Is Zack Randolph the answer?

Kiyaman · Aug 8, 2007

Toons said:
i have a question...if zeke traded ariza, penny and frye for zach randolph, dickau and fred jones....would you guys call that a good trade or a bad trade? because essentially that is what happened....we got francis for penny and ariza, and we got zach, dickau, jones or frye and francis.....i dont see how you guys can badmouth isiah for these players who we gave up chicken shit for...

No one has a clue on how Zack Randolph will workout with this Knick Roster.
What we all know for sure about Zack Randolph is that as soon as you pass him the ball he will force up a shot rather than pass the ball backout 9 out of every 10 times just like Eddy Curry. Meanning the Knicks added another "One on One" offensive player on the team like Curry, Crawford, and Marbury. So the Knicks will get doubled and trippled team as soon as one of these players receive the ball because they are not used to passing the ball or cutting to the basket without the ball, they are considered "Stand-Still-Players" waiting for the pass.

Channing Frye & Trevor Ariza meshing alongside each other off the bench is a great pair to have as a weapon on bothsides of the court as long as Curry is not on the court with them. Curry Low-Post game never fit well alongside Channing Frye with Coach Larry Brown that is why he played C-Jackie Butler & David Lee alongside of Channing Frye during their Rookie season to get a well performance from the Knicks frontcourt.
Coach Isiah Thomas forced all of Channing Frye Playingtime in the 2006-7 season alongside of Eddy Curry which never worked out from the first game of the season to the last game of the season.

Kiyaman · Aug 8, 2007

The truth be said, The Knicks had a great 2nd Unit of Raw talented athletic Rookies in C-Jackie Butler, PF-Frye, SF-Lee, SF/SG-Ariza, and PG-Nate that could've been molded within the last two seasons because they all LUV playing together as a unit. The above 5-players were all CHEAP Players getting close to the NBA Minimum Salary.

The Knicks high Salary Players Marbury, Crawford, Penny, Q.Richardson, Malik Rose, Davis, James, and Curry could not make up a decent STARTING-5-Unit to save their lives or a 8-Man rotation to play at a 500% level (with Hall of Fame Coach Larry Brown).

donchris · Aug 8, 2007

Kiyaman said:
No one has a clue on how Zack Randolph will workout with this Knick Roster.
What we all know for sure about Zack Randolph is that as soon as you pass him the ball he will force up a shot rather than pass the ball backout 9 out of every 10 times just like Eddy Curry. Meanning the Knicks added another "One on One" offensive player on the team like Curry, Crawford, and Marbury. So the Knicks will get doubled and trippled team as soon as one of these players receive the ball because they are not used to passing the ball or cutting to the basket without the ball, they are considered "Stand-Still-Players" waiting for the pass.

Channing Frye & Trevor Ariza meshing alongside each other off the bench is a great pair to have as a weapon on bothsides of the court as long as Curry is not on the court with them. Curry Low-Post game never fit well alongside Channing Frye with Coach Larry Brown that is why he played C-Jackie Butler & David Lee alongside of Channing Frye during their Rookie season to get a well performance from the Knicks frontcourt.
Coach Isiah Thomas forced all of Channing Frye Playingtime in the 2006-7 season alongside of Eddy Curry which never worked out from the first game of the season to the last game of the season.

You make a good point. I liked Ariza and his hustle and like most of us I was perplexed when I saw the trade go down. I thought Francis would do more but I always believed he was trade bait. Regarding the point on Randolph, once again Thomas as brought in an offensive minded player. But, Randolph is much more than that. His large body and rebounding alone is a great asset to the team. No question Thomas has work to do. He's got to make these guys work together as a team at all times and make Randolph know that there are 4 other guy on the floor with him. The key here that no one seems to mention is that Randolph had very little help in Portland. He was to Portland what Kobe is to the lakers. Zach didn't have the supporting cast that he has in NY. So the expectations of him should be different.

metrocard · Aug 8, 2007

donchris said:
The whole argument for David Lee starting was his rebounding ability. Now we've got a better rebounder and offensive player than Lee and some how it's a bad thing? Randolph is not known for defense but that does not make him a defensive liability. The fact that Zach's a better scorer and rebounder makes him better at that position. Theoretically we've gone from one of the best rebounding teams in the league to the best rebounding team in the league. How can Randolph help Curry on defense? That's a loaded question. How can a team mate help you defend your man? Double team.

Well said. Having Zach isn't a bad thing at all. You're right. Its accually a huge upgrade over Channing Frye and Francis(we subtracted two negatives and got a 20 and 10 player). But it isn't going to answer our main problems. (Defense and turnovers). Understand?

How are we the best rebounding team if the season didn't even start? We have a good chance of being the best, but let the season start.

Randolph isn't a help defender or a one on one defender, he's bad as a defender Curry is.

The answer to your the question you failed to answer is...

Randolph will never help Curry with his defensive woes.

So we have to hope Curry becomes a better defender or our perimeter defense is so good, we don't have to worry about Curry defender(Get Artest.)

jzero29 said:
Good rebounding leads to less second chances for oppossing teams. Zack and Q are both good rebounders, big solid bodies, box guys out. Playing along side curry, they take up alot of space, Could be like mason and oak alongside ewing, if they had the defensive hustle and mindset, which they don't, but you can hope that isiah instills this hunger for good D. I hate to say it, but bringing in someone like artest, with his defensive efforts could rub off on zach and curry.(q plays good d) I.T. would get my praise as a coach if he could get those guys to hustle on D. They have size and speed to be a good defense, they just need the will power and hustle. They need to want to play great D every time, they have to want to contest everyshot, box for every rebound, take the charge on every drive, make guys pay for comming into the paint. Will they? I doubt it, but it would make them a much better team. I think the Offense is set, minus jamaal crawford.(sorry, I'll hate him, untill he actually improves) The Defense really needs work. I remember the guards would funnel, players right to Ewing, oak and mason and they'd send them packing, bruised,blocked,battered and/or bleeding. No one fears eddy curry, randolph and Q, the guards know they don't block shots, they drive right in, look at isiahs pistons(oldschool) they were the bad boys, guards didn't want to drive in on them, and then Detroit again with ben wallace was the same. Ben and rasheed... no one wanted to go in on them. SO guards settle for jump shots, and with good defenders they took tough outside shots, and they missed.

We were ranked 20th in the NBA at team defense. The turnovers and soft defense in the paint played a huge factor. Randolph is known for a guy who can give your team turnovers and not be a defensive factor in the paint. Which is why I stand by my point of Randolph not helping us defensively, just giving us another scoring option.

You're actually right, rebounding help. Imagine having poor rebounders on this roster. We would of been ranked LAST in the NBA in defense. So I totally understand your point of rebounding helps. Balkman or Lee are superior rebounders compared to Zach, so its not like Zach is filling any gaps. All I see is Zach taking minutes from Lee and Balkman, the two most important Knicks on this roster. People will realize that this season, and should of realized that our recent season.

Great overall post though, glad we came to agree on mostly everything.

Forget the if's brother. It is what it is, just accept it. We just have to wait and see.

ShairanXIII · Aug 8, 2007

Larry Brown played Jackie Butler cuz LB was friends with Jackie's agent... he tried to get his numbers inflated at the expense of NY... notice how many teams were knocking down his door after that season? He was last seen collecting a check on SA's bench... At least Dyess and Mohammed got significant PT...

I'm with DonChris on this one... Zach's emergence was the reason Sheed got traded... He never had help and now should be playing a lot better with his Knick teammates next season... 23 and 10 doesn't happen by accident...

Knicks4lyfe · Aug 8, 2007

Kiyaman said:
No one has a clue on how Zack Randolph will workout with this Knick Roster.
What we all know for sure about Zack Randolph is that as soon as you pass him the ball he will force up a shot rather than pass the ball backout 9 out of every 10 times just like Eddy Curry. Meanning the Knicks added another "One on One" offensive player on the team like Curry, Crawford, and Marbury. So the Knicks will get doubled and trippled team as soon as one of these players receive the ball because they are not used to passing the ball or cutting to the basket without the ball, they are considered "Stand-Still-Players" waiting for the pass.

Channing Frye & Trevor Ariza meshing alongside each other off the bench is a great pair to have as a weapon on bothsides of the court as long as Curry is not on the court with them. Curry Low-Post game never fit well alongside Channing Frye with Coach Larry Brown that is why he played C-Jackie Butler & David Lee alongside of Channing Frye during their Rookie season to get a well performance from the Knicks frontcourt.
Coach Isiah Thomas forced all of Channing Frye Playingtime in the 2006-7 season alongside of Eddy Curry which never worked out from the first game of the season to the last game of the season.

Why would you say force up a shot instead of saying taking a shot within the offense? He will get his shots, there will be no need to force anything.

Zeke's offense gets the bigs the ball. Did it in Indy with Oneal and Miller, did it last year with Curry, Frye and Lee (contrary to what you are saying) Frye Got his shots. He was just so scared, he failed to put it in. Plus his lack of overall game. Other than a Jumpshot he is a crap shoot. Not even a headfake and dribble game. Post game non existant. Zach and Curry will share the load and share it well.

Everyone Zeke has Drafted since Ariza is better than him. What are you talking about?

Toons · Aug 9, 2007

Kiyaman said:
No one has a clue on how Zack Randolph will workout with this Knick Roster.
What we all know for sure about Zack Randolph is that as soon as you pass him the ball he will force up a shot rather than pass the ball backout 9 out of every 10 times just like Eddy Curry. Meanning the Knicks added another "One on One" offensive player on the team like Curry, Crawford, and Marbury. So the Knicks will get doubled and trippled team as soon as one of these players receive the ball because they are not used to passing the ball or cutting to the basket without the ball, they are considered "Stand-Still-Players" waiting for the pass.

Channing Frye & Trevor Ariza meshing alongside each other off the bench is a great pair to have as a weapon on bothsides of the court as long as Curry is not on the court with them. Curry Low-Post game never fit well alongside Channing Frye with Coach Larry Brown that is why he played C-Jackie Butler & David Lee alongside of Channing Frye during their Rookie season to get a well performance from the Knicks frontcourt.
Coach Isiah Thomas forced all of Channing Frye Playingtime in the 2006-7 season alongside of Eddy Curry which never worked out from the first game of the season to the last game of the season.

Ok, Mr. All Knowing Kiyaman.....if nobody knows how zach randolph will work out with this knicks roster, then how did u get that inside information that he will "jack up" every shot he gets? and if you did not watch zach play, youtube him, for a big man, he moves well without the ball, he rebounds...something that YOU were baggin on rashard lewis for and saying how desperately the knicks need a rebounder....when did crawford and marbury become stand still players? u make me wonder if u even watched knick games or if u are a real nba.com fan who only watches game son cable. A next question, how did jackie butler improve channing fry's rookie season if he only averaged .2 assists per game, playing 12 minutes per game? an frye played 24.....ur assumptions are not adding up buddy....and another question, how did curry impact frys 07 season? Frys minutes went up, his fg%, ft% blocks, rebounds, 3 pts, steals, EVERYTHING went down when he was given a time to shine. So u thought that coaches would not figure out to guard his little open 17 footer from the elbow, what does he have other than that? NOTHING!! An u say isiah forced him to play with curry in 06-07? jackie butler was on the spurs, and im sure u didnt want to see him play alongside jerome james....frye and ariza were not and are not a part of our young talented rookies....balkman is better than ariza, lee is better than frye...and we have randolph....think before you post...

Toons · Aug 9, 2007

metrocard said:
Balkman or Lee are superior rebounders compared to Zach, so its not like Zach is filling any gaps. All I see is Zach taking minutes from Lee and Balkman, the two most important Knicks on this roster. People will realize that this season, and should of realized that our recent season.

Great overall post though, glad we came to agree on mostly everything.

Forget the if's brother. It is what it is, just accept it. We just have to wait and see.

superior rebounds compared to randolph?? balkman and lee? come on now, ur giving these guys too much credit. balkman has not had 2 comsecutive games where he had 10 or more rebounds yet....pluss he's a small foward, zach has nothing to do with balkmans minutes...now lee on the other hand will be great energy off the bench, just as he was last year....randolph will not play 48 minutes per game.he and curry will be shifting between positions, lee will get his minutes guys...relax.....(and the 2 most importand knicks are marbury and curry)

Toons · Aug 9, 2007

Zach fills our gap at power foward!

donchris · Aug 9, 2007

I can't take anything away from Lee and Balkman but they are not the most valuable players. They aren't franchise players but the are valuable. They do the grunt work and that's what the Knicks need right now. What I don't get is posters that think the Francis trade was bad but think getting Randolph was a bad move as well. You can't have it both ways. Was getting Francis a good thing or not? If it was a bad move then shipping him off was a good move right? This isn't targeted to any one poster. I just want to point out the illogical bickering that is taking place here.

Metro is correct. Turn overs was an issue last year and will need to be addressed.

lilman_bklyn · Aug 9, 2007

Why is this even a debate.. Is Zack Randolph the answer to the knicks problems... NO he is not. Actually HELL NO!!! People please stop looking at the fact that he scored 20 and grabbed 10 rebounds per. Knicks were the 5th ranked rebounding team in the league last year and though we only averaged 97 points a game, that was still more than Cavs and a couple of other playoff teams, and just a point less than other playoff teams (Bulls, Spurs, Nets) so basically the two areas that Randolph is good at, the knicks didn't need that great of help in. The knicks were crap in defense, especially perimeter defensive. They were crap in blocking shots or even intimidating people from coming in the lane, they needed a consistant perimeter shooter to keep defenses from collapsing down on Curry, and of course turnovers. Zack Randolph does not assist the Knicks in any of these categories. He is a good player, please don't mis understand me.. but he is not the player the knicks need. In actuality, at this point in his career I would even say he is a better player than Curry, though I do believe Curry's game will improve and Zack's game will remain the same so Curry will surpass Zack, but the two are basically the same player. Two bulking big men who dominate inside.Yes I did see how Zack takes jump shots here and there but if we have Zack taking jump shots while he and Curry are on the floor, then those offensive rebounds that he is known for will suddenly go by the waisteline...
Us Knicks fans use to appreciate defense. We use to know how important a defensive team is in order to be successful in the league. We use to watch the knicks go into the 4th quater of playoffs games trailing, and have the game endwith the knicks on top because our defense held the team to 10 points in the fourth quarter. That is our lineage, that is what the knicks of today should be striving to achieve. I'm good with the amount of points we score, shoot Memphis averaged 101 points last year and look where that got them. Alot of people are arguing the fact that Zack is a good player, and better player than what we gave up and what not, all of those points are true for the most part. But the Question that was asked was "Is Zack Randolph the answer?" the answer to that question should be clearly no he is not.
Yes it was a coup for the knicks to get him for Francis and Frye, but now that we have him, lets ship him out for someone that will benefit the Knicks better. *&#% the Zack Randolph Trade

LakeGeorgeMan · Aug 9, 2007

Zach is not the answer, but he is a better all-around player then Frye and we shed Francis who is done.

That's all the trade is about. Frye will never be a 20-10 man in this league.

If Q is healthy and playing the 2, our perimeter D gets better. Stephon really stepped up his perimeter D when he was healthy in the middle of last season.
Balkman can play D, and JJ SHOULD be able to. Collins can play some D at back-up point.

That leaves Crawford/Curry/Randolph. If there is one thing that would change this team defensively, is if Eddy Curry got in good shape and made an effort on the defensive end.

I'm not asking for Alonzo Mourning, but perhaps at least Jermaine O'Neal.

The other big problem is turnovers, and here too, Curry needs to work on his low post IQ, to reduce the number of turnovers.

donchris · Aug 9, 2007

lilman_bklyn said:
Why is this even a debate.. Is Zack Randolph the answer to the knicks problems... NO he is not. Actually HELL NO!!! People please stop looking at the fact that he scored 20 and grabbed 10 rebounds per. Knicks were the 5th ranked rebounding team in the league last year and though we only averaged 97 points a game, that was still more than Cavs and a couple of other playoff teams, and just a point less than other playoff teams (Bulls, Spurs, Nets) so basically the two areas that Randolph is good at, the knicks didn't need that great of help in. The knicks were crap in defense, especially perimeter defensive. They were crap in blocking shots or even intimidating people from coming in the lane, they needed a consistant perimeter shooter to keep defenses from collapsing down on Curry, and of course turnovers. Zack Randolph does not assist the Knicks in any of these categories. He is a good player, please don't mis understand me.. but he is not the player the knicks need. In actuality, at this point in his career I would even say he is a better player than Curry, though I do believe Curry's game will improve and Zack's game will remain the same so Curry will surpass Zack, but the two are basically the same player. Two bulking big men who dominate inside.Yes I did see how Zack takes jump shots here and there but if we have Zack taking jump shots while he and Curry are on the floor, then those offensive rebounds that he is known for will suddenly go by the waisteline...
Us Knicks fans use to appreciate defense. We use to know how important a defensive team is in order to be successful in the league. We use to watch the knicks go into the 4th quater of playoffs games trailing, and have the game endwith the knicks on top because our defense held the team to 10 points in the fourth quarter. That is our lineage, that is what the knicks of today should be striving to achieve. I'm good with the amount of points we score, shoot Memphis averaged 101 points last year and look where that got them. Alot of people are arguing the fact that Zack is a good player, and better player than what we gave up and what not, all of those points are true for the most part. But the Question that was asked was "Is Zack Randolph the answer?" the answer to that question should be clearly no he is not.
Yes it was a coup for the knicks to get him for Francis and Frye, but now that we have him, lets ship him out for someone that will benefit the Knicks better. *&#% the Zack Randolph Trade

There is all of this talk about how great the Knicks were and how strong of a defensive presence they had, bla bla bla........ Here's what people don't get. Teams need BALANCE... All that defense and Ewing still went home with out a ring. If you want the prise you need guys that play hard nose defense and guys that can make tough shots. You need a Kobe and an Artest. This is why I like Curry. He's not the best and needs work but he's got over 65% of his game down. Now he's just got to work on the other 35%.

LJ4ptplay · Aug 9, 2007

lilman_bklyn said:
Why is this even a debate.. Is Zack Randolph the answer to the knicks problems... NO he is not. Actually HELL NO!!! People please stop looking at the fact that he scored 20 and grabbed 10 rebounds per. Knicks were the 5th ranked rebounding team in the league last year and though we only averaged 97 points a game, that was still more than Cavs and a couple of other playoff teams, and just a point less than other playoff teams (Bulls, Spurs, Nets) so basically the two areas that Randolph is good at, the knicks didn't need that great of help in. The knicks were crap in defense, especially perimeter defensive. They were crap in blocking shots or even intimidating people from coming in the lane, they needed a consistant perimeter shooter to keep defenses from collapsing down on Curry, and of course turnovers. Zack Randolph does not assist the Knicks in any of these categories. He is a good player, please don't mis understand me.. but he is not the player the knicks need. In actuality, at this point in his career I would even say he is a better player than Curry, though I do believe Curry's game will improve and Zack's game will remain the same so Curry will surpass Zack, but the two are basically the same player. Two bulking big men who dominate inside.Yes I did see how Zack takes jump shots here and there but if we have Zack taking jump shots while he and Curry are on the floor, then those offensive rebounds that he is known for will suddenly go by the waisteline...
Us Knicks fans use to appreciate defense. We use to know how important a defensive team is in order to be successful in the league. We use to watch the knicks go into the 4th quater of playoffs games trailing, and have the game endwith the knicks on top because our defense held the team to 10 points in the fourth quarter. That is our lineage, that is what the knicks of today should be striving to achieve. I'm good with the amount of points we score, shoot Memphis averaged 101 points last year and look where that got them. Alot of people are arguing the fact that Zack is a good player, and better player than what we gave up and what not, all of those points are true for the most part. But the Question that was asked was "Is Zack Randolph the answer?" the answer to that question should be clearly no he is not.
Yes it was a coup for the knicks to get him for Francis and Frye, but now that we have him, lets ship him out for someone that will benefit the Knicks better. *&#% the Zack Randolph Trade

Amen. Everyone here thinks the Knicks will challenge to be Atlantic Conference champions and will go far in the playoffs because we have Zach now. That is ridiculous. Just because Zach has better numbers than Frye doesn't mean he is going to improve the Knicks. Heck, Frye has a better jumpshot than Zach and Z is going to have to take a lot of jumpshots if Eddy is still the focal point offensively. Unless both are kept in the low post, and if that happens the double teams on Eddy and Zach will be coming all the time and the Knicks will lead the league in turnovers, again!

If anybody watched last season, the games that the Knicks won, particularly against the good teams (i.e. Detroit, Cleveland, etc.) were the games that they kept the turnovers low and hustled on defense. Zach does not address any of those issues. The Knicks still need a perimeter defender who isn't a total liability on offense and a shot-blocker/intimidator.

How are the Knicks going to be a playoff team next year? I see a lot of people saying that we were in the playoff hunt last year until injuries killed us, which is bulls**t. We were still a below .500 team fighting for the last spot in the most pathetic division in NBA history. The teams that we will be fighting against for a playoff spot got a lot better this offseason. The Knicks only got a 20 and 10 guy who doesn't really make the Knicks a better TEAM.

The 1 and Only · Aug 9, 2007

What are the holes for this team and what are the team problems walking into the offseason...

1. Need of a perimeter shooter/defender
2. Limit TOs
3. Find Curry a better complement
4. Improve team chemistry
5. Improve ball movement

Now this is before adding Z-Bo. After adding Z-Bo and running through this list this is what he addresses. He will somewhat limit TOs because he is not the focal point of an offense anymore so the defensive pressure will not be as heavy and the pressure to score won't be as heavy because he has better complementary players with him.

Z-Bo is a better complementary player than Frye since Z-Bo rebounds the ball better and can also hit that outside jumper. Z-Bo can also drive to the basket and work with some moves off the dribble (something Frye could not do).

The addition of Z-Bo shakes of team chemistry a little bit but not that much since he's an upgrade on offense. But on defense he could be a liablity. Hopefully he'll improve on that aspect of his game since that's what everyone seems to tag on him.

If Isiah preaches the low post offense heavily then ball movement shouldn't be a problem. Z-Bo and Curry know they're going to get close to equal touches so "forcing" or "chucking" up shots shouldn't be a problem from them thus TO's should also shrink.

Most are looking at the obvious and ONLY at the numbers on his stat sheet instead of looking on how he is going play along Curry in this low post focused offense.

Kiyaman · Aug 9, 2007

lilman_bklyn said:
Why is this even a debate.. Is Zack Randolph the answer to the knicks problems... NO he is not. Actually HELL NO!!! People please stop looking at the fact that he scored 20 and grabbed 10 rebounds per. Knicks were the 5th ranked rebounding team in the league last year and though we only averaged 97 points a game, that was still more than Cavs and a couple of other playoff teams, and just a point less than other playoff teams (Bulls, Spurs, Nets) so basically the two areas that Randolph is good at, the knicks didn't need that great of help in. The knicks were crap in defense, especially perimeter defensive. They were crap in blocking shots or even intimidating people from coming in the lane, they needed a consistant perimeter shooter to keep defenses from collapsing down on Curry, and of course turnovers. Zack Randolph does not assist the Knicks in any of these categories. He is a good player, please don't mis understand me.. but he is not the player the knicks need. In actuality, at this point in his career I would even say he is a better player than Curry, though I do believe Curry's game will improve and Zack's game will remain the same so Curry will surpass Zack, but the two are basically the same player. Two bulking big men who dominate inside.Yes I did see how Zack takes jump shots here and there but if we have Zack taking jump shots while he and Curry are on the floor, then those offensive rebounds that he is known for will suddenly go by the waisteline...
Us Knicks fans use to appreciate defense. We use to know how important a defensive team is in order to be successful in the league. We use to watch the knicks go into the 4th quater of playoffs games trailing, and have the game endwith the knicks on top because our defense held the team to 10 points in the fourth quarter. That is our lineage, that is what the knicks of today should be striving to achieve. I'm good with the amount of points we score, shoot Memphis averaged 101 points last year and look where that got them. Alot of people are arguing the fact that Zack is a good player, and better player than what we gave up and what not, all of those points are true for the most part. But the Question that was asked was "Is Zack Randolph the answer?" the answer to that question should be clearly no he is not.
Yes it was a coup for the knicks to get him for Francis and Frye, but now that we have him, lets ship him out for someone that will benefit the Knicks better. *&#% the Zack Randolph Trade

I have to agree Bigtime. You have alot of Knick-Fans all over acting as if the Zack Randolph trade was the Knicks getting 6 season All Star Jermaine O'Neal whom Defensive performance is better than his 20-10 stats. Plus you could pass the ball to a moving J.O'Neal, however Zack & Curry are the same because they have to postup downlow and get good position before you throw them the ball or it will lead to a turnover (they both are not good passing Bigmen which I know will be Assistant Coach Mark Aquire biggest task this season with Zack & Curry).

The 1 and Only · Aug 9, 2007

Check this out...

<youtube> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9V8T6PzwhS8"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9V8T6PzwhS8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> </youtube>

Some of ya'll might have already seen this...seems like he's ready. In shape, plans to be a team player...I think we have something here.

J O'Neal is a weak PF. That's why the kid can never stay healthy

lilman_bklyn · Aug 9, 2007

The 1 and Only said:
Check this out...

<youtube> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9V8T6PzwhS8"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9V8T6PzwhS8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> </youtube>

Some of ya'll might have already seen this...seems like he's ready. In shape, plans to be a team player...I think we have something here.

J O'Neal is a weak PF. That's why the kid can never stay healthy

Define your definition of weak?

The fact that ever since he became a starter he's averaged about 20 points 2 blocks 10 rebounds and is known as one of the better defenive big men in the game, is that your definition of weak? if your definition is injuries he's missed some games because of that, but so has Randolph. over the past 3 seasons he's only played in 20 or so less games than Randolph. If you are talking about production, you can not honestly think that Randolph is better than O'Neil, and you can not honestly think that Randolph is a better fit for the Knicks than O'Neil would have been.

metrocard · Aug 9, 2007

lilman_bklyn said:
Why is this even a debate.. Is Zack Randolph the answer to the knicks problems... NO he is not. Actually HELL NO!!! People please stop looking at the fact that he scored 20 and grabbed 10 rebounds per. Knicks were the 5th ranked rebounding team in the league last year and though we only averaged 97 points a game, that was still more than Cavs and a couple of other playoff teams, and just a point less than other playoff teams (Bulls, Spurs, Nets) so basically the two areas that Randolph is good at, the knicks didn't need that great of help in. The knicks were crap in defense, especially perimeter defensive. They were crap in blocking shots or even intimidating people from coming in the lane, they needed a consistant perimeter shooter to keep defenses from collapsing down on Curry, and of course turnovers. Zack Randolph does not assist the Knicks in any of these categories. He is a good player, please don't mis understand me.. but he is not the player the knicks need. In actuality, at this point in his career I would even say he is a better player than Curry, though I do believe Curry's game will improve and Zack's game will remain the same so Curry will surpass Zack, but the two are basically the same player. Two bulking big men who dominate inside.Yes I did see how Zack takes jump shots here and there but if we have Zack taking jump shots while he and Curry are on the floor, then those offensive rebounds that he is known for will suddenly go by the waisteline...
Us Knicks fans use to appreciate defense. We use to know how important a defensive team is in order to be successful in the league. We use to watch the knicks go into the 4th quater of playoffs games trailing, and have the game endwith the knicks on top because our defense held the team to 10 points in the fourth quarter. That is our lineage, that is what the knicks of today should be striving to achieve. I'm good with the amount of points we score, shoot Memphis averaged 101 points last year and look where that got them. Alot of people are arguing the fact that Zack is a good player, and better player than what we gave up and what not, all of those points are true for the most part. But the Question that was asked was "Is Zack Randolph the answer?" the answer to that question should be clearly no he is not.
Yes it was a coup for the knicks to get him for Francis and Frye, but now that we have him, lets ship him out for someone that will benefit the Knicks better. *&#% the Zack Randolph Trade

You've seen the light.

Don't say fuck the Randolph trade, it helped us. Zach Randolph isn't the answer though, to any of our biggest weaknesses.

LJ4ptplay said:
Amen. Everyone here thinks the Knicks will challenge to be Atlantic Conference champions and will go far in the playoffs because we have Zach now. That is ridiculous. Just because Zach has better numbers than Frye doesn't mean he is going to improve the Knicks. Heck, Frye has a better jumpshot than Zach and Z is going to have to take a lot of jumpshots if Eddy is still the focal point offensively. Unless both are kept in the low post, and if that happens the double teams on Eddy and Zach will be coming all the time and the Knicks will lead the league in turnovers, again!

If anybody watched last season, the games that the Knicks won, particularly against the good teams (i.e. Detroit, Cleveland, etc.) were the games that they kept the turnovers low and hustled on defense. Zach does not address any of those issues. The Knicks still need a perimeter defender who isn't a total liability on offense and a shot-blocker/intimidator.

How are the Knicks going to be a playoff team next year? I see a lot of people saying that we were in the playoff hunt last year until injuries killed us, which is bulls**t. We were still a below .500 team fighting for the last spot in the most pathetic division in NBA history. The teams that we will be fighting against for a playoff spot got a lot better this offseason. The Knicks only got a 20 and 10 guy who doesn't really make the Knicks a better TEAM.

Amen. We gotta have hope brother, theres too many question marks.

Kiyaman said:
I have to agree Bigtime. You have alot of Knick-Fans all over acting as if the Zack Randolph trade was the Knicks getting 6 season All Star Jermaine O'Neal whom Defensive performance is better than his 20-10 stats. Plus you could pass the ball to a moving J.O'Neal, however Zack & Curry are the same because they have to postup downlow and get good position before you throw them the ball or it will lead to a turnover (they both are not good passing Bigmen which I know will be Assistant Coach Mark Aquire biggest task this season with Zack & Curry).

Co-sign with this.

Toons said:
superior rebounds compared to randolph?? balkman and lee? come on now, ur giving these guys too much credit. balkman has not had 2 comsecutive games where he had 10 or more rebounds yet....pluss he's a small foward, zach has nothing to do with balkmans minutes...now lee on the other hand will be great energy off the bench, just as he was last year....randolph will not play 48 minutes per game.he and curry will be shifting between positions, lee will get his minutes guys...relax.....(and the 2 most importand knicks are marbury and curry)

Wrong.

How do you give Balkman and Lee too much credits, did you watch our team last season? These guys brought everything on the court and saved our asses so many times, especially when Crawford and Curry were stinking it up as the main go to guys with their sloppy turnovers and poorest defense.

Lee and Balkman are superior rebounders compared to Randolph. Randolph is a good rebounder, but Lee and Balkman can change the tempo of the game with their offensive rebounding and hustle plays.

Who gives a fuck about 10 rebounds? Its just a number, Balkman averages 11-12 rebounds per 40 minutes. He rebounds at a high rate, higher than Randolph. Plus he plays defense, passes, handles the ball in the fastbreak, PUSHES the ball. Every weakness Curry and Randolph have, Balkman is excellent at it, which is why Balkman's value is so fucking high. We trade Balkman we'll be so one dimensional and back to winning 20 games a season.

Trust me, Randolph/Curry starting won't be bigger factors than Balkman/Lee off the bench.

Lee/Balkman need to get 30+ minutes. If I was GM, I would package Curry/Randolph for a real elite top 5 big man and center our franchise around him with excellent role players like Collins, Balkman and Lee and an all star PG like Marbury with a deep bench. Thats a championship team to me. Hopefully I'm wrong about two soft big men like Curry and Randolph.

The 1 and Only · Aug 9, 2007

you want to know my definition of weak...my definition of weak is being able to average 90% of your blocks by helpside defense and not being able to stop your man one on one. My definition of weak is averaging 20+ pts a game and being defensively overwhelmed by Chuck Hayes lol. Do work chuck do work...love hustle out of chuck. Weak is when the last healthy season he had was 2002-2003...that's weak. He's not the greatest rebounder either. Randolph rebounds and scores better than O'Neal. O'Neal is more athletic, fragile, and is a better defender. Plus O'neal shot 43.7% from the field...he's the Jamal Crawford of PFs lol. I like our chances with Randolph.

Is Zack Randolph the answer?

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