Iman Shumpert's attitude

metrocard

Legend
Jason Terry's career took off in Dallas with Dirk and last time I checked Tyson Chandler won DPOY playing next to Dirk. Throw a little mix of J.J. Berrea, along with Josh Howard, Erika Dampier(from and efficiency standpoint), Najera. I mean there were several players who got pizzaid because of playing with Dirk.

All of this is wrong.

Jason Terry always be a good player before Dallas, check his days with the Hawks.

Jose Juan Barea had his career year in Minnesota, not Dallas. If anything, Kidd/Terry made him a better player, not Dirk.
Erick Dampier and Najera are intangible players, their performance had nothing to do with Dirk infact they made Dirk better by filling in for the void that Dirk left, defense and rebounding. Without them Dirk's performance would of plummet greatly from all the work he has to do on defense, similar to Carmelo Anthony today.
 

skisloper

Starter
All of this is wrong.

Jason Terry always be a good player before Dallas, check his days with the Hawks.

Jose Juan Barea had his career year in Minnesota, not Dallas. If anything, Kidd/Terry made him a better player, not Dirk.
Erick Dampier and Najera are intangible players, their performance had nothing to do with Dirk infact they made Dirk better by filling in for the void that Dirk left, defense and rebounding. Without them Dirk's performance would of plummet greatly from all the work he has to do on defense, similar to Carmelo Anthony today.


Metro you keep making excuses of why Melo should not give a 100% on defense.......do you not think Melo is capable ?

I think a player should do whatever is necessary to for their team to be better.......When a team Gels you have to look at its start player..............is there anything you think Melo should do better that he is choosing not to do ?

Do you think Melo would be happy scoring 20 a game on less touches and him using that energy for defense ?
 
so basically you're saying that Iman being angry is why we are 3-13. haha. you're all such idiots. ya one guys attitude explains 3-13. try again dummies

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metrocard

Legend
Metro you keep making excuses of why Melo should not give a 100% on defense.......do you not think Melo is capable ?

I think a player should do whatever is necessary to for their team to be better.......When a team Gels you have to look at its start player..............is there anything you think Melo should do better that he is choosing not to do ?

Do you think Melo would be happy scoring 20 a game on less touches and him using that energy for defense ?

Melo should play defense, but most superstars aren't lock down defenders. Kobe hasn't been a lockdown defender since 2007.

Just because a guy scores 26 ppg doesn't mean you should expect him to play lock down defense.

Melo's defense was never that bad anyway, he slacks on some plays but that's been the entire team this season.
 

skisloper

Starter
Melo should play defense, but most superstars aren't lock down defenders. Kobe hasn't been a lockdown defender since 2007.

Just because a guy scores 26 ppg doesn't mean you should expect him to play lock down defense.

Melo's defense was never that bad anyway, he slacks on some plays but that's been the entire team this season.


See you said it again " he slacks on some plays "...........Melo should not be slacking. We are in dire times right now and who greater then our superstar to step up. Maybe Melo feels too much is on his back I have no idea but either way we still must look to Melo as he should be the team leader.

I think also the league is changing and Defense is what makes winners...........

Lets not kid ourselves Melo is shooting less then 40% so the 26 points is coming at a price and keeping other guys from getting involved. I think his energy might be better spent on the defensive end....

Always best to see your team leader giving a 100% all the time.......Remember last year when Melo dove into the crowd to save a ball and everyone in the garden went nuts ....well when was the last time you saw that ?

You have settled with who Melo is and call his lapses just lapses I call them bad leadership from our franchise player....

Whats we dont know is what coach Woodson is saying..........I am still blown away by his insistance that JR played the entire 4th quarter while JR said he lost his man the entire 4th quarter.....thats just mind boggling.


Right now we are in a disaster and if not our franchise player then who should give a 100% all the time.
 

metrocard

Legend
you played ball before? It's almost impossible to be perfect on every possession. Everyone messes up or slacks on a play or two. NBA games are 48 minutes a piece more than any basketball league out there.

I agree JR should stop playing so many minutes until he drives to the baja more and plays defense.

I do want Melo to play more defense so I'm not disagreeing with you.
 

Broadway

All Star
All of this is wrong.

Jason Terry always be a good player before Dallas, check his days with the Hawks.

Jose Juan Barea had his career year in Minnesota, not Dallas. If anything, Kidd/Terry made him a better player, not Dirk.
Erick Dampier and Najera are intangible players, their performance had nothing to do with Dirk infact they made Dirk better by filling in for the void that Dirk left, defense and rebounding. Without them Dirk's performance would of plummet greatly from all the work he has to do on defense, similar to Carmelo Anthony today.


Career yrs are always subjective. I stand by all the players listed. They were clearly more efficient and accounted for playing with Dirk. Go look at Terry's numbers again. Gotta stop looking at PPG as the end all be all to everything surmising career yrs. I'm sure they'd tell you the same.
 

skisloper

Starter
you played ball before? It's almost impossible to be perfect on every possession. Everyone messes up or slacks on a play or two. NBA games are 48 minutes a piece more than any basketball league out there.

I agree JR should stop playing so many minutes until he drives to the baja more and plays defense.

I do want Melo to play more defense so I'm not disagreeing with you.


Nobody is asking for perfection......Just asking for effort.....Melo's lapses seem to be effort......Do you remember when Melo would guard Lebron .......thats the effort that should be put on the floor in every game.....especially when we have a huge losing streak....

JR should sit for 3 games.
 

Rob Low

Rotation player
Jason Terry's career took off in Dallas with Dirk and last time I checked Tyson Chandler won DPOY playing next to Dirk. Throw a little mix of J.J. Berrea, along with Josh Howard, Erika Dampier(from and efficiency standpoint), Najera. I mean there were several players who got pizzaid because of playing with Dirk.

Tyson didn't win DPOY in Dallas. He actually won it playing alongside Melo. He also made his first all star game and won a gold medal playing alongside Melo so try again.
 

skisloper

Starter
Tyson didn't win DPOY in Dallas. He actually won it playing alongside Melo. He also made his first all star game and won a gold medal playing alongside Melo so try again.

That basically because the voters no how lax melo is on defense they needed to honor Chandler with being the total defensive force for the Knicks.....Obviously you can build a team around Dirk as he is that kind of player.....Now we can only hope is it possible to build a team around Melo or is his one dimenaional play make it nearly impossible. I guess free agency will be a good indicator of what other teams think of melo ..............Remember how nobody offered JR a penny was assunption that nobody wanted him.....I do not think Melo will be offered a max contract unless its a team that has a better STAR meaning a Lebron or Durant.
 

Broadway

All Star
Tyson didn't win DPOY in Dallas. He actually won it playing alongside Melo. He also made his first all star game and won a gold medal playing alongside Melo so try again.

TC finished 3rd in voting playing with Dirk my bad.


I stand corrected?... but his recognition from winning a chip with Dirk and anchoring their defense during that run is what garnered more consideration for him being the Top DPOY candidate, the following season. He came to New York with that credibility as he never finished higher than 9th in his career up until that point.

If you want to attribute his winning it due to playing alongside Melo when Melo missed several games in a shortened lockout season, that's cool. We amnestied Billups and signed TC to a $50mil contract after his season with Dirk, quite frankly because it truly was a career yr(looking at usage rate) for Tyson.
 

JazRedGT

Benchwarmer
Ekhm, so you're basically saying it's Bargs' fault Melo's playing lazy ass defense? FYI, on that particular play Bargnani did nothing wrong, he kept his guy in check and he defended the paint.

I agree 100%! Anderson was not Bargs man. Bargs man was not the 3pt threat.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
This attitude is what is wrong with us.

I agree, but it's a fatal flaw in the way the team plays.

No other player of Melo's caliber has to shoulder the offensive load alone. LBJ, Durant, Westbrook, PG, Blake, CP3, LMA, Lillard, Steph, hell...even Cousins... they're all either highly talented players on team's where the offensive concepts are geared towards ball movement and body movements off pin downs & screens, or they are the the PG and they run the team.

Too often the ball is given to Melo with the shot clock running down, and there's no one in position to even set a screen for anyone else. So even if guys were to move, they'd be moving with a defender right in their hip pocket.

How many times have we seen CP3 cross half court, and dribble the clock out before some lame bail out pass, all the while JJ Reddick is just standing there looking at him?

Bad example because he's a PG?

How often do we see LBJ with the ball in his hand and everyone is clearing out the court for him to go 1-on-1, and eventually 1-on-everybody? Not often. We see the floor appropriately spaced for LBJ, and he has options. Sometimes it's a PnR and he comes off the pick hard, forcing help to come, and he'll make that little pocket pass to the big filling space on the lower block once his man vacates and goes to help on LBJ (we saw Birdman living around the rim, and just killing the Pacers and Spurs doing this in the playoffs); or because the court is spaced appropriately as opposed to everyone just standing around while he isolates on the wing, LBJ still has options when he drives, if he drives.

Or even PG. He receives the ball in the flow of the offensive set. It's not dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, give the ball to Paul.

So seeing as how there doesn't seem to be a team concept on the offensive end, and it's just give it to Melo and watch him take on the world, I question how much he has in the tank to give on the other end of the court.

Not making excuses, maybe we can legitimately question his conditioning then.

But I brought it up before, and I think it's worth repeating. Remember, Melo's bad defense under MDA, or early last year, was far more often a question of playing smart as opposed to effort. I routinely remember him making the silliest fouls closing out on his man, when Woody was only an assistant coach, as opposed to the head man. Melo would switch, and then go flying at someone to contest the shot and foul them. We also remember his effort on D early last season.

What's the common denominator?

Under MDA, the offense was constantly high PnR and then maybe Melo got to take a bad shot from the perimeter, but he was never on the wing iso'd up, taking on the whole team; and early last year, the ball was swinging around the perimeter and the team was launching 3s from the opening tip.

With Woodson now employing his equally as bad, poorly planned....if there is even a god damn plan...Iso offense, that we saw in ATL with Joe Johnson. Melo is the offense when he's on the floor. To a fault. But this is not a new development with Mike.

There's a reason why he was fired after his 50+ win team was eliminated in the second round in ATL.
 
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metrocard

Legend
I agree, but it's a fatal flaw in the way the team plays.

No other player of Melo's caliber has to shoulder the offensive load alone. LBJ, Durant, Westbrook, PG, Blake, CP3, LMA, Lillard, Steph, hell...even Cousins... they're all either highly talented players on team's where the offensive concepts are geared towards ball movement and body movements off pin downs & screens, or they are the the PG and they run the team.

Too often the ball is given to Melo with the shot clock running down, and there's no one in position to even set a screen for anyone else. So even if guys were to move, they'd be moving with a defender right in their hip pocket.

How many times have we seen CP3 cross half court, and dribble the clock out before some lame bail out pass, all the while JJ Reddick is just standing there looking at him?

Bad example because he's a PG?

How often do we see LBJ with the ball in his hand and everyone is clearing out the court for him to go 1-on-1, and eventually 1-on-everybody? Not often. We see the floor appropriately spaced for LBJ, and he has options. Sometimes it's a PnR and he comes off the pick hard, forcing help to come, and he'll make that little pocket pass to the big filling space on the lower block once his man vacates and goes to help on LBJ (we saw Birdman living around the rim, and just killing the Pacers and Spurs doing this in the playoffs); or because the court is spaced appropriately as opposed to everyone just standing around while he isolates on the wing, LBJ still has options when he drives, if he drives.

Or even PG. He receives the ball in the flow of the offensive set. It's not dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, give the ball to Paul.

So seeing as how there doesn't seem to be a team concept on the offensive end, and it's just give it to Melo and watch him take on the world, I question how much he has in the tank to give on the other end of the court.

Not making excuses, maybe we can legitimately question his conditioning then.

But I brought it up before, and I think it's worth repeating. Remember, Melo's bad defense under MDA, or early last year, was far more often a question of playing smart as opposed to effort. I routinely remember him making the silliest fouls closing out on his man, when Woody was only an assistant coach, as opposed to the head man. Melo would switch, and then go flying at someone to contest the shot and foul them. We also remember his effort on D early last season.

What's the common denominator?

Under MDA, the offense was constantly high PnR and then maybe Melo got to take a bad shot from the perimeter, but he was never on the wing iso'd up, taking on the whole team; and early last year, the ball was swinging around the perimeter and the team was launching 3s from the opening tip.

With Woodson now employing his equally as bad, poorly planned....if there is even a god damn plan...Iso offense, that we saw in ATL with Joe Johnson. Melo is the offense when he's on the floor. To a fault. But this is not a new development with Mike.

There's a reason why he was fired after his 50+ win team was eliminated in the second round in ATL.

Great post.
 

skisloper

Starter
Great post.


Metro I cannot believe you agree.....


There cannot be more of a perfect setting then tomorrow night for the Knicks to break this losing streak and snap back into playing basketball......I like that Melo is saying the Knicks are a laughing stock........No doubt Melo will do all he can tomorrow to win....NOW lets just hope Woodson is not the stubborn Moron he has been .......

Felton/prigs should split the game period.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
This attitude is what is wrong with us.
IMO the problem is Melo's defensive effort dropped dramatically this season. His opponents PER is [compared to last season] +1.7 when Melo's playing PF and [!!!] +13.9 when Melo's playing his natural position, which is SF. Look at these stats of our starting lineup:

Opponent's PER:
Felton: 17.2
Shumpert: 16.3
Anthony: 26.7
Martin: 10.7
Bargnani: 16.1

My point is... statistically even STAT is a better defender this year (defensive PER: 23.0).
 

smokes

Huge Member
ShumpMelo_argue_20131201_a.gif


Somebody please explain to me why this is Melos fault? he switched with Shumpert and took Holiday instead of leaving him WIDE OPEN. Shumpert then decides to truck Smith instead of doing something intelligent. Bargnani is the only one standing in the middle of nowhere doing nothing.

Try again.

Because he probably wasn't supposed to switch but switched due to laziness?

I was glad to see Shump get on Melo's case, someone has to do it since Woodson clearly ain't doing ****.

If anything Shumps frustration probably comes from being bitched on all day by Woodson for every little mistake and watching other teammates being left to their own devices. I can understand Woodson might be getting on Shump for motivational purposes but he obviously isn't going about it the right way.
 
With news of Melo possibly wanting to leave us, we absolutely, positively, can't dump Shump, regardless of any perceived attitude issues. I know I'm just pointing out the obvious but Shump and THJ are the closest things we have to a future for this team if Melo walks.
 
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