Let's end this NOW!

TR1LL10N said:

A sample size of 8 or even triple that means nothing. Further this gem totaly invalidates the poll considering its an unknown based off of your hopes.




I already stated I would resign him if we could do it for cheap and fill other needs. I know you created this thread to try and prove something to me and for that I am honored but it fails for this reason:




^^That was posted before this lame thread was created.

Click to expand...

Wait wait wait-a-minute :no:

At first you were talking about his skills...

TR1LL10N said:

There I said it! Crucify me if you wish but I simply don't like his game at 35 years of age. He does not facilitate the offense competently, pulls up for too many bad shots and seems to be turning the ball over at an alarming rate. This guy is a champion and future Hall of Famer but to me it looks like one of two things:

Click to expand...

Then it was his age (which you were off by a year)

TR1LL10N said:

1. He has lost his game at the age of 35.

Click to expand...

and although you sounded reactionary (and hypocritical),
you took it here with speculation (as you love to point out)...

TR1LL10N said:

2. His heart is not in it for NYC and he is already looking for the nearest exit back to his hometown for a front office job.

Click to expand...

then this... you contradict yourself on so many levels (because you were emotional following a bad outing)

TR1LL10N said:

Either way, our offense looks stagnant and Amare has been less effective due to the lack of orchestration coming from the PG position. People thought STAT needed Nash and Felton proved otherwise but STAT does need a pass first PG who is going to allow Amare to finish or give him the ball in his sweet spots.

Click to expand...

and finally the icing...

TR1LL10N said:

Billiups will hopefully turn it on in the playoffs and may even win a game or two for us in the post season but as of now Billiups has been a big disappointment and the biggest reason we are struggling.

Click to expand...

One or two games? Hello! :smash:

So you tried to qualify your emo rant with nonsense- and continue to do so for pages with spin technology?

Ladies and gentlemen... LETS END THIS NOW.

we'll have to make a distinction between the casual fan, and the knowledgeable ones.

nyk_nyk said:

So far 6 to 2 in favor of Billups.

:gony:

Click to expand...

if there is a mid level exception.. id keep billups.. if not and there is a increase cap (hard) then id let him go....

I think a realistic outcome if we're gonna pursue the buyout & re-sign route is Billups getting at least a 3 year $30M type offer after a buyout. That would reduce his cap hit on the payroll by $4M for next season which might open up enough space to sign a legitimate C, which is our biggest need. That would be the biggest benefit of working a deal with Billups like this. The Knicks would benefit in a big way if you look at it in those terms.

But there also needs to be some kind of incentive overall gain for Billups to agree to a buyout & re-sign with this team. If the net gain for him is only 2 extra years at around a midlevel type salary for the '12 & '13 seasons, then he really stands to gain nothing out of the deal, so we need to go higher than that to get him to play ball IMO.

Red said:

Wait wait wait-a-minute :no:

At first you were talking about his skills...



Then it was his age (which you were off by a year)




and although you sounded reactionary (and hypocritical),
you took it here with speculation (as you love to point out)...



then this... you contradict yourself on so many levels (because you were emotional following a bad outing)



and finally the icing...



One or two games? Hello! :smash:

So you tried to qualify your emo rant with nonsense- and continue to do so for pages with spin technology?

Ladies and gentlemen... LETS END THIS NOW.

we'll have to make a distinction between the casual fan, and the knowledgeable ones.

Click to expand...

You're a tool trying to play a game of gotcha instead of actually debating me on the merits of the topic. Failing by the way. How about you spend your limited intellect and energy on the topic rather than going to extreme lenghts to attack the messenger?

None of those statements contradict each other and fall in line with an overall critique of Billups. So yes, I have issues with:

His current skill level at his age and the obvious decline since his prime
I questioned his desire to be in NYC and still do
I questioned his style with regards to maximizing Amare and still do
I question his worth at 14mil a year and still do


Whats funny is that you quote multiple things from the same post and try to make them seem like I am changing or contradicting myself as if the only way to lay out an indictment were to state every issue in one long run on sentence. :thumbsup:

P.S. Oh and I stand by my pragmatic approach that the Knicks have more needs than just a pass first PG so if we can have Billups for cheap and use the saved money to fill other needs such as a rebounding/defending center than I am fine with Billups being a stopgap at 2-3 mil a year until we can find a replacement.

TR1LL10N said:

You're a tool trying to play a game of gotcha instead of actually debating me on the merits of the topic. Failing by the way. How about you spend your limited intellect and energy on the topic rather than going to extreme lenghts to attack the messenger?

None of those statements contradict each other and fall in line with an overall critique of Billups. So yes, I have issues with:

His current skill level at his age and the obvious decline since his prime
I questioned his desire to be in NYC and still do
I questioned his style with regards to maximizing Amare and still do
I question his worth at 14mil a year and still do


Whats funny is that you quote multiple things from the same post and try to make them seem like I am changing or contradicting myself as if the only way to lay out an indictment were to state every issue in one long run on sentence. :thumbsup:

P.S. Oh and I stand by my pragmatic approach that the Knicks have more needs than just a pass first PG so if we can have Billups for cheap and use the saved money to fill other needs such as a rebounding/defending center than I am fine with Billups being a stopgap at 2-3 mil a year until we can find a replacement.

Click to expand...

You can't fool me. I know its frustrating, but you should be use to superior intellectuals pointing out your short-comings by now.

We know you have trouble admitting when you're wrong. We also know its easier and masculine to be able to do so instead of backtracking and spinning. No matter how much you argue or prove me right about you, no matter how many quotes and pages you write instead of considering your limited basketball knowledge...

your reputation as an argumentative nerd is solidified. You've been made to look foolish for pages and still can't accept that.

A wise man (Red- yes I'm referring to myself in the 3rd person) once told you to chill because you look foolish, and you did exactly what you do that has led many to have little respect for your bb knowledge...

Kept on being a clueless nerd with a need for validation on a forum.smh

As I said, I've already exposed you and your female tendancies as an arguer. What's funny is you're so enamored and insistant on arguing (not debating or discussing) you didn't even realize when some posters actually agreeing with you- you idiot.

You were so hell-bent on being an argumentative female, it went right over your head when no one disagreed with you.

Check your chromosomes, consider you may be a hermaphrodite, idk, but please stop the girly nerd sh*t. If you're a man, act like one and admit everything isn't win or lose, and in this case you can admit you were wrong.

Red said:

You can't fool me. I know its frustrating, but you should be use to superior intellectuals pointing out your short-comings by now.

We know you have trouble admitting when you're wrong. We also know its easier and masculine to be able to do so instead of backtracking and spinning. No matter how much you argue or prove me right about you, no matter how many quotes and pages you write instead of considering your limited basketball knowledge...

your reputation as an argumentative nerd is solidified. You've been made to look foolish for pages and still can't accept that.

A wise man (Red- yes I'm referring to myself in the 3rd person) once told you to chill because you look foolish, and you did exactly what you do that has led many to have little respect for your bb knowledge...

Kept on being a clueless nerd with a need for validation on a forum.smh

As I said, I've already exposed you and your female tendancies as an arguer. What's funny is you're so enamored and insistant on arguing (not debating or discussing) you didn't even realize when some posters actually agreeing with you- you idiot.

You were so hell-bent on being an argumentative female, it went right over your head when no one disagreed with you.

Check your chromosomes, consider you may be a hermaphrodite, idk, but please stop the girly nerd sh*t. If you're a man, act like one and admit everything isn't win or lose, and in this case you can admit you were wrong.

Click to expand...

So a whole long post about me and not the topic...:thumbsup: I'm not surprised since it's clear you are obsessed with me.

If I am wrong you should have no problem quoting me and actually providing a rebuttal. Sadly, you have yet to do so and would rather chop up one post into multiple quotes and try to paint them as contradictory simply by asserting it. Well I assert you have a bleeding vagina. Does that make it fact?

I find it funny that you have the gaul to call anyone argumentative when you have created one emotional thread after another often about the same topic. I create one thread giving my opinion and you straight lose it! Pages of rants and distortions and when thats not enough to quell your raging emotional fire you go and create a completely new thread on the same subject! A thread dedicated and inspired by me, a thread designed to get my attention. A thread designed to draw me into another one of your emo driven non-sequitur pseudo debates that revolve more around me then the actual topic. You are a silly transparent red nosed clown who is still trying to settle the score months later. :barf:

I know you feel you have a battery in your back because my opinion on Billups is in the minority. That is fine, continue to beat your drum my pink bunny and take solace in the warmth of the majority opinion. I will continue to be the KO nerd who brings facts, well thought out points and stats to the debate and you can continue to be an emotion driven female with hot flashes because of too much estrogen.

If you actually care to discuss the topic I will be glad to debate you. If any of these points are wrong prove it:

His current skill level at his age and the obvious decline since his prime
I questioned his desire to be in NYC and still do
I questioned his style with regards to maximizing Amare and still do
I question his worth at 14mil a year and still do

Red,

I don't think Trill has limited basketball knowledge. All of us can get it wrong every now and again..

That said, Trill, you almost roasted yourself w this Billups madness. Almost.

I think deep down you know you were mistaken in your assessment of him by:

1. Saying he's basically washed up at 34.

Many players still play at a very high level at that age. And, it's clear he was injured @ the time you created your thread about him.

& 2. By saying his hearts not in it.

Billups then came out a couple days later saying he'd like to say in NY ,lol. He's also a truely classy, professional that will give his all no matter what team he plays for, unless he's precluded from giving 100% due to something like an INJURY..

I think you'll continue to be proved wrong about the above as we get into the playoffs and Billups shows what heroic performer he can be.

Once the playoffs come around... Billups is a problem..

ronoranina said:

Red,

I don't think Trill has limited basketball knowledge. All of us can get it wrong every now and again..

That said, Trill, you almost roasted yourself w this Billups madness. Almost.

I think deep down you know you were mistaken in your assessment of him by:

1. Saying he's basically washed up at 34.

Many players still play at a very high level at that age. And, it's clear he was injured @ the time you created your thread about him.

& 2. By saying his hearts not in it.

Billups then came out a couple days later saying he'd like to say in NY ,lol. He's also a truely classy, professional that will give his all no matter what team he plays for, unless he's precluded from giving 100% due to something like an INJURY..

I think you'll continue to be proved wrong about the above as we get into the playoffs and Billups shows what heroic performer he can be.

Once the playoffs come around... Billups is a problem..

Click to expand...

Meh. You agree with my MAIN criticism about his style of play and almost every one agrees he is not worth 14 mil a year. Most people value him at around 2-3 mil which is fine. At this point in his career he is a 2-3mil dollar caliber player.

BTW, lets look at this part of my original post on this subject:

Billiups will hopefully turn it on in the playoffs and may even win a game or two for us in the post season

Click to expand...

^^So again, another point we agree on.

I think my opinion while in the minority is not unreasonable. It is not based on my gut, emotion or personality and has always been based on production and style of play.

P.S. Billups did indeed state he wants to play in NYC but that was after being traded and after clearly being on record stating more than once that he wanted to stay in Denver. Only players that are headcases ever overtly say something negative about their current team especially when just joining it. Further, Billups is due 14mil next year, do you think he wants to lose 12 of that for the sake of venting his feelings? Of course not!

P.P.S. This is always about what to do moving forward because we are in a post season push after the trade deadline. Hence why I hope and acknowledged he can prove valuable in the post season. Again, its what to do moving forward.

P.P.P.S. I also knew when writing my original post that I would be in the minority hence why I sated at the beginning about crucifying me. I don't expect everyone to agree with me and I am happy to debate the subject. Sadly some would rather attack, distort and troll rather than debate. (not you)

This shit is like watching a action movie.:shooter:

Trillion: :director:
Everyone else: :boohoo:
(Red, nyk_nyk, etc.): :fazer::bang::machinegunTr1ll1on)

(Red, nyk_nyk, etc.): :winner:

platnumn: :wtf:

Ok back to work, that was ****ing pointless. As is all this Billups crap

Time waits for no man. I hope he can perform this year and I think he will but long term we need to look elsewhere despite how much I like Mr Bigshot.

WrongIslander said:

Time waits for no man. I hope he can perform this year and I think he will but long term we need to look elsewhere despite how much I like Mr Bigshot.

Click to expand...

This poll is only talking about 1 or 2 more years at the most. Nothing said about long term.

I think this thread served its purpose. As many of us have stated before, no one thinks Billups is worth the 14 mil option he has for next season, so that issue should have been put away loooooong ago.

The next and most important thing was Billups talent level and his ability to lead this team at the PG position. Trill came with all these reasons why Billups wasn't the right fit for this team and whenever he met opposition would reference age, desire and even his skill! The majority of people disagreed but he kept on trying to prove why he was right even while Billups was proving that he could still play at a high level.

People constantly pointed out to Trill that he wasn't 100% during his subpar games and you igonored it. Billups then turned it up when he was healthy and you still found reasons to keep doubting him. You should have conceded long ago but instead you panic and prefer to tell people how they aren't debating you properly or some other crap.

Bottom line Trill: The poll results show what the general concensus is so leave it alone and move on.

nyk_nyk said:

This poll is only talking about 1 or 2 more years at the most. Nothing said about long term.

Click to expand...

Yeah but if you have the chance to replace him now then you do in my opinion but only with the right man.

platnumn said:

This shit is like watching a action movie.:shooter:

Trillion: :director:
Everyone else: :boohoo:
(Red, nyk_nyk, etc.): :fazer::bang::machinegunTr1ll1on)

(Red, nyk_nyk, etc.): :winner:

platnumn: :wtf:

Ok back to work, that was ****ing pointless. As is all this Billups crap

Click to expand...

I know, it is pretty silly but some people just don't know when to concede even if the majority says otherwise. It would be nice to know your views on Billups though since your here.

WrongIslander said:

Yeah but if you have the chance to replace him now then you do in my opinion but only with the right man.

Click to expand...

I hear you but your not answering the poll question. Simply, is he good enough for this team at most for 1 or 2 more years?

nyk_nyk said:

I hear you but your not answering the poll question. Simply, is he good enough for this team at most for 1 or 2 more years?

Click to expand...

My answer is he's as good as our options. If we can improve we should.

nyk_nyk said:

I think this thread served its purpose. As many of us have stated before, no one thinks Billups is worth the 14 mil option he has for next season, so that issue should have been put away loooooong ago.

The next and most important thing was Billups talent level and his ability to lead this team at the PG position. Trill came with all these reasons why Billups wasn't the right fit for this team and whenever he met opposition would reference age, desire and even his skill! The majority of people disagreed but he kept on trying to prove why he was right even while Billups was proving that he could still play at a high level.

People constantly pointed out to you that he wasn't 100% during his subpar games and you igonored it. Billups then turned it up when he was healthy and you still found reasons to keep doubting him. You should have conceded long ago but instead you panic and prefer to tell people how they aren't debating you properly or some other crap.

Bottom line Trill: The poll results show what the general concensus is so leave it alone and move on.

Click to expand...

Can't help but to say my name. Are you really that mad?



Guess what. I voted yes too so what exactly did you prove? That under a hypothetical ideal scenario we would take Billups? Okay...

I have made my case more than once and you have yet to actually address my points directly in a meaningful way. You can continue to state I'm wrong but stating something and proving it are two very different things. You are also free to disagree with my conclusions and I was the first to acknowledge I was in the minority but I did give my reasons for my assertions. Sadly instead of debating me you got buthurt because I questioned your IQ and since then have been hellbent on evening the score at the expense of the debate. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, I did even say:

My bad on being harsh but as you like to say...REAL TALK.

Click to expand...

Meh. I guess I should take it as a compliment that I garner so much attention that people need to create whole threads to get my attention and reference me by name more than once including their OP.

nyk_nyk said:

I know, it is pretty silly but some people just don't know when to concede even if the majority says otherwise. It would be nice to know your views on Billups though since your here.

Click to expand...

Being in the majority does not equal being right. At one point the majority of Americans thought black people were inferior. Were they right? At one point in a majority thought the world was flat. Were they right?

Sometimes it takes guts to stake out a minority opinion ahead of the masses and stick to it even when attacked. I emphasize the word attack because had you and some others actually debated instead of distorting my position this could have stayed civil. Further, I can concede points and admit I was wrong evidenced by my retraction regarding Billups never being a good defender. Rono used his brain, stuck to the topic and provided evidence to directly counter my point. That is how you debate and I respect Rono for that.

TR1LL10N said:

Can't help but to say my name. Are you really that mad?



Guess what. I voted yes too so what exactly did you prove? That under a hypothetical ideal scenario we would take Billups? Okay...

I have made my case more than once and you have yet to actually address my points directly in a meaningful way. You can continue to state I'm wrong but stating something and proving it are two very different things. You are also free to disagree with my conclusions and I was the first to acknowledge I was in the minority but I did give my reasons for my assertions. Sadly instead of debating me you got buthurt because I questioned your IQ and since then have been hellbent on evening the score at the expense of the debate. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, I did even say:



Meh. I guess I should take it as a compliment that I garner so much attention that people need to create whole threads to get my attention and reference me by name more than once including their OP.

Click to expand...

You vote yes (which i think is BS), but you've spent post after post explaining why Billups isn't the right PG for this team. Yeah... this is the knockout puch that's got you all dazed now.

nyk_nyk said:

You vote yes (which i think is BS), but you've spent post after post explaining why Billups isn't the right PG for this team. Yeah... this is the knockout puch that's got you all dazed now.

Click to expand...

Man you're dense...

Billups is not the right style for this team but as I mentioned more than once I can take a PRAGMATIC approach since there are several things this team needs. I stated:

Fair points and at 2-3 mil a year I have no problems with Billups. My issue is what we do moving forward. I would take Billups running the point another year or so at 2-3 mil if the saved money allowed us to fill other needs. A pass first PG is certainly not our only need. I just hope Amare doesn't suffer from Billups score first mentality.

Click to expand...

^^That's called pragmatism dude. It's accepting less than my perceived ideal scenario in return to filling other needs. Damn dude, what is wrong with you?

prag?mat?ic/pragˈmatik/Adjective
1. Dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations

Click to expand...

P.S. That's right, I have spent post after post defending my position. I wish you had spent post after post explaining your stance instead of attacking me, simply stating I'm wrong or diverting the subject to the coach.