the Atlantic and be considered a threat in the playoffs. I hope the Artest deal goes through, it will take a lot of pressure off of Isiah and really progress our defense to a different level.

Good post.
 
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dr.carpy

Benchwarmer
Ah look everyone! Cher (Metro) is mad! I'm a Knick fan, unless KG plays here which he doesn't, why would I care what he does? You make no sense. You're a punching bag more than you are a boxer. Again little girl, don't bang with the beast, your not there yet. I could lose an arm, my eyesight, and you still be on the endangered species list if you tried to test. TRUST! In the future when you don't understand what I wrote, google it or ask one of your teachers for help. This one's on me. I nothing if not generous. The term in question means to make weak or feeble. The Knicks were awful with a unhealty team. It was a factor. Camby and LJ were frustrated by this too, so I guess we're all babies then. You can run again and tell Rady I was mean to you. I go to New York on Business, so when I'm the I'm sure I put a fiver in your cup.Your arguments are really lame. My boy hoped on the Celtics wagon cause of KG, so I'll tell him to watch for you annoying know it all posts. Almost a 1000 posts here, and you ain't said a word yet.
 

metrocard

Legend
Roco, I read your first post. Too many smiles, but I'll reply.

You'll be patient, but remember 3-4 years ago when we debated? You were patient then and look now. We're barely a playoff team. Come, you thought Marbury is better than Nash and believe Marbury saved the Knicks franchise in 2004. You had a history of assuming too quickly/inaccurately and not being patient.

"Maybe Stephon is treated like a "god" because he saved this franchise."
http://nykfanpage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=53395&highlight=francis+nash#53395

No, we're not approaching anything here differently Roco, we're being realistic as possible. No WHAT IFS, not maybes, nothing of that. Lets just exchange facts and information so we can learn from each other and our opposing views.

You're right, Zach Randolph is a hard worker, but his specialty is not defense. Can he improve? Yes. Do we know? No. So right now its a question mark and still very questionable whether he can help our interior defense.

Good articles, hopefully Randolph can be a more around player, that would make him and Curry are serious combination in the front court.




The turnovers and inconsistent defense kept us from the playoffs, more than the injuries or anything else. David Lee was the biggest lost, then Richardson. It affected us, but not so much as our two biggest weaknesses I hope we can improve.

We haven't seen him on a playoff team, why is that Roco?

Putting all your sources to one (Berman) isn't too smart, especially when many rumors that these guys put up. The fact is most of those teams already have an established winning squad, they could easily bring Randolph to play a smaller role instead of a Franchise player. Dallas always done this with Walker, Terry, Jamison, Jerry Stackhouse, Keith Van Horn. Same with the Spurs with Finley, Barry, Van Exel and Glen Robinson.

Randolph trade has upgraded our roster yes, but not our weaknesses.


Now in terms of offense, the Blazers were a very young team last season. Aside from Randolph and Roy, the Blazers had Jarrett Jack, Ime Udoka, and LaMarcus Aldridge. Minutes were so spread out, and with a team in rebuilding mode, you're not going to see an ideal fluid offense. Albeit, Roy and Jack were able to score double figures, but aside from that, not everyone else was accustomed to scoring.

Ok, whats your agrument in 2004-05for Randolph leading a 92.9 ppg offense on a Blazers roster of Damon Stoudimire, Ruben Patterson, Darius Miles, Nick Van Exel, Derek Anderson and Shareef Abdur-Rahim. He also shot 44%.

in 2005-06, the Blazers averaged 88 ppg. My point is Randolph isn't known to lead a dominant offense, which is why many people don't talk about him in the MVP discussion. Normally when you hear 23 and 10, you think of MVP. Randolph is only about 25 or so, so he's not even at his prime yet. But from what we know, we added another isolation player which can either really hurt our offense or help our offense. Depends how Isiah handles it.

Its been long process Roco, we've waited 3 years to be mediocre. Other teams in the NBA have rebuilt on the fly in 2-3 years. Even the Bobcats look like contenders already. This whole rebuilding process is overrated, it doesn't really take that long, especially in the NBA. This isn't the MLB, we've seen teams totally transfer from lottery to playoff contenders. Isiah at first didn't have a sense of direction, making many questionable trades for washed up ex all stars, giving away cap space and draft picks freely. Now I feel like Isiah has just "started" his plan, and before he was just playing around like a dummy in NBA Live Association mode making trades just for fun for the 3 year period as the Knicks GM. To me, I can't respect that as a Knick fan and all real Knick fans shouldn't. Thanks for wasting 3 years Isiah.


You think? Well you definitely don't know. I've watched over 60 games of the Knicks in 06-07, Curry does not contest shots. From the games I saw Randolph play on NBATV (I'm a Francisco Garcia/Raja Bell) fan, so I catch alot of Blazers/Kings match ups) He doesn't either. They better contest shots in 06-07 if we want to have a respectable defense.
 

metrocard

Legend
Ah look everyone! Cher (Metro) is mad! I'm a Knick fan, unless KG plays here which he doesn't, why would I care what he does? You make no sense. You're a punching bag more than you are a boxer. Again little girl, don't bang with the beast, your not there yet. I could lose an arm, my eyesight, and you still be on the endangered species list if you tried to test. TRUST! In the future when you don't understand what I wrote, google it or ask one of your teachers for help. This one's on me. I nothing if not generous. The term in question means to make weak or feeble. The Knicks were awful with a unhealty team. It was a factor. Camby and LJ were frustrated by this too, so I guess we're all babies then. You can run again and tell Rady I was mean to you. I go to New York on Business, so when I'm the I'm sure I put a fiver in your cup.Your arguments are really lame. My boy hoped on the Celtics wagon cause of KG, so I'll tell him to watch for you annoying know it all posts. Almost a 1000 posts here, and you ain't said a word yet.

You lost your temper once again. You got shut down by my post(once again, which gets boring...which is why I ignore mostly everything you say nowadays). I also predicted you would post more immaturely and much more ignorant than before. You always lower my IQ and maturity when you come in threads because you have nothing important or valuable to say. Its laughable to think of some 255 lb Canadian man trying to throw a punch. Internet tough guy, you wouldn't be talking so much smack in the Boxing gym in the South Bronx. I know a 14 year old Puerto Rican girl fighter who could knock your fat ass clean on the floor. You're a joke as a poster, a human being and honestly I can't associate you with the Knicks, go root for the home team, Raptors boy.
 

dr.carpy

Benchwarmer
You lost your temper once again. You got shut down by my post(once again, which gets boring...which is why I ignore mostly everything you say nowadays). I also predicted you would post more immaturely and much more ignorant than before. You always lower my IQ and maturity when you come in threads because you have nothing important or valuable to say. Its laughable to think of some 255 lb Canadian man trying to throw a punch. Internet tough guy, you wouldn't be talking so much smack in the Boxing gym in the South Bronx. I know a 14 year old Puerto Rican girl fighter who could knock your fat ass clean on the floor. You're a joke as a poster, a human being and honestly I can't associate you with the Knicks, go root for the home team, Raptors boy.

Yawn....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Still ain't said nothin'. Go to the people here. They take me far more serious than you. I offer more than "I hate Isiah, Curry and Zach". That always fun to read for the thousandth time. Just so you know, the last part was sarcasism.
 
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Roco

Rookie
Yep PR, it's good to bring back the clashes my friend
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haha <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
You'll be patient, but remember 3-4 years ago when we debated? You were patient then and look now. We're barely a playoff team. Come, you thought Marbury is better than Nash and believe Marbury saved the Knicks franchise in 2004. You had a history of assuming too quickly/inaccurately and not being patient.
<O:p></O:p>

<O:p></O:p>
3-4 years ago, we had Nazr Mohammed at starting center and Mike Sweetney was supposed to be our future 4. Times change, and with change, you have to recognize the process. If we had the exact same team that we did 3-4 years ago and then only won 33 games last season, then I would be livid.
<O:p></O:p>
One on one, even Nash admitted that Marbury would beat him. Wouldn't you agree that Nash found the best situation for himself? No discredit to his MVP status, but you have to acknowledge that he wasn't getting nearly as much recognition back then with the Mavs as he is now.
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I assume too quickly? I'm willing to see if this Randolph/ Curry thing works, and you're already telling us that it won't. Oh, and I didn't forget your glorification of Peter John Ramos or how you said the Knicks needed to sign Jaber Rouzbahani. <O:p></O:p>
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http://nykfanpage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=100628&highlight=peter+john+ramos+double+double#100628<O:p></O:p>
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http://nykfanpage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=56894&highlight=jaber+rouzbahani#56894<O:p></O:p>
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We haven't seen him on a playoff team, why is that Roco?
<O:p></O:p>

<O:p></O:p>
Care to explain to me why Ray Allen and Garnett made the playoffs before but not last season? <O:p></O:p>

Good articles, hopefully Randolph can be a more around player, that would make him and Curry are serious combination in the front court.

There we go.

We haven't seen him on a playoff team, why is that Roco?
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<O:p></O:p>
<O:p>You're saying that the Celtics are making all the right moves, but why wasn't Garnett or Ray Allen on a playoff team last season? </O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
<O:p>
Putting all your sources to one (Berman) isn't too smart, especially when many rumors that these guys put up. The fact is most of those teams already have an established winning squad, they could easily bring Randolph to play a smaller role instead of a Franchise player. Dallas always done this with Walker, Terry, Jamison, Jerry Stackhouse, Keith Van Horn. Same with the Spurs with Finley, Barry, Van Exel and Glen Robinson.</O:p>
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<O:p>Randolph trade has upgraded our roster yes, but not our weaknesses.
<O:p></O:p> </O:p>
<O:p> </O:p>
We're not depending on Randolph to be our franchise player, and that's where I think the misunderstanding is. We're expecting him to play well, but our whole season doesn't completely depend on whether he delivers or not. I'm not going to lie to you and say that Randolph was absolutely the player we should have acquired, because I think there are other players who would fit next to Curry. But is having Randolph worse than having uncertainty at the 2-guard and a Channing Frye with no confidence?

Ok, whats your agrument in 2004-05for Randolph leading a 92.9 ppg offense on a Blazers roster of Damon Stoudimire, Ruben Patterson, Darius Miles, Nick Van Exel, Derek Anderson and Shareef Abdur-Rahim. He also shot 44%.

I'd say that, for Randolph, getting nearly 19 and 10 during a season of a big roster shakeup is pretty promising. He was only 23 back then and he was getting it done. Do you think he's going to lead the offense by himself here in New York? That's another misunderstanding.

in 2005-06, the Blazers averaged 88 ppg. My point is Randolph isn't known to lead a dominant offense, which is why many people don't talk about him in the MVP discussion. Normally when you hear 23 and 10, you think of MVP. Randolph is only about 25 or so, so he's not even at his prime yet. But from what we know, we added another isolation player which can either really hurt our offense or help our offense. Depends how Isiah handles it.

No, I don't automatically think MVP when I hear 23 and 10. If Randolph isn't good enough to lead a dominant offense like you say, then how does having Curry, Crawford, Marbury, and Q-Rich not help? I agree, it does depend on how Isiah handles it.

Its been long process Roco, we've waited 3 years to be mediocre. Other teams in the NBA have rebuilt on the fly in 2-3 years. Even the Bobcats look like contenders already. This whole rebuilding process is overrated, it doesn't really take that long, especially in the NBA. This isn't the MLB, we've seen teams totally transfer from lottery to playoff contenders. Isiah at first didn't have a sense of direction, making many questionable trades for washed up ex all stars, giving away cap space and draft picks freely. Now I feel like Isiah has just "started" his plan, and before he was just playing around like a dummy in NBA Live Association mode making trades just for fun for the 3 year period as the Knicks GM. To me, I can't respect that as a Knick fan and all real Knick fans shouldn't. Thanks for wasting 3 years Isiah.

PR, we've had so many opportunities emerge for us over the course of 3 years. Eddy Curry becoming available after we signed JJ. Larry Brown choosing to sign with us and then leave us with nothing. Kurt Thomas gone for Q-Rich and a draft pick. Nazr Mohammed being traded for Malik Rose. I'd understand you fully if the team back then is the team we have now. But with change, you have to understand that we have to adapt. Who was the last coach that stayed for at least two full seasons? Did we have Eddy Curry, David Lee, Balkman, Mardy, Nate, and Jeffries three years ago? If we had Eddy three years ago and wound up where we are today, I'd understand. If we had Double Double Lee three years ago....you know where I'm going with this.

The Layden era? That was horrible "mediocrity". Now? Nobody can tell us that we don't have a legitimate chance to make the playoffs.

I see what you're saying in terms of roster shakeups. But again, there were opportunities that Isiah saw and took them when he felt the need. Should we have passed on Eddy Curry? Should we have looked past the trade that would bring us the league leader in 3 point shots made and a draft pick, especially with the question mark over Allan Houston?

You think? Well you definitely don't know. I've watched over 60 games of the Knicks in 06-07, Curry does not contest shots. From the games I saw Randolph play on NBATV (I'm a Francisco Garcia/Raja Bell) fan, so I catch alot of Blazers/Kings match ups) He doesn't either. They better contest shots in 06-07 if we want to have a respectable defense.

I agree with your last statement. But i'm just saying that Eddy understands what Isiah expects of him, and I'll think he'll give an effort to do what he's asked. We've never seen Randolph play in a Knicks uniform, but can we say that he isn't going to try either? We'll see what happens.
 
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