Woodson's Accountability

Kiyaman

Legend
Whew we .. 8 straight losses, a 1-6 record at home, and a 3-12 record at the start of the 2013-14 season.
Do I have to mention our 2013-14 salary cap too.

Herb Williams .. it took a decade but u finally got ur chance to be the Knicks HC for 60 something games in a season.
Melo ur chances to win the scoring title this season is gone once Herb takes over.
Herb Williams like his 15 yrs with the Knicks ..................
 

petescud

Starter
what are you saying, Herb has been given the team? Herb is even worse

When when the last time a Knick asst became a head coach (aside from Woodson)....shows another reason why Woodson has no help
 
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groundpilot

Benchwarmer
Wow, that video was painfull to watch.
Herb Williams is horrible. He is a company man, thats the only reason he is always there.
He has to go along with the entire coaching staff.
 

Weissenberg

Grid or Riot
what are you saying, Herb has been given the team? Herb is even worse

When when the last time a Knick asst became a head coach (aside from Woodson)....shows another reason why Woodson has no help
IMO Herb defintely smells something in the air... he's changed his image recently, started being more active on the bench, you can say he knows this might be his chance.
 

Paul1355

All Star
I agree...Woodson is not the same coach he was when he started. When he started here he was tough nosed and didnt give a crap and then the longer he was coaching he started to develop favorites and stop holding guys accountable. Jr, Shumpert, Amare and Felton do the stupidest things on the court and still play over other guys. He does not hold these players accountable anymore
 

bigapple

Starter
Well not exaclty Woodson problem is that he doesnt have proper roster

JR -Mess
Felton - pathetic
STAT-Awfull all time when he will commit travel he is screaming come on

STFU and leave this team 12 years pick and roll his game is so predictable even smaller players are blocking him

Rotations by Woodson is also horrible he is still keeping on floor complete unproductive roster

i dont get it why he is not giving more time MWP Udrih Prigion and JR
why he is so insain on Felton who is ending each game with 3-5 To's and JR which scoring % is under 30%


and read this

Enough is too much: Do something!!!


Everything that we built up until this point has failed us. Firing Grunwald and Chris Smith making the team was the straw that broke the camels back. It didn't help that Felton, Melo, Shump, Metta and whoever had a mic in their face all seemed to think they were going to start the season and just win because they did that last season. The sheer arrogance of these guys was led by a coach that to this day is saying he is still trying to figure out this roster. Who is to blame? The only answer to this question is EVERYBODY!!!
Only 4 players showed up in shape and ready to play on day one. The first I'll mention is Tim Hardaway Jr. The kid broke his shooting hand in summer league and still showed up to training camp ready to steal someone's job. Aside from typical rookie mistakes, the kid has been fantastic. Another guy that I have bashed hardcore in previous blogs, Tyson Chandler, showed up in phenomenal shape. He admitted Roy Hibbert embarrassed him and it drove him to improve his body physically. To my surprise the dude brought a nice looking jumpshot and hook in the lane! That's all I asked of the guy and he finally brought that to the table. For that he has my respect. He had a freak leg injury this year so that's unfortunate. If he can come back and build upon his early success that would be great. The other two players are Carmelo Anthony and Pablo Prigioni. Priggy was picking guys up full court during preseason so he was ready. Sad he's too damn old now and just refuses to look at the rim sometimes. Melo is currently leading the league in minutes and is killing himself trying to do everything. Call him selfish if you want to be cool, but he is playing extremely hard right now. So the problem lies between the eyes of every other player that had put on a knicks uniform this year. What is the problem? That right now simply does not matter. What does matter is what management is prepared to do about it.
First of all, Woodson and his entire coaching staff needs to be fired. There is no excuse to be unprepared like this. The team doesn't run any plays and they are putting everything on Melo. We aren't the best team but we should not be 3-12 right now. That is bull**** my friends. The blame is not all on coaching. The knicks need a point guard. Nothing to debate. Felton needs to go. He's not a champion so I don't understand the respect he's getting from this coaching staff. Beno needs to be let go as well. It's a shame the knicks tricked him into taking a pay cut only not to play him. If we can get a second round pick for Beno, trade him to a contender. I would target Isaiah Thomas immediately. He's averaging 18pts per game off the bench. Sacramento made a major move for their future by starting Ben Mclemore and trading for Derrick Williams. They made a commitment to Grievas at point guard. Isaiah Thomas is available to be had right now! We simply can't wait to get a kid that young and talented. The kid can get in the paint at will and score. He can shoot the lights out as well. He's had his best game's this season playing against Chris Paul. Youtube it if you don't believe me.
Amare Stoudamire wants to dunk the ball and go to the hall of fame. That's all he cares about. The knicks need to Marbury this guy once and for all and look to trade him for the best deal that benefits our team. That's it. Be done with it. We are playing ourselves babying this man. He doesn't rebound or play defense. Be done with this guy. Move on and get the ball rolling with Jeremy Tyler. If someone is going to make rookie mistakes let it be a rookie. The word is Jeremy is healthy and playing unrestricted right now. Get him in uniform asap!
By the time Tyson comes back, the knicks should have Tyler in the mix, Isaiah Thomas as the starting point, Jr Smith starting with Toure "Baby Clyde" Murry and Hardaway Jr off the bench. Bargnani is not as soft as we thought. He should be the starting 4 with Melo and Tyson. Lets get this going immediately. I understand it takes two to tango so teams have to want to trade with us. That's not my problem. Management needs to get their **** together. Excuse my language kids but this is where we are. Hire Lionel Hollins as coach and lets get it popping right now. This team is not dead yet, but the bleeding can't stop until they pull out the blade. Go Knicks!!!
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Knicks management (Mills) shouldve been in discussion with Lionel Hollins, after the Nov. 20th loss to Pacers in the Garden that made us 1-6 at home.

With Grunwald being demoted, who selected Chris Smith as the 15th man on the roster? Woodson
We dont have any elite PG, we do have 3 average PG that does exactly what HC Woodson tells them to do,
which is "give the ball to Melo, everytime Melo ask for it".

Our 3-12 start has been showing Knicks Fans just how much Woodson, Melo, JR, and Felton, added to the 54 win season.

Melo's been averaging "40 minutes per game (26 pts, 10 rb, 2 ast, 1 stl.), thats better than lastseason
Felton been averaging "35 minute per game, (15 PTS, 3 rb, 5 ast, 1 stl.), little under lastseason.
JR career has been so inconsistent his performance is expected.

Super Star Melo gets to touch the ball on practically all our offensive-possessions.
Kenny Smith stated, "with all the touches Melo get in a game, he should average 6 assist per game".
Which should explain why we have no teamball, and why Knicks teammates stand around when Melo got the ball.
 

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Think about it like this.

Pringles is currently running out THIS roster for the Lakers and they're 9-8.

PG: Steve Blake
SG: Jodie Meeks
SF: Wesley Johnson
PF: Jordan Hill
C: Pau Gasol

And they're 9-8. We have Carmelo ****ing Anthony, arguably the best scorer in the league, and we're 3-12?
 

groundpilot

Benchwarmer
Think about it like this.

Pringles is currently running out THIS roster for the Lakers and they're 9-8.

PG: Steve Blake
SG: Jodie Meeks
SF: Wesley Johnson
PF: Jordan Hill
C: Pau Gasol

And they're 9-8. We have Carmelo ****ing Anthony, arguably the best scorer in the league, and we're 3-12?

Carmelo ****ing Antony is not arguably the best scorer. K.D. is. Melo is taking so many shots to score his points, that he forgets about his teammates. 0 assists. Thats why nobody is happy, and again, i blame Woodson for this BS.
I am rooting for Pelicans today. Maybe that retard Dolan will fire him after 9 straight losses.
Go Pelicans.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Carmelo ****ing Antony is not arguably the best scorer. K.D. is. Melo is taking so many shots to score his points, that he forgets about his teammates. 0 assists. Thats why nobody is happy, and again, i blame Woodson for this BS.
I am rooting for Pelicans today. Maybe that retard Dolan will fire him after 9 straight losses.
Go Pelicans.


Hold on, Mike Woodson is still the coach
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
Carmelo ****ing Antony is not arguably the best scorer. K.D. is. Melo is taking so many shots to score his points, that he forgets about his teammates. 0 assists. Thats why nobody is happy, and again, i blame Woodson for this BS.
I am rooting for Pelicans today. Maybe that retard Dolan will fire him after 9 straight losses.
Go Pelicans.

Melo has the strength to score down low. Once KD develops that (if he ever does) then he'll be the best scorer in the league.

KD gets to the rim on drives into the paint, and uses his size and length to score or get to the line. Melo can take it off the dribble, or put his back to someone, move them, and make an attempt at the rim.

So arguably Melo is a better scorer because he has more tools to work with. Is your argument that KD is a better scorer, because he gets to the line more, a valid one? Absolutely. That's why it's all arguable.

By the way, Hahn and Wally talked about Melo not "selling the foul" (flopping) enough when he's fouled, so his FTAs are not nearly where they could be. Rose had a similar problem a few years ago, and made a comment about getting beat up in the lane, and having to flop to get more calls. If Melo threw his head back, threw his arms up, and get knocked off balance, and have his equilibrium completely ****ed up, on every instance of contact, his points and FG% would increase a bit (from the increase in free throw attempts).

See LeBron from years 1-4 who powered thru contact, and just kept playing vs LeBron years 5--now who looks like he's been hit with a sledge hammer anytime contact is made.


<--------------------- Back on Topic --------------------------->

Woodson needs to go ASAP, and the Knicks need to capitalize on Bargs playing well, and package him in a deal..I seriously don't want to see this, but since he cost us a first round pick, and he's playing pretty solid ball, he's become one of our biggest assets...if not the only asset.

It's time to start treating this as a lost season, and looking to see what can be done to make our pitch for Melo staying, a compelling one. Bargs would be a good piece -- but alone, he's not enough.
 

groundpilot

Benchwarmer
Hey, nuckles, i am surprized that you want Melo to stay. I used to be his fan, but after watching him play here in new york, i am convinced that he is too selfish, does not or does not want to understand the team concept, not at all team oriented player, who dosnt make players around him better, just opposite.
As i look at the current situation in the team, nobody is happy to play with him, STAT voiced his opinion, i know he is irrelevant now, but he was right about lack of ball movement. It was a straight shot at Melo, and i think he was reflecting the mood of the whole team. Tyson said the same thing last year, expressed his frastration about running the floor, to only wach MELO and JR (Melo requested to bring him here btw) dribbling and shooting like their teammates dont exist.
If you give him the max contract, and build the team around him, to satisfy his style of play, dont you think its too risky?
I would trade him, while he is still highly regarded in this league for an elite point guard and go from there.
 
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metrocard

Legend
maybe Woodson should try Kidd's trick?

1467301_563218000413618_748191943_n.jpg
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
Hey, nuckles, i am surprized that you want Melo to stay. I used to be his fan, but after watching him play here in new york, i am convinced that he is too selfish, does not or does not want to understand the team concept, not at all team oriented player, who dosnt make players around him better, just opposite.
As i look at the current situation in the team, nobody is happy to play with him, STAT voiced his opinion, i know he is irrelevant now, but he was right about lack of ball movement. It was a straight shot at Melo, and i think he was reflecting the mood of the whole team. Tyson said the same thing last year, expressed his frastration about running the floor, to only wach MELO and JR (Melo requested to bring him here btw) dribbling and shooting like their teammates dont exist.
If you give him the max contract, and build the team around him, to satisfy his style of play, dont you think its too risky?
I would trade him, while he is still highly regarded in this league for an elite point guard and go from there.

Please identify the team concept for me. The Knicks have been playing like a team with no identity all season.

They're playing for a head coach who turned Joe Johnson from Phoenix, into ISO-Joe in Atlanta. I've watched Woodson's offensive "scheme" be "give the ball to the best, highest paid player, when he wants it, and play off of him."

No one really has a role when the ball crosses half court, that's why we ROUTINELY see the PG dribble the clock down to like 11 secs, then one pass and a shot attempt. Our PnRs go no where, our PG rarely ever makes the "hockey assist" where he's orchestrating the offense and is seeing a play developing.

JR is playing like trash lately, but instead of his minutes getting cut back just a tad, to try to get more production elsewhere -- while still giving JR enough of a chance to play his way out of it... what do we see? JR gets a plethora of minutes that he doesn't need or utilize. That's Melo's fault? If you say so.

Melo's faults this year are his brain-farts on defense, and his poor 3-PT %. Other than that, he is the team's concept. Especially with this coach.

If you see something different can you please enlighten us all as to what is is.

Do so without bringing up asinine points like "STAT voiced his opinion." I couldn't give less of a **** what the opinion is of some dude who's being paid over $20M dollars to go out there and play well once out of every 5 or 6 games, turn the ball over like it's a part of his job description, and then whine about the ball not moving when he gets it on the lower wing and his options seem to be: turnover, or shot attempt.

I want Melo to stay and org. build something around him. But to be honest, if I were him, I'd be outta here. The owner is stupid, the front office is full of idiots and yes-men, and the fans.... lol.
 
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skisloper

Starter
Please identify the team concept for me. The Knicks have been playing like a team with no identity all season.

They're playing for a head coach who turned Joe Johnson from Phoenix, into ISO-Joe in Atlanta. I've watched Woodson's offensive "scheme" be "give the ball to the best, highest paid player, when he wants it, and play off of him."

No one really has a role when the ball crosses half court, that's why we ROUTINELY see the PG dribble the clock down to like 11 secs, then one pass and a shot attempt. Our PnRs go no where, our PG rarely ever makes the "hockey assist" where he's orchestrating the offense and is seeing a play developing.

JR is playing like trash lately, but instead of his minutes getting cut back just a tad, to try to get more production elsewhere -- while still giving JR enough of a chance to play his way out of it... what do we see? JR gets a plethora of minutes that he doesn't need to utilize. That's Melo's fault? If you say so.

Melo's faults this year are his brain-farts on defense, and his poor 3-PT %. Other than that, he is the team's concept. Especially with this coach.

If you see something different can you please enlighten us all as to what is is.

Do so without bringing up asinine points like "STAT voiced his opinion." I couldn't give less of a **** what the opinion is of some dude who's being paid over $20M dollars to go out there and play well once out of every 5 or 6 games, turn the ball over like it's a part of his job description, and then whine about the ball not moving when he gets it on the lower wing and his options seem to be: turnover, or shot attempt.

I want Melo to stay and org. build something around him. But to be honest, if I were him, I'd be outta here. The front owner is stupid, the front office is full of idiots and yes-men, and the fans.... lol.


I would not called Melo's defensive mistakes " Brain Farts " that insinuates that this is a random........I think its clear Melo as a defensive player is weak and picks and chooses when he will step up.......If you are a max contract guy that a team will build around then you should not have defensive lapses. Defense is 50% of the game and lapses are not accepted.

As for JR I said it and will say it again the we should have never signed him.........But with that said JR''s play is on Woodson. I mean how do you increase a players minutes when he is awful and take it away from other players like Metta, Shumpert and Prigs..................Woodson makes zero sense.........He whines about Defense but plays JR more then any other player in the 2nd half and talk about a horrible defensive player JR fits the build........Why would Shump sit the entire $t
4th quarter after having his best game in a while.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
I would not called Melo's defensive mistakes " Brain Farts " that insinuates that this is a random........I think its clear Melo as a defensive player is weak and picks and chooses when he will step up.......If you are a max contract guy that a team will build around then you should not have defensive lapses. Defense is 50% of the game and lapses are not accepted.

As for JR I said it and will say it again the we should have never signed him.........But with that said JR''s play is on Woodson. I mean how do you increase a players minutes when he is awful and take it away from other players like Metta, Shumpert and Prigs..................Woodson makes zero sense.........He whines about Defense but plays JR more then any other player in the 2nd half and talk about a horrible defensive player JR fits the build........Why would Shump sit the entire $t
4th quarter after having his best game in a while.

Yea, I agree. Melo's defense needs to exist more, and be more consistent. I called them "brain-farts" this year, cause in years past we would see him make absurd fouls on jump shooters, which meant the effort was there but the focus wasn't. Reel that in a little, and he'd be serviceable. But now it's just breakdowns, missed assignments, and not helping when he needs to help.

You could also raise the question: what if so much wasn't required of him in Woodson's "hero ball" offense. Not making an excuse, but like I said several times, Woody's offense is give the ball to the best player, ISO him on the wing, and play off of him. I think if the ball moved in an actual scheme and the majority of Melo's shots didn't always come off of his being 1-on-2, or 1-on-3, he might have more energy to expend on defense.

Remember in D,Antoni's system where the majority of the sets were the high PnR between the 1 and 5, that's when we saw Melo try more on defense, just not in a very intelligent way. With the ball swinging round the perimeter early last year, Melo was a man on a mission on defense. Blocks at the rim, great rotations, diving into the stands for loose balls, etc. Once the 3s stopped falling, and it was time for Woody's "hero/Iso ball" again, the D wore down again.

Just an observation. Maybe other folks see it differently, but either way.. I'd rather it if Melo were a two-way player. But he is what he is, and we have him on the team. I'd rather keep that kind of talent, than lose it with no guarantee of being able to replace it (especially with our draft pick situation.)


The Woody and Felton and JR situation is just uncomfortable. It's almost as if they have some dirt on him or something. It makes absolutely no sense.

<-------------------------- EDIT --------------------------->

Just looked it up, and Melo is playing 40.4 mins per game this year.

LBJ is playing 35.5 mpg

Paul George is playing 36.2 mpg

PG is averaging 23 points on 47% shooting with 3.4 assists and 6.1 rebounds. 17.9 field goal attempts per game.

Melo is averaging 26 points on 42% shooting with 2.5 assists and 9.9 rebounds. 22.2 field goal attempts per game.

Melo's minutes and field goal attempts can EASILY be regulated with a more comprehensive coach, and plan.
 
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skisloper

Starter
Yea, I agree. Melo's defense needs to exist more, and be more consistent. I called them "brain-farts" this year, cause in years past we would see him make absurd fouls on jump shooters, which meant the effort was there but the focus wasn't. Reel that in a little, and he'd be serviceable. But now it's just breakdowns, missed assignments, and not helping when he needs to help.

You could also raise the question: what if so much wasn't required of him in Woodson's "hero ball" offense. Not making an excuse, but like I said several times, Woody's offense is give the ball to the best player, ISO him on the wing, and play off of him. I think if the ball moved in an actual scheme and the majority of Melo's shots didn't always come off of his being 1-on-2, or 1-on-3, he might have more energy to expend on defense.

Remember in D,Antoni's system where the majority of the sets were the high PnR between the 1 and 5, that's when we saw Melo try more on defense, just not in a very intelligent way. With the ball swinging round the perimeter early last year, Melo was a man on a mission on defense. Blocks at the rim, great rotations, diving into the stands for loose balls, etc. Once the 3s stopped falling, and it was time for Woody's "hero/Iso ball" again, the D wore down again.

Just an observation. Maybe other folks see it differently, but either way.. I'd rather it if Melo were a two-way player. But he is what he is, and we have him on the team. I'd rather keep that kind of talent, than lose it with no guarantee of being able to replace it (especially with our draft pick situation.)


The Woody and Felton and JR situation is just uncomfortable. It's almost as if they have some dirt on him or something. It makes absolutely no sense.

<-------------------------- EDIT --------------------------->

Just looked it up, and Melo is playing 40.4 mins per game this year.

LBJ is playing 35.5 mpg

Paul George is playing 36.2 mpg

PG is averaging 23 points on 47% shooting with 3.4 assists and 6.1 rebounds. 17.9 field goal attempts per game.

Melo is averaging 26 points on 42% shooting with 2.5 assists and 9.9 rebounds. 22.2 field goal attempts per game.

Melo's minutes and field goal attempts can EASILY be regulated with a more comprehensive coach, and plan.


In the End Woody will always elect ISO Melo or Jump shooting JR so then based on your points Melo will never be a defender on this Knicks team with Woody coaching.......Especially in the 4th quarter when no matter what is going on or who is hot Woody elects to go ISO and Melo demands the ball......

If I hear Woody again that he chooses his line up based on what the other coach puts out there I will puke....I mean how about Woody has a bit of confidence and maybe just maybe the opposing coach adjusts for us....Can you imagine the other teams locker room before a Knicks game......We are so predictable is laughable......

What Woody has done is now create an unhappy locker room and I am sure certain players have lost respect for him........

A non-rested JR is not better then a well rested Shump.
A hobbling Felton in the 4th is not better then a rested defending Pablo
An exhausted Melo is much better with a 2 minute rest with Metta,,,,

I mean Woodson is just a MORON.
 

clumsy

Rotation player
I think Woodson needs to go just based on his undying loyalty to JR Smith...

JR Smith is one of the worst players in the nba right now and he's logging 30 mins a game.. 33% FG, 29.6% from 3 and a PER of 9.25. Some of the grossest stats i've ever seen from a pro basketball player.
 
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