Who would you rather have?

Who would you rather have?

  • CP3

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • D12

    Votes: 12 85.7%
  • D-Will

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • Total voters
    14

knickscity

Benchwarmer
Why would anyone turn down a 3 time defensive player of the year in a league that's short of centres?
The same way "how can anyone turn down the pg who compliments two of the league's best scorers?

Chris Paul is the most complete PG in the NBA, no different than Howard is the best defensive Center.

CP3 makes scrubs look superb, and has had to do that his whole career so far.

Dwight anchors a defense that to take that lightly, but their are lots of centers who do that as well and can be had for far cheaper.

But to truly build around Stat, Melo, and the "role players" the first priority to me would be that floor general.

I'm not knocking anyone for choosing Dwight, and if we were to have him I'd actually try to trade Amar'e for him, and still get CP3.

***Yes I'm cold like that***

To me, the successful teams have that penetrating pg who can break down any defense...and serviceable bigs who hold the post.

I'm not opposed to Dwight at all, just isn't my choice, and the main reason why..... his duty on this team can be filled by a collective group of bigs for far less, like the majority of good teams have done.
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
The same way "how can anyone turn down the pg who compliments two of the league's best scorers?

Chris Paul is the most complete PG in the NBA, no different than Howard is the best defensive Center.

CP3 makes scrubs look superb, and has had to do that his whole career so far.

Dwight anchors a defense that to take that lightly, but their are lots of centers who do that as well and can be had for far cheaper.

But to truly build around Stat, Melo, and the "role players" the first priority to me would be that floor general.

I'm not knocking anyone for choosing Dwight, and if we were to have him I'd actually try to trade Amar'e for him, and still get CP3.

***Yes I'm cold like that***

To me, the successful teams have that penetrating pg who can break down any defense...and serviceable bigs who hold the post.

I'm not opposed to Dwight at all, just isn't my choice, and the main reason why..... his duty on this team can be filled by a collective group of bigs for far less, like the majority of good teams have done.
Other than the 90s Bulls, who had Jordan and Pippen, it hasn't happened, how do you expect us to get enough defense with Chris Paul? Our two superstars as it is hasn't brought much defense.

Unless we get someone such as Dalembert or Kaman, Turiaf is as good as it gets at center if not Dwight Howard. There's a reason why good centers are said to be rare today. Collective big men isn't gonna cut it. If you find me another Turiaf who's healthy and both will be on the Knicks then you might have something.

I know you said you'd be fine with Howard. I'm not ignoring that. I also realize last season the flow of offense wasn't great. First, if we have D'Antoni still, our team chemistry will probably be better on offense. If we don't improve, get a new coach. Someone such as Rick Adelman plus a defensive assistant. No reason we can't be an offensive firepower with STAT and Melo as our only superstars.

D'Antoni's offensive coaching is overhyped like D'Antoni overhyped Gallinari's shooting (at least Gallinari is a good basketball player, I don't know if D'Antoni is even a decent coach).

Fisher isn't great at penetration and he won some rings. If we add Howard and re-sign Billups we can record high isos per game and we'd still be a monster.
 
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Sage

Rotation player
The same way "how can anyone turn down the pg who compliments two of the league's best scorers?

Chris Paul is the most complete PG in the NBA, no different than Howard is the best defensive Center.

CP3 makes scrubs look superb, and has had to do that his whole career so far.

Dwight anchors a defense that to take that lightly, but their are lots of centers who do that as well and can be had for far cheaper.

But to truly build around Stat, Melo, and the "role players" the first priority to me would be that floor general.

I'm not knocking anyone for choosing Dwight, and if we were to have him I'd actually try to trade Amar'e for him, and still get CP3.

***Yes I'm cold like that***

To me, the successful teams have that penetrating pg who can break down any defense...and serviceable bigs who hold the post.

I'm not opposed to Dwight at all, just isn't my choice, and the main reason why..... his duty on this team can be filled by a collective group of bigs for far less, like the majority of good teams have done.

I completely get what you're saying, but in regards to the question being "who would you rather have", which I've interpreted as "what one of these players would most improve the team", I look at it from the point of view of:

- STAT and Melo aren't the most defensive minded players in the NBA, so having the 3 and 4 positions defending poorly could be helped by a very defensive 5.

- Dwight Howard is a defensive player of the year (3x defending, no pun intended).

- Out of our 2 existing superstars, one likes to iso and the other likes mid range J's and driving, is a superstar PG really necessary to facilitate that?

- By the end of last year we had zero (0, none, ziltch) 7 footers on the playing roster, and it killed us.

Again, just my opinion of why I'd choose the best centre in the league over anyone. We all know D'Antoni likes playing small ball so this would probably never happen anyway.
 

knickscity

Benchwarmer
Other than the 90s Bulls, who had Jordan and Pippen, it hasn't happened, how do you expect us to get enough defense with Chris Paul? Our two superstars as it is hasn't brought much defense.

You do realize that Jordan and Pip were good defenders, and always had a defensive minded pg?

With our guys we need our 1, 2, and 5 spot to be defensive minded.

Howard is defensive minded, but also is offensive minded which would actually be a no-no.

Our Center(s) have to be defensive first with good hands on offense, and there are plenty who can do it for 20-30 minutes a night.

CP3 is one of the best defensive PG's in the league, as far as forcing turnovers and steals.

RunningJumper said:
Unless we get someone such as Dalembert or Kaman, Turiaf is as good as it gets at center if not Dwight Howard. There's a reason why good centers are said to be rare today. Collective big men isn't gonna cut it. If you find me another Turiaf who's healthy and both will be on the Knicks then you might have something.

I don't consider Turiaf to be a good center, but he is adequate.

Give me another 2 or three guys who can bring his energy on a 20+ minute basis.

If we can just limit a opponents offensive rebounds, and get a few ourselves, which really was our true problem last season, that alone would improve our allowed ppg.

Guys like Reggie Evans, Dally, or Chuck Hayes would be ideal in a one year deal along with Turiaf, and Jorts if he can crack the rotation.

I truly feel from watching teams of today that a "center by committee" can be just as successful as having one dominant one, especially when you already have two major offensive weapons.

RunningJumper said:
I know you said you'd be fine with Howard. I'm not ignoring that. I also realize looking at last season that the flow of offense wasn't great. First, if we have D'Antoni still, our team chemistry will probably be better on offense. If we don't improve, get a new coach. Someone such as Rick Adelman pus a defensive assistant.

Adelman emphasizes both sides of the court, he'd be my choice.

But with D'antoni, he needs a floor general who can spread floor by making open shots, and quick easy buckets.

His offense lives and dies by it.

That's why he was so successful with Nash, and when Felton started to get in a groove the team rang up wins.

Chauncey is NOT his type of PG, and Dwight is not his type of center.

But I don't see D'antoni being here past this season anyway, and like I've said I'm not opposed to Dwight, just not my first choice.


RunningJumper said:
D'Antoni offensive coaching is overhyped like D'Antoni overhyped Gallinari's shooting (at least Gallinari is a good basketball player, I don't know if D'Antoni is even a decent coach).

D'antoni is better than decent, come on now.

I hate his sub patterns and quirky rotations, but the guy can bring out the offense in almost anyone.

I don't want him because of his blatant disregard and stubborness for defense.
 

knickscity

Benchwarmer
Good points, and they are well taken.

I completely get what you're saying, but in regards to the question being "who would you rather have", which I've interpreted as "what one of these players would most improve the team", I look at it from the point of view of:

- STAT and Melo aren't the most defensive minded players in the NBA, so having the 3 and 4 positions defending poorly could be helped by a very defensive 5.

- Dwight Howard is a defensive player of the year (3x defending, no pun intended).

- Out of our 2 existing superstars, one likes to iso and the other likes mid range J's and driving, is a superstar PG really necessary to facilitate that?

- By the end of last year we had zero (0, none, ziltch) 7 footers on the playing roster, and it killed us.

Again, just my opinion of why I'd choose the best centre in the league over anyone. We all know D'Antoni likes playing small ball so this would probably never happen anyway.

Yes I do think an elite pg would be needed to facilitate for Amar'e and Melo.

I don't Ramon Sessions could do it full-time...as an example.

We didn't have any bigs at the end of the season, but we really didn't have any all season....Moz caught on in glimpses, for the most part.

Personally though I don't see D'antoni here much longer, so which ever direction we go would be moving forward with or without him.

I'm sure Grunwald isn't gonna pass on Dwight because of D'antoni, like Walsh did not signing Earl Barron.

He has already made it clear...all acquisitions will be based on defense.

Can't be mad at that.....
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
Yes, I do realize Jordan and Pippen had defense. That's why I brought it up. STAT and Melo need help. Chris Paul isn't defending big men.

We won't be able to afford Dalembert with Chris Paul, maybe not even Chuck Hayes. We might be able to get Reggie Evans, does that help enough to convince you Chris Paul is a better option?
 

knickscity

Benchwarmer
Yes, I do realize Jordan and Pippen had defense. That's why I brought it up. STAT and Melo need help. Chris Paul isn't defending big men.

We won't be able to afford Dalembert with Chris Paul, maybe not even Chuck Hayes. We might be able to get Reggie Evans, does that help enough to convince you Chris Paul is a better option?
If the Heat have been on Dally hunt for the whole season, I think we have a shot.

My point the rebounding, and post defense and Turiaf/Evans/Dally could hold that down.

But there are really alot of guys out there that can help solve that problem up front, even if Dally wasn't available.

Teams have shown "center by committee" works well in this game today.

But we also need elite playmaking, defense, and penetration in the back court too, and an average pg would not do it, and I don't see Billups past this season either.

If I had a perfect scenario......

I'd trade Amar'e for Dwight, and still sign CP3.
 

MeloforMayor

BALL DON'T LIE
If I had a perfect scenario......

I'd trade Amar'e for Dwight, and still sign CP3.

Interesting. But I'm not sure if I would trade STAT for D12. SUre, Dwight is better, but trading away the guy who brought us back to the playoffs? No way, Jose
 

knickscity

Benchwarmer
Interesting. But I'm not sure if I would trade STAT for D12. SUre, Dwight is better, but trading away the guy who brought us back to the playoffs? No way, Jose
I'm a fan of the team first and foremost.

I respect what Amar'e did in his first season, but it was just one season.

And let's not pretend that the Knicks would turn down any deal for Dwight.

But here is a question though......

Which would be closer to a ring?

Amar'e-Melo-Howard?

CP3-Melo-Howard?
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
I respect how knickscity feels about trading Amar'e for Howard. I wouldn't want it (if I was GM, I hate to say it, I would).

Let's not forget that Amar'e was only with us one season and Felton had a big part of out improvement too.

STAT symbolizes the beginning of our resurgence, I really would hate trading him.
 

MeloforMayor

BALL DON'T LIE
And majority of the votes goes to...........

dwight-howard-planking-3.jpg
 

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
I respect how knickscity feels about trading Amar'e for Howard. I wouldn't want it (if I was GM, I hate to say it, I would).

Let's not forget that Amar'e was only with us one season and Felton had a big part of out improvement too.

STAT symbolizes the beginning of our resurgence, I really would hate trading him.

Trading Amar'e would bring us to the all time low this organization has ever gotten to.

Let's not forget that if not for Amar'e we would be stuck paying David Lee 14 million dollars and:

Felton
Fields
Gallinari
Chandler
David Lee

would have been our starting rotation. I liked all of those guys but let's be real that's a 38 win team at best, that's not a championship squad (Melo's not signing the extension in NY if Amar'e doesn't come here).
 

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Bump.

I like D12 more than CP3. Always will.

But I'm starting to make more peace with the idea of picking up CP3.

CP3 averaged over 11 assists in the playoff series when his best targets were Carl Landry and Trevor Ariza. Ariza who was no more than a 6th man with the Lakers and Carl Landry who's a borderline starter on a lottery team...CP3 took this team and won two games against the Lakers.

With Carmelo and Amar'e to pass to, I think averaging 14 assists per game is something that is entirely within CP3's ability...CP3-Amar'e would be the best P&R duo of ALL TIME
 
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