No joke: D'Antoni has Knicks thinking D

NY17

Benchwarmer
Exactly. AR looks to be a solid find but that still doesn't change the fact that AR was nothing more than a project player with no NBA experience.

Your correct about Turiaf... He gets as many minutes as his body can handle. Turiaf is a player that had a couple of open-heart surgeries since being drafted into the league. Cant count Curry either... He's a bum.

Mozgov
Amare
Turiaf
JJ
Shelden
Shawne (Not really a BIG)

MDA has pretty much played every BIG he's had a chance to.

It's funny how people judge this defense as if MDA is working with "the final roster" or "finished product" when it's more than obvious we're still in rebuilding mode. Maybe these people have no idea that TD23w (2nd year player) is the longest tenured Knick. So much for "team chemistry". He's an EXCELLENT head coach. Formed a winner with ONLY 1 proven player; Amare.

Once again: MDA has played 6 different players @ the Center position this year (most in the league). PROOF that he's unhappy with the 5 hole & a FA Center is on it's way.

That's interesting that we've played 6 at center for the most in the league, what source are you basing that off of?
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Exactly. AR looks to be a solid find but that still doesn't change the fact that AR was nothing more than a project player with no NBA experience.

Your correct about Turiaf... He gets as many minutes as his body can handle. Turiaf is a player that had a couple of open-heart surgeries since being drafted into the league. Cant count Curry either... He's a bum.

Mozgov
Amare
Turiaf
JJ
Shelden
Shawne (Not really a BIG)

MDA has pretty much played every BIG he's had a chance to.

It's funny how people judge this defense as if MDA is working with "the final roster" or "finished product" when it's more than obvious we're still in rebuilding mode. Maybe these people have no idea that TD23w (2nd year player) is the longest tenured Knick. So much for "team chemistry". He's an EXCELLENT head coach. Formed a winner with ONLY 1 proven player; Amare.

Once again: MDA has played 6 different players @ the Center position this year (most in the league). PROOF that he's unhappy with the 5 hole & a FA Center is on it's way.

More to the point about AR being a project. The Timberwolves have the "luxury" of playing AR because they are not in contention for the playoffs. They can allow him to go out and stink it up 80% of the time so that he can learn with real game time experience, the Knicks could not. The Knicks are a .500 team with very little margin for error who only just last game clinched a spot. Further, had AR shown some ability in practice he would have earned playing time just like Shawne Williams, Sheldon Williams and others did.

So yes, AR has a ton of potential and now has the playing time and leeway to hopefully capitalize and achieve that potential.

P.S. What's with all this Corey Brewer hype? The guy is playing 7 MPG for a lotto bound team...
 

Red

TYPE-A
More to the point about AR being a project. The Timberwolves have the "luxury" of playing AR because they are not in contention for the playoffs. They can allow him to go out and stink it up 80% of the time so that he can learn with real game time experience, the Knicks could not. The Knicks are a .500 team with very little margin for error who only just last game clinched a spot. Further, had AR shown some ability in practice he would have earned playing time just like Shawne Williams, Sheldon Williams and others did.

So yes, AR has a ton of potential and now has the playing time and leeway to hopefully capitalize and achieve that potential.

P.S. What's with all this Corey Brewer hype? The guy is playing 7 MPG for a lotto bound team...

I wouldn't call trading a 1st round pick a "luxury" at all.

AR showing (or not) "ability" at practice is speculative at best, yet continues to serve as a weak explaination for a lack of patience and recognition of talent and a teams needs.

Brewer is another example and microcosm of how an offensive approach can cost you valuable assets. Bigs (their lack of use, production, and demand) are a sympton as <poor> stats are a byproduct of de-emphasizing defense.

A more concentrated defensive approach would of led to better results. No speculaton in that.
 

moneyg

Starter
So it is about the roster...Earl Barron? What a weak answer that exposed the flaw in your statement. Further, talking about Brewer who is not a "BIG" is more evidence that our ROSTER lacks credible BIGS.

Turiaf gets as much playing time as his body allows and D'ant plays him every chance he gets. Sheldon needed to earn his time and has done so.

Again, what BIGS on our ROSTER would you have D'ant play that he doesn't?


im confused.. would shelden williams plauy center better than jj or shawne...it has more to do with misuse of players... i gave you too bigs.. one we would of had.. and one will still have... sheldan wasnt played because he was a zero on offense.. but so is JJ...

defense is not only bigs... ok... brewer would of been our best perimeter defender.. yes or no?.. u keep sayin big and we need a center.. when he never plays those type of bigs....

he prefer a shootin center like a barganin versus a bruiser like perkins....if he had his wish.. he forced into playin turiaf...but he would prefer to give him backup minutes.. when its clear that turiaf play helps us control the tempo...


just curious.. over the last 3 years.. who has he played at center???? that was actually a real center???.. turiaf is techincally a backup PF....im sure jerome jordan can contribute more than Jared
 
Yeah, & AR has had some really good games, but he's also had some horrid one's & was even benched one night. Just look @ his last 4 games. Ghost town numbers & really bad play. Not something the Knicks could deal with during a playoff run, especially considering the fact that AR looked like a lost rookie during the preseason. On a side note: MDA wasn't the only big-name, good coach who let AR sit & learn from the bench.

It's also funny when people sit here & bash MDA for not playing Darko. Thats a joke. The Serbian Darko is one of the biggest NBA bust's of All-Time; just ask the Detroit Pistons or better yet LeBron James & Carmelo Anthony. You know... The two players that many of NBA experts had Darko going over during mock draft after mock draft. Most had LeBron going #1 but still though... Huge bust. Thats like blaming Tanny & Rex for cutting Gholston who had 0 sacks in 3 years. You cant blame Rex if Gholston puts up 4 sacks next year because it'll take more than just 1 or 2 seasons to erase that.
 

moneyg

Starter
More to the point about AR being a project. The Timberwolves have the "luxury" of playing AR because they are not in contention for the playoffs. They can allow him to go out and stink it up 80% of the time so that he can learn with real game time experience, the Knicks could not. The Knicks are a .500 team with very little margin for error who only just last game clinched a spot. Further, had AR shown some ability in practice he would have earned playing time just like Shawne Williams, Sheldon Williams and others did.

So yes, AR has a ton of potential and now has the playing time and leeway to hopefully capitalize and achieve that potential.

P.S. What's with all this Corey Brewer hype? The guy is playing 7 MPG for a lotto bound team...


shelden william only played because turiaf went down.. SMH.. he didnt play him because he wasnt familiar with the offensive play book...lol
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
I wouldn't call trading a 1st round pick a "luxury" at all.

AR showing (or not) "ability" at practice is speculative at best, yet continues to serve as a weak explaination for a lack of patience and recognition of talent and a teams needs.

Brewer is another example and microcosm of how an offensive approach can cost you valuable assets. Bigs (their lack of use, production, and demand) are a sympton as <poor> stats are a byproduct of de-emphasizing defense.

A more concentrated defensive approach would of led to better results. No speculaton in that.

Corey Brewer 7 MPG...7 MINUTES PER GAME ON A LOTTO BOUND TEAM...nuff said.

AR had just as much an opportunity as any other player on the Knicks to crack the rotation. Had MDA stubbornly stuck with the same rotation all year you might say it's speculative but he FACTUALLY gave opportunities to multiple players.

BTW, Minnesota has the best rebounder in the game and two "defensive" players you pine for yet are DEAD LAST IN POINTS ALLOWED.
 
Last edited:
Brewer is a dime a dozen player. Stop acting like he's some type of Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier or better yet... Scottie Pippen type of lock down peremeter defender.

No way in hell would Brewer have been our best perimeter defender. Not even close to being better than Carmelo. When Carmelo is focused (which he always is come playoff time) he's a top 5 defensive SF. It won't take long before Fields is just as good, if not better than Brewer on the perimeter.

Stop talking about these two guys MDA didn't play while refusing to give him credit for the one's he has. No coach in the NBA has played + started as many players as MDA has over the past 3 years.

If Brewe is so great on defense... He should be getting alot more than 7 mins per game lol. He's a dime a dozen player. Nothing to write home about. The Knicks have a plan & a bright future under MDA & no name UNPROVEN projects like Darko, Brewer & AR aren't a part of it. Big deal. Guys like Felton, Chandler, Gallo, Fields, TD23, Amare & Melo were or are.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
im confused.. would shelden williams plauy center better than jj or shawne...it has more to do with misuse of players... i gave you too bigs.. one we would of had.. and one will still have... sheldan wasnt played because he was a zero on offense.. but so is JJ...]

Sheldon Williams was an unproven non-rotation player who had to EARN minutes. He has now EARNED minutes is playing in our ROTATION. What is confusing?

Yes, you gave 2 bigs. Earl Barron who is not on our ROSTER therefore countering your own initial attack on people who talk about the roster and Turiaf who gets as much playing time as his body dictates. MDA does not hesitate to play Turiaf when healthy.

You make the point about Sheldon and then counter it with the very real fact that MDA played JJ solely for for defense.

defense is not only bigs... ok... brewer would of been our best perimeter defender.. yes or no?.. u keep sayin big and we need a center.. when he never plays those type of bigs....

You are changing the subject. It is you who bolded the MDA quote and extrapolated an attack regarding size so stick to your own point or concede it was easily debunked and now you need to broaden the debate to salvage it.

Brewer may have been our best perimeter defender(TD could have held that) if allowed the time at the expense of other players and the production of said player on both ends of the court. FYI, Brewer is averaging 7MPG on a lotto bound team who is dead last points allowed. Ask yourself why if he is so good and NBA ready that both Minnesota and Dallas found no use as of yet for him...

he prefer a shootin center like a barganin versus a bruiser like perkins....if he had his wish.. he forced into playin turiaf...but he would prefer to give him backup minutes.. when its clear that turiaf play helps us control the tempo...

I disagree and think MDA is smart enough (this article being further evidence) to know that with our current ROSTER we do not need an offensive center but rather a defender/rebounder. If you and I know it certainly a professional NBA head coach with a winning record and pedigree knows it...

just curious.. over the last 3 years.. who has he played at center???? that was actually a real center???.. turiaf is techincally a backup PF....im sure jerome jordan can contribute more than Jared

2 of those 3 years were rebuilding and Darko was never in our long term plans. He did play Barron last year. As to this year, MDA started the season with the ONLY other true center on the roster, Mozgov. Further Mozgov was our starting center when he was RELUCTANTLY traded for Melo.

BTW, you have no idea what Jerome Jordan can contribute and to pretend like you do or that MDA would willfully leave a better player in Europe rather than utilize him is nonsense.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
shelden william only played because turiaf went down.. SMH.. he didnt play him because he wasnt familiar with the offensive play book...lol

A non point. There were plenty of opportunities along the year for AR to crack the rotation but he didn't. Turiaf has "gone down" multiple times this year. Further Sheldon is getting additional playing time over JJ too who is healthy and able to play.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Brewer is a dime a dozen player. Stop acting like he's some type of Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier or better yet... Scottie Pippen type of lock down peremeter defender.

No way in hell would Brewer have been our best perimeter defender. Not even close to being better than Carmelo. When Carmelo is focused (which he always is come playoff time) he's a top 5 defensive SF. It won't take long before Fields is just as good, if not better than Brewer on the perimeter.

Stop talking about these two guys MDA didn't play while refusing to give him credit for the one's he has. No coach in the NBA has played + started as many players as MDA has over the past 3 years.

If Brewe is so great on defense... He should be getting alot more than 7 mins per game lol. He's a dime a dozen player. Nothing to write home about. The Knicks have a plan & a bright future under MDA & no name UNPROVEN projects like Darko, Brewer & AR aren't a part of it. Big deal. Guys like Felton, Chandler, Gallo, Fields, TD23, Amare & Melo were or are.

You know whats funny too. These guys pine for ex-Knicks Darko, Brewer and AR yet Minnesota has all 3 and is 30th in points allowed! Thats in addition to having the best rebounder in the league to limit second chances!
 

moneyg

Starter
You know whats funny too. These guys pine for ex-Knicks Darko, Brewer and AR yet Minnesota has all 3 and is 30th in points allowed! Thats in addition to having the best rebounder in the league to limit second chances!


and look at their coach...lol.. however.. darko would help our need at center...
 
MDA has played & started more players than any other coach in the league over the last 3 years. Aging players = gone. Horrible players = gone. Non-team players = gone. He's building an up & coming contender. 4 of his guys landed us a Superstar & Billups.

Marbury (ball-hog) gone.
Nate (wasn't a team player). Gone.
Duhon (horrible bust from duke). Gone.
TD23 (Promising talent). Still here.
Billups (Aging player). Still productive.
Carter (Aging player). Trade throw-In.
Felton (Career year under MDA)
T-Mac (Aging player). Gone.
Fields (Great rookie). Still here.
Gallo (Developed by MDA). Traded.
Chandler (Career year under MDA) Traded.
Walker (Promising talent). Still here.
Shawne (Hopeful talent). Still here.
Melo (Superstar). Still here.
David Lee (Couldn't afford). Gone.
Amare (Developed under MDA). Still here.
JJ (We needed help) Still here.
Shelden (needed help) Now playing.
Curry (Horrible bust) now gone.
Mozgov (Rookie) was traded.

Funny how they harp all over MDA for the 2 players he didn't play lol.
 

moneyg

Starter
Sheldon Williams was an unproven non-rotation player who had to EARN minutes. He has now EARNED minutes is playing in our ROTATION. What is confusing?

Yes, you gave 2 bigs. Earl Barron who is not on our ROSTER therefore countering your own initial attack on people who talk about the roster and Turiaf who gets as much playing time as his body dictates. MDA does not hesitate to play Turiaf when healthy.

You make the point about Sheldon and then counter it with the very real fact that MDA played JJ solely for for defense.



You are changing the subject. It is you who bolded the MDA quote and extrapolated an attack regarding size so stick to your own point or concede it was easily debunked and now you need to broaden the debate to salvage it.

Brewer may have been our best perimeter defender(TD could have held that) if allowed the time at the expense of other players and the production of said player on both ends of the court. FYI, Brewer is averaging 7MPG on a lotto bound team who is dead last points allowed. Ask yourself why if he is so good and NBA ready that both Minnesota and Dallas found no use as of yet for him...



I disagree and think MDA is smart enough (this article being further evidence) to know that with our current ROSTER we do not need an offensive center but rather a defender/rebounder. If you and I know it certainly a professional NBA head coach with a winning record and pedigree knows it...



2 of those 3 years were rebuilding and Darko was never in our long term plans. He did play Barron last year. As to this year, MDA started the season with the ONLY other true center on the roster, Mozgov. Further Mozgov was our starting center when he was RELUCTANTLY traded for Melo.

BTW, you have no idea what Jerome Jordan can contribute and to pretend like you do or that MDA would willfully leave a better player in Europe rather than utilize him is nonsense.

hilarious.... size is determine by position.. for instance TD is an undersized 2.. jefferies is a 3.. he not even an undersized 4.. he a 3.. and our coach is playin him at center....just like when he playe chandler at the 4.. or gallo at the 4.. these guys are not playing their correct postion.. get it... they are undersize for their position..

why not play 3 guards a PF and a center if you want to go small ball??? like detroit did.. but you need a legit 5.. get it.. a banger...im sure there a few in the d league..

dont mind him playin JJ as a backup.. not at the 5..
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
hilarious.... size is determine by position.. for instance TD is an undersized 2.. jefferies is a 3.. he not even an undersized 4.. he a 3.. and our coach is playin him at center....just like when he playe chandler at the 4.. or gallo at the 4.. these guys are not playing their correct postion.. get it... they are undersize for their position..

why not play 3 guards a PF and a center if you want to go small ball??? like detroit did.. but you need a legit 5.. get it.. a banger...im sure there a few in the d league..

dont mind him playin JJ as a backup.. not at the 5..

Nice to distort one of my many points. If you are going to quote and distort me you might as well distort my entire post...

Those players played out of position because of our ROSTER guy. I have been making this point for months! MDA tried going traditional with:

C-Mozgov
PF-Amare
SF- Gallo (oversized SF)
SG- Fields (oversized SG who is really a SF)
PG- Felton

6th man- Chandler

^^That is traditional and MDA's FIRST OPTION. He only went to a "small ball" lineup when it was clear Mozgov was not ready and only after we started the season horribly.

Further, we are now going with a traditional lineup:

C-Turiaf when healthy who happens to be our best big or Sheldon/JJ our only two other bigs
PF-Amare
SF-Melo
SG-Fields
PG-Billups

He then rotates in multiple players and PLAYS THE BEST PLAYERS POSSIBLE on our ROSTER.

P.S. Shawne Williams played brilliantly against Dwight Howard with the help of a great team defensive scheme.

P.P.S. If MDA had a legit center that was NBA ready he would play him. This all comes down to our roster and the hard choices MDA must make.

The only thing hilarious is you ever changing points that morph around the dead ends I expose.
 

MusketeerX

Rotation player
What "big" players would you have D'ant play that he currently doesn't?

Remember those guys we had before that never got playing time? Mozgov and Randolph?

MDA has shown a definite change in style after the trade. Good for him. Good for us.

If he doesn't hold his players accountable for lazy effort and doesn't come up with better defensive schemes when the playoff comes along, it's not going to be pretty... and he will lose his job.
 
Great post about the lineups TR1LL.

I have a feeling we go after DeAndre Jordan guns blazing. Just like MDA has always loved Amare as his PF; He'll LOVE DeAndre Jordan as his ATHLETIC Center.

One thing the NBA has yet to see MDA have? Two ATHLETIC big's who can BOTH run the floor out of the C & PF position's. DeAndre Jordan is a match made in heaven for not only MDA, but for our team. Jordan can run, he can full lanes, he can block & contest shots. He's able to score & most importantly? This kid can board on the glass. Trust me, I know, I try & watch this kid every chance I get thanks to the NBA league pass. The kid puts up rebound numbers & competes with his own teammate Blake Griffin who's a high flying rebounding machine. I've seen Jordan & Blake compete for a rebound against EACHOTHER! It's almost like they have a bet who can board the most per game. If DeAndre can put up numbers with the Clippers... He'll put up 12-15 rebounds per in NY. Amare is not Blake & Blake steals a good 3-6 per from Jordan.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Remember those guys we had before that never got playing time? Mozgov and Randolph?

MDA has shown a definite change in style after the trade. Good for him. Good for us.

If he doesn't hold his players accountable for lazy effort and doesn't come up with better defensive schemes when the playoff comes along, it's not going to be pretty... and he will lose his job.

I already addressed both in multiple threads and multiple times in this thread. To say he did not give Mozgov minutes is to ignore reality. To say he did not prefer to have Mozgov as the starting center is to ignore reality. Meh...
 
Only a clueless fan would EXPECT an NBA coach to start a Russian project from day one, a Russian project who's only a rookie; One who has NEVER played American ball before.

Start that type of ROOKIE from day one in a playoff race? Are you kidding me?

Some of these guys who make those types of remarks have no idea what it means to develope a young kid from the bench, let alone a Euro-Rook. Sad. Mozgov was trash to begin with as a starter. Rookie only averaged 2 points & 3 boards per game before getting traded. Even JJ's more productive.

MDA played Mozgov once he thought Mozgov was ready to fill in for Turiaf. It's as simple as that.

Fields has started EVERY GAME since game #2. MDA knew which rookie to start from day one. The more polished, more productive & the more developed rookie of the two. He goes by the name of Landy Fields. MDA knowns "ready talent" when he spots it. Thats why he's an NBA head coach making 6M per; while you watch the games from your living room BELIEVING "you can do oh so better"
 

NY17

Benchwarmer
Great post about the lineups TR1LL.

I have a feeling we go after DeAndre Jordan guns blazing. Just like MDA has always loved Amare as his PF; He'll LOVE DeAndre Jordan as his ATHLETIC Center.

One thing the NBA has yet to see MDA have? Two ATHLETIC big's who can BOTH run the floor out of the C & PF position's. DeAndre Jordan is a match made in heaven for not only MDA, but for our team. Jordan can run, he can full lanes, he can block & contest shots. He's able to score & most importantly? This kid can board on the glass. Trust me, I know, I try & watch this kid every chance I get thanks to the NBA league pass. The kid puts up rebound numbers & competes with his own teammate Blake Griffin who's a high flying rebounding machine. I've seen Jordan & Blake compete for a rebound against EACHOTHER! It's almost like they have a bet who can board the most per game. If DeAndre can put up numbers with the Clippers... He'll put up 12-15 rebounds per in NY. Amare is not Blake & Blake steals a good 3-6 per from Jordan.

You honestly believe Jordan would average 12-15 rebounds per game in New York?.....
 
Top