To All the Naysayers...

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
To all the people who doubted our game plan to get the Big 3 of Amare, Melo and another max contract such as Howard or CP3 I have good news! The Knicks are projected to have the MOST cap room in 2012 of any team and right around 20 mil! Combine that with what is most certainly going to be a lower max contract and we will have room to sign a max and possibly a solid role player.

This will undoubtedly lead to a mid season trade for either CP3 or D12 as the Magic and NO won't want to lose their stars for nothing.

Economic projections from sources say the salary cap will then grow to about $60-$61 million in 2012, when the Knicks will have the largest cap space in the league and have room to woo either Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Dwight Howard, who are slated to become free agents. The Knicks could be at least $20 million under the projected 2012 cap.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/dolan_thinking_cap_KYqiEAYeqYYk4xR4CJ3ApO#ixzz1cTKgkwVt
 
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TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
The new CBA (whenever it?s agreed upon) will also clear more cap space for the Knicks in 2012 because of the agreed-upon amnesty clause.
Knicks interim general manager Glen Grunwald is expected to use the clause on Nuggets throw-in Renaldo Balkman, whom he once drafted. Balkman is to make $1.7M in 2012 and is not in Knicks coach Mike D?Antoni?s plans.
When Balkman, a former first-round pick in the Isiah Thomas Era, is sliced, his $1.7M salary won?t count toward the cap under the new provision.
Without Balkman taking up 2012 cap room, the Knicks may have only three players under a guaranteed contract after this season: Anthony ($19.4M ), Stoudemire (19.9), rookie Iman Shumpert (projected $1.4M).
Toney Douglas has a team option for $2.06M and may not be re-signed if Shumpert excels. If the Knicks don?t exercise the Douglas option, they could be at $40.3M entering that summer -- possibly $20-$21M million in cap space.
Yahoo! has reported the NBA and players a


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/dolan_thinking_cap_KYqiEAYeqYYk4xR4CJ3ApO#ixzz1cTLHDJZY

Some more good news for the Knicks salary cap in 2012.
 

Red

TYPE-A
I think the debate (if the cap went up or remained) was more of...

-CP3 or...
-D12 or...
-D Williams or...
-Adding pieces around the two stars we already have

Not if it were possible, but what was the best option.

I'm going for D12, but won't complain about CP3, D Williams, or a solid big + viable role player options. Its win win for us.

Thanks Donnie.
 

NYallDay

Benchwarmer
Agreed! No matter who we get, out of the superstar free-agents, it catapults us from playoff/threat to legit shot at the trophy.
although my preference would be D12>CP3>DWill , oh + NEW COACH



I think the debate (if the cap went up or remained) was more of...

-CP3 or...
-D12 or...
-D Williams or...
-Adding pieces around the two stars we already have

Not if it were possible, but what was the best option.

I'm going for D12, but won't complain about CP3, D Williams, or a solid big + viable role player options. Its win win for us.

Thanks Donnie.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
I think the debate (if the cap went up or remained) was more of...

-CP3 or...
-D12 or...
-D Williams or...
-Adding pieces around the two stars we already have

Not if it were possible, but what was the best option.

I'm going for D12, but won't complain about CP3, D Williams, or a solid big + viable role player options. Its win win for us.

Thanks Donnie.

No, there are a few on the forum who've doubted the likelihood that we could sign another max. I won't mention names, but they're on here and they're not newbs.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
No, there are a few on the forum who've doubted the likelihood that we could sign another max. I won't mention names, but they're on here and they're not newbs.

I seem to remember a fan that sick play that Larry Johnson made against the Pacers, that was worth 4 points, emphatically swearing that acquiring Melo would cripple the Knicks.

Now....I'm not saying....but I'm just saying...
 

Red

TYPE-A
I seem to remember a fan that sick play that Larry Johnson made against the Pacers, that was worth 4 points, emphatically swearing that acquiring Melo would cripple the Knicks.

Now....I'm not saying....but I'm just saying...

Lol.

But let's get a season first.

Speaking of, I have a question...

Would winning a chip in a season with an * matter?

I'd say yes it would detract.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
Lol.

But let's get a season first.

Speaking of, I have a question...

Would winning a chip in a season with an * matter?

I'd say yes it would detract.

Yea, it definitely would in my opinion.

But I wouldn't even care...if we get Dwight, the league would go from the NBA, to the NKA.

Donnie Walsh was planning his strategy against his next opponent, while GMs were trying to figure out if moving that pawn would put them in checkmate.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
The numbers really haven't changed much. The increase from a $58 mil cap to a $60-61 mil cap and the amnesty clause are certainly nice, and unexpected, benefits of the new CBA. But these sports writers, and everybody else, always forget the minimum roster cap-hold. I have not heard anything about this being removed.

Say the cap grows to $61 mil. If the Knicks do not pick up Douglas they will have $40.8 mil locked up in 3 players (Amare, Melo, and Shumpert). Add in the minimum 12 roster cap hold of approximately $4,050,000 ($450,000 * 9) and the Knicks will have a team salary of $44.85 mil.

That leaves $16.15 mil in cap space to sign a 3rd max and $4 mil to fill the remaining 8 roster spots. I personally don't think that is enough to be able to beat Miami or Chicago and truly compete. I'll believe it when I see it.
 

Oldtimer

Rotation player
A Naysayer

I was very much a naysayer and although now I see some possibilities, I remain skeptical. and, by the way, I think Berman is an idiot and pay little attention to anything he writes.

LJ4ptplay's comments are, as usual, accurate. There is also another problem. If we go into 2012 with only Amare', Melo and Shumpert on the payroll, it means that during 2011-12 -- if there is a season -- we will have signed the rest of the team to one year contracts. Will Shawne Williams sign a one year deal? And what are we supposed to do with Landry Fields? Are we going to let him go in 2012? Would we trade him for a 2013 first round pick?

Perhaps we will have a mid-level exception in 2012 to be used on a decent player and to the extent there are also veteran minimum contracts that do not count against the cap, perhaps we can get a number of decent role players. Perhaps also some of the players released under the amnesty will play for the Knicks for short money. I do not thimk Dolan will be unwilling to get into luxury tax numbers.

I acknowledge there is a chance for a big three. I would be happy to eat crow. And I would prefer Howard over any of the others.
 

MeloforMayor

BALL DON'T LIE
Wow. Can you imagine having the BEST C in the game today playing with the arguably the most skilled offensive player? Gives me chills. Oh, we also have Amar'e? Now that's what I call a BIIIIIIIIG three (no homo)
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
The numbers really haven't changed much. The increase from a $58 mil cap to a $60-61 mil cap and the amnesty clause are certainly nice, and unexpected, benefits of the new CBA. But these sports writers, and everybody else, always forget the minimum roster cap-hold. I have not heard anything about this being removed.

Say the cap grows to $61 mil. If the Knicks do not pick up Douglas they will have $40.8 mil locked up in 3 players (Amare, Melo, and Shumpert). Add in the minimum 12 roster cap hold of approximately $4,050,000 ($450,000 * 9) and the Knicks will have a team salary of $44.85 mil.

That leaves $16.15 mil in cap space to sign a 3rd max and $4 mil to fill the remaining 8 roster spots. I personally don't think that is enough to be able to beat Miami or Chicago and truly compete. I'll believe it when I see it.

LJ, you have to remember that under the next CBA the max contract is sure to go down which will give us a few more million to work with. Add in whatever exceptions are left under the new contract and S&T possibilities and the future is bright!
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
LJ, you have to remember that under the next CBA the max contract is sure to go down which will give us a few more million to work with. Add in whatever exceptions are left under the new contract and S&T possibilities and the future is bright!

I agree that things are looking a little better. But unless the exception rules have changed, exceptions (e.g. MLE) are for teams that are at, or above the cap. If we are below the cap, the only money to spend during free agency is the team salary below the cap, unless you are referring to some other exceptions that I am unaware of, or I misunderstand your post.

Under the previous CBA, max contracts were 30% of the cap. If this percentage drops to 28% (I haven't heard any proposed numbers, have you?) and the cap is $61 mil, a max contract is $17.08 mil, still above what we are permitted to spend. A max player may take a pay cut his first year. That would be the only way we could afford a 3rd max.

But, as Oldtimer has pointed out, there are other problems that arise if we go the 3rd max route. And, as I pointed out earlier, this also goes under the assumption that it only takes 3 super stars and 9 minimum salary players to win a championship. I disagree with this concept and believe we should build as solid a TEAM as possible with our current assets and potential cap space.

Also, sign-and-trades typically require tradeable assets. What S&T possibilities are you referring to?
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
I agree that things are looking a little better. But unless the exception rules have changed, exceptions (e.g. MLE) are for teams that are at, or above the cap. If we are below the cap, the only money to spend during free agency is the team salary below the cap, unless you are referring to some other exceptions that I am unaware of, or I misunderstand your post.

Under the previous CBA, max contracts were 30% of the cap. If this percentage drops to 28% (I haven't heard any proposed numbers, have you?) and the cap is $61 mil, a max contract is $17.08 mil, still above what we are permitted to spend. A max player may take a pay cut his first year. That would be the only way we could afford a 3rd max.

But, as Oldtimer has pointed out, there are other problems that arise if we go the 3rd max route. And, as I pointed out earlier, this also goes under the assumption that it only takes 3 super stars and 9 minimum salary players to win a championship. I disagree with this concept and believe we should build as solid a TEAM as possible with our current assets and potential cap space.

Also, sign-and-trades typically require tradeable assets. What S&T possibilities are you referring to?

The exceptions kick in once we have spent our money in FA or via trade. I have not hear anything about new max numbers but have to assume they will be less.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
The exceptions kick in once we have spent our money in FA or via trade. I have not hear anything about new max numbers but have to assume they will be less.

I'm not sure what you are saying. I assume you are referring to veteran's minimum exceptions and after free agency has ended (i.e. 2013 free agency). A team that is under the cap during free agency cannot exceed the cap. That's the point of a cap. A team cannot spend all of its cap space and then use the MLE to add other players during the same free agent period. That team would have to wait until the following year's free agency period to use the MLE.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
I'm not sure what you are saying. I assume you are referring to veteran's minimum exceptions and after free agency has ended (i.e. 2013 free agency). A team that is under the cap during free agency cannot exceed the cap. That's the point of a cap. A team cannot spend all of its cap space and then use the MLE to add other players during the same free agent period. That team would have to wait until the following year's free agency period to use the MLE.

Are you sure about that? I thought once you are capped you can use the MLE. Maybe we have done that in the same year with S&T's that brought us over. I'm not a cap expert.
 

NYallDay

Benchwarmer
but isnt this what the heat did last year?.....use all their cap on the big 3, sign damiper and juwan howard and the like to vet mins to fill up the cap and then get mike miller on the MLE.....


I'm not sure what you are saying. I assume you are referring to veteran's minimum exceptions and after free agency has ended (i.e. 2013 free agency). A team that is under the cap during free agency cannot exceed the cap. That's the point of a cap. A team cannot spend all of its cap space and then use the MLE to add other players during the same free agent period. That team would have to wait until the following year's free agency period to use the MLE.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Are you sure about that? I thought once you are capped you can use the MLE. Maybe we have done that in the same year with S&T's that brought us over. I'm not a cap expert.

I am positive.

but isnt this what the heat did last year?.....use all their cap on the big 3, sign damiper and juwan howard and the like to vet mins to fill up the cap and then get mike miller on the MLE.....

No. The Big 3 all took less ($14 mil each) in order to sign Haslem, Miller and Joel Anthony to decent contracts (Haslem and Miller also took less than what they could have received elsewhere). They did not use the MLE on these players because the MLE was not available to them. They only spent their cap space and did not go above with these free agent signings. Miami is free to use the MLE this year though as they are currently over the cap.

You are correct, they did use the vet minimum exceptions to get Ziggy, Dampier and Howard. Vet minimum exceptions do not count against the cap. Not every player is eligible for a vet minimum contract though.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
I am positive.



No. The Big 3 all took less ($14 mil each) in order to sign Haslem, Miller and Joel Anthony to decent contracts (Haslem and Miller also took less than what they could have received elsewhere). They did not use the MLE on these players because the MLE was not available to them. They only spent their cap space and did not go above with these free agent signings. Miami is free to use the MLE this year though as they are currently over the cap.

You are correct, they did use the vet minimum exceptions to get Ziggy, Dampier and Howard. Vet minimum exceptions do not count against the cap. Not every player is eligible for a vet minimum contract though.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong about not being able to use the MLE in the same year you sign players that will take you close or over the cap.

If a team is below the cap, then their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions are added to their team salary, and the league treats the team as though they are over the cap. This is to prevent a loophole, in a manner similar to free agent amounts (see question numbers 30, 31, 32, 33). A team can't act like they're under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions. Consequently, the exceptions are added to their team salary (putting the team over the cap) if the team is under the cap and adding the exceptions puts them over the cap. If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary. There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents.

So being under the cap does not necessarily mean a team has room to sign free agents. For example, assume the cap is $49.5 million, and a team has $43 million committed to salaries. They also have a Mid-Level exception for $5 million and a Traded Player exception for $5.5 million. Even though their salaries put them $6.5 million under the cap, their exceptions are added to their salaries, putting them at $53.5 million, or $4 million over the cap. So they actually have no cap room to sign free agents, and instead must use their exceptions.

Teams have the option of renouncing their exceptions in order to claim the cap room. So in the example above, if the team renounced their Traded Player and Mid-Level exceptions, then the $10.5 million is taken off their team salary, which then totals $43 million, leaving them with $6.5 million of cap room which can then be used to sign free agent(s).

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q20
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
I'm pretty sure you are wrong about not being able to use the MLE in the same year you sign players that will take you close or over the cap.



http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q20

Yes this is correct, but the exceptions are withheld from their cap space. For example, if a team has $3 mil in cap space and the MLE is $5 mil, the team can choose to retain their right to hold the MLE, putting them $2 mil over the cap and giving them just $5 mil to spend instead of $3 mil. The team cannot spend the $3 mil in cap space and then use the MLE for an additional $5 mil for a total of $8 mil in free agent spending with only $3 mil in cap space, which is what you were implying (i.e. spend all of the $20 mil in cap sapce and then sign a MLE player), I believe.

As the link stated, teams under the cap can renounce their exceptions, as we did and Miami did last year.
 
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